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Helpful ReplyHot!unresponsive audio effects tab

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RadioHorst
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Re: unresponsive audio effects tab 2019/10/16 08:58:20 (permalink)
CivicMinded
.......Interestingly, the Advanced EQ halfway works.  Any adjustments below zero work fine.  Any adjustments above zero have no effect.  .....


same problem here with 0.2.0.7
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LCaldas
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Re: unresponsive audio effects tab 2019/10/20 15:39:47 (permalink)
To me, all work fine.
I guess.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-qINsLeF-o
 
 Time of this report: 10/20/2019, 19:37:01
             Machine name: DESKTOP-MDSR91M
               Machine Id: {}
         Operating System: Windows 10 Pro 64-bit (10.0, Build 18362) (18362.19h1_release.190318-1202)
                 Language: Portuguese (Regional Setting: Portuguese)
      System Manufacturer: Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd.
             System Model: X470 AORUS ULTRA GAMING
                     BIOS: F40 (type: UEFI)
                Processor: AMD Ryzen 5 2400G with Radeon Vega Graphics     (8 CPUs), ~3.6GHz
                   Memory: 16384MB RAM
      Available OS Memory: 16326MB RAM
                Page File: 9108MB used, 9649MB available
              Windows Dir: C:\WINDOWS
          DirectX Version: DirectX 12
      DX Setup Parameters: Not found
         User DPI Setting: 96 DPI (100 percent)
       System DPI Setting: 96 DPI (100 percent)
          DWM DPI Scaling: Disabled
                 Miracast: Available, with HDCP
Microsoft Graphics Hybrid: Not Supported
 DirectX Database Version: Unknown
           DxDiag Version: 10.00.18362.0387 64bit Unicode
 
#32
youcanteatthat
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Re: unresponsive audio effects tab 2019/10/22 14:19:48 (permalink)
i am still having the issue
 
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EVGATech_LeeM
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Re: unresponsive audio effects tab 2019/10/28 10:18:42 (permalink)
So, the good news is that I hear we have a driver from Nahimic that is currently undergoing testing and it looks good so far.  ETA for an integrated driver is next week.
 
RadioHorst
CivicMinded
.......Interestingly, the Advanced EQ halfway works.  Any adjustments below zero work fine.  Any adjustments above zero have no effect.  .....

same problem here with 0.2.0.7

That's overpower protection kicking in.  This happens if master volume is 100% and some EQ settings are pushed into positive territory.  Lower master volume a little and you should be able to get EQ working again.
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CivicMinded
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Re: unresponsive audio effects tab 2019/10/28 17:27:37 (permalink)
EVGATech_LeeM
 
CivicMinded
.......Interestingly, the Advanced EQ halfway works.  Any adjustments below zero work fine.  Any adjustments above zero have no effect.  .....

 
That's overpower protection kicking in.  This happens if master volume is 100% and some EQ settings are pushed into positive territory.  Lower master volume a little and you should be able to get EQ working again.


 
Well, that's encouraging at least.  However it does go counter to this earlier post back in January:
 
EVGATech_LeeM
Most importantly, you should always follow the result that gives you the best performance and experience.
 
For the record, however, from our engineers and Audio Note's engineers, when using the Headphone out it's recommended to actually set the Windows/Main volume to 100%, and then raise the Headphone volume slider from 0% until the audio level is sufficient for your headphones.  When the main volume is at 100%, that's the default volume level for the Software side before being passed to the audio card.  Therefore, lowering the volume is simply making the original signal quieter, which may or may not reduce the dynamic range of the source, and will occur before the DAC processes the audio.  When using the Headphone amp, you're adding power to the headphones to drive the signal properly, but if Windows/Main volume is lower, then you're amping an artificially quieter signal and giving more power than the headphone actually needs.  This can also have the added side-effect of adding more noise to the source because the amp is now working harder to bring the signal level back up to the original level.  Because of these interactions, it's possible that the final outcome may result in a signal that does not actually match the source audio (although we're really only talking about a slight difference).
 
Generally, the last volume control in your signal chain should be what you use to increase/decrease the volume.  Everything that comes before (in this case, just Windows/Main volume) should be set to 100% (or very close to 100%; some opinions vary, so just stating that for the record). 
 
Examples of some common scenarios.  For simplicity's sake, assume I'm referring to an integrated amp here, and we'll leave the pre-amp/amp discussion for another day:
  • Windows/Main (100%) -> NU Audio Card -> (DAC) -> NU Audio Card Headphone Amp (Control Volume Here) -> Headphone Out -> Headphones
  • Windows/Main (Control Volume Here) -> NU Audio Card -> (DAC) -> Line Out  -> RCA to 3.5mm / 6.3mm adapter -> Headphones
  • Windows/Main (100%) -> NU Audio Card -> (DAC) -> Line Out  -> RCA to 3.5mm / 6.3mm adapter / RCA cables -> Amp (Control Volume Here) -> Headphones
  • Windows/Main (100%) -> NU Audio Card -> (DAC) -> Line Out -> Powered Speakers (Control Volume Here)
  • Windows/Main (100%) -> NU Audio Card -> (DAC) -> Line Out -> Receiver/Amp (Control Volume Here) -> Passive Speakers 
  • Windows/Main (100%) -> NU Audio Card -> (DAC) -> S/PDIF Out -> Powered Speakers / Sound Bar (Control Volume Here) 
  • Windows/Main (100%) -> NU Audio Card -> (DAC) -> S/PDIF Out -> TV / Receiver (Control Volume Here) -> Passive Speakers 
Yes, I'm going to take a pass on S/PDIF to TVs with sound bars, since there are too many combinations and TV/sound bar interactions for this sort of post, lol.
 
Now, bear in mind that there's currently no way to change the Headphone volume in the NU Audio Software without Alt-Tabbing out of a program or manually moving it up or down in the NU Audio software, so I can understand that people might want to have some flexibility to raise and lower the Windows volume using hotkeys or through the actual program.  That may require a bit of testing to find the right balance (e.g. set Windows/Main volume between 75-90% and find a good balance with the Headphone volume).  
 
Ultimately, the OP's suggestion and my post here both recommend essentially the same tactic, but from different ends.  Whichever way you find better for your own listening, start by setting one to a fixed value and work on the other to adjust the volume level, and then stick with that process so that your listening experience remains consistent.  


 
I have to admit, this sort of conflicting info just makes the situation all the more confusing.  On the one hand, the engineers are suggesting that to get the very best sound out of the card, you should use 100% master volume.  On the other hand, the engineers also built in a protection preventing use of the EQ settings should you actually set your master volume to 100%.  At the absolute least, a notification in the software alerting you to this restriction would be super helpful, and save a lot of people this confusion.  Thank you for the updates, however.  Glad to see you guys are working through the issues.
post edited by CivicMinded - 2019/10/28 18:09:02
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EVGATech_LeeM
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Re: unresponsive audio effects tab 2019/10/28 18:01:47 (permalink)
CivicMinded
EVGATech_LeeM
 
CivicMinded
.......Interestingly, the Advanced EQ halfway works.  Any adjustments below zero work fine.  Any adjustments above zero have no effect.  .....

 
That's overpower protection kicking in.  This happens if master volume is 100% and some EQ settings are pushed into positive territory.  Lower master volume a little and you should be able to get EQ working again.


 
Well, that's encouraging at least.  However it does go counter this earlier post back in January:
 
EVGATech_LeeM
Most importantly, you should always follow the result that gives you the best performance and experience.
 
For the record, however, from our engineers and Audio Note's engineers, when using the Headphone out it's recommended to actually set the Windows/Main volume to 100%, and then raise the Headphone volume slider from 0% until the audio level is sufficient for your headphones.  When the main volume is at 100%, that's the default volume level for the Software side before being passed to the audio card.  Therefore, lowering the volume is simply making the original signal quieter, which may or may not reduce the dynamic range of the source, and will occur before the DAC processes the audio.  When using the Headphone amp, you're adding power to the headphones to drive the signal properly, but if Windows/Main volume is lower, then you're amping an artificially quieter signal and giving more power than the headphone actually needs.  This can also have the added side-effect of adding more noise to the source because the amp is now working harder to bring the signal level back up to the original level.  Because of these interactions, it's possible that the final outcome may result in a signal that does not actually match the source audio (although we're really only talking about a slight difference).
 
Generally, the last volume control in your signal chain should be what you use to increase/decrease the volume.  Everything that comes before (in this case, just Windows/Main volume) should be set to 100% (or very close to 100%; some opinions vary, so just stating that for the record). 
 
Examples of some common scenarios.  For simplicity's sake, assume I'm referring to an integrated amp here, and we'll leave the pre-amp/amp discussion for another day:
  • Windows/Main (100%) -> NU Audio Card -> (DAC) -> NU Audio Card Headphone Amp (Control Volume Here) -> Headphone Out -> Headphones
  • Windows/Main (Control Volume Here) -> NU Audio Card -> (DAC) -> Line Out  -> RCA to 3.5mm / 6.3mm adapter -> Headphones
  • Windows/Main (100%) -> NU Audio Card -> (DAC) -> Line Out  -> RCA to 3.5mm / 6.3mm adapter / RCA cables -> Amp (Control Volume Here) -> Headphones
  • Windows/Main (100%) -> NU Audio Card -> (DAC) -> Line Out -> Powered Speakers (Control Volume Here)
  • Windows/Main (100%) -> NU Audio Card -> (DAC) -> Line Out -> Receiver/Amp (Control Volume Here) -> Passive Speakers 
  • Windows/Main (100%) -> NU Audio Card -> (DAC) -> S/PDIF Out -> Powered Speakers / Sound Bar (Control Volume Here) 
  • Windows/Main (100%) -> NU Audio Card -> (DAC) -> S/PDIF Out -> TV / Receiver (Control Volume Here) -> Passive Speakers 
Yes, I'm going to take a pass on S/PDIF to TVs with sound bars, since there are too many combinations and TV/sound bar interactions for this sort of post, lol.
 
Now, bear in mind that there's currently no way to change the Headphone volume in the NU Audio Software without Alt-Tabbing out of a program or manually moving it up or down in the NU Audio software, so I can understand that people might want to have some flexibility to raise and lower the Windows volume using hotkeys or through the actual program.  That may require a bit of testing to find the right balance (e.g. set Windows/Main volume between 75-90% and find a good balance with the Headphone volume).  
 
Ultimately, the OP's suggestion and my post here both recommend essentially the same tactic, but from different ends.  Whichever way you find better for your own listening, start by setting one to a fixed value and work on the other to adjust the volume level, and then stick with that process so that your listening experience remains consistent.  


 
I have to admit, this sort of conflicting info just makes the situation all the more confusing.  On the one hand, the engineers are suggesting that to get the very best sound out of the card, you should use 100% master volume.  On the other hand, the engineers also built in a protection preventing use of the EQ settings should you actually set your master volume to 100%.  At the absolute least, a notification in the software alerting you to this restriction would be super helpful, and save a lot of people this confusion.  Thank you for the updates, however.  Glad to see you guys are working through the issues.


Yeah, my conversation with our Audio Team involved something to the effect of, "Oh, btw, forgot to tell you something...."
 
It's still sound advice to use master volume at 100% if you don't generally use EQ, or you tend to use EQ to only soften certain frequency ranges.  I can see, of course, how much it caused people to scratch their heads here on the forums.  Fortunately, we have a better explanation now for people.
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