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Antec Kuhler H2O 920

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rafale
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Re:Antec Kuhler H2O 920 2011/04/21 22:13:07 (permalink)
@Grow
Edited. Yeah you were the only one who did not have the details on his modrig. Sorry, I meant to skip you from the list but just pasted the whole thing. How the hell can you get these clocks with such a low voltage? I am so jealous!

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Re:Antec Kuhler H2O 920 2011/04/22 11:39:09 (permalink)
The temps you mentioned... was this with the fans set to "extreme"? Also how loud it is REALLY when the fans are cranking at 100%?

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rafale
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Re:Antec Kuhler H2O 920 2011/04/22 22:01:31 (permalink)
Mister, I am not using the stock fans... I have my AP-29 connected a my Lamptron fan controller so it is as loud as it can be at 3000rpm. My TY 140 is completely silent though at 1500RPM connected to the PWM header on the 920.

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Re:Antec Kuhler H2O 920 2011/04/23 15:55:29 (permalink)
Did you ever try one of the stock fans in place of the TY 140?
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Re:Antec Kuhler H2O 920 2011/04/23 20:17:35 (permalink)
Nope... I didn't.

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Re:Antec Kuhler H2O 920 2011/04/24 19:55:03 (permalink)
Question:
 
I've read reports stating that the main issues with the Corsair H70 are the installation ring (makes for a difficult install with no "positive feel" once completed properly), and the lackluster surface of the copper cooling plate. Apparently the cooling capacity of the thicker radiator (over the H60) is hindered by the uneven contact patch between CPU and said cooling plate. Now while I am sure one can lap this thing to get a "mirror finish"... I am more wondering how the Antec unit compares in these respects. 
 
Any feedback? 

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Re:Antec Kuhler H2O 920 2011/04/24 21:21:28 (permalink)
I don't know where you read all that. The H60 kind of sucks. The only thing that is partially positive about it is the mounting mechanism which is straight down and not a down and twist like all the Asetek units. On the other hand the Asetek mechanism offers much more flexibility for the orientation of the tubes since one is not restricted to the 4 cardinal points. It is possible that the contact surface on the H50/H70 series is not as good as on the Coolit units (H60, Vantage) I can attest that my Vantage indeed had a nicer surface than my H50 but it had no impact on performance since they both performed within 1 degree of each other and I don't see how the H60 can get even close to the H70 in terms of performance. So again I don't know where you read that. I think from all the different reviews I have read they would estimate them to be 5C apart in my setup. Also the H70 performs the same as the Antec 620 when used in push pull with two fans. The 920 is just 4C cooler.
 
With my fan setup my hotest core results would look like this from what I am reading relative comparisons I got on the net. I have owned 4 of 6 units. I just stop runs when the CPU gets to 90C and I call it fail.
 
@ 4.2GHz 1.33V
Asetek Corsair H50: 85C 
Coolit Vantage: 86C
Coolit Corsair H60: 82C (estimate)
Asetek Corsair H70: 77C (estimate)
Asetek Antec 620: 76C
Asetek Antec 920: 72C
 
 
@4.36GHz 1.38V
 
Asetec Corsair H50: Fail
Coolit Vantage: Fail
Coolit Corsair H60: Fail (estimate)
Asetek Corsair H70: 81C (estimate)
Asetek Antec 620: 81C
Asetek Antec 920: 77C
 
@4.5GHz 1.41V
Asetek Corsair H50: Fail
Coolit Vantage: Fail
Coolit  Corsair H60: Fail (estimate)
Asetek Corsair H70: 85C (estimate)
Asetek Antec 620: 85C
Asetek Antec 920: 81C
 
post edited by rafale - 2011/04/24 21:24:31

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Re:Antec Kuhler H2O 920 2011/04/24 23:58:38 (permalink)
Awesome information rafale, I'm sure that eill help many people who are considering an AIO solution.



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Re:Antec Kuhler H2O 920 2011/04/25 09:08:56 (permalink)
Yeah my first BR!
 
Note that these testing were with the stock TIM but never with the stock fans. I used a GT AP29 for push and a TR 140 to pull.
Also note that the Antec and H70 have a 20fpi radiator Vs 16fpi for the coolit and H50 units which makes them perform better with my setup because I am getting more pressure from my gentle typhoon than with stock fans.
post edited by rafale - 2011/04/25 10:32:14

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Re:Antec Kuhler H2O 920 2011/04/25 09:22:43 (permalink)
Congratulations on the blue ribbon.
 
Is the stock paste on the 920 different than what comes on the H70?
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Re:Antec Kuhler H2O 920 2011/04/25 09:34:29 (permalink)
ViperBlackEdition

Congratulations on the blue ribbon.

Is the stock paste on the 920 different than what comes on the H70?

 
The Kuhler thermal pastes from what I hear is Shin Etsu X23, but a type you won't find on shelves. Similar to what H70/60/50 uses, all Shin Etsu... either way they are amongst the best TIM IMO, just short of IC Diamond and Indigo Extreme. I don't like ICD anymore since it tends to mess with the heatsink and CPU surfaces.
 
AND congrats to Rafale, bout time a knowledgeable person on here got a BR hehe...
 
Question... when push/pull fans are different, you use the stronger one for push right? What happens when you turn them around etc? Like use the weaker one to push and stronger one to pull.......


“The fascination of flight can't be expressed with words. But it really lies beyond the capabilities of human endeavor. Once you've experienced it, you'll never be able to forget it.” - Friedrich Oblessor
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Re:Antec Kuhler H2O 920 2011/04/25 10:57:27 (permalink)
Here is how it works. (I am the type who would take a piece of chalk and draw on a board when I explain things so forgive me if I try to draw something with alphanumeric characters here.)
 
You should always have the strongest fan pushing if you have two fans:
 
P1 -> Fan 1 -> shroud P2 -> Rad -> P3 -> fan 2 -> P4
 
Assuming you are setup in exhaust, P4 is the atmospheric pressure, P1 is the pressure inside your case.
Obviously a positive pressure in the case help.
The fan and the rad creates a pressure change. The rad decreases it (resistance), the fan increases it. 
In order to maximise flow accross the rad you want P2 to be maximal and P4 to P3 to be minimal. 
The main reason for a stronger fan 1 is that you may end up with P2 being low and P3 being about the same as P4 if you use a weak fan and then? What does Fan 2 do? it will try to create a lower pressure between the fan and the rad. If it is very strong then the pressure becomes low enough that it will decrease P2...
Which normally should be higher than P1 but P1 is fixed (large volume)! So what if P2 is smaller than P1... Your fan 1 is not doing anything.
The other problem is that typical fans are more designed to push than to suck. You can feel it by putting your hand in front and behind a running fan and you will much more flow on the push side. This is more of a directionality of the flow than anything. When going through the fan the air tends to go straight out while going into it, the air comes from all directions. So they are not very good at creating localized negative pressure.

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Re:Antec Kuhler H2O 920 2011/04/25 11:37:45 (permalink)
For the positive air pressure part... let's say I have a combined of 220CFM intake (110 x 2), and then 83 + 110CFM exhaust (83 being an AP-29). Let's say I have 2 x AP-29s in push pull exhaust, is that still a total of 83CFM?
 
What if push pull fans were different, let's say the stronger one is in push and the weaker one is in pull... and they both exhaust. Will the total CFM going out be the one in push (stronger one)?
 
Just trying to maintain my positive air pressure, that's all


“The fascination of flight can't be expressed with words. But it really lies beyond the capabilities of human endeavor. Once you've experienced it, you'll never be able to forget it.” - Friedrich Oblessor
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Re:Antec Kuhler H2O 920 2011/04/25 11:57:13 (permalink)
The CFM rating of the fans are under certain assumptions: They are taken at a given differential pressure. They are only theoritical. In real life, you are always pushing against something or drawing from somewhere and there is always a pressure differential. Fans come with a characteristic usually showing at a given RPM the air flow as a function of pressure differential. I am not sure what these CFMs are taken at. I assume that there is
an industry standard I can probably look it up when I have time.
 
In your case, I would not worry about it. You will have positive pressure. Your AP29 will not be pulling the 83CFM because of the rad in behind it.
 

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Re:Antec Kuhler H2O 920 2011/04/25 12:28:17 (permalink)
Sweet... in my HAF X I plan it to have it like this...
 
Front 200mm intake - 110CFM
Side 200mm GPU intake - 110CFM
 
Single top 200mm exhaust - 110CFM
No need for that second 200mm top fan slot - 0CFM
Push pull exhaust AP-29s on Kuhler 620 - 83CFM (less than that according to you because of radiator)
 
I guess I'm set


“The fascination of flight can't be expressed with words. But it really lies beyond the capabilities of human endeavor. Once you've experienced it, you'll never be able to forget it.” - Friedrich Oblessor
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rafale
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Re:Antec Kuhler H2O 920 2011/04/25 12:40:10 (permalink)
For fun if you want to check. put a sheet of paper above the second fan slot at the top and see if the paper gets sucked in or gets blown up... It will tell you if you have positive pressure. 

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Re:Antec Kuhler H2O 920 2011/04/25 13:39:30 (permalink)
rafale

For fun if you want to check. put a sheet of paper above the second fan slot at the top and see if the paper gets sucked in or gets blown up... It will tell you if you have positive pressure. 

 
LOL I've done this before, I use a feather though much lighter


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Re:Antec Kuhler H2O 920 2011/04/26 00:38:12 (permalink)
Just reinstalled with Indigo extreme with a room temp of 20C...
Results:
 
920 with Indigo Extreme: 69,71,65,74,75,71 Room 20C
As a reminder of my previous results:
920: 77,74,73,75,82,77 Room 24C
620: 80, 77, 75, 79, 85, 80  Room 23C
It looks like the mounting method creates the core to core difference and the fact that the Indigo Extreme mounts differently makes the center core hotter. I might have not gotten the perfect reflow as Core 4 is not as good. accounting for the room temperature difference, My temps have gone changed by: -4,+1,-4,+3,-3,-3.
I think the sensor on my 2nd core is out of calibration as it displays nonsense at idle and I think the IX has the potential of decreasing temperature by 3C across the board...
post edited by rafale - 2011/04/26 00:43:46

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Re:Antec Kuhler H2O 920 2011/04/26 01:48:56 (permalink)
Nice, how easy is Indigo Extreme to apply and install? Especially the push down and twist method?
 
Compared Indigo Extreme to ICD and Shin Etsu, how would you say they compare?


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Re:Antec Kuhler H2O 920 2011/04/26 02:55:38 (permalink)
Update! I reflowed it again. My room temperature went down to 19C. (I left the window open and my temps went down to 67, 68, 64, 71, 74, 67 or a drop of -5, -1, -4, +1, -3, -5 if you take the room temperature into account. It is much better than before. The water temperature dropped about as much as the room temperature but the difference between the CPU temp and the water has reduced.
 
I posted about TIMs before where I have tested IX, ICD, Coolaboratory liquid ultra and Shin Etsu X23 7783D and G751 on the H50. My results concur exactly in terms of trend with Skinee's with his watercooling setup although my test was not nearly as thorough as his.
http://skinneelabs.com/indigo-xtreme/4/
 
I found that the IX was 1C cooler than the liquid ultra which was 2C~3C cooler than the 7783D which was 1 degree better than the ICD which itself was within noise of the G751. I was not overclocking as high at the time and I was testing at temps in the mid 60s.
 
The installation is a bit tricky. I followed Asetek_Stu's instruction by not doing the push and twist. Instead I dropped the waterblock with the bracket resting on it straight down on the CPU with one hand and a screwdriver in the other hand trying not to move the cooler once it was on the CPU. It worked pretty well I have to say.

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Re:Antec Kuhler H2O 920 2011/04/26 03:16:38 (permalink)
rafale

Update! I reflowed it again. My room temperature went down to 19C. (I left the window open and my temps went down to 67, 68, 64, 71, 74, 67 or a drop of -5, -1, -4, +1, -3, -5 if you take the room temperature into account. It is much better than before. The water temperature dropped about as much as the room temperature but the difference between the CPU temp and the water has reduced.

I posted about TIMs before where I have tested IX, ICD, Coolaboratory liquid ultra and Shin Etsu X23 7783D and G751 on the H50. My results concur exactly in terms of trend with Skinee's with his watercooling setup although my test was not nearly as thorough as his.
http://skinneelabs.com/indigo-xtreme/4/

I found that the IX was 1C cooler than the liquid ultra which was 2C~3C cooler than the 7783D which was 1 degree better than the ICD which itself was within noise of the G751. I was not overclocking as high at the time and I was testing at temps in the mid 60s.

The installation is a bit tricky. I followed Asetek_Stu's instruction by not doing the push and twist. Instead I dropped the waterblock with the bracket resting on it straight down on the CPU with one hand and a screwdriver in the other hand trying not to move the cooler once it was on the CPU. It worked pretty well I have to say.


They need to put his information into their manuals. The process is really not that hard to pull off. I myself never liked the twist application.
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Re:Antec Kuhler H2O 920 2011/04/26 08:39:26 (permalink)
Stu said something about a video on their website... I have not looked at it yet, neither do I feel like I have to but it could be informative for some.

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Re:Antec Kuhler H2O 920 2011/04/26 10:10:50 (permalink)
It'd be kinda hard for me to do the straight down and screw in method for the CPU block. I don't use the adhesives that come with the backplate (had bad experience with those on my H50). I know it holds the backplate to the mobo for you so you don't have to worry about the backplate falling back out when you install the block, but when you change CPU coolers the backplate becomes almost impossible to take off, unless you take extreme measures which I don't like doing (void mobo warranty much?)
 
I'd probably have to end up putting my foot under the case while installing to hold the backplate, and at the same time do the CPU block mounting with both hands, one holding the screw


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Re:Antec Kuhler H2O 920 2011/04/26 10:21:02 (permalink)
One other thing you can do is to sit the board on a flat surface outside the case when mounting. I have removed a lot of these backplates and I agree, I do not use the adhesive anymore. My case happens not to have the cutout for the CPU lined up with my board so it holds the backplate just fine.

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Re:Antec Kuhler H2O 920 2011/04/26 10:38:31 (permalink)
rafale

One other thing you can do is to sit the board on a flat surface outside the case when mounting. I have removed a lot of these backplates and I agree, I do not use the adhesive anymore. My case happens not to have the cutout for the CPU lined up with my board so it holds the backplate just fine.

 
Ahhh why didn't I think of that LOL!!
 
I get so lazy and spoiled that I MUST install the backplate in the case cuz the case has a mobo cutout


“The fascination of flight can't be expressed with words. But it really lies beyond the capabilities of human endeavor. Once you've experienced it, you'll never be able to forget it.” - Friedrich Oblessor
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Re:Antec Kuhler H2O 920 2011/04/26 10:49:27 (permalink)
Haha, put the case down on its side and support the CPU cutout location with a piece of foam or cardboard. You will be fine!

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Re:Antec Kuhler H2O 920 2011/04/26 14:41:04 (permalink)
I just folded up a towel and laid the case down on it while holding the backplate in place.Worked fine.


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Re:Antec Kuhler H2O 920 2011/04/26 19:36:40 (permalink)
Hog54

I just folded up a towel and laid the case down on it while holding the backplate in place.Worked fine.

 



“The fascination of flight can't be expressed with words. But it really lies beyond the capabilities of human endeavor. Once you've experienced it, you'll never be able to forget it.” - Friedrich Oblessor
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Re:Antec Kuhler H2O 920 2011/04/26 23:38:08 (permalink)
rafale
 I don't know where you read all that. The H60 kind of sucks. The only thing that is partially positive about it is the mounting mechanism which is straight down and not a down and twist like all the Asetek units. On the other hand the Asetek mechanism offers much more flexibility for the orientation of the tubes since one is not restricted to the 4 cardinal points. It is possible that the contact surface on the H50/H70 series is not as good as on the Coolit units (H60, Vantage) I can attest that my Vantage indeed had a nicer surface than my H50 but it had no impact on performance since they both performed within 1 degree of each other and I don't see how the H60 can get even close to the H70 in terms of performance. So again I don't know where you read that.

 
http://www.guru3d.com/article/corsair-h70-review/5
 
"Now it’s time for the standard mirror test. As you can see, H70’s base-plate doesn’t reflect 100% (in this case this coin). For better results, the surface needs to be completely even. Unfortunately, there are some noticeable points which could have been given more attention... 
 
...As you observe the efficiency results, the thick H70 radiator, even though is it a 120mm one, is on top of all the others. That means that if our CPU has a temp of 100 C degrees, the H70’s radiator can absorb the 87% of it, while Balder’s heatsink although placed at the bottom of the chart it absorbs 81%. Why does the Balder have similar CPU temps to H70? This measurement helped us understand that there are no any issues with the radiator since it has the highest heat efficiency. Hence, there is another faulty parameter. And that might be the copper coldplate."
 
 

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Re:Antec Kuhler H2O 920 2011/04/27 01:13:00 (permalink)
ok I never owned the H70 and these guys may have had a pre release version. I don't know. It is the only review I have ever read that had such a bad cold plate. My H50 did not look nearly this bad. Both the antec I have are perfectly shiny though. Better than what I could have obtained by lapping it myself. The only thing noticeable are a couple of light circular grooves at a given radius which I think are polishing residues. 

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