jlr0042
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I have a Supernova 750w G2, of which I am trying to custom sleeve the cables. I have read that it is not a good idea to completely remove the capacitors connected to the cables. Is it a bad idea to move the capacitors to the middle of the cable so that I can sleeve around them, leaving the exposed capacitors behind the motherboard tray?
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Zuhl3156
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Re: Can I move the capacitors on PSU cable?
2016/08/12 05:53:30
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I don't see what it could hurt by moving them down the cable a bit. I'm a tad miffed that those Caps aren't inside the PSU where they belong. It does make for one ugly looking cable, doesn't it?
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EVGATech_ChrisB
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Re: Can I move the capacitors on PSU cable?
2016/08/12 11:17:29
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09973
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Re: Can I move the capacitors on PSU cable?
2016/08/13 01:10:05
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EVGATech_ChrisB
Hi jlr0042,
You may also consider obtaining the individually wrapped cables for the G2 unit as they will not have any capacitors on them?
http://www.evga.com/Products/Product.aspx?pn=100-CK-1300-B9
What are the negative effects on ripple suppression and/or any other negative impact removing those inline caps would have?
post edited by 09973 - 2016/08/13 01:13:27
As long as your popular enough, you can get away with anything.
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Dukman
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Re: Can I move the capacitors on PSU cable?
2016/08/13 15:26:45
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Microbell
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Re: Can I move the capacitors on PSU cable?
2016/08/14 00:50:57
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Cutting or removing those caps would increase ripple rate on the lines and generate more heat. The debate seams to be how much heat. You can move the caps up and down the line but it's suggested you don't totally remove them as they are there to keep the ripple within specs and removing them could push the unit out of spec. (too much out of spec=unstable PSU) I'll post a link if I can find it but during my research for this new PSU I read this on JonnyGuru's site somewhere and he mentioned it in a review I was looking at. Some high end PSU's don't require these caps as it's done internally on the board and if the PSU has extremely great ripple then the removal would likely not be noticeable. Not many test have been done with this but on average moving the caps up the line increase ripple by about 2mv. Totally removing them can be 6mv+ on ripple. Edit: Found that video I ran across. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUdou_OfVWA
post edited by Microbell - 2016/08/14 01:07:56
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Zuhl3156
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Re: Can I move the capacitors on PSU cable?
2016/08/14 03:37:53
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Microbell
Some high end PSU's don't require these caps as it's done internally on the board and if the PSU has extremely great ripple then the removal would likely not be noticeable.
I stated above about how I was miffed that these Caps weren't put inside the PSU where they belong. It's not like they take up a lot of room to begin with. Only EVGA techs would know, but maybe there are some inside the PSU and the ones on the cables are for extra ripple suppression? I know it does make for a really ugly cable and the replacement sleeved cables don't have them at all.
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Dukman
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Re: Can I move the capacitors on PSU cable?
2016/08/14 11:46:15
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Zuhl3156
I stated above about how I was miffed that these Caps weren't put inside the PSU where they belong. It's not like they take up a lot of room to begin with. Only EVGA techs would know, but maybe there are some inside the PSU and the ones on the cables are for extra ripple suppression? I know it does make for a really ugly cable and the replacement sleeved cables don't have them at all.
Then there is the fact that if you purchase the EVGA sleeved kits, they don't have the capacitors at all. That's why I wasn't overly concerned about removing the caps from my wires.
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Microbell
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Re: Can I move the capacitors on PSU cable?
2016/08/14 23:39:02
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Zuhl3156
Microbell
Some high end PSU's don't require these caps as it's done internally on the board and if the PSU has extremely great ripple then the removal would likely not be noticeable.
I stated above about how I was miffed that these Caps weren't put inside the PSU where they belong. It's not like they take up a lot of room to begin with. Only EVGA techs would know, but maybe there are some inside the PSU and the ones on the cables are for extra ripple suppression? I know it does make for a really ugly cable and the replacement sleeved cables don't have them at all.
Agreed. I just purchased the 650w G2 which should ship today sometime and it also has these caps on the cables. I took note of the review on JonnyGuru where he said Seasonic has these on the board which does away with them on the cables and has extremely nice ripple . Now I'm not sure about the 750w G2 ripple but I know the unit I purchased also has extremely great ripple so removing them would produce no noticeable issues. I think you would only have to worry about removing them if you bought a low quality unit that's barely in spec which these units are not (unless you have an issue) or your hardware is so sensitive to variations of the direct current which I know of none in a PC environment unless it's WAAAAAAAAYYYY out of spec.
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09973
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Re: Can I move the capacitors on PSU cable?
2016/08/15 00:15:53
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and this is why I quoted tech support Chris B in this thread to see if I could get an answer straight from tech support. Since they do sell the sleeved cables which obviously do not have caps. Mixed messages. but I need to plan out how I am going to sleeve my stuff and Id prefer to order this week if I need to do it myself to keep the caps. I thought about too hiding the included cable in the rear of my DG-87 and ordering an extension from someone with the colours I want for my theme which would avoid this problem entirely as I keep the caps and still get my sleeved colours
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Microbell
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Re: Can I move the capacitors on PSU cable?
2016/08/15 02:39:12
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This I did not know:
It's interesting that while I was digging around in Jonnyguru's site it seems according to him anyway this began with EVGA itself when it added them to the lines to produce a better ripple for marketing purpose's. Then the other manufactures followed suite trying to outdo the other for better ripples. Not sure if this was a EVGA/Super Flower adventure or not but they outsource a lot of the boards to Super Flower for the mains.
Not sure I like the "extension" idea as that would result in the same +mv by moving it up the chain but as I said in my last post I really don't think removing them totally will have any adverse effect on the unit as we are only talking about a few millivolts on PSU's that are well within specs and these are secondary filter capacitors anyway. Maybe wait for ChrisB or an engineer to chime in.
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09973
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Re: Can I move the capacitors on PSU cable?
2016/08/17 02:12:50
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Microbell
This I did not know:
It's interesting that while I was digging around in Jonnyguru's site it seems according to him anyway this began with EVGA itself when it added them to the lines to produce a better ripple for marketing purpose's. Then the other manufactures followed suite trying to outdo the other for better ripples. Not sure if this was a EVGA/Super Flower adventure or not but they outsource a lot of the boards to Super Flower for the mains.
Not sure I like the "extension" idea as that would result in the same +mv by moving it up the chain but as I said in my last post I really don't think removing them totally will have any adverse effect on the unit as we are only talking about a few millivolts on PSU's that are well within specs and these are secondary filter capacitors anyway. Maybe wait for ChrisB or an engineer to chime in.
Hopefully we do hear from someone from EVGA soon. Would help my decision a lot.
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09973
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Re: Can I move the capacitors on PSU cable?
2016/08/21 21:34:56
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I went to EVGA tech support, here is their response:
"Hello,
removing the caps could exacerbate instability if it was pre-existing however it would not effect the overall functionality of the unit. Please do take into consideration that removing the caps from the cables would void the cable warranty but not the power supply unit warranty."
As long as your popular enough, you can get away with anything.
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09973
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Re: Can I move the capacitors on PSU cable?
2016/08/21 21:36:50
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I went to EVGA tech support, here is there response:
"Hello,
removing the caps could exacerbate instability if it was pre-existing however it would not effect the overall functionality of the unit. Please do take into consideration that removing the caps from the cables would void the cable warranty but not the power supply unit warranty."
As long as your popular enough, you can get away with anything.
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MSim
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Re: Can I move the capacitors on PSU cable?
2016/08/22 12:48:39
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When review sites like jonnyguru test power supplies, do they use the factory cables at all or do they use test machine cables to hook it up.
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mike406
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Re: Can I move the capacitors on PSU cable?
2016/08/22 23:17:29
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I don't think that EVGA would sell the custom sleeved cables without caps if there were a risk of throwing ripple out of spec on any of their PSU's, although it certainly could increase ripple.
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Microbell
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Re: Can I move the capacitors on PSU cable?
2016/08/23 02:03:39
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09973
I went to EVGA tech support, here is there response:
"Hello,
removing the caps could exacerbate instability if it was pre-existing however it would not effect the overall functionality of the unit. Please do take into consideration that removing the caps from the cables would void the cable warranty but not the power supply unit warranty."
So it's still up in the air from an engineering standpoint. So removing the caps voids the warranty on the cables but not the PSU. Interesting. Tech support will not likely be able to answer this question technically as the PSU was likely designed and tested by Super Flower and they'll have the ripple curve specs with and without caps but I still don't foresee an issue removing them as these units have superior ripple to begin with. You could try to shoot off a email to Super Flower if your still concerned and see what they say but IMO it would be a nominal increase in ripple.
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mike406
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Re: Can I move the capacitors on PSU cable?
2016/08/23 02:27:54
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If removing the caps on cables "exacerbate instability" then should we take care in buying EVGA's official custom sleeved cables for worry of instability issues?
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Microbell
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Re: Can I move the capacitors on PSU cable?
2016/08/24 02:03:08
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mike406
If removing the caps on cables "exacerbate instability" then should we take care in buying EVGA's official custom sleeved cables for worry of instability issues? Mike, That's kind of a loaded question. It all depends on the specs and quality of the power supply being modded with the cables and how clean the ripple is to begin with. A good example would be one of the old Rosewill 400watt PSU that Newegg introduced way back when they started the line. The thing was such a nightmare providing power and a clean ripple (jumped +20mv-30mv on idle) that with a load it went wayyyyyy out of spec 40mv+ and introduced all kinds of issues. Now back then they didn't have the caps on the cables but if they did, with a ripple like that then it would be an issue removing them. With the newer PSU's most of it is handled on the main board and the caps on the cables are just secondary to try and get that "Perfect" ripple. So if you buy a quality PSU there should be no noticeable issues (including instability) when removing the caps from the cables. I think EVGA threw in that "exacerbate instability" as technically it can but the odds of that happening are very low.
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09973
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Re: Can I move the capacitors on PSU cable?
2016/09/05 23:54:04
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keyword with that instability statement was COULD exacerbate instability. Microbell's statement nailed the issue 100%. I am just going to throw an sleeved extension on that way I keep the caps, and get my colors I want. EVGA tech when I asked about said it would work as well as long as the wires size are same gauge or better.
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rlh19751
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Re: Can I move the capacitors on PSU cable?
2016/12/30 18:33:15
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I asked this question of evga too, as I just purchased a 850 g3 and wanted to use some custom cables. Here were my exact questions: - On your site you sell individually sleeved cables for the G3. Do these cables also have capacitors?
- Is it ok to use cables that do not have capacitors?
- If capacitors are required what capacitor is used?
This was their odd response: "Thank you for the email, the sleeved cables for the G3/G2/P2/T2 doesn't have the capacitor because they used a lower gauge wire and doesn't need the capacitors. 2nd question yes here are safe to used with capacitors on the sleeved cables. The standard cables why does it have the capacitors, because it's a different type of the gauge wires and it ensures they maintain their power ratings and filter out electric noise. Please if you have any further questions, feel free to contact us." It seems as though cables without caps are fine as long as the guage is under 16awg, which seems strange. The 3G psu come with 16awg on most of the cables and the sleeved cables that evga sells are 18awg. I'm not sure why a thicker cable would pick up so much more noise that it needs filter caps. The power bit sort of makes sense as a thicker cable has less resistance, so may be prone to more ripple, though I can't say that for sure. If anyone has any insight, I'd like to know more as I'd like to put in custom cables and adding caps does not seem like a big deal if there's real benefit to it.
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ty_ger07
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Re: Can I move the capacitors on PSU cable?
2016/12/31 18:21:33
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If anyone has any insight, I'd like to know more as I'd like to put in custom cables and adding caps does not seem like a big deal if there's real benefit to it.
If the 18 awg cables without capacitors are made of the same alloy and the same oxygen content with the same gauge of individual wire strands as the 16 awg cables, then the 16 awg cables don't need capacitors either. On the other hand, if the 16 awg cables are made of a different alloy or quality or are made with larger strands and less quantity of strands, then they are inferior. Having many small strands of wires is much better than fewer larger strands. Also, the quality of copper is important. Just because the 16 awg wires are larger in overall size doesn't necessarily mean that they are as good or better than the smaller 18 awg cables.
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rjhiles
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Re: Can I move the capacitors on PSU cable?
2017/11/10 19:59:21
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Here's a cool page on ripple and rectifiers:
I haven't gone through the whole thing but I'm sure it will shed at least a little light. It has inspired me to buy an oscilloscope!
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wmmills
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Re: Can I move the capacitors on PSU cable?
2017/11/10 23:19:56
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rlh19751
I asked this question of evga too, as I just purchased a 850 g3 and wanted to use some custom cables.
Here were my exact questions:
- On your site you sell individually sleeved cables for the G3. Do these cables also have capacitors?
- Is it ok to use cables that do not have capacitors?
- If capacitors are required what capacitor is used?
This was their odd response:
"Thank you for the email, the sleeved cables for the G3/G2/P2/T2 doesn't have the capacitor because they used a lower gauge wire and doesn't need the capacitors. 2nd question yes here are safe to used with capacitors on the sleeved cables. The standard cables why does it have the capacitors, because it's a different type of the gauge wires and it ensures they maintain their power ratings and filter out electric noise. Please if you have any further questions, feel free to contact us."
It seems as though cables without caps are fine as long as the guage is under 16awg, which seems strange. The 3G psu come with 16awg on most of the cables and the sleeved cables that evga sells are 18awg. I'm not sure why a thicker cable would pick up so much more noise that it needs filter caps. The power bit sort of makes sense as a thicker cable has less resistance, so may be prone to more ripple, though I can't say that for sure.
If anyone has any insight, I'd like to know more as I'd like to put in custom cables and adding caps does not seem like a big deal if there's real benefit to it.
Well, that's def a answer a company is going to give you. The real answer is because years ago when we started getting into much higher loads and carzy pc builds with sli/crossfire etc... manufacturers started making bigger units, they were having a hard time building units that could give us the power while being efficient and affordable, so quality was suffering. Independent guys like Jonnyguru would test them and show us whether they were really living up to there specs, many did not, so as a stop gap solution some companys would put caps on the wires as cheater way to pass testing on the units with full loads or a little over, especially when making them run in a hot box at there 50c rating etc... That solution thankfully didn't last too long and the units quality went up fairly quickly from just better builds and innovation. You can still do that today if you want to and im sure it would tighten up any units results but PSU's in general have come a long way and really shouldn't need them. Now, if the psu comes with that setup I def wouldn't use the unit without them cause it will not hold up to the specs that are advertised without them.
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