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X99 Classified 18-core Xeon CPU and ECC RAM Compatibility

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gordan79
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2016/01/11 14:57:51 (permalink)
I found this page listing compatible CPUs for the various motherboards including the X99 Classified:
https://www.evga.com/support/motherboard/
It only lists Xeons up to Xeon E5-2697 v3 which is a 14-core CPU. Purely in hardware terms (socket, TDP), the 18-core E5-2699 v3 should also work:
http://ark.intel.com/products/81061/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E5-2699-v3-45M-Cache-2_30-GHz
 
So, questions:
1) Will the 18-core E5-2699 v3 CPU work in the X99 Classified?
2) If a Xeon CPU is used in the X99 Classified, does it fully support ECC memory
 
In addition:
 
3) Does X99 Classified support 64-bit BAR mappings (a.k.a. above 4G decode), which allows PCIe cards such as high end Nvidia Teslas and Xeon Phis to work (they require memory apertures larger than 4GB)?

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    gordan79
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    Re: X99 Classified 18-core Xeon CPU and ECC RAM Compatibility 2016/01/13 05:35:50 (permalink)
    Update: I have raised this directly with EVGA support. My query was responded to by somebody who can read the manual, who was able to confirm that, as I already knew (because, you know, I can read the downloadable PDF manual, too):
     
    1) X99 Classified hasn't been certified to work with the E5-2699 v3 CPU, so no guarantees of it working
    2) No ECC memory of any type was ever certified to work with the X99 classified so even with a Xeon, no guarantees that will work
    3) No 64-bit BAR support is listed in the manual
     
    And, of course, no intention was even remotely insinuated in supporting any of the above in future BIOS versions.

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    MrImSoGood
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    Re: X99 Classified 18-core Xeon CPU and ECC RAM Compatibility 2016/01/13 06:35:25 (permalink)
    Is that what server motherboards are made for
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    gordan79
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    Re: X99 Classified 18-core Xeon CPU and ECC RAM Compatibility 2016/01/13 06:48:00 (permalink)
    Well, it sure seems that it isn't what EVGA motherboards are made for.

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    Re: X99 Classified 18-core Xeon CPU and ECC RAM Compatibility 2016/01/13 07:21:36 (permalink)
    gordan79
    Well, it sure seems that it isn't what EVGA motherboards are made for.




    Didn't know these gaming boards were server versions.  News to me.  :P  These boards are desktop boards but with the chance of working with enterprise hardware BUT NOT guaranteed.  So you can't be mad at EVGA for this.  You're in the wrong section.  The green ugly looking server boards are on another site somewhere.  

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    gordan79
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    Re: X99 Classified 18-core Xeon CPU and ECC RAM Compatibility 2016/01/13 08:05:19 (permalink)
    Call me old fashioned, but I expect a motherboard with socket X to support all CPUs designed to fit socket X, and to support all features that the CPUs for socket X supports (such as ECC RAM in case of Xeons).
     
    And yes, I can confirm that life is full of disappointment when your expected standard of engineering excellence is stuck in the 20th century.

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    Cool GTX
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    Re: X99 Classified 18-core Xeon CPU and ECC RAM Compatibility 2016/01/13 08:21:28 (permalink)
    gordan79
    Call me old fashioned, but I expect a motherboard with socket X to support all CPUs designed to fit socket X, and to support all features that the CPUs for socket X supports (such as ECC RAM in case of Xeons).
     



    Good thing EVGA make it clear what their product can support; with compatibility documents.
     
    In this instance we are talking about a MB, which is way more complicated than just the socket.
     
    Design limits go well beyond the sum of the parts.
     
    Have a great day.
     
     
    post edited by Cool GTX - 2016/01/13 08:26:51

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    gordan79
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    Re: X99 Classified 18-core Xeon CPU and ECC RAM Compatibility 2016/01/13 08:27:19 (permalink)
    Cool GTX
    Design limits go well beyond fall well short of the sum of the parts.



    FTFY

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    Cool GTX
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    Re: X99 Classified 18-core Xeon CPU and ECC RAM Compatibility 2016/01/13 08:44:31 (permalink)
    Are you interested in building a workstation computer or a server with ECC RAM & 18 cores? 
     
    What software will you be using: OS & programs ?
     

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    gordan79
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    Re: X99 Classified 18-core Xeon CPU and ECC RAM Compatibility 2016/01/13 09:05:13 (permalink)
    Cool GTX
    Are you interested in building a workstation computer or a server with ECC RAM & 18 cores? 

     
    Obviously.
     
    Cool GTX
    What software will you be using: OS & programs ?


    Linux, with a VM (or two), each with GPU passthrough (gaming capable), so 100% working and bug-free VT-d and VT-x are essential. You don't want to know just how broken those are and what kind of bodgy patches I had to write for Xen's hvmloader 2 years ago when I embarked upon a similar task with the SR-2 to make such a configuration work. Thankfully, relatively recently a feature was added to mainline QEMU that can be abused to work around the hardware bug in question more cleanly.
     
    The other reason I am looking at options WRT replacing the SR-2 with something less buggy and less requiring of an enormous case is that it would be very handy (and cost effective) to be able to use a Xeon Phi for certain workloads (e.g. video transcoding), and those require working 64-bit BARs (PCIe memory apertures bigger than 4GB and thus implicitly mapped above the 4GB 32-bit boundary).
     
    As for ECC requirements, since a few years back I refuse to use anything more advanced than a laptop without ECC memory (and I grudgingly accept using a non-ECC laptop due to the fact that there is no such thing as an ECC laptop that doesn't weigh as much as a desktop). Life is far, far too short for weeks-long OCCT/minerd and other memory I/O subsystem stability testing, especially when those even when they error out (eventually) don't tell you which physical DIMM is at fault. Combine that with the fact that there are 8-12 DIMMs in the machine (and marginal signal quality/interference issues may not manifest without all the DIMMs installed), and you are lining yourself up for a whole world of pain if you want verifiable stability and your time is worth more than $0/day.
     
    So yes, a full fat server board is probably what I'll have to get. It's just that I also put extremely high value on good customer service and warranty, which is why I would have preferred to get an EVGA board (because in comparison, most other hardware manufacturers do awfully poorly in that department).

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    TECH_DaveB
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    Re: X99 Classified 18-core Xeon CPU and ECC RAM Compatibility 2016/01/13 10:40:45 (permalink)
    Hello, first off we appreciate you wanting to go with us for hardware due to customer service and warranty.  That is one of our main goals, is to have the best support out there, while we are not perfect, no one is, that is an area we push in.
    As for support of that hardware.  The X99's are not meant for that, you can do it in some cases but it is not meant for this.  Keep in mind that manufacturers who do make "Work Station Grade" motherboards with desktop chipsets typically have some caveats, such as only "UNBUFFERED" ECC memory.  That is a discussion I have had with engineers, and there are some differences in the chipsets (and many other small components) between Desktop and WS/Server counterparts.  A server chip, in most cases, is capable of running just fine on a desktop board, but does not necessarily support, this is why in the past you have X58 and 5520, X79 and C6xx. 
     
    We have no plans currently on BIOS updates designed to give full ECC support, I apologize for the inconvenience.
     
    Our boards are meant for gaming, competitive clocking and desktop apps.  The analogy that comes to mind is you have a decked out Mustang GT350 with every power adder you can safely add to pull a heavy load, while the Mustang has the torque this is NOT what it was designed for, sounds like you need an F350.
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    Cool GTX
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    Re: X99 Classified 18-core Xeon CPU and ECC RAM Compatibility 2016/01/13 10:51:01 (permalink)
    Thanks DaveB for giving clarity to this post
     
     
    EVGA = great customer service and warranty & a forum where they make getting answers easy.
    post edited by Cool GTX - 2016/01/13 10:54:36

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    gordan79
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    Re: X99 Classified 18-core Xeon CPU and ECC RAM Compatibility 2016/01/14 10:15:33 (permalink)
    EVGATech_DaveB
    As for support of that hardware.  The X99's are not meant for that, you can do it in some cases but it is not meant for this.  Keep in mind that manufacturers who do make "Work Station Grade" motherboards with desktop chipsets typically have some caveats, such as only "UNBUFFERED" ECC memory.  That is a discussion I have had with engineers, and there are some differences in the chipsets (and many other small components) between Desktop and WS/Server counterparts.  A server chip, in most cases, is capable of running just fine on a desktop board, but does not necessarily support, this is why in the past you have X58 and 5520, X79 and C6xx.



    Some servers (e.g. the HP G7 and G8 Microservers) require unbuffered ECC memory (as in they won't POST without ECC memory or with registered memory). If only unbuffered memory is supported, that isn't such a big deal. Will the X99 + Xeon work with unbuffered ECC memory (and will ECC actually work)? 16GB modules are already listed as compatible, which is plenty of RAM, and I don't see needing larger capacity DIMMs being that important a feature (larger DIMMs being only available in registered variety).
     
    I understand there are differences between desktop and server chipsets, but X99 chipset has practically nothing to do with memory - the MCH is built into the CPU, not into the motherboard NB, so it really does come down to whether the firmware initializes the MCH registers appropriately at boot time, rather than a hardware issue. MCH hasn't been in the NB since the Core 2 generation of CPUs.
     
    As for 18-core Xeon compatibility, is this not largely down to including the appropriate microcode blob for it in the BIOS?

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    Vlada011
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    Re: X99 Classified 18-core Xeon CPU and ECC RAM Compatibility 2016/01/14 18:05:36 (permalink)
    E5-2697 V3, E5-2698 V3, E5-2699 V3 work on Rampage 5 Extreme.
    But with desktop motherboard I would try first with ASUS X99-E WS USB 3.1.
    They advertised as Powerful Home Server motherboard and almost all Xeons are supported list.
    More models than on Rampage 5 Extreme.
    Except support for them she have and very nice options for multi GPU configuration x16 3-4 way SLI.
    Linus installed 18 core Xeon on ASRock X99E-ITX/ac Mini ITX motherboard with only two memory slots.
     

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    gordan79
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    Re: X99 Classified 18-core Xeon CPU and ECC RAM Compatibility 2016/01/15 02:45:43 (permalink)
    Yeah, I looked at the Asus line-up, and while I used to buy their products for their excellent design and quality, Unfortunately, I have been burned badly by their warranty dodging and terrible customer service in the past (they are known to be by far the worst in the industry for it).

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    Vlada011
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    Re: X99 Classified 18-core Xeon CPU and ECC RAM Compatibility 2016/01/15 04:29:29 (permalink)
    They are not worse than GIGABYTE or MSI.
    Only solution is to find seller who treat customers better as Amazon, I hear they allow to people back hardware if something not work as advertised.
    If Xeon 18 core work on some desktop motherboards that's ASUS X99-E WS/USB 3.1, ASUS X99-E IPMI and ASRock X99 WS-E...
    I think all of them support 128GB DDR4 ECC and RDIMM.
    You can find list of supported modules on their sites... You can't find better today. 
     
    post edited by Vlada011 - 2016/01/15 04:40:07

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    gordan79
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    Re: X99 Classified 18-core Xeon CPU and ECC RAM Compatibility 2016/01/15 09:36:46 (permalink)
    Indeed, a good retailer is as good a workaround as it gets, but that typically still means you are going to be without a working piece of kit for potentially weeks while they turn it around and argue the toss with the manufacturer if there is ever a warranty claim.
     
    And on general principle, I don't want to support companies with poor customer and warranty service by buying their products. Rocks and hard places...

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    Re: X99 Classified 18-core Xeon CPU and ECC RAM Compatibility 2016/01/15 10:26:48 (permalink)
    OK, but for now no something as you want, models above are only you can find with X99 chipsets compatible with all Xeon models and server memories.
    This is list of supported and there are other list with much more models but for desktop...
     
     
    4x 16GB Samsung M393A2K40BB1-CRC is probably OK, DDR4 2400 ECC/REG...
    https://www.compuram.de/e...k40bb1-crc,samsung.htm
    post edited by Vlada011 - 2016/01/15 10:30:24

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    Cool GTX
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    Re: X99 Classified 18-core Xeon CPU and ECC RAM Compatibility 2016/01/15 11:02:33 (permalink)
    gordan79
    Yeah, I looked at the Asus line-up, and while I used to buy their products for their excellent design and quality, Unfortunately, I have been burned badly by their warranty dodging and terrible customer service in the past.




    +1
     
    Asus X99 MBs, killing CPUs was something I had no intention of experiencing firsthand.
    post edited by Cool GTX - 2016/01/15 13:09:53

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    Re: X99 Classified 18-core Xeon CPU and ECC RAM Compatibility 2016/01/15 11:47:03 (permalink)
    Maybe for you is EVGA support good, but for me was worse example, I had better experience with ASUS.
    EVGA can't make such good thing to force me to buy that ever again. 
    Same was before few days on ASUS Forum guys from UK had problem with burned card, after few days he got a new.
    If you can build own motherboard with X99 chipset to support anything as server board than OK. If not and if you want there are not 50 options.
    EVGA can't be competitive in desktop segment, not to optimize Xeon and ECC for desktop motherboards... That would be tragedy probably.
    Expensive tragedy for people. And than it's same if someone send you 5 boards and all of them had some flaws or you wait other company longer to send you second normal board.
     
     
    post edited by Vlada011 - 2016/01/15 11:53:49

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    Aiwandia
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    Re: X99 Classified 18-core Xeon CPU and ECC RAM Compatibility 2016/03/24 15:54:45 (permalink)
    EVGATech_DaveB 
    We have no plans currently on BIOS updates designed to give full ECC support, I apologize for the inconvenience.
     Our boards are meant for gaming, competitive clocking and desktop apps.  The analogy that comes to mind is you have a decked out Mustang GT350 with every power adder you can safely add to pull a heavy load, while the Mustang has the torque this is NOT what it was designed for, sounds like you need an F350.

    There you have it, EVGA SR-2 ECC support was a fluke result of unlocked Xeons.
    Cool GTX
     
    Are you interested in building a workstation computer or a server with ECC RAM & 18 cores? 
     
    What software will you be using: OS & programs ?
     




    Ghost me your OS for my SR-2 cluster,
    if I may be so bold.
    ECC is the divisor then between gamer boards and workstation/server.
    ECC divides GPU card grades also.
    It comes to mind you need full time AWD.
    AWD narrows the field in auto tech like
    ECC narrows the field in HPC tech. 
     
     
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    RetardedTiming
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    Re: X99 Classified 18-core Xeon CPU and ECC RAM Compatibility 2016/03/27 22:32:48 (permalink)
    I can confirm a Xeon E5-2699 v3 will work in a X99 Micro2 but I'm using standard desktop non-ECC memory. So I can't confirm ECC works.
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    Re: X99 Classified 18-core Xeon CPU and ECC RAM Compatibility 2016/03/28 19:23:52 (permalink)
    gordan79
    Call me old fashioned, but I expect a motherboard with socket X to support all CPUs designed to fit socket X, and to support all features that the CPUs for socket X supports (such as ECC RAM in case of Xeons).
     
    And yes, I can confirm that life is full of disappointment when your expected standard of engineering excellence is stuck in the 20th century.


    Well, the other side of that coin is I have SuperMicro Server motherboards (for example the X58 based X8SAX) that supports Xeons and ECC, but cannot run two NVIDIA cards in SLI! They support Crossfire but not SLI. When I asked Tech support they said Super did not want to pay NVIDIA the license fees to support SLI on that mb. They have a different mb (C7X58) that supports SLI but not ECC is not a server based mb.
     
    So not all mbs will support all CPU functions with a given socket or even chipset combination. Its up to the mb manufacturer to determine which functions are supported. Go to Super if you want a server mb.
    #23
    arestavo
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    Re: X99 Classified 18-core Xeon CPU and ECC RAM Compatibility 2016/03/29 10:35:16 (permalink)
    RetardedTiming
    I can confirm a Xeon E5-2699 v3 will work in a X99 Micro2 but I'm using standard desktop non-ECC memory. So I can't confirm ECC works.


    Thanks for sharing that! I'm actually considering snagging one (albeit an Extra Spicy/QS version), but I am trying to hold off for EVGA's V4 support and 14 nm.
    #24
    Warboy
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    Re: X99 Classified 18-core Xeon CPU and ECC RAM Compatibility 2016/03/29 21:10:34 (permalink)
    Yea I don't really see why EVGA X99 couldn't run a E5-2699v3. They unofficially support Xeons. One of the reasons why my X79 Dark has a Xeon in it right now. Only problem is the memory dividers don't work correctly. So it's limited to 1600mhz DDR3. So yours might be limited to 2133mhz DDR4. But I'm not sure, I don't know if they fixed that for X99.


    My Rig can do EpicFLOPs, Can yours?
    Once this baby hits 88 GigaFLOPs, You're going to see some serious $@#%....

    #25
    cyberlocc
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    Re: X99 Classified 18-core Xeon CPU and ECC RAM Compatibility 2016/03/29 23:02:23 (permalink)
    Aiwandia
    EVGATech_DaveB 
    We have no plans currently on BIOS updates designed to give full ECC support, I apologize for the inconvenience.
     Our boards are meant for gaming, competitive clocking and desktop apps.  The analogy that comes to mind is you have a decked out Mustang GT350 with every power adder you can safely add to pull a heavy load, while the Mustang has the torque this is NOT what it was designed for, sounds like you need an F350.

    There you have it, EVGA SR-2 ECC support was a fluke result of unlocked Xeons.



    Wait why? And why was it a fluke of unlocked Xeons, you say that as if there isn't Unlocked Xeons right now? Looks at the entire line up of Unlocked x99 Xeons. 
     
    Over half of the Xeons in the 16** range are fully unlocked and support ECC. That includes the Sandy Es, Ivy Es, and Haswell Es. As well as the 8 cores, in all 3. 
     
    The 10 and 14 cores may also in fact be unlocked but you cant buy them so there is that. 
     
    I only say that as your post leads me to believe you think that the unlocked Xeons were a fluke? that isnt the case. 
    post edited by cyberlocc - 2016/03/29 23:04:37
    #26
    arestavo
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    Re: X99 Classified 18-core Xeon CPU and ECC RAM Compatibility 2016/03/30 04:23:12 (permalink)
    Warboy
    ...They unofficially support Xeons. One of the reasons why my X79 Dark has a Xeon in it right now. Only problem is the memory dividers don't work correctly. So it's limited to 1600mhz DDR3. So yours might be limited to 2133mhz DDR4. But I'm not sure, I don't know if they fixed that for X99.


    Really? My X79 Dark has a 1650V2 running at 4.5 GHZ with 32GB (8 sticks) of 2400MHz RAM running at 2133MHz with just a slight RAM voltage bump. Or were you referring only to the locked 2XXX series?

    And both the X79 and X99 officially, not unofficially, support Xeons.All of them may not be on the QVL, but a lot of them are. Unless that's what you meant?
    post edited by arestavo - 2016/03/30 04:28:10
    #27
    lehpron
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    Re: X99 Classified 18-core Xeon CPU and ECC RAM Compatibility 2016/03/30 15:36:04 (permalink)
    Couple things I want to mention for what it's worth:
     
    1. Server, workstation, gaming, office, etc -- these are all uses, they are not functions limited to application specific hardware; you can use anything for anything, the only difference is what you expect versus a resulting performance.  All Intel's processor designs for the same architecture are the same; Intel only changes the core and cache counts, the number of PCIe and RAM channels enabled, and all other supported features including ECC based on the target market.  For the most part, the performance per core and per clock is identical whether we're talking about a Pentium G3220 or a Xeon E5-2699 v3.  Except the higher count Xeons have the advantage of the larger pool of share cache even while running single-threaded versus the Pentium.  
    2. Ultimately, support for a particular feature is more about marketing territory when referring to a brand:  In the case of EVGA, the SR-2/SR-X products were catered to "Prosumers", which were not regular professionals who would find use for ECC while not regular consumers who wouldn't find use of more than one CPU.  One could say that Xeon support in Intel's HEDT platform is catering exclusively to those that want more cores than the flagship i7 model.  Furthermore, the fact that EVGA caters to overclockers in terms of board design could be why you may not see official ECC support despite seeing Xeon support:  Overclocking generally destabilizes a system, while anyone that prefers ECC generally wants absolute stability and endurance.  

      That said, you can have your cake and eat it too by simply choosing another board maker that openly supports more feature combinations.  ASUS and Gigabyte are among the largest manufacturers in term of global sales, the chances are much higher they may have what you want.
    3. Some (albeit a few) Xeons are unlocked because they share the microcode with those i7 models meant for Intel's HEDT platforms, they are of course the E5-1600 series.  Pre-Sandy Bridge, there were no unlocked Xeons, per se.  The key is that Intel had the clock generator externally integrated into the mainboard, which gave motherboard makers the freedom to decide which processors could overclock.  This was why EVGA's SR-2 worked so well to overclock those Gainstown and Gulftown pairs of Xeons.  But when the Sandy Bridge/Sandy Bridge-E generation debuted, Intel integrated the clock generator into the processor die, which meant they had control and prevented all processors but those with K/X labeling from overclocking.  Recently, and ironically, it was Supermicro that allowed non-K overclocking on their Skylake platforms using an i3 which was quickly supported by a number of other vendors, most notably ASRock's SkyOC-- and then Intel reacted and some of those vendors created new BIOS to take that option back.  The reason that was possible is that apparently Intel put a secondary clock generator in the platform which was able to override the primary, thus leading to Bclk overclocking of non-K like the old days.  It is unknown, mainly due to unavailable data, whether anyone has attempted to overclock Xeon E3's in the Skylake platform, same whether the circumstance exists on the -E platforms.  
    4. From what little rumors I've found on the subject thus far (because I pay attention as if I'll buy it), Intel's Skylake-E might have a different socket than Skylake-EP, i.e. LGA2011 v4 versus LGA3467, so prosumers can't just stick the upcoming 28-core Xeons in a proverbial X190 board when they come.  So if you want an 18-core Haswell-EP Xeon (or a 20-core Broadwell-EP) in an X99, it is now or never.  Core i7's might be limited to a 10-core early on, perhaps Cannonlake-E could be a 12-core.  
     
     

    For Intel processors, 0.122 x TDP = Continuous Amps at 12v [source].  

    Introduction to Thermoelectric Cooling
    #28
    Warboy
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    Re: X99 Classified 18-core Xeon CPU and ECC RAM Compatibility 2016/03/30 17:37:37 (permalink)
    arestavo
    Warboy
    ...They unofficially support Xeons. One of the reasons why my X79 Dark has a Xeon in it right now. Only problem is the memory dividers don't work correctly. So it's limited to 1600mhz DDR3. So yours might be limited to 2133mhz DDR4. But I'm not sure, I don't know if they fixed that for X99.


    Really? My X79 Dark has a 1650V2 running at 4.5 GHZ with 32GB (8 sticks) of 2400MHz RAM running at 2133MHz with just a slight RAM voltage bump. Or were you referring only to the locked 2XXX series?

    And both the X79 and X99 officially, not unofficially, support Xeons.All of them may not be on the QVL, but a lot of them are. Unless that's what you meant?

    V1s encounter the problem. Also double check CPU-Z to see if it's really running.
     
    Because V1s claim to be running 2400mhz in bios, but only 1600mhz in windows. This was also proven by SuperPI 32M numbers.


    My Rig can do EpicFLOPs, Can yours?
    Once this baby hits 88 GigaFLOPs, You're going to see some serious $@#%....

    #29
    arestavo
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    Re: X99 Classified 18-core Xeon CPU and ECC RAM Compatibility 2016/03/30 18:53:25 (permalink)
    Warboy
    arestavo
    Warboy
    ...They unofficially support Xeons. One of the reasons why my X79 Dark has a Xeon in it right now. Only problem is the memory dividers don't work correctly. So it's limited to 1600mhz DDR3. So yours might be limited to 2133mhz DDR4. But I'm not sure, I don't know if they fixed that for X99.


    Really? My X79 Dark has a 1650V2 running at 4.5 GHZ with 32GB (8 sticks) of 2400MHz RAM running at 2133MHz with just a slight RAM voltage bump. Or were you referring only to the locked 2XXX series?

    And both the X79 and X99 officially, not unofficially, support Xeons.All of them may not be on the QVL, but a lot of them are. Unless that's what you meant?

    V1s encounter the problem. Also double check CPU-Z to see if it's really running.
     
    Because V1s claim to be running 2400mhz in bios, but only 1600mhz in windows. This was also proven by SuperPI 32M numbers.




    I have checked CPU-Z when I was doing a bit of testing using the pre-DX12 version of Rise of the Tomb Raider to see how much RAM speed affected minimum FPS. It most assuredly works on my 1650V2 and X79 Dark.
    #30
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