Nereus
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Friday, February 03, 2017 0:15 PM
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I came across a comment on tomshardware.com [ link] that made for some interesting reading. Copy and paste follows, comments welcome. There's very little speed difference in real-world use because the bottleneck is 4k speeds. And both SATA and PCIe SSDs have almost the same 4k speeds. The extra bandwidth of PCIe does not give you any advantage for 4k speeds which are down around 30 MB/s.
Say to load up a game the computer needs to read 1 GB of contiguous files (sequential read) and 1 GB of small files.
The SATA drive has 500 MB/s sequential speeds, 30 MB/s 4k speeds. The PCIe drive has 2 GB/s sequential speeds, 30 MB/s 4k speeds.
- SATA drive takes (1 GB / 500 MB/s) = 2 sec to read the sequential data, 1 GB / 30 MB/s = 34.1 sec to read the 4k data. Total time is 36.1 sec.
- PCIe drive takes (1 GB / 2 GB/s) = 0.5 sec to read the sequential data, 1 GB / 30 MB/s = 34.1 sec to read the 4k data. Total time is 34.6 sec.
99.9% of people will not be able to tell the difference between 34.6 sec and 36.1 sec without a stopwatch.
This is why I keep telling people to ignore the sequential speeds and instead concentrate on the 4k speeds and IOPS. In the above two examples, 94% - 98% of the drive's time is spent on the 4k reads. So a SATA drive with slightly faster at 4k read/writes will actually be faster in real use than a PCIe drive with much faster sequential speeds. e.g. If the SATA drive has 35 MB/s 4k speeds.
- (1 GB / 500 MB/s) = 2 sec for sequential data. 1 GB / 35 MB/s = 29.3 sec to read the 4k data. Total time = 31.3 sec, which beats the PCIe SSD with slower 4k speeds.
If the drive with the best 4k/IOPS is a PCIe drive, great! But if it's a SATA drive, I would get that SATA drive.
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Bobmitch
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Re: PCIe vs SATA SSD
Friday, February 03, 2017 1:38 PM
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Very useful info...nice find!
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WackyWRZ
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Re: PCIe vs SATA SSD
Friday, February 03, 2017 2:09 PM
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Good info and it just makes me feel better about not feeling the need to upgrade to one. I've seen actual benchmarks and reviews that show this to be true - 1-2s better load times on programs and the only thing that shows major improvement are benchmark numbers. Also probably the same reason that I have seen SSDs in RAID-0 perform worse than a single drive.
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bdary
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Re: PCIe vs SATA SSD
Friday, February 03, 2017 2:30 PM
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WackyWRZ Good info and it just makes me feel better about not feeling the need to upgrade to one. I've seen actual benchmarks and reviews that show this to be true - 1-2s better load times on programs and the only thing that shows major improvement are benchmark numbers. Also probably the same reason that I have seen SSDs in RAID-0 perform worse than a single drive.
+1. I have not seen any need or advantage to "upgrade" to a PCIe drive either for my needs and use.
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Tech_RayH
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Re: PCIe vs SATA SSD
Friday, February 03, 2017 3:40 PM
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I have been telling this to people for a very long time. Keep in mind that the M.2 format has some technically disadvantages over the 2.5" format as the M.2 cannot fit as many NAND chips on the PCB. The more chips that are on the board the better the SSD controller can pull information from many chips and help to cut down on latency and increase 4k speeds.
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mike406
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Re: PCIe vs SATA SSD
Saturday, February 04, 2017 3:13 AM
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My 840 EVO averages around 34 MB/s for 4K speed which is interesting, and very good to know. I was considering replacing with one of those 950 Pros but not anymore. Glad to know these 2.5" drives are still kicking it when it comes to the real world.
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quadlatte
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Re: PCIe vs SATA SSD
Saturday, February 04, 2017 4:11 AM
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would really be nice if everyone would publish standard tests, it gets really hard to make a informed purchased based on hype numbers.
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quadlatte
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Re: PCIe vs SATA SSD
Sunday, February 05, 2017 7:08 AM
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T-Wolf
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Re: PCIe vs SATA SSD
Sunday, February 05, 2017 10:29 AM
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Thanks for the info, was considering going to a PCIe drive but will now stay with my regular SSD's. Thanks again, T
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Bobmitch
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Re: PCIe vs SATA SSD
Sunday, February 05, 2017 2:42 PM
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Until 4K speed changes on SSD...really not worth the jump to NvME, if you already own an SSD. If from scratch...no reason not to, except price per GB.
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007vsMagua
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Re: PCIe vs SATA SSD
Sunday, February 05, 2017 4:18 PM
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It seems if your only interested in 4K then the SATA solution is the way to go, but surly there must be some advantages to going PCIe.
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Dukman
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Re: PCIe vs SATA SSD
Sunday, February 05, 2017 4:25 PM
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007vsMagua It seems if your only interested in 4K then the SATA solution is the way to go, but surly there must be some advantages to going PCIe.
Some new cases out there have limited drive bays. And don't the PCIe drives use on board power?
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rjohnson11
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Re: PCIe vs SATA SSD
Sunday, February 05, 2017 4:29 PM
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For real world testing my M.2 NVMe SSD is faster than anything I've used previously including standard SSD and mechanical hard drives.
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somethingc00l
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Re: PCIe vs SATA SSD
Monday, February 06, 2017 10:11 PM
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Sure that's all true, but operating on the wrong assumption that NVMe drives don't have faster random 4K speeds than SATA drives. They are faster at 4K, much more so in fact. E.g.: http://www.techspot.com/review/1281-samsung-ssd-960-evo/page4.html 960 evo pulling almost double the 4k read and write over SATA drives. Sure it is not worth it for most people, but don't pretend there is not a difference, there is. Also this is all ignoring latency which is the actual important part with SSDs (and PCIe absolutely crushes SATA for latency).
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MSim
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Re: PCIe vs SATA SSD
Monday, February 06, 2017 10:58 PM
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I just recently built a new system, i went from WD Black 750GB HDD on my old system to Samsung EVO 960 NVMe PCIe m.2 1TB on the new one, i tell a huge performance difference.
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Nereus
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Re: PCIe vs SATA SSD
Tuesday, February 07, 2017 0:40 PM
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From an HDD it will certainly be a huge difference, whether you went PCIe or SATA.
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mike406
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Re: PCIe vs SATA SSD
Tuesday, February 07, 2017 2:13 AM
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Hm, seems to be some conflicting data now...Still think I'll hold out on NVMe for some time though as synthetic benchmarks will always over exaggerate compared to real world performance.
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007vsMagua
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Re: PCIe vs SATA SSD
Tuesday, February 07, 2017 3:36 PM
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mike406 Hm, seems to be some conflicting data now...Still think I'll hold out on NVMe for some time though as synthetic benchmarks will always over exaggerate compared to real world performance.
It's probably not a bad idea to wait awhile for NVMe to develop further. With a current shortage of NAND chips prices are predicted to rise, supply and demand. I just read this article at Tom's Hardware about WD joining forces with Toshiba to produce the first 64-Layer 512GB TLC NAND die.
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kougar
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Re: PCIe vs SATA SSD
Friday, February 10, 2017 11:33 AM
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007vsMagua It's probably not a bad idea to wait awhile for NVMe to develop further. With a current shortage of NAND chips prices are predicted to rise, supply and demand. I just read this article at Tom's Hardware about WD joining forces with Toshiba to produce the first 64-Layer 512GB TLC NAND die.
All three NAND producers have 64-layer 512Gb (not GB) chips sampling, WD/Toshiba, SK Hynix, and Micron. It will help lower price-per-GB, but it also means that with the adoption of 512Gb chips 256GB drives may not perform that well. We will probably see the best performance sweet-spot change from 256GB to 512GB sized drives. In which case, that better price gets offset some by having to buy a larger drive.
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