eduncan911
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UPDATE: Jump to the updated post for the completed TEC+H2C Hybrid assembly up and running. I just realized I have never posted my ModsRigs here in this forum after all these years (well, posted in the +1 thread recently). Frankly, it's been 6 years in the making, $10,000+ spent across 5 systems. Nothing was ever good enough and frankly I was embarrassed cause they all never performed quite the way I expected - until now. I introduce you to APOLLO V5. The beast of a machine that finally served up the performance, and no micro-stutter at 6000x1080 resolution, that dubs as my workstation. My main issue with these builds is I've had tri-1080p 120 Hz monitors since 2008 - this was back in the "400 series" days, which I upgraded from GTX 285s. Micro-stuttering, choppiness, and just no raw FPS performance had me happy enough. Across tri-470s on an X58, to numerous X58 and X79 PCIe 2.0 builds with 580s, 670s, 680s - nothing ever performed. Finally, I found the combination. No more $1200 water cooling setup. NVidia has inherit problems with 3-way SLI at super high resolution (micro-stutter), even at PCIe 3.0, etc. What resolved my issues were: - X79 resolved the PCH input lag issue at 6000x1080 that I had on the X58 platforms.
- PCIe 3.0 resolved the "choppiness" and random "jumping" I was experiencing.
- Asus RIVF/RIVE/RIVBE resolved the PCIe 3.0 issue (Asrock failed every test, multiple tri-way failures, etc).
- PCIe 3.0 "hacks" bypass Nvidia's internal testing during driver install to validate true PCIe 3.0 speeds on Ivy Bridge. This is where Asrock always failed, and Asus had PCIe 3.0 out of the box - dozens of builds btw!
It may not look like much, but... - Still in the Top 50 2-Way SLI on 3DMark's Firestrike (I was originally at #15 back in the day), and top 30 in Firestrike Extreme (last I checked).
- And yes, it is air-cooled (2-way ACX coolers were horrible, yanked them off quickly) on modified reference coolers and backplates.
- Huge overclock at 1226 Mhz (3DMark) and 1206 (BF4) all day long, with memory at 7,400 (3DMark) and 7000 (BF4). This equates to 110-140 FPS in BF4 with full Ultra 6000x1080 @ 2xMSAA.
I still haven't completed my custom TEC waterchiller project using the Dell OEM H2C system - been too busy with work. That will clean up things nicely whenever I get to it. 3D modeling is fun, but didn't like the casting tests I got for copper and silver. May have it milled next. So for now, a cheap H80 keeps the Ivy Bridge-E @ 4.7 tamed - bleh. Ignore the white wires - they are thermal probes for the RIVBE's remote monitor. ModsRigs link under avatar, and in sig. +1 please! Sorry that I didn't take pics of the modifications to the reference cooler and rear backplates (added additional heatsinks to both, increased thermal capacity). All in all, the temps are much much lower than stock, matching the ACX coolers' performance on a one-on-one basis. With two ACX coolers though, that was just too much heat being dumped into the chassis - even with 6000 RPM server-grade fans.
post edited by eduncan911 - Wednesday, April 15, 2015 8:40 PM
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Chaos_21
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Re: APOLLO V5 "Finally" - SLI Titans, 4930k @ 4.8 Ghz
Monday, June 16, 2014 9:41 PM
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Nice job...+1 (edit the pics..3 are upside down)
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eduncan911
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Re: APOLLO V5 "Finally" - SLI Titans, 4930k @ 4.8 Ghz
Monday, June 16, 2014 9:51 PM
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HAHA. ROFL. I needed a good laugh today. They aren't upside down... This is an BTX-Hybrid chassis - it mounts the CPU "lowest to the bottom for the coolest air" in the original "air tunnel" design Dell had. It's a "hybrid" because it isn't a true BTX chassis as BTX was a horrible failure. It mounts normal ATX components, specific only to the 730/730x series. Here's a few more pics, with carpet. You can read more about it on my wikipedia page (yep, I wrote the book on this chassis): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dell_XPS_730x I also host and run a wiki dedicated to this chassis: http://730x.org There are several key features of this chassis: - there are 5 separate Lighting "Zones" that you control RGB LEDs for any combination of 256 colors.
- The original H2C TEC watechiller can be modified to fix aftermarket boards (which I am doing).
- The silver/brushed aluminum versions have a clear-coating to protect its finish. Yes, I actually do "wax" it from time to time.
- Has 2 "server grade" high speed 6000 RPM 120mm fans.
All of the above can be "automated" to control the cooling by ramping up fans only under load/high temps. These are some of the custom hacks we do with the firmware of the daughter board. To give you an idea of the LEDs: (set to all white (255,255,255) in the top, Red (255,0,0) in the left and Green (0,255,0) in the right) You can do any combination you want, depending on your mood. Pissed off at work? You'll find my entire chassis bright RED. Hehe It also has really bright ones inside the chassis and in the rear, lighting up the PCI slots as well as the motherboard's I/O slots. Really REALLY bright at night.
post edited by eduncan911 - Monday, June 16, 2014 10:06 PM
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rjbarker
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Re: APOLLO V5 "Finally" - SLI Titans, 4930k @ 4.8 Ghz
Monday, June 16, 2014 10:22 PM
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^^^ I feel drunk n buggered up looking at those upside down pics....so how come you didnt get Water Blocks or did you...?...see you have the Cards torn apart.... You're 4930K is OC'd and running 4.8 Ghz with an H80i .....really? That is some chip, please post pics of load temps :) ....my 3930K at 4.9Ghz required 1.405v and with a 360 Rad (H 320 ) would reach low 80's....couldnt come close to this with an H100i.....
post edited by rjbarker - Monday, June 16, 2014 10:26 PM
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eduncan911
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Re: APOLLO V5 "Finally" - SLI Titans, 4930k @ 4.8 Ghz
Monday, June 16, 2014 11:06 PM
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rjbarker ^^^ I feel drunk n buggered up looking at those upside down pics....so how come you didnt get Water Blocks or did you...?...see you have the Cards torn apart....
Been there, done that $1,200 in watercooler parts for a previous rig, "breaking the loop" several times for RMAs, upgrades, etc: http://www.modsrigs.com/detail.aspx?BuildID=26285 Not to mention the $2,100 I dropped on those 580 HCs when they were "new." That was my 5th, and last, watercooling rig. Way too much money, and I can get near the same performance air-cooled, abiet running a bit hotter on the GPUs but 80C is fine after running them at 95C for mining on them for several months (yes, I mined on the Titans for 3 straight months at 90 to 93C - zero issues, zero crashes). I run Skyn3t's BIOS which removes the temp downclocking and boosting. I lock in the Mhz I want, and increase the Temp limits - no downclocking at 81C. In BF4, at 100% usage, they usually run around 80 to 82C with the LLC mod and voltage maxed out. That convinced me that I didn't need to water cool them. Besides, after a built like this:  (one of my previous builds, before I knew better to 3-way SLI @ 6000x1080 resolution) ...I really didn't have any room for right heat exchangers. Air cooled is much easier on my wallet, easier to upgrade, and is just fine for my performance. I hit the top 15 in 3DMark for 2-way SLI - being the only air-cooled guru. That's good enough for me. rjbarker You're 4930K is OC'd and running 4.8 Ghz with an H80i .....really? That is some chip, please post pics of load temps :) ....my 3930K at 4.9Ghz required 1.405v and with a 360 Rad (H 320 ) would reach low 80's....couldnt come close to this with an H100i.....
Actually, it's an H80 in the pics. And yep, 4.8 Ghz back when I pushed the most stable limits. Temps were really high though, around 80C on the stock H80. The H80i was just in the pic as I tore it apart to get the heat exchanger for my TEC-Waterchiller build I am still working on for this project. From memory, it runs about 80C @ 4.8 Ghz with a 40% PWM duty cycle on the CPU fan (around 2800 RPMs, 6000 rpms max) when stressed under Prime95. They really have high static pressure. Remember, the H80 is just a hold over until I get my TEC waterchiller converted over and built. That should remove around 50 to 100W (depending on what TECs I use) from the liquid, and therefore increasing the ceiling. As a matter of fact, while sitting on these parts for months last year, I finally just grabbed a $25 refurbished H80 I had in storage that was just sitting. It's the last component I needed to bring my desktop back online. It's just temp until I get the TEC build finished. I lowered it down to around 4.5 Ghz a while back to debug some bluescreens. It turned out to be the bluetooth, which BF4 hates anyways so that's now all disabled. I just never pushed it back up as 160 BCLK @ 4.5 Ghz is just fine for me to work with. If I find time to spend the relentless time to get it back to 4.8 Ghz and stress testing it, I'll be sure to take more pics for ya. As of now I run far too many apps and servers on it, demos for clients, to shut it all down and spend a day playing with it again (I run it 24/7). As for now, you can see the 3DMark link for ~4.7 Ghz validation (CPU-Z said 4702 Mhz, RealTemp said 4706 Mhz, but 3DMark says 4647 Mhz for some reason). http://www.3dmark.com/fs/1275341 Those temps didn't exceed 73C, I know for a fact. But we all know 3DMark is not the best FPU stressor. I don't run more than 30 to 35 % PWM duty cycle on the fans as anything higher than that is unbearably LOUD in my whisper quiet office. And besides, if I have to run it higher than that then it's not worth it.
post edited by eduncan911 - Monday, June 16, 2014 11:13 PM
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rjbarker
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Re: APOLLO V5 "Finally" - SLI Titans, 4930k @ 4.8 Ghz
Tuesday, June 17, 2014 1:30 AM
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^^^ Cool...just curious, as I know I could never go back to Air...... ;)
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eduncan911
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Re: APOLLO V5 "Finally" - SLI Titans, 4930k @ 4.8 Ghz
Tuesday, June 17, 2014 2:13 AM
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rjbarker ^^^ Cool...just curious, as I know I could never go back to Air...... ;)
+1 on your rig. I bought a bunch of compression fittings for my X58 + 580 HC build you see above. Lots of special bends for that stuff, around $500 worth. Turns out I just gave up on the time involved as I needed my system up and working. Every hour I don't have my system, is an hour I can't bill. So I know exactly the time involved for you to build a system like that. Kudos! Chaos_21 Nice job...+1 (edit the pics..3 are upside down)
+1 on your rig as well. Are you still sporting the 480s? I had tri 470s and tri 480s back in the day on my X58 builds (pic above with watercooling) before I overhauled it with the 580 Hydrocoppers. The input lag (PCH not on chip, like the X79) and the micro-stutter was just too annoying. I miss my 470s. They were the last inexpensive build I did - before the NVIDIA price gouging began with the 500 series. I remember the threads on these forums back then - "A GTX 580 for $550? What are they smoking, crack? No one will pay that." Now, we have $3000 dual Titans. LOL Btw, I stole my Titans above for $1100 shipped. They are serials #20 and #21, sequential. That will be my last great purchase. I am currently waiting on the X99 platform to come out this Nov '14 with DDR4. So to knock down the prices of DDR3 2400 so I can go full on 64 GB in my rig. - I don't care if the Haswel-E will be, say, 50% more efficient. My entire rig "idles" at 110 watts, so says my watt meter. I have full C states enabled in the BIOS to downclock on the 160 Mhz Bclk.
- I don't care if the Haswel-E will be, say, 30% faster. My rig here is way more faster than I ever need for development and servers. I am currently I/O limited with my SATA 6 Gbps SSD (90,000 IOPS), so says my database analyzer. Until they make something faster (SATA 12?), I'm cool.
I am extremely happy with my build. A little more umph wouldn't hurt in the GPUs so I don't have to overclock them so damn much. I am running ~44% overclock in BF4 (the 3DMark runs were 46% overclock). 837 Mhz -> 1206 Mhz in BF4! Skyn3t's BIOS removes boost and lets you "lock in" the core clock, and it stays put. And no, a 3rd Titan would not work... 3-way SLI is faulty with Nvidia's SLI at 6000x1080 resolutions = micro-stutter. I went through 7 motherboards and several GPU combos (670s and 780s) to find that out (I ignored what others were saying in the forums, now I know the truth). I now see what people complain about. 2-way SLI is silky smooth!
post edited by eduncan911 - Tuesday, June 17, 2014 2:23 AM
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XrayMan
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Re: APOLLO V5 "Finally" - SLI Titans, 4930k @ 4.8 Ghz
Wednesday, June 18, 2014 4:45 AM
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Looks really nice.
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eduncan911
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Re: APOLLO V5 "Finally" - SLI Titans, 4930k @ 4.8 Ghz
Wednesday, April 15, 2015 8:34 PM
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Small update: I sent the family away to Japan for a few weeks. Translation: I had time to finally finished my H2C/TEC Hybrid setup. 4930k @ 4.6 Ghz, 160 Mhz FSB, 1.30 Vcore, all power savings enabled which downclocks so. 21C idle (ambient is 20C) without speedfan running (translation: Asus forces a minimal 20%, which activates the TECs all the time :( ). I actually have SpeedFan take over the CPU Fan BIOS control and force a 0% duty cycle at idle, with a custom fan curve. At 0% duty cycle, which means the TECs are off, idle creeps up to 28C with 20C ambient after a few hours. I could run the 20% all the time. I just prefer absolute silence (0%) instead of a server fan (max 4000 RPMs) running at 1500 rpms with hte 20% restriction Asus forces CPU Fan duty cycles to (hence, SpeedFan to override it). Max temp is relative to the amount of noise I can withstand. I've found a nice balance of around 45% activation (server fan @ 2800rpms, TECs @ 5V), which gets me around 56C under full load for an hour with very little fan noise. Sitting at 65% PWM, I can keep the CPU down around 49C, but that's too loud IMO. Heh, not even activating the TECs (0% PWM, 1000 RPM fan) and Prime95 loading the CPU, the CPU climbs to only 67C after an hour! I call that success. Now that my previous 75C @ 4.6 Ghz stressed under the H80, is now down to 50C, I may try to go back after 4.8 or even 4.9 Ghz. My problem is for 4.8 Ghz to be stable, I had to disable all the power savings of the CPU. I prefer not to do that as I run the system nearly 24/7. Would make a good benchmark, as that is what limited me in my previous 3DMark runs with the Titans. (I'll get better pics at night-time, when it's dark. These are too grainy, ick)    What a lot of people don't know about this chassis is the Automatic PWM control of the: CPU Fan + CPU Pump + Chipset Fan, in addition to monitoring the chassis ambient temps (with 5 sensors placed throughout the chassis from front to rear to center, top and bottom) to PWM control the PCI Cage and HDD fans if the chassis gets too warm. Let me re-iterate that, "Automatic Fan Control." The coolest part: A variable TEC controller that is tied into the PWM duty cycle of the CPU+Chipset Fan/Pump supply. As CPU temps increase, it increases the TEC voltage as needed. And lastly, it's smart enough to scale back/cut off the TECs if they drop below Ambient temps. Why? Because condensation would form! I'm in the process of getting the 730x.org website back online, so others can read about the technology built into this chassis (there's a lot more than just the Master Control Board which does all the work noted above). Here's a few pics of the standalone system (heat exchanger, TEC watechiller, Swiftech Appogee XT Rev2 and PWM MCP35X pump I had lying around from a previous build). Yes, it's completely self-contained and removable. The anti-kink coils serve two purposes: help reduce kinking sure, but also the 3/8" I.D. tubing is much larger than the 1/4" I.D. that the system normally ran with so I needed a way to insulate the tubing from the TEC heatsinks.   (notice the bleed port that uses standard R134a automotive refrigerant connectors - colored red/gold here!) All ready for flushing and sanitizing now.  (filling) Note: not pictured is the flushing process. You ALWAYS flush your system to sanitize it! This was the EASIEST loop to fill and bleed out of all systems I've ever had.  (Leak Testing / running for 6 hours at max duty cycle - 100% max pump speed)  (ready to install into the Fan shroud/housing and mount it!  (tight fit around the mounting screws of the fan shroud)   (ready to install, less PWM wiring to stock wiring hardness)   (The entire assembly, PWM fans and pump + TEC voltages + thermistor for anti-condensation, is all controlled with this single connector - could they make it any easier?)     (Soldering up Swiftech MCP35X PWM pump to the factory Dell 6-pin PWM wiring from the chassis) NOTE: The Swiftech PWM connector (RPM Sense and PWM Control) has the wrong colored wires - they are reversed over standard 4-pin PWM connectors. Just follow the plugs/connectors and everything will be ok. So, in this pic, Green and Blue are reversed over what a standard PWM 4-pin fan connector is. I already called and told Swiftech about the wiring error 2.5 years ago. Maybe newer MCP35X pumps are correctly colored.
post edited by eduncan911 - Wednesday, April 15, 2015 8:49 PM
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eduncan911
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Re: APOLLO V5 "Finally" - SLI Titans, 4930k @ 4.8 Ghz
Friday, July 24, 2015 1:19 AM
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Just wanted to update my own thread by saying I love the automation of the CPU TEC cooling system. Quiet as can be at idle (can't hear it) and under heavy heavy loads (encoding blu-ray movies), it ramps up a little. The best part is, I get to dial in the graphs any way I like. If I want to quieter, I increase it to run around 55 to 60C. If I want it cooler, but a little noiser, I adjust the fan/TEC curve down to 50C. Love this setup...
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zophar
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Re: APOLLO V5 "Finally" - SLI Titans, 4930k @ 4.8 Ghz
Friday, July 24, 2015 2:33 AM
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Very cool setup. Love those cases also.
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rjohnson11
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Re: APOLLO V5 "Finally" - SLI Titans, 4930k @ 4.8 Ghz
Friday, July 24, 2015 11:58 AM
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Are you going to take some more photos as you said the ones you took were grainy?
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eduncan911
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Re: APOLLO V5 "Finally" - SLI Titans, 4930k @ 4.8 Ghz
Friday, July 24, 2015 12:50 AM
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rjohnson11 Are you going to take some more photos as you said the ones you took were grainy?
You know, I am overdue for some high-quality photos... Just been too busy with work to disconnect it and put it on display. I'll try late one nite and will update this thread.
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notfordman
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Re: APOLLO V5 "Finally" - SLI Titans, 4930k @ 4.8 Ghz
Friday, July 24, 2015 5:21 PM
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Very interesting build, your choice has some cool features. The lighting looks like it could be quite fun, depending on mood... lol I am curious about the aluminum A/C fittings, while very functional I am wondering if you have experienced any corrosive issues? Great job man! +1 4 sure. :) Edit: I am curious of the mods done to the GPU coolers when you have time.
post edited by notfordman - Friday, July 24, 2015 5:27 PM
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eduncan911
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Re: APOLLO V5 "Finally" - SLI Titans, 4930k @ 4.8 Ghz
Friday, July 24, 2015 6:21 PM
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notfordman Very interesting build, your choice has some cool features. The lighting looks like it could be quite fun, depending on mood... lol I am curious about the aluminum A/C fittings, while very functional I am wondering if you have experienced any corrosive issues? Great job man! +1 4 sure. :)
Thanks! Yeah, that is the #1 issue with these Dell 730/730X H2C waterchiller+watercooling solutions when they came out: corrosion of the aluminum radiator, semi-aluminum-alloy waterchiller block and copper heatblocks (CPU * NB). The corrosion is so bad that the tubing fittings spew white paste. So to answer your question... This system used an H80i radiator (uses 3/8" I/O ports, 33% thicker than the stock Dell radiator/heat exchanger), the factor alloy-waterchiller (that uses 4 thermal electric cooling 14V plates), a high performance Apogee XT Rev2 I had laying around and that nice Swiftec PWM pump I also had laying around. That keeps the PWM of the fan + TECs + pump all in sync, which is really cool. I have had really good success with this fluid with the mixed metals: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/14160/ex-liq-190/EK_EKoolant_Premium_Liquid_Cooling_Premix_Coolant_-_1L_-_UV_Blue.html?tl=g57c589 I know, I could make my own - and I have tried with anti-freeze mixtures and such. While I did have some success, I didn't like how they turned out. I personally always use the same metals, add a Silvercoil, assemble the system in a bathtube and sanitize with 4 cap fulls of white vinegar with 2 gallons of distilled water (<- that's my procedure, btw), then I flush the system with a gallon or two of distilled water. That leaves me with a super-clean system that I usually fill with the silver coil, distilled water, and 1 or 2 drops of Iodine - I've ran closed-loop systems for 7+ systems with that setup with zero issues (except clouding up clear tubing). Since these are mixed-metal builds, I didn't want to take a chance with the refurnished units I build for others. So, I've been using that EK coolant mixture (after sanitizing as mentioned above) for years without issues. So far, after running for 4 months, no problems (I'll take recent pics). I have noticed a drop of about 1/4" in the res unit. I refurbish these H2C units for others usually by taking an H80/H80i and cutting it apart to take the waterpump + copper block and copper radiator. I use the original waterchiller and make sure to sterilize the system first and then fill with an anti-corrosion mix, much like Primochill's and EK Coolant liquids. They don't corrode for years - actually I have one such H80 + H2C + TEC Waterchiller still running 24/7 as my server for the last 4 years. A few months ago when I was finally finishing my APOLLO build in this thread, I decided it was a good time to check that old setup to see how much has evaporated/corroded. 1) there was no corrosion and 2) yes, it lost about 30% of fluid but still worked. I added an external res, refilled it with the same mixture and started it back up. notfordman Edit: I am curious of the mods done to the GPU coolers when you have time.
The HS+Fan are stock. What I did was buy some overly expensive high W / mK thermal padding like these: http://www.frozencpu.com/cat/l2/g8/c487/list/p1/Thermal_Interface-Thermal_Pads_Tape.html Step 1) And carefully measured each spacing as they are different thicknesses and replaced all existing ones over the VRMs + memory. Also when replacing them, I made them oversized - cooling a lot more with more contact. Step 2) I also added a additional VRM and memory VRM cooling that did not exist before, on the HS&Fan side using the same procedure. Step 3) For the backplate, I did the same thing: I replaced all wimpy thermal padding with these high performance ones and noticed that backplate skyrocket in temp readings. So, then I added two "CPU heatsinks" to the back of the backplates, like these: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/10427/cpu-cjg-38/Cooljag_DEN-B_1U_Server_Passive_CPU_Cooler_JAC0L06C-0_-_Socket_LGA_115x.html ^- not those exactly, but you get the idea. Low-profile, and directed so that the fans from the 730x chassis blows over them. It really lowered the temps of the backplate. I also added VRM cooling to the backside as they were super hot as well, using the same high performance thermal padding. Results were a Titan core overclock of to 1280 mhz (boost disabled) and 7200 mhz on the memory. It could do more on memory, but it wasn't stable with those high core clocks. Here's some more info on the modifications to the Titans: http://www.overclock.net/t/1363440/official-nvidia-geforce-gtx-titan-owners-club/19760_20#post_21339691 Posted some pics there as well. Those pics are with the ACX cooler, but I yanked them off as the heat inside the chassis was too much. The mods to the stock HS&Fan pretty much match the performance of the ACX coolers. Though, the stock HS&F are louder. Small price to pay, to get the heat OUT THE BACK!
-=[ MODSRIGS :: FOR-SALE :: HEAT :: EBAY :: EVGA AFFILIATE CODE - HUVCIK9P42 :: TING ]=-
Dell XPS 730X Modified H2C Hybrid TEC Chassis:: Asrock Tachi X399, 2950x, 64 GB ECC @ 2667:: 2x AMD VEGA 64 Reference:: 3x 24" 120 Hz for 3D Vision Surround (6000x1080 @ 120 Hz)
Thinkpad P1 Gen1 :: Xeon E-2176M, 32 GB ECC @ 2667, 9 Hrs w/4K, tri-monitor 5760x1080
100% AMD and Linux household with 10 Gbps to laptop and desktops
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