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any of you tried using a separate physx card?

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sethleigh
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2016/06/24 17:38:38 (permalink)
I just pulled my 960 SSC 4gb out of my machine today and put in the 1080 SC.
 
I'm thinking of putting the 960 back in and setting it up as a dedicated physx card. I've got two or three games that actually use physx. In my Firestrike scores the 960 was performing about the same as the 1080 SC in physics, so I'm thinking this could be quite a good setup.
 
Has anyone else tried this? I should have tried it sometime this weekend. I'll return and report.

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    HeavyHemi
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    Re: any of you tried using a separate physx card? 2016/06/24 17:43:13 (permalink)
    sethleigh
    I just pulled my 960 SSC 4gb out of my machine today and put in the 1080 SC.
     
    I'm thinking of putting the 960 back in and setting it up as a dedicated physx card. I've got two or three games that actually use physx. In my Firestrike scores the 960 was performing about the same as the 1080 SC in physics, so I'm thinking this could be quite a good setup.
     
    Has anyone else tried this? I should have tried it sometime this weekend. I'll return and report.


    Physics in 3DMark Firestrike are run on the  CPU.  Games like the Batman series which make significant use of GPU PhysX effects will probably see a decent gain. It might make the difference between maintaining a minimum of 60 FPS depending upon your resolution and the rest of your system.

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    sethleigh
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    Re: any of you tried using a separate physx card? 2016/06/24 17:49:32 (permalink)
    Hmm. I have Batman Arkham Origins and Asylum, though I've never played either. I may try this out just to see how the 960 as dedicated Physx card does. I also just purchased Witcher 3, which apparently uses physx. I'll give that a try and let you know how it works out.
     
     

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    the_Scarlet_one
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    Re: any of you tried using a separate physx card? 2016/06/24 17:50:19 (permalink)
    Physics in Firestrike is cpu bound, it isn't physx. They are completely different entities, hence the different spelling and the same score when you switched Gpu's.

    Sorry, didn't refresh before posting, so I was late.
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    sethleigh
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    Re: any of you tried using a separate physx card? 2016/06/24 17:56:20 (permalink)
    I read some stuff online where guys had bought a 980 to upgrade from a 650, and then kept the 650 in as a dedicated physx card. They saw serious performance gains using the 980 for graphics only and 650 for the physx, vs. using the 980 for all of it.
     
    That's what's making me wonder how well the 960 would serve as the dedicated physx card for the 1080. Either tonight or tomorrow morning I mean to find out.

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    HeavyHemi
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    Re: any of you tried using a separate physx card? 2016/06/24 18:04:27 (permalink)
    sethleigh
    Hmm. I have Batman Arkham Origins and Asylum, though I've never played either. I may try this out just to see how the 960 as dedicated Physx card does. I also just purchased Witcher 3, which apparently uses physx. I'll give that a try and let you know how it works out.
     
     


    I'm doing another play through of Arkham Asylum at 4K with every setting maxed and maintaining over 60 FPS min frame rates. It's almost like an entirely different game running it at that level of visual fidelity.

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    stalinx20
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    Re: any of you tried using a separate physx card? 2016/06/24 18:16:51 (permalink)
    It may not be a bad idea for Nvidia to make their own PC benchmarking tool (or do they have it already, just not as popular?) which will utilize PhysX and take advantage of a secondary card.

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    sethleigh
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    Re: any of you tried using a separate physx card? 2016/06/24 18:28:57 (permalink)
    HeavyHemi
    sethleigh
    Hmm. I have Batman Arkham Origins and Asylum, though I've never played either. I may try this out just to see how the 960 as dedicated Physx card does. I also just purchased Witcher 3, which apparently uses physx. I'll give that a try and let you know how it works out.
     

    I'm doing another play through of Arkham Asylum at 4K with every setting maxed and maintaining over 60 FPS min frame rates. It's almost like an entirely different game running it at that level of visual fidelity.

    Oh wow, I just noticed that you've got a 980 Ti for graphics with Titan SC for physx. What was the difference in that game using only the 980 Ti for both physx and graphics vs. adding in the Titan SC for physx? 

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    HeavyHemi
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    Re: any of you tried using a separate physx card? 2016/06/24 18:48:40 (permalink)
    sethleigh
    HeavyHemi
    sethleigh
    Hmm. I have Batman Arkham Origins and Asylum, though I've never played either. I may try this out just to see how the 960 as dedicated Physx card does. I also just purchased Witcher 3, which apparently uses physx. I'll give that a try and let you know how it works out.
     

    I'm doing another play through of Arkham Asylum at 4K with every setting maxed and maintaining over 60 FPS min frame rates. It's almost like an entirely different game running it at that level of visual fidelity.

    Oh wow, I just noticed that you've got a 980 Ti for graphics with Titan SC for physx. What was the difference in that game using only the 980 Ti for both physx and graphics vs. adding in the Titan SC for physx? 



    About a 30% increase in FPS. They removed the built in bench on the Steam GOTY edition so I can't redo the benches. I was running SLI TITAN SC with a GTX 650Ti for PhysX and the results were similar. Give me a bit and I'll run Arkham Origins with, and without.
     
    Edit...This is Arkham Origins, the in game bench @4K resolution (2160p) with every in game graphic setting maxed except for AA being off.
    980ti with TITIN SC dedicated to PhysX  min FPS 55, avg FPS, 89. PhysX GPU usage peaked at 64% usage.
    Basically making the game completely playable at 4K.
     
    980Ti alone, min FPS 38, avg FPS 68.
    Still playable but the frame rate and stuttering is more evident. Even worse if you're using vsync.
    With a less powerful GPU like the 960, you probably won't see the same increase in performance. Though I expect it would still be significant.
    post edited by HeavyHemi - 2016/06/24 19:11:31

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    onfire3289
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    Re: any of you tried using a separate physx card? 2016/06/24 20:06:21 (permalink)
    Think a 750 Ti would be decent enough as a dedicated physx card?

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    sethleigh
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    Re: any of you tried using a separate physx card? 2016/06/24 20:13:07 (permalink)
    Yeah this is interesting because my pairing is different than yours in that the 1080 SC is more powerful than the 980 Ti, but the 960 SSC is less powerful than the Titan SC.
    I'll tell ya what, since you just stopped what you're doing to run this, I'll start downloading Arkham Origins right now (I own it on Steam, just don't have it on my box right now) and install the 960 to test this out as soon as it's done.

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    stalinx20
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    Re: any of you tried using a separate physx card? 2016/06/24 20:41:56 (permalink)
    sethleigh
    Yeah this is interesting because my pairing is different than yours in that the 1080 SC is more powerful than the 980 Ti, but the 960 SSC is less powerful than the Titan SC.
    I'll tell ya what, since you just stopped what you're doing to run this, I'll start downloading Arkham Origins right now (I own it on Steam, just don't have it on my box right now) and install the 960 to test this out as soon as it's done.


    Pending the resolution you're running, it would be a complete waste if you are getting anything from 110-140fps on the 1080 by itself, and then decide to use the 960 and get, maybe a 10fps gain (will you see a difference? don't quote me on the 10fps though. Maybe you'll get 30, or whatever, but will you see the "difference"?). I mean, yeah.... you got the little boost, but, there is there a solid reason to do it? Don't get me wrong, I was a hardcore believer in PhysX and to use a PhysX card.
     
    I mean this is the question we're all asking here right? What kind of performance we are going to get when mixing a PhysX card with Pascal? Didn't this same topic come up with Maxwell? The results were very small. Some had bad performance when they took Maxwell and mixed it with their kepler series.
     
     

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    relevance
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    Re: any of you tried using a separate physx card? 2016/06/24 21:03:44 (permalink)
    i currently have gtx 580 sli w/ gt 630 (kepler version) as physx. physx card doesn't utilize VRAMs and only on CUDA cores. so if you want dedicated physx card, get something with high cuda's with high clock speeds. while same graphics architectures are recommended (fermi on fermi, kepler on kepler and etc..) it is not necessary. I've tried on gt 630 (kepler version) and performance were identical with gtx 560 ti, so i went with the gt 630 since it was fanless and cooled only by heat spreader. (no noise)
     
    I am now trying to get gtx 1080 ACX non OC version (want to OC myself) with gtx 580 as dedicated physx (only one) but that darn thing is hard to get right now. 
    here are my recommendations.
    1. don't buy a brand new card just to dedicate it as physx card. use your old one since performance boost is significant to have dedicated physx, performance between high ends and low ends are the same. (i'd go with 128 CUDAs minimum)
    2. try to get same architectures if you don't want headaches and battle on drivers. sometimes having two different architectures make physx card disappear.
    3. get one with the fanless, while physx loves CUDA cores and high clock speed, it doesn't really get that hot. it does not use VRAM so if you see a same card with 2gb versions and 4gb versions, get the cheaper one.
    4. there are very few games that supports physx, you'll be disappointed to find one good game with physx support. i recommend Mafia II and Fallout 4.
    here are links for physx supported game: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_with_hardware-accelerated_PhysX_support
     
    I remember with my first gen i7 920, i was getting 30 some odd fps only with one gtx 580, but adding dedicated physx card (9800 gtx) i was easily able to achieve 60fps. that was nearly 6 years ago..wow.
     
    gave those all away..except for my gtx 580..(now SLI'ed under water)
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    sethleigh
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    Re: any of you tried using a separate physx card? 2016/06/24 22:13:56 (permalink)
    I've checked and at least four of my games support Physx, those being Batman Arkham Origin, Killing Floor 2, Landmark (just got it to check it out - I used to play EQ and EQ II), and Witcher 3. Of these, Batman, Landmark, and Witcher are brand new to me. I just bought them over the last couple of days to have more games to try out.
     
    I believe Planetside 2 also supports PhysX. I don't have it on my machine right now but I've played it before.  Planetside 2 is a game I got playable performance on back in the day with my Geforce 8800gtx at 1920x1200, so with a 1080 SC it's likely to be pegged at 60 fps even without a physx card. I've also got Metro 2033, which I've never played but own on Steam, that supports physx.
     
    One problem is that a lot of the games that support physx are old enough that my new 1080 SC will probably peg them at my 4k monitor's top refresh rate of 60 Hz even without a physx card.
     
    This list of physx games seems to be more up to date: http://www.geforce.com/ha...technology/physx/games

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    stalinx20
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    Re: any of you tried using a separate physx card? 2016/06/24 22:29:18 (permalink)
    You'll soon find out what kind of results you get when you run some tests. Have fun with it.

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    HeavyHemi
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    Re: any of you tried using a separate physx card? 2016/06/24 22:35:36 (permalink)
    sethleigh
    I've checked and at least four of my games support Physx, those being Batman Arkham Origin, Killing Floor 2, Landmark (just got it to check it out - I used to play EQ and EQ II), and Witcher 3. Of these, Batman, Landmark, and Witcher are brand new to me. I just bought them over the last couple of days to have more games to try out.
     
    I believe Planetside 2 also supports PhysX. I don't have it on my machine right now but I've played it before.  Planetside 2 is a game I got playable performance on back in the day with my Geforce 8800gtx at 1920x1200, so with a 1080 SC it's likely to be pegged at 60 fps even without a physx card. I've also got Metro 2033, which I've never played but own on Steam, that supports physx.
     
    One problem is that a lot of the games that support physx are old enough that my new 1080 SC will probably peg them at my 4k monitor's top refresh rate of 60 Hz even without a physx card.
     
    This list of physx games seems to be more up to date: http://www.geforce.com/ha...technology/physx/games


    The GTX 1080 is about 10-15% faster. In the case of Arkham Origin, you're not going to be able to maintain a min of 60 FPS at 4K . The same with the Metro titles. Witcher 3 PhysX effects run on the CPU and you're not going to be able to keep a min of 60 FPS at 4K without reducing settings. 4K generally speaking for newer titles, needs SLI 980Ti or higher unless you're willing to compromise on settings. There's also http://physxinfo.com/

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    sethleigh
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    Re: any of you tried using a separate physx card? 2016/06/25 08:18:36 (permalink)
    Ok, I put the 960 SSC 4gb back into my machine. I should point out that my machine is fairly long in the tooth now, but packs quite a potent cpu for its age. It's an X58 board running a Xeon 5680, 6-core at 3.3 MHz. It's not overclocked.
     
    I ran the internal benchmark from Batman: Arkham Origins under several circumstances, they being PhysX on High using the 1080 SC, PhysX off, PhysX on Normal (as high as it goes) using the cpu, and PhysX on High using the 960 as dedicated physx card. I ran the benchmark three times for each setting, and four times for the 960 just because.
     
    3840x2160 at all highest possible settings but AA off
     
    PhysX Off:
    Min Max Avg
    84 145 114
    84 194 115
    84 144 114
     
    PhysX Normal w/cpu:
    9 142 83
    8 142 84
    8 142 83
     
    PhysX High w/1080 SC:
    24 94 61
    27 93 62
    25 95 62
     
    PhysX High w/960:
    29 103 81
    34 107 80
    26 107 79
    36 106 80
     
    It's gratifying to see that with the 960 dedicated as PhysX card, the minimum rose a good 3-9 fps, the maximum went up a good 8-14 fps, and the avg went up a good 19-20 fps. Of course, turning PhysX off completely achieved by far the highest framerates, however the things that PhysX are used for in this game add to the eye candy and look quite nice. With this 1080 I feel like indulging in whatever eye candy a game offers, and it's nice to see that in some games my 960 will actively contribute.
     
    I'm going to test some other things later on this morning to see how they react. I actually play Ashes of the Singularity (not just benchmark like seemingly everyone else), and I'm anxious to see how Ashes reacts with the 960 used in concert with the 1080 in DX 12 multi-gpu mode. It might actually make it worse, but there's only one way to find out.
     

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    sethleigh
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    Re: any of you tried using a separate physx card? 2016/06/25 08:34:44 (permalink)
    Oops, I noticed that was running at stock 1080 SC speeds. My modest overclock was off. I just ran with the 960 as PhysX again, and the OC on my 1080 SC set to +125 MHz GPU clock and +450 MHz VRAM clock.
     
    1080 SC +125 gpu +450 ram w/960 SSC 4gb for PhysX:
    34 111 82
    48 110 83
    32 108 80
     
    Though the avg. framerate only goes up by 2-3 fps with that overclock, it's very interesting to see how much the minimum and maximum have raised.

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    sethleigh
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    Re: any of you tried using a separate physx card? 2016/06/25 09:04:16 (permalink)
    I ran Ashes of the Singularity with and without multi-gpu support, and as I suspected the 1080 and the 960 are so far apart performance-wise that the framerates went down significantly, from around 45-53 fps down to around 36-36 fps.
     
    So 960 as PhysX is a win so far, 960 as co-gpu for DX12 is a big lose.

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    hansot85
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    Re: any of you tried using a separate physx card? 2016/06/25 09:59:17 (permalink)
    I don't see the need for dedicated physx anymore. The 10 series of cards are so very powerful plus not many games included physx support these days.
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    Torso
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    Re: any of you tried using a separate physx card? 2016/06/25 10:28:09 (permalink)
    I have a 770GTX SC currently and I have a 1080GTX FTW arriving Monday. I plan on keeping my 770 in as a physx card and for added monitor capability. (I have 7-8 display devices to connect, 4-5 will be on 1080, 3 on the 770) I am glad it seems like it shouldn't be an issue.
     
    Thanks for running these tests.
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    sethleigh
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    Re: any of you tried using a separate physx card? 2016/06/25 12:12:30 (permalink)
    Torso
    I have a 770GTX SC currently and I have a 1080GTX FTW arriving Monday. I plan on keeping my 770 in as a physx card and for added monitor capability. (I have 7-8 display devices to connect, 4-5 will be on 1080, 3 on the 770) I am glad it seems like it shouldn't be an issue.
     
    Thanks for running these tests.

    I'll run some more on some other games, because I'm curious.
     
    When I bought my 4K monitor several weeks ago (what ultimately convinced me that I needed a 1080) I removed my 1920x1200 24" LCD and haven't put it back yet. I'm going to set it up on the side as a 2nd monitor, and I'll plug it into this 960. That'll allow me to keep the 1080 free to drive the 4K monitor only so I don't suck any performance out of it for games. And the 960 can do Physx for games that use it, and just show whatever on the side for games that don't.

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    #22
    Torso
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    Re: any of you tried using a separate physx card? 2016/06/25 14:21:20 (permalink)
    sethleigh
    Torso
    I have a 770GTX SC currently and I have a 1080GTX FTW arriving Monday. I plan on keeping my 770 in as a physx card and for added monitor capability. (I have 7-8 display devices to connect, 4-5 will be on 1080, 3 on the 770) I am glad it seems like it shouldn't be an issue.
     
    Thanks for running these tests.

    I'll run some more on some other games, because I'm curious.
     
    When I bought my 4K monitor several weeks ago (what ultimately convinced me that I needed a 1080) I removed my 1920x1200 24" LCD and haven't put it back yet. I'm going to set it up on the side as a 2nd monitor, and I'll plug it into this 960. That'll allow me to keep the 1080 free to drive the 4K monitor only so I don't suck any performance out of it for games. And the 960 can do Physx for games that use it, and just show whatever on the side for games that don't.





    Yeah that is why I am gonna keep my 770 in my box. I only want the 1080 to drive my 3 mains(144hz) and my Vive, then use the 770 for my 2 accessory 7 inch  monitors and my 1080p 120hz projector. I might be adding a Rift in the mix as well but up in the air on that still. Was considering tossing a AMD 480 in as secondary but fig it best to keep it to one platform and even one mfr for easier compat/setup hopefully.
    #23
    stalinx20
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    Re: any of you tried using a separate physx card? 2016/06/26 18:02:00 (permalink)
    sethleigh
    Ok, I put the 960 SSC 4gb back into my machine. I should point out that my machine is fairly long in the tooth now, but packs quite a potent cpu for its age. It's an X58 board running a Xeon 5680, 6-core at 3.3 MHz. It's not overclocked.
     
    I ran the internal benchmark from Batman: Arkham Origins under several circumstances, they being PhysX on High using the 1080 SC, PhysX off, PhysX on Normal (as high as it goes) using the cpu, and PhysX on High using the 960 as dedicated physx card. I ran the benchmark three times for each setting, and four times for the 960 just because.
     
    3840x2160 at all highest possible settings but AA off
     
    PhysX Off:
    Min Max Avg
    84 145 114
    84 194 115
    84 144 114
     
    PhysX Normal w/cpu:
    9 142 83
    8 142 84
    8 142 83
     
    PhysX High w/1080 SC:
    24 94 61
    27 93 62
    25 95 62
     
    PhysX High w/960:
    29 103 81
    34 107 80
    26 107 79
    36 106 80
     
    It's gratifying to see that with the 960 dedicated as PhysX card, the minimum rose a good 3-9 fps, the maximum went up a good 8-14 fps, and the avg went up a good 19-20 fps. Of course, turning PhysX off completely achieved by far the highest framerates, however the things that PhysX are used for in this game add to the eye candy and look quite nice. With this 1080 I feel like indulging in whatever eye candy a game offers, and it's nice to see that in some games my 960 will actively contribute.
     
    I'm going to test some other things later on this morning to see how they react. I actually play Ashes of the Singularity (not just benchmark like seemingly everyone else), and I'm anxious to see how Ashes reacts with the 960 used in concert with the 1080 in DX 12 multi-gpu mode. It might actually make it worse, but there's only one way to find out.
     


    Yes, I would agree that if you have a 960 "laying around", try and use it, but do not "buy" a PhysX card. Honestly, though, 9 FPS is nothing to write home about. Keep in mind too that the 960 will only be used when you're running any PhysX application, or any app that uses Cuda. Other than that, it will just sit there using power.
    post edited by stalinx20 - 2016/06/26 18:04:19

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    #24
    bcavnaugh
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    Re: any of you tried using a separate physx card? 2016/06/26 18:04:13 (permalink)

    Associate Code: 9E88QK5L7811G3H


     
    #25
    Maverick1776
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    Re: any of you tried using a separate physx card? 2016/06/26 18:41:07 (permalink)
    hansot85
    I don't see the need for dedicated physx anymore. The 10 series of cards are so very powerful plus not many games included physx support these days.


    I agree here. Even with the 970/980 cards, a dedicated PhysX does not seem necessary anymore.
    Put a 1000 series card in there, and it just furthers the distance for needing dedicated PhysX.
    Unless devs create a game with simulated liquid and or crazy destructible environments that leave debris everywhere, I don't see a dedicated card being used again.



    #26
    stalinx20
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    Re: any of you tried using a separate physx card? 2016/06/26 18:48:47 (permalink)
    Maverick1776
    hansot85
    I don't see the need for dedicated physx anymore. The 10 series of cards are so very powerful plus not many games included physx support these days.


    I agree here. Even with the 970/980 cards, a dedicated PhysX does not seem necessary anymore.
    Put a 1000 series card in there, and it just furthers the distance for needing dedicated PhysX.
    Unless devs create a game with simulated liquid and or crazy destructible environments that leave debris everywhere, I don't see a dedicated card being used again.


    Agreed on the agree, and concur that until devs get advanced with their game engines with complex coding, you will not see any need for any PhysX card.

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    #27
    HeavyHemi
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    Re: any of you tried using a separate physx card? 2016/06/26 19:02:06 (permalink)
    Odd, but gaining 30% in average frame rates is nothing to sneeze at. At  4K, in Arkham Orgins, he's going from a marginal 60 FPS average to ~80FPS. That will make a large difference in the smoothness of the game especially if you're using vsync. Which of you arguing against it, have actually used one? When it's not being used, it uses less than 10 watts.
    post edited by HeavyHemi - 2016/06/26 19:04:28

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    #28
    HeavyHemi
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    Re: any of you tried using a separate physx card? 2016/06/26 19:06:40 (permalink)
    bcavnaugh
    3DMark Version 2 and SLI & Dedicated PhysX Card   Hard to Tell!


    Erm....as was pointed out in that thread already, FireStrike doesn't used GPU accelerated PhysX at all.

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    #29
    stalinx20
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    Re: any of you tried using a separate physx card? 2016/06/26 19:54:56 (permalink)
    HeavyHemi
    Odd, but gaining 30% in average frame rates is nothing to sneeze at. At  4K, in Arkham Orgins, he's going from a marginal 60 FPS average to ~80FPS. That will make a large difference in the smoothness of the game especially if you're using vsync. Which of you arguing against it, have actually used one? When it's not being used, it uses less than 10 watts.


    While I argued with the fact that nobody should buy a PhysX card to try and gain more performance, the only time they should try it is if they already have a GPU available for it and were getting a new GPU, then by all means do it. The only time I will argue to not use a PhysX card is if someone is already in SLI. Then again, that's a personal opinion. To each their own, I guess.
     
    Something that should be discussed is Vsync vs Gsync with a phsyx card, and without a PhysX card. That is what should be looked at.
    post edited by stalinx20 - 2016/06/26 19:59:56

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