EVGA1225
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I finally finished building my new PC with 5950x w/ Lian-Li Galahad 360 AIO, Dark Hero, 64gb G.Skill DDR 4000 (running at 3666mhz), Corsair AX850 (good for 1,000W per reviews), Lian Li O-11 Razer Edition Case. I swapped the crappy stock fans on the Kingpin for the Lian Li SL-120. The fans are connected to the motherboard HAMP port instead of the GPU so to not take away power from the GPU. The first time I ran Port Royal, I got a score of 13.2k with average GPU temps around 68. I then re ran the benchmarks with open-case with starting GPU temps at 21C and averaging 43deg C. I repeatedly get 12.8k. The SL-120 fans were set to run at 100%. This is all running stock. Stock GPU and CPU clocks. Core clocks average 1978mhz. GPU power never exceeded 418W. Can anyone tell me wth is wrong with this Kingpin? https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/57706441
post edited by EVGA1225 - 2021/02/01 12:49:24
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Dabadger84
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Re: Extremely Low Kingpin 3090 Score
2021/02/01 10:32:45
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Uuuuuuuuuuh yeah that's low indeed. Do you have a link to your run so I can take a look at it? The PSU isn't a problem, that GPU temp is definitely too high on the first run, that's for sure - if you could post a picture of your case setup that might also be helpful. For reference, this is the score I got with the GPU at full stock, with me running my daily-use OC on my CPU/RAM (5GHz CPU, RAM at stock 3600MHz CL16): https://www.3dmark.com/pr/818304 (13790) What drivers are you using?
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Clovis559
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Re: Extremely Low Kingpin 3090 Score
2021/02/01 10:43:51
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Have you switched to the LN2 Bios?
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EVGA1225
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Re: Extremely Low Kingpin 3090 Score
2021/02/01 10:47:08
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I just added the link to my test results in the OP. I haven't tried LN2 bios. I tried OC bios and got even lower 12.5k score. Power also never exceeded 418W. I'm using the latest Nvidia drivers.
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Dabadger84
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Re: Extremely Low Kingpin 3090 Score
2021/02/01 10:51:28
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Clovis559 Have you switched to the LN2 Bios?
I'd recommend just about anyone with a Kingpin start out on the Normal BIOS & see what the card can do with that BIOS (since it's power capped pretty low, gives you an idea of what the card can push clocks wise without the higher power limit). I skipped the OC BIOS switch position completely, did testing on the Normal BIOS first, then switched to the LN2 BIOS for the extra power limit. At present, I haven't actually gotten any additional clock-headroom out of the BIOS change, I was able to hit +150 core/+1250 vRAM on the Normal BIOS, and haven't gotten anything higher to pass consistently in Port Royal yet on the LN2 520W BIOS. Driver version can have a pretty decent effect on score (several hundred points in some cases), and I still haven't figured out how to replicate the spontaneous 400pt bump in scores I had a few days ago - so there's definitely some score variance out there that I don't know the full answers on how to get the "best" out of it, yet.
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kraade
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Re: Extremely Low Kingpin 3090 Score
2021/02/01 10:57:33
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12.5 is a OC'ed 3080 score...something is amiss
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Dabadger84
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Re: Extremely Low Kingpin 3090 Score
2021/02/01 10:59:47
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EVGA1225 I just added the link to my test results in the OP. I haven't tried LN2 bios. I tried OC bios and got even lower 12.5k score. Power also never exceeded 418W. I'm using the latest Nvidia drivers.
K, so far starters, your average clock is lower than it should be, but only by a little bit. At the clocks you're seeing, there is no reason you shouldn't be hitting 13.7-13.8k - you're way down in the high 12s. When you swapped in the Kingpin did you do a DDU/driver cleaner run & a fresh driver install? If not definitely try that. Are you using Precision X1? If so, close it during the test as that can have a pretty significant impact on performance. I have tended towards using Afterburner, I used Precision X1 to set the OLED Display to show what I want it to show and haven't used it since. Can you post a screenshot of the post-run screen of 3DMark with the clock speed readouts charts on it? I'm curious how your CPU is behaving... Port Royal is like 90% GPU 10% CPU, but that 10% can effect scoring a lot. Are you closing background processes or just running it with nothing special closed? It wouldn't contribute to as big a score gap as you're seeing, but I've seen my score go up by almost 100 pts before by closing out everything in the background so that the CPU/GPU aren't getting leeched by anything during the run. The screen I'm refering to is this one: I can tell you I later ended up hitting 15.4k with the same core clock seen in that screenshot - and I can also tell you I still have no flippin' clue how I manifested that 800pt increase. A little bit of it was a 250MHz bump on the Memory clock, but that's only about a 50pt increase.
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Clovis559
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Re: Extremely Low Kingpin 3090 Score
2021/02/01 11:18:45
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That's a tiny case :D You don't use a PCIe extension cable to make your GPU vertical etc do you? I tried one that I knew was too long and I was getting 12.5k too o.O
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EVGA1225
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Re: Extremely Low Kingpin 3090 Score
2021/02/01 12:46:45
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Nope I plugged the card directly into the PCIE slot. Lian-Li 0-11 case is not small. It is pretty darn wide and very easy to work with. Only thing is the side mounted radiator spits air into a chamber instead of directly out the case. Windows is fresh install. I ran Port Royal again this time without Precision X1 and HWInfo in the background leaving only GPU-Z in the background. Also I unchecked demo in before I ran the test. Now with a closed case and hotter temps, I achieved 13.5k twice in a row. https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/57711743 I don't know how to post screenshots. I guess this score is not too far from average stock speeds.
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Clovis559
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Re: Extremely Low Kingpin 3090 Score
2021/02/01 12:55:01
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You can upload the file to EVGA if you click "Pop out full veresion" and the file is under 500k, just drag it into the box and it will upload, or you can upload it to imgur etc and link to it.
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Dabadger84
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Re: Extremely Low Kingpin 3090 Score
2021/02/01 13:46:48
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EVGA1225 Nope I plugged the card directly into the PCIE slot. Lian-Li 0-11 case is not small. It is pretty darn wide and very easy to work with. Only thing is the side mounted radiator spits air into a chamber instead of directly out the case. Windows is fresh install. I ran Port Royal again this time without Precision X1 and HWInfo in the background leaving only GPU-Z in the background. Also I unchecked demo in before I ran the test. Now with a closed case and hotter temps, I achieved 13.5k twice in a row. https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/57711743 I don't know how to post screenshots. I guess this score is not too far from average stock speeds.
That's definitely much better, and pretty crazy that Precision was leeching your score that much. Your core is still boosting lower than it should, you have a 2010MHz starting boost vs my card was hitting 2055 at the start, and your average was 1979 vs my 1998 - I'm unsure if that small of a clock difference could actually be a 250pt difference, but at least now you're close to where you should be. Your average temp is 10C higher than mine was on a similarly-stock run, that's probably an explanation as to why the boost clock is lower. Fact that it's only going down ~20MHz for a 10C increase in temps is actually pretty good. Do you have the GPU radiator setup as intake or exhaust, how many fans are setup as intake (again a picture of the actual system setup would be great)? Try running again with the side of your case off & see how it goes.
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Dyezak
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Re: Extremely Low Kingpin 3090 Score
2021/02/01 19:47:57
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The thing about these threads that makes me really interested is the fact that in the original 3090 release the FTW3 Ultra 3090 was ticking 14,900 and sometimes up to 15,000 in port royal on air. Granted, that was some cold air on those runs...but we are also talking about a 450w limit on the BIOS too. Without crazy cold air, we saw 14,400 and 14,500 across many cards. So how is it that a card with better power delivery, a factory AIO, and a 520w BIOS is so damn far off that mark? Yes, the silicone lottery plays a part, but we are really seeing 3080's outscoring a lot of these 3090's. Hell, even my 3080 is hitting 12,712 on air with an average 44c temp across a run and my current 3090 undergoing RMA was clocking 12,200. Another thread I was watching has been tracking if the cards are coming from China or Taiwan. My 12,700 scoring 3080 is a 2012 serial number from China and my 12,200 scoring 3090 is a 2114 from Taiwan.
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EVGA1225
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Re: Extremely Low Kingpin 3090 Score
2021/02/01 19:59:29
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Dabadger84 That's definitely much better, and pretty crazy that Precision was leeching your score that much. Your core is still boosting lower than it should, you have a 2010MHz starting boost vs my card was hitting 2055 at the start, and your average was 1979 vs my 1998 - I'm unsure if that small of a clock difference could actually be a 250pt difference, but at least now you're close to where you should be. Your average temp is 10C higher than mine was on a similarly-stock run, that's probably an explanation as to why the boost clock is lower. Fact that it's only going down ~20MHz for a 10C increase in temps is actually pretty good. Do you have the GPU radiator setup as intake or exhaust, how many fans are setup as intake (again a picture of the actual system setup would be great)? Try running again with the side of your case off & see how it goes.
I have the 3 SL-120 setup on pull and exhausting out of the case. It averaged 43deg during the benchmark with open case and around 57deg with closed case. During intense gaming, it gets about 63deg. It is comletely stock with no o/c at all. I'm wondering if the stock thermal paste is not applied correctly which is common but I don't want to disassemble it since I don't know which thermal pads to get for the memory. Can you tell me what average temps you got at stock and if you were running open case?
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Dabadger84
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Re: Extremely Low Kingpin 3090 Score
2021/02/01 21:51:06
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Dyezak The thing about these threads that makes me really interested is the fact that in the original 3090 release the FTW3 Ultra 3090 was ticking 14,900 and sometimes up to 15,000 in port royal on air. Granted, that was some cold air on those runs...but we are also talking about a 450w limit on the BIOS too. Without crazy cold air, we saw 14,400 and 14,500 across many cards. So how is it that a card with better power delivery, a factory AIO, and a 520w BIOS is so damn far off that mark? Yes, the silicone lottery plays a part, but we are really seeing 3080's outscoring a lot of these 3090's. Hell, even my 3080 is hitting 12,712 on air with an average 44c temp across a run and my current 3090 undergoing RMA was clocking 12,200. Another thread I was watching has been tracking if the cards are coming from China or Taiwan. My 12,700 scoring 3080 is a 2012 serial number from China and my 12,200 scoring 3090 is a 2114 from Taiwan.
Kingpins can hit 16k+ if the conditions are right, 15k really isn't that hard for them if your system is setup for it either. I hit 15.4k for my personal best, and that was at a benchmark stable (as in it could run multiple runs and have no crashes) +150/+1250, with ambient being at room temperature so nothing special. At stock, any 3090 is going to get around the scores we're talking about, at around those clocks (1965-1995MHz core clock) - with some tweaks you can see slightly higher or slightly lower, depending on how your system is behaving. I've gotten as high as 13933 completely stock on the GPU, with no special air temps. I also had the problem of not being able to hit 15k at those very clocks (+150/+1250) then after a few driver changes, randomly hit 15.4k, repeatedly, then haven't been able to hit it since. So there is entirely a real thing of having 400+ point swings for completely random reasons. I'm on the same drivers I was for a 15410 run and I could run with the exact same conditions right now and probably barely get 15k. I don't know the reasons "why" or how to correct them/make it happen again - if I ever figure that out, I'll be sure to post about it. EVGA1225
Dabadger84 That's definitely much better, and pretty crazy that Precision was leeching your score that much. Your core is still boosting lower than it should, you have a 2010MHz starting boost vs my card was hitting 2055 at the start, and your average was 1979 vs my 1998 - I'm unsure if that small of a clock difference could actually be a 250pt difference, but at least now you're close to where you should be. Your average temp is 10C higher than mine was on a similarly-stock run, that's probably an explanation as to why the boost clock is lower. Fact that it's only going down ~20MHz for a 10C increase in temps is actually pretty good. Do you have the GPU radiator setup as intake or exhaust, how many fans are setup as intake (again a picture of the actual system setup would be great)? Try running again with the side of your case off & see how it goes.
I have the 3 SL-120 setup on pull and exhausting out of the case. It averaged 43deg during the benchmark with open case and around 57deg with closed case. During intense gaming, it gets about 63deg. It is comletely stock with no o/c at all. I'm wondering if the stock thermal paste is not applied correctly which is common but I don't want to disassemble it since I don't know which thermal pads to get for the memory. Can you tell me what average temps you got at stock and if you were running open case?
I haven't run it at stock for an extended period of time, but for a Port Royal Benchmark run I think the highest "average" temp I've had listed on the results page is like 49-50C, and that was with a pretty heavy OC. https://www.3dmark.com/pr/818304 13790 @ stock, 44C average temp, 1998MHz average clock https://www.3dmark.com/pr/819440 14975 (before I magically fixed things), 50C average temp, 2179 average clock https://www.3dmark.com/pr/820304 15037 (still before magic fix), 49C average temp, 2177 average clock Then there's the magic fix scores, with ambient of 66-68F: https://www.3dmark.com/pr/826610 15409, 46C average temp, 2178MHz average clock https://www.3dmark.com/pr/826695 15461, 48C average temp, 2192MHz average clock I think the hottest temp I've seen on the GPU core thus far was 57C back when I still had the stock/included fans on the radiator, when I forgot to prop up the top of my case to let the exhaust air flow (dust filtration hinders exhaust flow & causes some recirculation of hot air which in turn raises temperatures) and my ambient was around 74F during a Cyberpunk session with my room heater on. Other than that I don't think it's ever went past 55C during gaming/actual usage. If I recall correctly, the O11 Dynamic has the option for bottom intake, do you have fans as intake on the bottom? If not, try that, it should help with case temps. What's the current fan setup? Having something like this with the CPU radiator (if you have one) as the other intake, and the GPU radiator up top as exhaust, would be preferred:
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EVGA1225
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Re: Extremely Low Kingpin 3090 Score
2021/02/01 22:07:38
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Wow those are some amazing temps with a closed case. Mine runs 43deg C with open case and you got 44dec C with closed case. My setup is similar to yours. My setup is CPU AIO 360 at top radiator exhausting out. GPU radiator exhaust to the side of the case. I have intake fans at the bottom of the case to draw in cold air. Is it possible to lower the voltage with Precision X1? Maybe that might allow it to run cooler and keep the clocks higher.
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SoldierRBT
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Re: Extremely Low Kingpin 3090 Score
2021/02/01 22:30:07
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Dyezak The thing about these threads that makes me really interested is the fact that in the original 3090 release the FTW3 Ultra 3090 was ticking 14,900 and sometimes up to 15,000 in port royal on air. Granted, that was some cold air on those runs...but we are also talking about a 450w limit on the BIOS too. Without crazy cold air, we saw 14,400 and 14,500 across many cards. So how is it that a card with better power delivery, a factory AIO, and a 520w BIOS is so damn far off that mark? Yes, the silicone lottery plays a part, but we are really seeing 3080's outscoring a lot of these 3090's. Hell, even my 3080 is hitting 12,712 on air with an average 44c temp across a run and my current 3090 undergoing RMA was clocking 12,200. Another thread I was watching has been tracking if the cards are coming from China or Taiwan. My 12,700 scoring 3080 is a 2012 serial number from China and my 12,200 scoring 3090 is a 2114 from Taiwan.
High scores in PR and pretty much every benchmark comes down to 50% silicon lottery 50% optimized setup/overclocking skills. People can’t expect to hit 15K+ in a system with stock CPU/RAM speed and 10+ apps running in the background. With the right settings and temps, every 3090 KPE should be able to hit 15K no problem. My 3090 KPE can score 15K below 420W ambient temps and that’s powering 4 fans in total + an AIO pump. When your system is optimized and you have the proper OC skills, the rest it’s just silicon lottery. KPE waterblock hasn’t been released but I’d expect people getting 16K+ on water with these cards. My max is 15.7K with 52C max temp. I also have a 3080 FTW3 2014 serial number can do 13K under 390W and 13,4K 450W on air 51C avg.
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Dabadger84
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Re: Extremely Low Kingpin 3090 Score
2021/02/02 00:29:46
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EVGA1225 Wow those are some amazing temps with a closed case. Mine runs 43deg C with open case and you got 44dec C with closed case. My setup is similar to yours. My setup is CPU AIO 360 at top radiator exhausting out. GPU radiator exhaust to the side of the case. I have intake fans at the bottom of the case to draw in cold air. Is it possible to lower the voltage with Precision X1? Maybe that might allow it to run cooler and keep the clocks higher.
You have to use Afterburner, Precision X1 isn't setup for undervolting. Sounds like your fan setup is about as good as it can get with that case unless you want to swap the CPU radiator to the side as intake, and put the GPU radiator up top as exhaust, just see if that helps with temps. You could also increase the fan speed on the intake fans. And that's not my case, just a picture of an example I found... mine is uh... special lol: Current setup is pretty crazy lookin', and it'll be even more crazy once I get the card vertically mounted on Wednesday. Front (right) intake fans are all EK Vardar EVO RGB fans (that move a lot of air even when relatively quiet at 1400RPM, they ramp up to around 1800RPM when the system is under load to increase the cool air intake amount), and there are also 3 of those EK fans on the GPU radiator as intake... I have since put pull/exhaust fans on the GPU radiator too, as if I didn't already have enough fans, it's sitting at a hefty 20 fans (if you count the GPU's VRM/on board fan).
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ice water
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Re: Extremely Low Kingpin 3090 Score
2021/02/02 04:15:43
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its too weak, try to switch to the LN2 BIOS
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Dabadger84
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Re: Extremely Low Kingpin 3090 Score
2021/02/02 04:54:53
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ice water its too weak, try to switch to the LN2 BIOS
That literally has nothing to do with the problem actually. Increasing power limit is going to improve stock score by more than maybe 50 points, it's about his stock score not being what pretty much every other person is getting with a Kingpin at stock. He's closer now but still lower than he should be, part of it is temperature for sure.
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MuddyPaws73
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Re: Extremely Low Kingpin 3090 Score
2021/04/14 09:14:54
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I have a similar issue but mine are actually lower, around 11K. I did a clean install of the drivers and have plenty of cooling. The only issue I see is that the 3rd 8 pin power is always lower than the other 2 by around 10w. I seem to be getting fair Clocks but low scores. Here is a link to my PR results www.3dmark.com/pr/993738 Don't have enough posts to link directly Here are the results from GPUZ
post edited by MuddyPaws73 - 2021/04/14 09:20:54
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rjbarker
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Re: Extremely Low Kingpin 3090 Score
2021/04/14 10:15:32
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12.5K to 13K is a normal score for OC'd 3080....... - dont run both msi ab and Precision at the same time, in fact I would recommend completely removing one or the other from your OS. (I gave up on the "buggy" Precision X many years ago, perhaps its better, no idea) - dont run any monitoring software during your "run" - disable all background apps during your "run" - If your pushing GPU OC's first find a decent CPU OC (stable enough to get you thru benchmarks). - Ensure you either manually OC your Memory or at the very least ensure to run an appropriate XMP package.(us Memtest to check for stability or P95 Blend) - Update to latest GPU Driver and install only Driver n Physics. - After updating Driver be sure to do a Registry Clean. - Your Board Power Draw is only 380w, have you slid power delivery to max? - Best to run your benchmark after a "clean boot" or fresh boot. - if your running a Gsync monitor make sure Gsync is disabled in nvcp (with mine enabled I lose around 1k pts in most benchmarks. On a side note, after many years of benchmarking I can tell you that periodically you will have + / - 500 pts in any 3DMark score, its perfectly normal. Take a lot of oter scores you see with a grain of salt, many of them are simply "max oc runs" looking for that highest score possible, but most are anything but stable OC's. Just because an OC can blast thru a bunch of benchmarks doesnt mean its at all stable, in fact once gaming your OC can result in freezes...CTD or BSOD, aso other than some 3DMark score, the OC is useless. My signature is prime example.....its simply a benchmark OC....for actual gamining 24/7 use I drop my CPU back down to 5 Ghz (all cores), reducing vcore of course and then drop my 3080 OC down to something reasonable, as in +90 / +600 w 0 extra voltage and power delivery at 118%. Its a custom loop (w 3 radiators) so temps are non issue. If your GPU is getting hot, it will throttle down.
post edited by rjbarker - 2021/04/14 10:20:19
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