herocrusher
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Re: 1080 Ti Hybrid fan direction and case cooling
Monday, March 27, 2017 9:58 PM
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ksgnow2010
For AIOs (or any other water cooling build) the liquid cooling reservoir has to be ABOVE the pump. This ensures that the air is always above the pump and keeps it out of the pump. If air gets into the pump, it will cause cavitation...this is bad (and noisy). Additionally, the liquid in AIO systems is also a lubricant for the pump and pump seals.
In the OP picture (as the thread was slightly hijacked - hehe), the OP has his radiator mounted correctly. The pump (on his CPU block) is below the "top" of the radiator. Air will rise in the system to the top of the radiator. Additionally, the hoses that go back to the AIO block are on the bottom of the radiator, and will only suck coolant. A possible place for air to get trapped is in the "bend" of the tubes as they go into the CPU block. However, this would be temporary as the liquid pressure would eventually push the air to the top of the radiator.
Now, in the second picture (with the large NZXT radiator), I raised a note of caution here as the tubes for liquid circulation were mounted at the top of the radiator...above the CPU block. As the pump is still about "Center" on the radiator, this will most likely be OK. However, there is a definite probability that the hoses could suck in air, as the air will rise to the highest point in the system. Best practice would be to mount the tubes at the bottom to "guarantee" that the pump is always getting solid coolant flow.
As far as for running intake through a radiator...this is fine and there is nothing wrong with it. The tradeoff is simple:
1. Radiator as intake:
- Lower component temperature (i.e. GPU or CPU) and higher system temperatures
2. Radiator as exhaust:
- Lower system temperatures and higher component temperatures
Any cooling system can be broken down to a simple metric called delta-T. Basically, the cooling system can only cool the component a certain amount higher than its intake air temperature. For AIO systems, this is typically around 20 C at full load. One thing that you have to remember is that in electronics, heat creates more heat. So, as a high power component gets hotter, its power dissipating members get hotter, which cause them to dissipate more power. This continues until thermal equilibrium is reached.
My personal experience is that I have better overall performance running my radiators as intakes for the following reasons:
- Cooler air cooling the highest power components (based on delta-T, they stay the coolest)
- There is always "good airflow" to the highest power components (if you put radiators as exhaust, the airflow is dependent upon case airflow as well as the fan speed...cases can be very restrictive...especially in the "top left" corner.)
If you are not sure, run an experiment in the different configurations. Have your "figure of merit" be component temperatures as well as internal case temperatures. For my particular system (5820K & 2xTitan X Pascal...all heavily overclocked...Corsair Air 740 case), I have 3 120 mm AIO units all running as intake (push/pull fans), 2 140 mm fans on bottom as intake, 2 140 mm fans on top as exhaust, and 1 140 mm fan in back as exhaust. Airflow through the radiators to cool the ~750 W of power dissipation is deterministic and only a function of fan speed. Airflow is achieved in the case through the extra bottom intakes and all air is pushed out the top and back. Both internal case temperatures and CPU/GPU temperatures were the coolest this way.
Cheers!
Well written... This makes me want to experiment with my rads both as intake 1 rear and one front then and add 2 exhaust out the top.. However, having no drive bays and 3 120's pumping cool air into my case... internal temps are so low I'm not sure if I would see any difference. I may have to try it out when i get my Hybrid kit and 1080 ti just to test the different configs like your were saying. I'm thinking with a 1 radiator setup I would want to exhaust to avoid the air cooled GPU sucking in all the hot air.. but with 2 rads (GPU and CPU) maybe intake would be nice for dropping component temps and letting internal temps rise a bit. It's give and take for sure. Either way.. @TRC you would want that honeycomb on the top for the extra fan.. whether you decide to exhaust or intake. Sounds like you might be able to just add an extra exhaust fan to the top and keep your intake rads for less hassle.. Also on a side note... I feel that top/back exhausting config is better for dust.. In taking seems to cake the rads with dust like no tomorrow... could be placebo I guess. Cheers!
post edited by herocrusher - Monday, March 27, 2017 10:38 PM
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khatin23
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Re: 1080 Ti Hybrid fan direction and case cooling
Monday, March 27, 2017 11:43 PM
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TRClark911
herocrusher
The case looks nice it just doesn't look that friendly for Radiators.
Living in Washington I'm sure you are good either way.
But as far as the best cooling setup goes... even if you reversed the air flow you would have 3 exhaust and one intake when you get your hybrid.
I guess you could just keep it as is with the 2 intake on front and 2 exhaust on back.
Just food for thought on your next build.. your temps are good so its not a big deal.
I ran my gpu rad as intake for 2 years and had no problems but it did raise my CPU and case temps.
Agree with you there... not really radiator friendly. At the time of purchase I liked the looks of it and the tempered glass. Will definitely research better now that I've gotten a taste of liquid cooling and how it works. This was first build in 16 years and I've been out of the loop.
I totally get the whole "bringing warm air thru the rad into the case" thing but it's just not as big of a concern being here vs being in a place like Texas where it's hot and humid.
Definitely will remember this convo for the next build. Thanks!
khatin23
TRC-
sounds good to me...
as far as temps, being in climate controlled environment myself, i get it but.... you are basically running a heater inside a ventilated closed space... so.... maybe not really a BIG deal, but if you are going to go through the effort to water cool for an extra temp drop why compromise it by adding heat back in? just one man's perspective.
yes, since it looks like you have the room, i would add two more fans to your radiator (push/pull config)... I never bothered/cared or thought it would make any real difference, but then... after 6 years with my first h100i the fins clogged and i bought another one.. i had the fans from the first one and thought.. wth why not, worst case scenario it's loud and doesn't make a difference and i take them back off... I was amazed how much cooler and quieter things run when i'm pushing my system... I used to run similar temps to what you are getting and haven't seen anything over 62 since, and that was after 12 hours of 95 prime. Not only did it run with a significantly lower high temp, but the quiet factor really was significant. I never realized how irritating the fans were until i noticed that i couldn't hear them anymore. Personally I'll never do it any other way again, and when I installed the hybrid gpu I automatically installed it push/pull without giving it a second thought.
Also, looking at your config, given that the pump would end up above the tubing when you flip it, i would think that the best config for your 240 rad would be to either put the box on it's side with the cpu-out/rad-in hose on the bottom (it will be the hotter of the two), or to drill a continued honeycomb vent into the top of your box and mount the rad there. short of that i'm not seeing a way to properly mount it in that case. (i had a similar situation when i switched to the 240 rad which is why i no longer have my old case)
Yeah... it's admittedly not the cleanest looking build, but i never thought i would be posting a pic ;) lol
built for speed, quiet and cool.
Those wires! Haha
You know something though... I liked the idea about the honeycomb drilling in the top of the box. I actually work in a machine shop and could waterjet a template hole pattern and then use it to drill holes in the top of the case and mount the rad up top...
or I could either cut sections out of the top and replace them or just replace the entire top of the case with a piece of stainless perforated material similar to this...
 
Good for airflow no?
The possibilities are endless and you gave me some ideas. I totally get what you are saying about going through the effort of water cooling and then adding warm air into the case... as I said given my location it wasn't a big concern.
Still, I'm all about optimum performance and cooling and I actually like your last idea the best... modifying the top of the case as I just mentioned... moving the rad up top... gpu cooler in the rear... and cool air coming in the front. Would you still add 2 more fans to the rad with this scenario?
Thanks for the input guys!!
Now you're cooking with fire!... drop that in the top to move the 240 up (and forward enough to make room in the rear for the gpu cooler), and keep the dual in from the front with the filter. and yes.. still add the extra 2 fans so that you have a push/pull. always push pull when possible.
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Wingless Wonder
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Re: 1080 Ti Hybrid fan direction and case cooling
Tuesday, March 28, 2017 4:22 AM
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That pic of perforated metal isn't ideal for air flow. I took a look at my old Cooler Master HAF 932 case top, which has a mesh top with a similar pattern but the metal has a much thinner cross section (panel thickness) and the holes are larger. At first glance, a drilled pattern looks like it'll be free-flowing but you have to look at the surface area that surrounds the drilled holes - all that area is blocking air flow if fans are mounted to that drilled panel.
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