Piers123
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See below for updates------------------------------------------------------- This is the sixth issue or gripe I've had with this card. - I didn't mind the lack of stickers and booklet in the box
- I didn't mind the random loss of signal (tested other card and drivers, no issue)
- I didn't mind the higher-than-average GPU temperatures (but within specifications)
- I didn't mind the card, on rare occassions, producing a black screen and the fans spinning up (RMA started)
- I didn't mind the thermal pad "mod" to fix an issue EVGA overlooked
- I DO mind the card exploding, causing the inside of my case to change to a brilliant white colour, as well as the loud bang and 'sizzle' noise
- I DO mind smell so obnoxious that I needed to leave my apartment
- I DO mind other components now semi-working or not working at all
- I DO mind the USA lack of care (Germany was helpful)
What HappenedI was playing CS:GO - hardly a stressful game for a 1080 FTW - and the following happened: - Off work due to stress, trying to relax.
- Start CS:GO with EVGA P XOC stats displayed
- Temperature shows 65°C or so
- Play one match, no issues
- Mid-way through second match and see (from under my desk) the entire inside of the case brighter than the Sun, closely followed by a very loud bang
- Computer makes a noise and then turns off
- Remove card
- Test spare PSU and PC won't boot
- Use original PSU and PC boots then turns off
- Try again and PC turns on
- Notice marks near the PCI-E slot on the motherboard (the damage in the photos is on the PCI-E side of the card).
Overclock (ignore signature)- EVGA P XOC
- Core + 50
- Memory + 400
- NO voltage
- Fan Curve 45°C=70%, 55°C=80%, 65°C=90%, 75°C=100%
- BIOS 2 was in use at the time
PhotosNotes: - the metal grill had a couple of bits that fell off when taking the photo - it was not completely burnt but the supports around it were - notice the discolouration on the board - notice the 'crispy' parts of the board - The backplate was removed after the event. No modifications or changes had been made to the card prior to the 'blowing up' incident.  AdditionalEVGA's US reply: "there's no proof that the card caused damage to the rest of the computer." EVGA's DE reply: "sorry, please send photos followed by the card and we'll see what we can do." UK Consumer Advice bottom line: "if true, the damage to other parts appears to be caused by the faulty component (1080)" Overclockers advice: "Asus and other manufacturers are unlikely to replace the parts due to a component 'blowing up', this falls under Consequential Loss and it's odd that EVGA would not offer a 'goodwill gesture' to avoid negative press and restore the customer's faith" Thanks, EVGA! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- UPDATE 17-11-2016Jan from EVGA called and we spoke about my concerns and damage caused. He's working on rectifying the issue to my satisfaction. The card is being collected tomorrow. 10/10 for Jan's phone call, I'll see if this helpful, friendly, and caring attitude continues and keep you updated. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- UPDATE 18-11-2016An man came to collect the item, but did not bring suitable packaging (a bag and label, as I understood he would) so the collection has been delayed until Jan is able to re-arrange it. I will continue to post updates for those interested. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- UPDATE 18-11-2016The PCI-E slot appears to be dead. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- UPDATE 21-11-2016The card has been collected and will be sent to Taiwan. I have spoken with Jan about the motherboard and a solution is being worked out. We are due to talk on Wednesday or Thursday. A suitable replacement for 1080 has been agreed upon and I'm happy with that. So far, 8/10 (the -2 is the for the North American call centre).
post edited by Piers123 - 2016/11/21 03:27:04
CPU: Intel i7 6700k @ 4.7Ghz (1.325v)Cooling: Corsair H110i GT CPU CoolingMotherboard: Asus Maximus VIII Hero Z170RAM: Kingston 32GB FuryX DDR4 2667 @2666MHz (1.200v/15-15-15-34)GPU: EVGA GTX 1080 FTW 8GB @~2100/10962 (+80%/130%/88°C/+Curve/+475 - Extra 50 MHz with Curve)HDD: 5* 4TB WD REDOS SSD: 1* Samsung 850 Evo 500GB SSDGaming SSD: 1* OCZ 500GB SSDCase: Corsair Obsidian 750DPSU: Corsair RM850X PSUMonitor: AOC U3277PQU 32" [link=mailto:3840x2160@60Hz]3840x2160@60Hz[/link] Some of the above parts no longer work due to damage from my EVGA 1080 FTW.
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arestavo
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Re: 1080 FTW exploded (now dead) and took other parts with it.
2016/11/16 06:19:48
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Ouch! So you took off the FTW backplate and left it off? That sucks badly... it *might* have kept the popped components from hitting the other stuff in your case. Edit: what PSU are you using and do you use an UPS? I'm just curious.
post edited by arestavo - 2016/11/16 06:23:37
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Piers123
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Re: 1080 FTW exploded (now dead) and took other parts with it.
2016/11/16 06:24:03
(permalink)
arestavo Ouch! So you took off the FTW backplate and left it off? That sucks badly... it *might* have kept the popped components from hitting the other stuff in your case.
Sorry, I should have added that I removed the backplate AFTER the incident to inspect the damage. I've not modified the card at all or removed any part since owning it. Edit: I have a Corsair RM850x PSU and a surge protector. I live in an area with stable power and the electrics are only six-years-old
CPU: Intel i7 6700k @ 4.7Ghz (1.325v)Cooling: Corsair H110i GT CPU CoolingMotherboard: Asus Maximus VIII Hero Z170RAM: Kingston 32GB FuryX DDR4 2667 @2666MHz (1.200v/15-15-15-34)GPU: EVGA GTX 1080 FTW 8GB @~2100/10962 (+80%/130%/88°C/+Curve/+475 - Extra 50 MHz with Curve)HDD: 5* 4TB WD REDOS SSD: 1* Samsung 850 Evo 500GB SSDGaming SSD: 1* OCZ 500GB SSDCase: Corsair Obsidian 750DPSU: Corsair RM850X PSUMonitor: AOC U3277PQU 32" [link=mailto:3840x2160@60Hz]3840x2160@60Hz[/link] Some of the above parts no longer work due to damage from my EVGA 1080 FTW.
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sahafiec
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Re: 1080 FTW exploded (now dead) and took other parts with it.
2016/11/16 06:35:07
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clear case to prove how good Evga's support really is. thumbs down for EVGA's US reply, that's a no go imo.
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Piers123
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Re: 1080 FTW exploded (now dead) and took other parts with it.
2016/11/16 06:39:57
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sahafiec clear case to prove how good Evga's support really is. thumbs down for EVGA's US reply, that's a no go imo.
Yes, that left my fuming. I'm already off work due to high stress and I could do without this right now. I also can't get rid of the burnt plastic and electronics smell from my apartment. I've moved the tower into another room, opened windows and doors, and I can still smell it.
CPU: Intel i7 6700k @ 4.7Ghz (1.325v)Cooling: Corsair H110i GT CPU CoolingMotherboard: Asus Maximus VIII Hero Z170RAM: Kingston 32GB FuryX DDR4 2667 @2666MHz (1.200v/15-15-15-34)GPU: EVGA GTX 1080 FTW 8GB @~2100/10962 (+80%/130%/88°C/+Curve/+475 - Extra 50 MHz with Curve)HDD: 5* 4TB WD REDOS SSD: 1* Samsung 850 Evo 500GB SSDGaming SSD: 1* OCZ 500GB SSDCase: Corsair Obsidian 750DPSU: Corsair RM850X PSUMonitor: AOC U3277PQU 32" [link=mailto:3840x2160@60Hz]3840x2160@60Hz[/link] Some of the above parts no longer work due to damage from my EVGA 1080 FTW.
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qbvbsite
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Re: 1080 FTW exploded (now dead) and took other parts with it.
2016/11/16 06:58:18
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I'm sure EVGA will step up and make this right.
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orlando2542
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Re: 1080 FTW exploded (now dead) and took other parts with it.
2016/11/16 07:00:59
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This is really unfortunate. I'm really sorry for you and your PC. This really stinks. I don't know what EVGA was thinking selling cards worth $500, $700 + without pads that cost at the most $10. They are also taking weeks to ship the thermal mod pads and I was just thinking the other day.... WHAT IF a card blowup so bad that it burns the entire rest of the PC??? Welp there we have it. Now again EVGA customer support is great and the CEO said that they will stand behind their customers. Try to bring this to their attention and I'm pretty sure they will make it up for you. There could be legal problems if they don't. Selling a product to a customer that has factory issues, setting his apartment with smoke and blowing the rest of his computer is not exactly what they want behind the EVGA reputation ;)
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Piers123
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Re: 1080 FTW exploded (now dead) and took other parts with it.
2016/11/16 07:12:55
(permalink)
orlando2542 This is really unfortunate. I'm really sorry for you and your PC. This really stinks. I don't know what EVGA was thinking selling cards worth $500, $700 + without pads that cost at the most $10. They are also taking weeks to ship the thermal mod pads and I was just thinking the other day.... WHAT IF a card blowup so bad that it burns the entire rest of the PC??? Welp there we have it. Now again EVGA customer support is great and the CEO said that they will stand behind their customers. Try to bring this to their attention and I'm pretty sure they will make it up for you. There could be legal problems if they don't. Selling a product to a customer that has factory issues, setting his apartment with smoke and blowing the rest of his computer is not exactly what they want behind the EVGA reputation ;)
I hope EVGA does make this right. The US office's reply certainly did anger me somewhat. I'll also point out that the price difference (GBP->USD) means this card cost ~$820. A $700 card in the US is generally a £650 card in the UK.
CPU: Intel i7 6700k @ 4.7Ghz (1.325v)Cooling: Corsair H110i GT CPU CoolingMotherboard: Asus Maximus VIII Hero Z170RAM: Kingston 32GB FuryX DDR4 2667 @2666MHz (1.200v/15-15-15-34)GPU: EVGA GTX 1080 FTW 8GB @~2100/10962 (+80%/130%/88°C/+Curve/+475 - Extra 50 MHz with Curve)HDD: 5* 4TB WD REDOS SSD: 1* Samsung 850 Evo 500GB SSDGaming SSD: 1* OCZ 500GB SSDCase: Corsair Obsidian 750DPSU: Corsair RM850X PSUMonitor: AOC U3277PQU 32" [link=mailto:3840x2160@60Hz]3840x2160@60Hz[/link] Some of the above parts no longer work due to damage from my EVGA 1080 FTW.
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Re: 1080 FTW exploded (now dead) and took other parts with it.
2016/11/16 07:20:15
(permalink)
First and foremost, a resistor could still pop with the thermal pads on it. The most it will do is contain the flash/arc and make things smell even worse.
Second, sorry to hear about the loss. Hopefully EVGA EU is able to help you out. When outside of the US, contacting the us support team will usually push you over to the EU team.
It is also important to note that modt manufacturers do not replace components that arent theirs when something happens.. Asus sometimes wont even replace their own components.
Give EVGA a chance and let them see the pictures you took.
Also, not all support staff work in an EVGA office. Some work through satellite locations, and do not always have the correct answer.
I am going to forward this up to an EVGA Tech and try to get you some help.
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orlando2542
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Re: 1080 FTW exploded (now dead) and took other parts with it.
2016/11/16 07:20:23
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I just hope this doesn't go the same road as the Galaxy Note 7 and EVGA ending up recalling the entire FTW lineup.
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DeathAngel74
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Re: 1080 FTW exploded (now dead) and took other parts with it.
2016/11/16 07:51:40
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First, sorry for your loss and I hope eVGA takes care of you in the end. Secondly, I've had to deal with Note 7 customers face-to-face at work and it's horrible. People throw the phone at you and swearing, while you're trying not to get pissed yourself. Thirdly, people have been returning a lot of 1070 SC's and 1060 SSC's where I work because of posts like this. They don't want to risk anything. Understandable......
Corsair Carbide 300R Windowed ATX Mid Tower Case ASUS ROG MAXIMUS VIII HERO Z170 Intel Core i7 6700k 4.6 GHz 1.35v-1.37v adaptive 32GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 DRAM 3200 MHz C16 16-18-18-36-2T EVGA Geforce GTX 1070 SC ACX 3.0 2101MHz/8726MHz 1.075v-1.081v Corsair H100i v2 Hydro w/2x SP120 and 2x Thermaltake RIING 12 Blue LEDs 7x Thermaltake RIING 12 Blue LEDs EVGA SuperNOVA 1300 G2 1.3kW Fully Modular ADATA 480GB (storage/games) ADATA 960GB (Windows/Games-Origin/Steam/GoG) Realtek ALC1150/SupremeFX 2015 Windows 7 SP1 Ultimate x64 http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/15307550http://valid.x86.fr/ez4v5d
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orlando2542
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Re: 1080 FTW exploded (now dead) and took other parts with it.
2016/11/16 07:57:43
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Yeah Death Angel I work with customer support too for IT and it sucks sometimes when they are super rude with you even tho is not your fault at all, but you just the face of the company at that moment. I'm strongly confident on EVGA and the quality behind their products. They made a mistake and are fixing it and I will still buying EVGA products, this is just unfortunate and I'm pretty sure they will take care of it.
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nycalex80
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Re: 1080 FTW exploded (now dead) and took other parts with it.
2016/11/16 08:16:21
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i'm getting my replacement 1080 from evga as i type this. once i get replacement, it's going straight to ebay. Cannot risk damaging my newly built $2k system. if my card explodes and damages my samsung 960 pro, i'll probably kill somebody. don't get me wrong, i'll still buy EVGA products. but this generation of 1070 and 1080 cards with acx 3.0 cooling left a sour taste. i do not feel safe in having one of these in my rig. As much as EVGA tried to alleviate the situation, i strongly believe they should have recalled these cards OFFICIALY. There's not a single mention of this design fault on their website. You have to understand, not everyone checks manufacturer's forums. A lot of major Computer tech media groups have publicized this flaw and have a link to this forum. However, it seems to me EVGA is trying to downplay the severity of the situation. And this to me is a no-no. Aside from the fear of damaging other components (for now it seems it's very rare), i fear the loss of value on these cards in the long run. How are we going to get compensated for future loss of value? It reminds me of the whole VW diesel fiasco.
Be Quiet! Dark Base Pro 900 orange edition Asus ROG maximus viii hero I7 6700k @ 4.5 1.32v Corsair H115i cooler with 4 x noctua nf14 fans, push/pull. 32gb Gskill trident Z Evga supernova P2 1000w Evga gaming acx GTX 1080 500 gb samsung 960 Pro nvme ssd 240gb samsung 840 pro 500gb samsung 850evo x 3 Hitachi X300 6tb HDD LG blueray burner/player absolutelly ZERO cable management (i'm too lazy)
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qbvbsite
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Re: 1080 FTW exploded (now dead) and took other parts with it.
2016/11/16 08:35:08
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nycalex80 i'm getting my replacement 1080 from evga as i type this. once i get replacement, it's going straight to ebay. Cannot risk damaging my newly built $2k system. if my card explodes and damages my samsung 960 pro, i'll probably kill somebody. don't get me wrong, i'll still buy EVGA products. but this generation of 1070 and 1080 cards with acx 3.0 cooling left a sour taste. i do not feel safe in having one of these in my rig. As much as EVGA tried to alleviate the situation, i strongly believe they should have recalled these cards OFFICIALY. There's not a single mention of this design fault on their website. You have to understand, not everyone checks manufacturer's forums. A lot of major Computer tech media groups have publicized this flaw and have a link to this forum. However, it seems to me EVGA is trying to downplay the severity of the situation. And this to me is a no-no. Aside from the fear of damaging other components (for now it seems it's very rare), i fear the loss of value on these cards in the long run. How are we going to get compensated for future loss of value? It reminds me of the whole VW diesel fiasco.
To be honest this can happen with any card and once the Thermal mod is applied the chances of it happening is probably the same as any card.
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Seb6440
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Re: 1080 FTW exploded (now dead) and took other parts with it.
2016/11/16 08:37:08
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So it was 65°C when exploding? I'm now wondering because Im wating for RMA with my 1080 ftw in my case (which has black screen and 100%fans issue). I will come back to my 970 to be 100% safe ... Now, I cant understand why there wasn't any recall.
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arestavo
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Re: 1080 FTW exploded (now dead) and took other parts with it.
2016/11/16 08:56:06
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If it's within the expected failure rate for electronics then why would they recall it? It's not like other cards from other manufacturers have never done this and weren't recalled. I've read of 3 or 4 on these forums so far, and only EVGA knows how many have this issue through RMAs. If it reaches the point where it is obviously a bad batch of components then I trust them to do the right thing.
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Re: 1080 FTW exploded (now dead) and took other parts with it.
2016/11/16 09:10:59
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Seb6440 So it was 65°C when exploding? I'm now wondering because Im wating for RMA with my 1080 ftw in my case (which has black screen and 100%fans issue). I will come back to my 970 to be 100% safe ... Now, I cant understand why there wasn't any recall.
Without a real count of how many cards have had this issue (This being only the 4th Card) reported here on the Forum I see no need for a recall. Their are a lot of reasons why the OPs Card sorted out, this will take time for EVGA to Review The Card Once in Hand. Allow EVGA to work this issue and then if needed post what the outcome was.
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rjohnson11
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Re: 1080 FTW exploded (now dead) and took other parts with it.
2016/11/16 09:23:50
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I have referred your post to EVGA
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Re: 1080 FTW exploded (now dead) and took other parts with it.
2016/11/16 09:25:26
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rjohnson11 I have referred your post to EVGA
So did I ;-P
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Piers123
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Re: 1080 FTW exploded (now dead) and took other parts with it.
2016/11/16 09:30:02
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Scarlet-Tech
rjohnson11 I have referred your post to EVGA
So did I ;-P
I have also created a ticket with EVGA support, but I informed the gentleman I spoke with that I would be posting on here and reddit. Had the US "support" been more supportive, I would have happily kept this private.
CPU: Intel i7 6700k @ 4.7Ghz (1.325v)Cooling: Corsair H110i GT CPU CoolingMotherboard: Asus Maximus VIII Hero Z170RAM: Kingston 32GB FuryX DDR4 2667 @2666MHz (1.200v/15-15-15-34)GPU: EVGA GTX 1080 FTW 8GB @~2100/10962 (+80%/130%/88°C/+Curve/+475 - Extra 50 MHz with Curve)HDD: 5* 4TB WD REDOS SSD: 1* Samsung 850 Evo 500GB SSDGaming SSD: 1* OCZ 500GB SSDCase: Corsair Obsidian 750DPSU: Corsair RM850X PSUMonitor: AOC U3277PQU 32" [link=mailto:3840x2160@60Hz]3840x2160@60Hz[/link] Some of the above parts no longer work due to damage from my EVGA 1080 FTW.
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EVGA_JanJ
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Re: 1080 FTW exploded (now dead) and took other parts with it.
2016/11/16 09:42:46
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Hi Piers123, first of all i wanna say sorry for the indeed extraordinary case you had to experience here. To help you as fast as possible, would you please send me a mail to jjonas@evga.com with your details and maybe also your mobile number so we can get this cleared and fixed the fastest way. Thanks already for the detailed pictures – first feedback we can give so far, is that it is not related to any overheating, and more highly an electronic defect, but to get an even better look at it we would also like to pick up the card. Thanks for your cooperation and talk to you soon Jan
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Seb6440
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Re: 1080 FTW exploded (now dead) and took other parts with it.
2016/11/16 09:43:09
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I put my card out of my case, it's more safe awaiting RMA.
post edited by Seb6440 - 2016/11/16 09:48:41
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haris525
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Re: 1080 FTW exploded (now dead) and took other parts with it.
2016/11/16 10:32:01
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sorry for your loss - it is truly frustrating, when a work machine goes down. I hope evga will handle the situation fairly. #makeEVGAgreatagain2017!
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Piers123
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Re: 1080 FTW exploded (now dead) and took other parts with it.
2016/11/16 21:35:37
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EVGA_JanJ Hi Piers123, first of all i wanna say sorry for the indeed extraordinary case you had to experience here. To help you as fast as possible, would you please send me a mail to jjonas@evga.com with your details and maybe also your mobile number so we can get this cleared and fixed the fastest way. Thanks already for the detailed pictures – first feedback we can give so far, is that it is not related to any overheating, and more highly an electronic defect, but to get an even better look at it we would also like to pick up the card. Thanks for your cooperation and talk to you soon Jan
I have sent an email. I just realised that I forgot to include my serial number! I'll send another email.
CPU: Intel i7 6700k @ 4.7Ghz (1.325v)Cooling: Corsair H110i GT CPU CoolingMotherboard: Asus Maximus VIII Hero Z170RAM: Kingston 32GB FuryX DDR4 2667 @2666MHz (1.200v/15-15-15-34)GPU: EVGA GTX 1080 FTW 8GB @~2100/10962 (+80%/130%/88°C/+Curve/+475 - Extra 50 MHz with Curve)HDD: 5* 4TB WD REDOS SSD: 1* Samsung 850 Evo 500GB SSDGaming SSD: 1* OCZ 500GB SSDCase: Corsair Obsidian 750DPSU: Corsair RM850X PSUMonitor: AOC U3277PQU 32" [link=mailto:3840x2160@60Hz]3840x2160@60Hz[/link] Some of the above parts no longer work due to damage from my EVGA 1080 FTW.
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Re: 1080 FTW exploded (now dead) and took other parts with it.
2016/11/16 21:38:52
(permalink)
Sorry this happened to you. Evga will help you out.
My Affiliate Code: 8WEQVXMCJL
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Re: 1080 FTW exploded (now dead) and took other parts with it.
2016/11/16 22:16:09
(permalink)
I'm sure EVGA will take care of you. I remember when my 780 Classified blew up, they replaced it no questions asked. I've owned many EVGA cards, and that was the only problem I've had.
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Piers123
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Re: 1080 FTW exploded (now dead) and took other parts with it.
2016/11/16 22:43:46
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aberdie I'm sure EVGA will take care of you. I remember when my 780 Classified blew up, they replaced it no questions asked. I've owned many EVGA cards, and that was the only problem I've had.
I'm not doubting EVGA will replace the card - they have to under UK law. My concern is the other parts not made by EVGA but damaged or potentially damaged by the card. I've only had one component fail in a similar manner, and that was a PSU that caught fire when turning it on the for the first time. This was 19 years ago and the retailer rectified the situation straight away. That was also the last time I purchased a cheap PSU.
CPU: Intel i7 6700k @ 4.7Ghz (1.325v)Cooling: Corsair H110i GT CPU CoolingMotherboard: Asus Maximus VIII Hero Z170RAM: Kingston 32GB FuryX DDR4 2667 @2666MHz (1.200v/15-15-15-34)GPU: EVGA GTX 1080 FTW 8GB @~2100/10962 (+80%/130%/88°C/+Curve/+475 - Extra 50 MHz with Curve)HDD: 5* 4TB WD REDOS SSD: 1* Samsung 850 Evo 500GB SSDGaming SSD: 1* OCZ 500GB SSDCase: Corsair Obsidian 750DPSU: Corsair RM850X PSUMonitor: AOC U3277PQU 32" [link=mailto:3840x2160@60Hz]3840x2160@60Hz[/link] Some of the above parts no longer work due to damage from my EVGA 1080 FTW.
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Punished Snake
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Re: 1080 FTW exploded (now dead) and took other parts with it.
2016/11/17 01:01:38
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I feel like every EVGA 10 Series User needs to use a PCIe riser to protect their motherboard
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OctavianH
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Re: 1080 FTW exploded (now dead) and took other parts with it.
2016/11/17 02:03:51
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When have you bought the card? For how many months you had these issues? And yes, Asus Sabertooth FTW to be sure noting is damaged there...
Desktop1: 4790K@4.5GHz/32GB DDR3 1866MHz CL9/2xEVGA GTX 1070 FTW/512GB Samsung 850 PRO Desktop2: 4670K@4.4GHz/16GB DDR3 1600MHz CL9/HD 4600/120GB Samsung 840 EVO Laptop: Clevo 650RP6-G (6700HQ/32GB DDR4 2133MHz CL13/GTX 1060/240GB Kingston UV400) Server: HP MicroServer Gen8 (Xeon 1265L V2/16GB DDR3 1600MHz/240GB Samsung 850 PRO + 4x4TB WD Red)
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carb1de
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Re: 1080 FTW exploded (now dead) and took other parts with it.
2016/11/17 02:28:55
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FTW? sometimes it sounds like invasion of the body snatchers on here! EVGA_JanJ sorry for the indeed extraordinary case you had to experience here.
it is an extraordinary case that a card has burned out despite EVGA scrambling to rectify all the overheating issues plagued by this generation? The other cases? the components not even contacting the heatsink? the testing showing VRM at 107°C in an open test bench?! EVGA_JanJ it is not related to any overheating,
I'm no expert here, but, that appears to be right over the VRM area of a card with no thermal pads. Whilst anything 'could' fail at any moment for any manner of reasons, and we'll never know otherwise, I'd wager it would have stood a better chance at survival running at cooler temps. Trying to calm the public making wild statements before support has even tested the card just sounds like damage control and raises further suspicion about the issue!
post edited by rjohnson11 - 2016/11/17 04:02:53
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