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Helpful ReplyCan't get 4k@60Hz / ycbcr444 to work with my new Hisense 43H7C2

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Treytor
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2016/08/12 16:13:12 (permalink)
Hey guys,
 
I recently purchased a Hisense 43H7C2 from Amazon on the prime day sale, and I really like it! I was hoping to use this as my main computer monitor, but unfortunately I can't get chroma 4:4:4 (ycbcr444) to work with my GTX 970. Both the video card and TV support this format, so it should work.
 
If I set the resolution to 3840x2160@60Hz, I can only select ycbcr420 color format as you can see here. This is unacceptable and gives me quite a headache after looking at it for just a few minutes. Text sometimes looks blurry as well.

 
If I bump the refresh rate down to 30hz, I can select RGB color format, which isn't quite ycbcr444, but is acceptable and I'm able to use the screen without getting headaches / blurry text:
 

 
If I bump the resolution down to 1080p, then I can select ycbcr444. But this is obviously not a solution for a 4k display.
 
Did anyone else pick up this TV or one similar and might be able to shed some light on the issue? I contacted Hisense support and am waiting to hear back from them.
 
Thanks!
post edited by Treytor - 2016/08/12 17:31:08
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HeavyHemi
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Re: Can't get 4k@60Hz / ycbcr444 to work with my new Hisense 43H7C2 2016/08/12 17:45:50 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Treytor 2016/08/12 18:28:31
Treytor
Hey guys,

I recently purchased a Hisense 43H7C2 from Amazon on the prime day sale, and I really like it! I was hoping to use this as my main computer monitor, but unfortunately I can't get chroma 4:4:4 (ycbcr444) to work with my GTX 970. Both the video card and TV support this format, so it should work.

If I set the resolution to 3840x2160@60Hz, I can only select ycbcr420 color format as you can see here. This is unacceptable and gives me quite a headache after looking at it for just a few minutes. Text sometimes looks blurry as well.


If I bump the refresh rate down to 30hz, I can select RGB color format, which isn't quite ycbcr444, but is acceptable and I'm able to use the screen without getting headaches / blurry text:



If I bump the resolution down to 1080p, then I can select ycbcr444. But this is obviously not a solution for a 4k display.

Did anyone else pick up this TV or one similar and might be able to shed some light on the issue? I contacted Hisense support and am waiting to hear back from them.

Thanks!




I just looked at the specs of your TV and it does not list UHD or 4:4:4 chroma at 60hz at 4k. It doesn't even list that the HDMI ports are 2.0 which is an absolute requirement. Secondarily, there's no reason you should be using anything other than RGB, and full unless your panel does not support full range. Ycbcr is a compressed format and is not superior to RGB. It is possible your HDMI cable is limiting you as 4:4:4 4K requires an 18Gbps HDMI 2.0 capable cable.
post edited by HeavyHemi - 2016/08/12 17:53:37

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Re: Can't get 4k@60Hz / ycbcr444 to work with my new Hisense 43H7C2 2016/08/12 18:03:10 (permalink)
Why not use sRGB?
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Treytor
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Re: Can't get 4k@60Hz / ycbcr444 to work with my new Hisense 43H7C2 2016/08/12 18:40:28 (permalink)
HeavyHemi
 
I just looked at the specs of your TV and it does not list UHD or 4:4:4 chroma at 60hz at 4k. It doesn't even list that the HDMI ports are 2.0 which is an absolute requirement. Secondarily, there's no reason you should be using anything other than RGB, and full unless your panel does not support full range. Ycbcr is a compressed format and is not superior to RGB. It is possible your HDMI cable is limiting you as 4:4:4 4K requires an 18Gbps HDMI 2.0 capable cable.



Thank you for the reply! You're right that Hisense is a bit lacking on the official documentation regarding this TV, but a representative from Hisense did say on the Amazon page that the TV does support 4k@60Hz with 4:4:4 here
 
I was under the impression that HDMI cables didn't really matter, as the standard is more in the hardware and not the actual cabling. I've tried two cables, but I don't know if either one is rated at 18Gbps...
 
Should I try a new cable?
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Re: Can't get 4k@60Hz / ycbcr444 to work with my new Hisense 43H7C2 2016/08/12 18:42:45 (permalink)
Gunni101st
Why not use sRGB?



I'm not sure what you're asking. The only color format I can choose is YcbCr420 at my desired resolution.
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Re: Can't get 4k@60Hz / ycbcr444 to work with my new Hisense 43H7C2 2016/08/12 18:58:44 (permalink)
Treytor
HeavyHemi
 
I just looked at the specs of your TV and it does not list UHD or 4:4:4 chroma at 60hz at 4k. It doesn't even list that the HDMI ports are 2.0 which is an absolute requirement. Secondarily, there's no reason you should be using anything other than RGB, and full unless your panel does not support full range. Ycbcr is a compressed format and is not superior to RGB. It is possible your HDMI cable is limiting you as 4:4:4 4K requires an 18Gbps HDMI 2.0 capable cable.



Thank you for the reply! You're right that Hisense is a bit lacking on the official documentation regarding this TV, but a representative from Hisense did say on the Amazon page that the TV does support 4k@60Hz with 4:4:4 here
 
I was under the impression that HDMI cables didn't really matter, as the standard is more in the hardware and not the actual cabling. I've tried two cables, but I don't know if either one is rated at 18Gbps...
 
Should I try a new cable?




Yeah, you NEED a HDMI 2.0 cable to support the format. No, not all HDMI cables are created equal.
 
Amazon basics cable, cheap and good: https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-High-Speed-HDMI-Cable-Standard/dp/B014I8SSD0/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1471053574&sr=8-3&keywords=hdmi+2.0 
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Re: Can't get 4k@60Hz / ycbcr444 to work with my new Hisense 43H7C2 2016/08/12 19:10:43 (permalink)
Okay, ordered. Thanks! Would I be able to get 4k@60hz (chroma 4:2:0) on a non HDMI 2.0 cable?
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Re: Can't get 4k@60Hz / ycbcr444 to work with my new Hisense 43H7C2 2016/08/12 19:36:18 (permalink)
Treytor
Okay, ordered. Thanks! Would I be able to get 4k@60hz (chroma 4:2:0) on a non HDMI 2.0 cable?




From what I can see, not 60 Hz (but that's just from 10 minutes of Googling).
 
Does your monitor have any settings, such as a setting to change from HDMI 1.4 to HDMI 2.0, that can be changed?
post edited by arestavo - 2016/08/12 19:42:30
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Treytor
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Re: Can't get 4k@60Hz / ycbcr444 to work with my new Hisense 43H7C2 2016/08/12 20:26:51 (permalink)
arestavo
 
From what I can see, not 60 Hz (but that's just from 10 minutes of Googling).
Does your monitor have any settings, such as a setting to change from HDMI 1.4 to HDMI 2.0, that can be changed?



So there's a chance that the cables I've tried are HDMI 2.0 compatible, because I can get 4k@60hz.

The TV doesn't have any obvious settings like that. It has 4 HDMI inputs, two of which are clearly labeled for 4k@60hz, and I am using one of those. But there's no menu setting that would indicate being able to specify color format.
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HeavyHemi
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Re: Can't get 4k@60Hz / ycbcr444 to work with my new Hisense 43H7C2 2016/08/12 21:37:21 (permalink)
Gunni101st
Why not use sRGB?


He's talking about what he's setting in the Nvidia control panel. There's no option for sRBG.

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Re: Can't get 4k@60Hz / ycbcr444 to work with my new Hisense 43H7C2 2016/08/12 21:51:03 (permalink)
Treytor
arestavo
 
From what I can see, not 60 Hz (but that's just from 10 minutes of Googling).
Does your monitor have any settings, such as a setting to change from HDMI 1.4 to HDMI 2.0, that can be changed?



So there's a chance that the cables I've tried are HDMI 2.0 compatible, because I can get 4k@60hz.

The TV doesn't have any obvious settings like that. It has 4 HDMI inputs, two of which are clearly labeled for 4k@60hz, and I am using one of those. But there's no menu setting that would indicate being able to specify color format.


With inputs like DVD, Blu ray, cable and sat  TV, they use reduced 4:4:2 or lower chroma. The inputs will work at 60hz as that requires less bandwidth. Practically none of the really inexpensive 4K sets support UHD 4:4:4 at 60hz which requires that the TV support it, that your inputs are fully HDMI 2.0 compliant (that the manufactures website doesn't state that it is, is not a good sign) and as I pointed out, a HDMI cable rated at 18Gbps.

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Treytor
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Re: Can't get 4k@60Hz / ycbcr444 to work with my new Hisense 43H7C2 2016/08/15 15:39:19 (permalink)
Just wanted to give an update, I tried a new HDMI cable (that's rated at 18gbps) and I'm still having this problem so that' wasn't the issue.
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Re: Can't get 4k@60Hz / ycbcr444 to work with my new Hisense 43H7C2 2016/08/15 18:25:22 (permalink)
Hmm, that's not a good sign.
 
And you have tried all the other HDMI inputs on the monitor?
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Treytor
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Re: Can't get 4k@60Hz / ycbcr444 to work with my new Hisense 43H7C2 2016/08/15 19:47:35 (permalink)
Yeah I have. Has anyone successfully gotten 4k @ 60hz RGB on a 970?
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Re: Can't get 4k@60Hz / ycbcr444 to work with my new Hisense 43H7C2 2016/08/16 12:03:09 (permalink)
Hi, all 900 series and later support
color type-color-depth-dynamic range
RGB-8bit-limited
RGB-8bit-full (best)
YCBCR 4:2:0-8bit/10bit/12bit-limited
YCBCR 4:4:2-8bit/10bit/12bit-limited
YCBCR 4:4:4-8bit-limited (best)
 
make sure HDMI UHD Color is turned ON in the TV menu settings.
 
there's a cable bandwidth limitation, but looking at your screen which is from an obscure brand and model, only high end 4k screens support YCBCR 444 60hz so if I were you I"d be chasing RGB 8bit limited at 60hz, full is only if your screen is HDR capable and I'm not sure how the processing goes because this is dependent as well on the TV processor (connect box?)
 
in any case just get a quality hdmi 2.0 cable and just get 4k 60hz limited in the resolution panel. in almost every scenario, ifyou don't get further options it's because of the panel only supporting limited options, then it's the cable but almost never due to the graphics card. And yet again, it could be simply the ports and not the card itself.
 
I'm also very dubious with regard to the type of panel you have because you can't cut corners on bleeding edge tech without any compromises because the prices go so high - 8k 60hz needs to be a standard for instance before 4k 120hz becomes commonplace as a new high to chase due to content bandwidth, storage and general limitations even as the latest connector cable versions support it.
 
Without looking further (and without info) on your panel, I'd say that it's a fake UHD 4k using RGBW instead of RGB, then assuming it's not I'll throw shot at the PWM backlighting also on Philips 40 inch monitors (not TV) which doesn't play in the refresh rate but getting UHD picture needs to be attained and then start configuring the refresh rate and so forth. cheers once again
 
 
 
 
post edited by dgmx_ - 2016/08/16 12:51:20
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Re: Can't get 4k@60Hz / ycbcr444 to work with my new Hisense 43H7C2 2016/08/16 12:05:43 (permalink)
btw use the warranty or return policy if the product didn't meet your expectations
post edited by dgmx_ - 2016/08/16 12:52:53
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Treytor
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Re: Can't get 4k@60Hz / ycbcr444 to work with my new Hisense 43H7C2 2016/08/16 13:23:25 (permalink)
Yeah, I'm starting to suspect the TV doesn't fully support RGB (or 4:4:4) at 4k 60hz. For now I am running 30hz for desktop mode which is 4k / RGB. When I game I'm able to do 4k @ 60hz, I just assume the color mode it's using is 4:2:0. This is acceptable to me because I'm not looking at small black and white text like I do on the desktop.
 
It's not ideal, but other than this problem I think the panel looks great. Especially considering I got it new for $280.
 
Thanks for your guys input, I really appreciate it!
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Re: Can't get 4k@60Hz / ycbcr444 to work with my new Hisense 43H7C2 2016/08/16 14:21:09 (permalink)
Before you choose 4k 30hz, you really might want to reconsider.
 
30hz is essentially meant as a refresh rate "downclock" for accurate 24p movies (yet this is achievable in higher refresh rates obviously)
 
Frames per second - Gameplay
<30 FPS Very limited gameplay
30-40 FPS Average yet very playable
40-60 FPS Good gameplay
>60 FPS Best possible gameplay

 
Even if you're only browsing or watching movies, 60hz would be a minimum.
 
Alot of players have great graphics but have 1080p 60hz monitors, for the same price you could get a decent 1440p.
 
It's really your call and preference, I choose 4k 60hz on a native 120hz refresh (240hz advertised, see 4k all you need to know about refresh rates for further info).
 
Yet the consensus is 120hz or 144hz and recently 185hz monitors have shown up in 1440p with or without gsync.
 
Without even considering side tech as gsync or even multi-monitors, SLI and the whole shebang, achieving stable 60hz is standard for a reason.
 
This is also factoring that you have the setup to run stable 60fps and above. I'm not sure what you're running at 30fps on a 970 but it isn't a card or die size (chip size) designed for such a high resolution.
 
Sure enough, it can stand it but even if you're playing slow paced turn based games, it really looks nice but it's not worth it
 
Speaking from experience, I ran the most heavy (understand unoptimized) game aka Total War Attila as Judea for the lulz (great game and best civ) with tons of mods and so forth, layers of frame perfection and motion
 
yet returning to 60fps slaps you in the face like, what are you doing at 30fps? are you living in a slowmo powerpoint pres, do you like that?
 
As much as 185hz may seem like marketing, 30hz is really a sight to behold especially on a screen
 
You need to consider also the content in terms of blowing up a 1080p picture on a 4k resolution is counter-intuitive because the pixel count is nullified


Even the newest Titan X has some reserves with regard to running 4k stable 60fps on some games due to securing 120hz to fast sync that - basically you need some margin and the horsepower (we've at 2ghz stable coreclock is possible, other discussion)
 
Even if you'd be say, a writer or a coder, any professional staring at a screen for long periods really needs to be careful with their eyesight let alone with what they're looking at can produce, and what it does produce
 
 
 
 
 
It's your choice, nowadays alot of graphic card owners have the horsepower but don't have the display
 
You're going the other way round in pushing 4k for 4k's sake, but don't get bedazzled or overhyped from your purchase.
 
You can get a good 1440p screen I'd assume and even if you still keep this screen, consider the monitor you used to have and multi that using a TV in the background
 
Try using that 4k at 30hz for long periods of time and how you feel, seriously this tech is sometimes so new that it isn't ready yet - having HDR on windows is super bright that its ridiculous for instance
 
same goes for VR in the current state, I wouldn't recommend it for extensive periods of time due to vergence_accomodation_conflict, it's always subjective
 
anyway take care of your eyes and consider getting a 1440p or multimonitoring that, just have caution and be advised on a personal note
 
 
post edited by dgmx_ - 2016/08/16 14:27:56
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Treytor
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Re: Can't get 4k@60Hz / ycbcr444 to work with my new Hisense 43H7C2 2017/01/07 08:44:13 (permalink)
I just wanted to update this post and say that Hisense have updated the firmware on this TV, and I'm now able to get 4k @ 60hz with full RGB gamut.
 
Thanks Hisense!
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somethingc00l
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Re: Can't get 4k@60Hz / ycbcr444 to work with my new Hisense 43H7C2 2017/01/07 14:18:23 (permalink)
Oh my dear god you people there is no such thing as an HDMI 2.0 cable. Stop telling people to buy them to fix problems as there is no such thing.
 
Educate yourself, it takes 5 seconds of Google searching: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#Cables
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Re: Can't get 4k@60Hz / ycbcr444 to work with my new Hisense 43H7C2 2017/01/07 14:22:21 (permalink)
somethingc00l
Oh my dear god you people there is no such thing as an HDMI 2.0 cable. Stop telling people to buy them to fix problems as there is no such thing.
 
Educate yourself, it takes 5 seconds of Google searching: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#Cables


Finding the Right Cable  HDMI 2.0 FAQ  HDMI 2.0a FAQ  2.1  Standards Link 
 
January 4, 2017 
Higher video resolutions and Dynamic HDR highlight the new advanced features for the HDMI® eco-system
Las Vegas, Nevada – January 4, 2017 – HDMI Forum, Inc. today announced the upcoming release of Version 2.1 of the HDMI Specification. This latest HDMI Specification supports a range of Higher Video Resolutions and refresh rates including 8K60 and 4K120, Dynamic HDR, and increased bandwidth with a new 48G cable. Version 2.1 of the HDMI Specification is backward compatible with earlier versions of the Specification, and was developed by the HDMI Forum’s Technical Working Group whose members represent some of the world’s leading manufacturers of consumer electronics, personal computers, mobile devices, cables and components.
“This new release of the Specification offers a broad range of advanced features for enhancing the consumer entertainment experience, as well as providing robust solutions to the commercial AV sector,” said Robert Blanchard of Sony Electronics, president of the HDMI Forum. “This is part of the HDMI Forum’s continuing mission to develop specifications for the HDMI eco-system that meet the growing demand for compelling, high-performance and exciting features.” HDMI Specification 2.1 Features Include:
  • Higher Video Resolutions support a range of higher resolutions and faster refresh rates including 8K60Hz and 4K120Hz for immersive viewing and smooth fast-action detail.
  • Dynamic HDR ensures every moment of a video is displayed at its ideal values for depth, detail, brightness, contrast, and wider color gamuts—on a scene-by-scene or even a frame-by-frame basis.
  • 48G cables enable up to 48Gbps bandwidth for uncompressed HDMI 2.1 feature support including 8K video with HDR. The cable is backwards compatible with earlier versions of the HDMI Specification and can be used with existing HDMI devices.
  • eARC supports the most advanced audio formats such as object-based audio, and enables advanced audio signal control capabilities including device auto-detect.
  • Game Mode VRR features variable refresh rate, which enables a 3D graphics processor to display the image at the moment it is rendered for more fluid and better detailed gameplay, and for reducing or eliminating lag, stutter, and frame tearing.
The new specification will be available to all HDMI 2.0 Adopters and they will be notified when it is released early in Q2 2017.
 

About HDMI Forum, Inc.

                                       The HDMI Forum, Inc. is comprised of the world’s leading manufacturers of consumer electronics, personal computers, mobile devices, cables and components. An open trade association, The HDMI Forum’s mission is to foster broader industry participation in the development of future versions of the HDMI specification and to further expand the ecosystem of interoperable, HDMI-enabled products. The HDMI Forum currently has a membership of over 80 companies.                                    
HDMI 2.1 Specification was developed by the HDMI Forum’s Technical Working Group.
For more information, please visit www.hdmiforum.org.
post edited by bcavnaugh - 2017/01/07 14:36:27

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#21
EliteLurker
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Re: Can't get 4k@60Hz / ycbcr444 to work with my new Hisense 43H7C2 2017/01/08 20:19:42 (permalink)
Ok so I got AMH a399u - 39" 4k screen that does 4:4:4 throw DisplayPort - as noted by the reviewers the DP cable it came with is cheap and would only do 30hrz 4K - got a decent DP cable boom: 4k 60hrz 4:4:4 and that was on my GTX 970.   I now have 980ti as the 970 wasn't quite up to the task in some games.
 So yeah... get a good cable and go from there.  

EDIT: missed your post - glad you got it working
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HeavyHemi
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Re: Can't get 4k@60Hz / ycbcr444 to work with my new Hisense 43H7C2 2017/01/08 21:21:22 (permalink)
somethingc00l
Oh my dear god you people there is no such thing as an HDMI 2.0 cable. Stop telling people to buy them to fix problems as there is no such thing.
 
Educate yourself, it takes 5 seconds of Google searching: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#Cables


Technically true. However, you do need an HDMI cable rated for 18Gb/sec which is a requirement of the spec. It is a common cause when people cannot get UHD 4:4:4  @ 60hz or have flickering or sync issues. It is one of the first things to check if all of your other items are capable, right?

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somethingc00l
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Re: Can't get 4k@60Hz / ycbcr444 to work with my new Hisense 43H7C2 2017/01/09 15:32:09 (permalink)
HeavyHemi
 
Technically true. However, you do need an HDMI cable rated for 18Gb/sec which is a requirement of the spec. It is a common cause when people cannot get UHD 4:4:4  @ 60hz or have flickering or sync issues. It is one of the first things to check if all of your other items are capable, right?

18 Gb/s (high speed/ category 2) cables have been standard since 2008. I doubt you can even find a category 1 cable for sale these days.
I agree that checking your cable is a cheap check if you've verified everything else, but failed cables are fairly rare in my experience, and regardless then new cable to buy is not an "HDMI 2.0" cable, just a regular old HDMI. Calling it an HDMI 2.0 cable indicated to people not in the know that there is a product that exists with that name and they might upgrade even if not needed.
#24
HeavyHemi
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Re: Can't get 4k@60Hz / ycbcr444 to work with my new Hisense 43H7C2 2017/01/09 17:20:41 (permalink)
somethingc00l
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Technically true. However, you do need an HDMI cable rated for 18Gb/sec which is a requirement of the spec. It is a common cause when people cannot get UHD 4:4:4  @ 60hz or have flickering or sync issues. It is one of the first things to check if all of your other items are capable, right?

18 Gb/s (high speed/ category 2) cables have been standard since 2008. I doubt you can even find a category 1 cable for sale these days.
I agree that checking your cable is a cheap check if you've verified everything else, but failed cables are fairly rare in my experience, and regardless then new cable to buy is not an "HDMI 2.0" cable, just a regular old HDMI. Calling it an HDMI 2.0 cable indicated to people not in the know that there is a product that exists with that name and they might upgrade even if not needed.


Nah...the 18Gb standard didn't exist until HDMI 2.0 came out. What they've managed to do is increase the bandwidth via hardware and firmware to increase the signaling rate over the same HDMI High speed.
It's true, failed cables are not usually the issue. It cheap cables not being able to reliably work at 4K. They work just fine at 1080p. There's a similar issue using cheap DP cables. So...it seems common sense to advise folks if they are having issues, to get a cable that states it's rated for 18Gb...Philips makes some nice low profile ones.... If you're really out there...
 


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