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Close water cooling vs custom

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cyclogenisis
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Monday, December 10, 2012 1:37 AM (permalink)
Hi All,
 
Wondering how much of a performance increase I would get off of my 3770k if I did custom water cooling vs the closed loop i currently own.
 
thanks.
 

CPU: i7 3770k OC 5.0ghz vcore 1.480  http://valid.canardpc.com...c.php?id=2623057  |    CPU Block: XSPC Raystorm
Mobo: Asus P8Z77 PRO
GPU(s):  eVGA GTX 690    |     GPU Block: XSPC GTX690 Razor
SSD: ADATA SX900 256GB
RAM: DDR3 16GB Kingston HyperX T1 1600mhz (KHX1600C9D3T1K2/8GX)x2
PSU: Corsair 1200i 80+ Platinum
SSD: ADATA SX900
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    lehpron
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    Re:Close water cooling vs custom Monday, December 10, 2012 2:16 AM (permalink)
    Truthfully, better cooling will have diminishing returns on your overclock, it isn't like you'll get into the 5GHz mark unless you know for certain other have done it with your FPO batch number (both on the IHS and the retail box label).  Someone on XS was able to get their 3770K to 5.3GHz using a Corsair H100, but more than likely, that result was due to their L260B468 batch.
     
    Quite frankly, custom will cost you a lot if you're just cooling one part because the quality is much higher than those all-in-ones, you're looking at $220 for just the CPU, you might as well other blocks for your graphics card(s) and a few more rads just to make it worth the total investment.

    For Intel processors, 0.122 x TDP = Continuous Amps at 12v [source].  

    Introduction to Thermoelectric Cooling
    #2
    cyclogenisis
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    Re:Close water cooling vs custom Monday, December 10, 2012 2:20 AM (permalink)
    so, do you think i can go past 5.0 ghz on custom water? any idea what the performance difference is % wise between custom vs closed?

    CPU: i7 3770k OC 5.0ghz vcore 1.480  http://valid.canardpc.com...c.php?id=2623057  |    CPU Block: XSPC Raystorm
    Mobo: Asus P8Z77 PRO
    GPU(s):  eVGA GTX 690    |     GPU Block: XSPC GTX690 Razor
    SSD: ADATA SX900 256GB
    RAM: DDR3 16GB Kingston HyperX T1 1600mhz (KHX1600C9D3T1K2/8GX)x2
    PSU: Corsair 1200i 80+ Platinum
    SSD: ADATA SX900
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    lehpron
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    Re:Close water cooling vs custom Monday, December 10, 2012 3:10 AM (permalink)
    cyclogenisis 
    so, do you think i can go past 5.0 ghz on custom water?
    What is your FPO batch number?  That was why I gave you the link of the XtremeSystems thread, so you can fish through and find someone that had a close enough batch to yours, see how they did.  
     
    All 3770K's and fabricated with slightly different batch quality; some luck out with all-in-one liquid coolers (like post # 8 in that thread) and get better overclocks than you, while others need custom liquid and don't get as high as you have (like post #24 in that thread).  
     
    The batch is everything, so look yours up either on the IHS itself or find your retail box, no software is going to tell you what you batch number is.  Without knowing that, none of us can really guess, why spend $250+ without knowing if there is a benefit or not?  That was why I suggested cooling other things along with the CPU so you get a better whole investment.
    post edited by lehpron - Monday, December 10, 2012 3:30 AM

    For Intel processors, 0.122 x TDP = Continuous Amps at 12v [source].  

    Introduction to Thermoelectric Cooling
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    jlee2448
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    Re:Close water cooling vs custom Monday, December 10, 2012 3:30 AM (permalink)
    It would depend on your batch number.  I don't know if I would push the cpu much past 1.4 even with better cooling.
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    ssj92
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    Re:Close water cooling vs custom Monday, December 10, 2012 5:24 AM (permalink)
    Out of curiosity, what exactly do you plan on doing with a overclock higher than 4.8Ghz?
     
    Also is heat limiting you from overclocking currently, or you just want to know how much of a difference it would make?  
    post edited by ssj92 - Monday, December 10, 2012 5:27 AM

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    TECH_DaveB
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    Re:Close water cooling vs custom Monday, December 10, 2012 2:00 PM (permalink)
    To get X or Y overclock is dependent on your CPU, batch is a big deal, but also, sometimes you just get a "dud" chip for clocking.  I had to volt my 930 HARD to go from 4.0-4.2 and keep my ram anywhere near stable at 1600.  Whereas I know others who hit it at 2000 with far less voltage across the board.
    The custom loop will allow you to get far better temps, in theory, and have more of an overhead for clocking and/or cooling other devices.  Also, it will typically allow for better temps than a H100, and in general, the cooler something is, the longer they last.
    #7
    cyclogenisis
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    Re:Close water cooling vs custom Monday, December 10, 2012 9:51 PM (permalink)
    My Batch # is 3223B985 . Can't find anyone posting with this.

    CPU: i7 3770k OC 5.0ghz vcore 1.480  http://valid.canardpc.com...c.php?id=2623057  |    CPU Block: XSPC Raystorm
    Mobo: Asus P8Z77 PRO
    GPU(s):  eVGA GTX 690    |     GPU Block: XSPC GTX690 Razor
    SSD: ADATA SX900 256GB
    RAM: DDR3 16GB Kingston HyperX T1 1600mhz (KHX1600C9D3T1K2/8GX)x2
    PSU: Corsair 1200i 80+ Platinum
    SSD: ADATA SX900
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    lehpron
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    Re:Close water cooling vs custom Tuesday, December 11, 2012 1:26 AM (permalink)
    cyclogenisis
    My Batch # is 3223B985 . Can't find anyone posting with this.
    Only the bolded red matters, for instance I searched the bold and found that post #400 claims their 3770K achieved 5GHz with 1.36v, while #402 claims 5GHz at 1.4v-- same 3223B batch.  Reading through about ten pages worth, it looks like the 3218 batch was considered a better one.  BTW, the second number refers to the week it was made in the year, yours was done during the 23rd week of the year.  New ones out now might be from the batch 3248, 48th week of the year.  Might be tough finding an older one.
     
      With your 4.8GHz with 1.4v, it is hard to tell if it is max or you just need to reduce your full load temps.  At this point you have to have faith and gamble, good luck.
     
    Just so you know, because the record stands at 7GHz with almost 2v using liquid helium below -200 C, the way to tell an imperfect batch is whether your processor reaches the same frequency with the same voltage and cooling.  Therefore, scaling down to regular air or liquid cooling, a golden batch would overclock really well without much voltage compared to everything else.
    post edited by lehpron - Tuesday, December 11, 2012 2:52 PM

    For Intel processors, 0.122 x TDP = Continuous Amps at 12v [source].  

    Introduction to Thermoelectric Cooling
    #9
    feniks
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    Re:Close water cooling vs custom Wednesday, December 12, 2012 8:29 PM (permalink)
    the easy test to judge the CPU you have (regardless of batch) is to see how much vcore it needs to get fully stable under Cinebench at 4.5 or 4.6GHz when using 25% vdroop on evga Z77 ftw (or 75% LLC on most other boards).
     
    For instance if you can get 4.5GHz fully stable with let's say 1.16-1.19v vcore under load then the chances are it's a good clocker.
    My 3770K can do Cinebench stable 4.7GHz with 1.21V under load
     
    If you are feeling brave, another quick test is to find the lowest 5GHz bootable vcore (it just needs to boot windows and logon to user profile without crashing). most good clocking chips are able to do this below 1.35V vcore (as set in BIOS). The best ones can do this at 1.20V (aka famous batch 3218B).
     
    I am running my 3770K daily at 4.9GHz on offset vcore and benching it at 5.1-5.2GHz with a fixed vcore (always 75% LLC), but the latter one calls for quite a lot of vcore (over 1.62v under load) while it can do a 5.0GHz fully Cinebench stable with only 1.46v under load.
     
    My batch is pretty common among Microcenter stores, 3224B, it's totally worth the $229 they want for it
     
    good batches don't guarantee the good chip, as said above, you may still get a bad clocker. good batches just increase (greatly!) your chances of getting a good clocker.
     
    You might wonder how come I am running such high vcores and not mention temperatures, probably you think that my watercooling must be superior to anything ... no, I went a step further and delided my chip and replaced the stock Intel TIM (which is as good as dried out cement, meaning not at all) and used CoolLaboratory Liquid Ultra on the die and slapped it back together - this process lowers the IB i5/i7 temperatures under load by around 20-30C! couple that with decent water cooling and you can get up to 500MHz overclocking capability improvement.
     
    Closed loop coolers are not bad, I know at least a few folks from OCN using them on delided chips with very nice results, but here is where the batches come into play, their chips run high clocks with low vcore, so the thermal cooling solution is a minor problem at this point.
     
    Custom Watercooling will give you much better control over what you want to achieve and how, plus you can incorporate some fancy color themes or aesthetics into it as well, to each its own!
    It takes time and patience to achieve "the goal", however keep in mind that you could also go with relatively inexpensive XSPC Raystorm D5 CPU kit (even an RX/EX/AX 240 radiator will do for CPU loop only) with a Dual Bay reservoir and it will be more efficient than any H80 or H100. If you plan on getting GPUs under water as well then think ahead and get bigger radiators (or more than one), but that is when it gets pricey (GPU full cover blocks are expensive, extra rads are expensive, nice compression fittings are expensive, etc.)

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