Bee_Dee_3_Dee
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Re: stuck on post code 71
2022/07/19 06:56:22
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zippytek What paste is he using?
he said, "...Kingpin Extreme or KPX Thermal Paste". Edit: (See 19min 11sec for application)
> PSU: Seasonic VERTEX GX-1200> Mainboard: EVGA Z690 CLASSIFIED (BIOS v1.03 12/3/2021)> CPU: Intel Core i9-12900KF> AIO: EVGA CLC 240mm> Physical Memory: G.SKILL Trident Z5 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR5 5600> Physical Memory Model#: F5-5600U3636C16GX2-TZ5S> Monitor: Alienware AW2721D> Video Card: EVGA 3090 FTW3 ULTRA GAMING> Case: Cooler Master HAF X (942)> DAS: Sabrent DS-SC5B
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zippytek
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Re: stuck on post code 71
2022/07/19 07:12:56
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KPX is the goat although lots of the xoc community likes kryo x for gpu benches on LN2 as it is thicket and less prone to cracking down around fullpot. Edge case for sure but that is why it's so expensive. Designed for fullpot temps An unlapped gpu die w kpx is a crack fest. good times. not enough mounting pressure on planet earth
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B0baganoosh
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Re: stuck on post code 71
2022/07/19 07:30:11
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Jay even admits he uses way too much paste, but it seems he's trained himself to do that from LN2 runs.
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Bee_Dee_3_Dee
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Re: stuck on post code 71
2022/07/19 07:32:46
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zippytek KPX is the goat although lots of the xoc community likes kryo x for gpu benches on LN2 as it is thicket and less prone to cracking down around fullpot. Edge case for sure but that is why it's so expensive. Designed for fullpot temps An unlapped gpu die w kpx is a crack fest. good times. not enough mounting pressure on planet earth
ty got it. i don't ever lap. so to avoid the cracking i should use "kryo x", right? i'm always going to use an AIO, no Lapping, and no OCing. (No OC on my CPU, GPU, or RAM.) just whatever a vBIOS update gives for a GPU. (LUV my 3090 updated vBIOS. EVGA ROCKS!) are both "kryo x" and "KPX" non-conductive? and no search results for "kryo x thermal paste". is "kryo x" correct name? ty again
> PSU: Seasonic VERTEX GX-1200> Mainboard: EVGA Z690 CLASSIFIED (BIOS v1.03 12/3/2021)> CPU: Intel Core i9-12900KF> AIO: EVGA CLC 240mm> Physical Memory: G.SKILL Trident Z5 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR5 5600> Physical Memory Model#: F5-5600U3636C16GX2-TZ5S> Monitor: Alienware AW2721D> Video Card: EVGA 3090 FTW3 ULTRA GAMING> Case: Cooler Master HAF X (942)> DAS: Sabrent DS-SC5B
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B0baganoosh
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Re: stuck on post code 71
2022/07/19 07:47:55
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Zippy is talking about cracking during liquid nitrogen overclocking sessions. That wouldn't apply to you given the use-case you've suggested, Bee. Kryonaut extreme from Thermal Grizzly is the paste he was talking about for LN2 overclocking on lapped GPUs. Both KPx and Kryonaut are non-conductive (electrically).
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zippytek
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Re: stuck on post code 71
2022/07/19 08:10:20
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Bee_Dee_3_Dee
zippytek KPX is the goat although lots of the xoc community likes kryo x for gpu benches on LN2 as it is thicket and less prone to cracking down around fullpot. Edge case for sure but that is why it's so expensive. Designed for fullpot temps An unlapped gpu die w kpx is a crack fest. good times. not enough mounting pressure on planet earth
ty got it. i don't ever lap. so to avoid the cracking i should use "kryo x", right? i'm always going to use an AIO, no Lapping, and no OCing. (No OC on my CPU, GPU, or RAM.) just whatever a vBIOS update gives for a GPU. (LUV my 3090 updated vBIOS. EVGA ROCKS!) are both "kryo x" and "KPX" non-conductive? and no search results for "kryo x thermal paste". is "kryo x" correct name? ty again
yeah you don't want to use Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut Extreme (kryo x for short) for a daily rig. Way overkill. The "cracking" is the paste cracking when it freezes from liquid nitrogen. For daily rigs, even kpx is overkill but it performs very well so it is popular. If cost isn't a factor, I will always recommend KPX. https://www.thermal-grizzly.com/en/products/359-kryonaut-extreme-en here's one of biso biso's videos where you can see the kryonaut extreme on the gpu he's running cold: https://youtu.be/ccWwAc4iRE8?t=19
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Bee_Dee_3_Dee
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Re: stuck on post code 71
2022/07/19 08:29:37
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B0baganoosh Zippy is talking about cracking during liquid nitrogen overclocking sessions. That wouldn't apply to you given the use-case you've suggested, Bee. Kryonaut extreme from Thermal Grizzly is the paste he was talking about for LN2 overclocking on lapped GPUs. Both KPx and Kryonaut are non-conductive (electrically).
k ty. it's Kingpin Extreme (KPX) Thermal Paste for me. and being non-conductive (electrically) means that is safer; but always read up and understand fully, right? (Example: start maybe with fully reading the manual. then web searches and article reading and youtubes.) ty again zippytek
Bee_Dee_3_Dee
zippytek KPX is the goat although lots of the xoc community likes kryo x for gpu benches on LN2 as it is thicket and less prone to cracking down around fullpot. Edge case for sure but that is why it's so expensive. Designed for fullpot temps An unlapped gpu die w kpx is a crack fest. good times. not enough mounting pressure on planet earth
ty got it. i don't ever lap. so to avoid the cracking i should use "kryo x", right? i'm always going to use an AIO, no Lapping, and no OCing. (No OC on my CPU, GPU, or RAM.) just whatever a vBIOS update gives for a GPU. (LUV my 3090 updated vBIOS. EVGA ROCKS!) are both "kryo x" and "KPX" non-conductive? and no search results for "kryo x thermal paste". is "kryo x" correct name? ty again!
yeah you don't want to use Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut Extreme (kryo x for short) for a daily rig. Way overkill. The "cracking" is the paste cracking when it freezes from liquid nitrogen. For daily rigs, even kpx is overkill but it performs very well so it is popular. If cost isn't a factor, I will always recommend KPX. https://www.thermal-grizzly.com/en/products/359-kryonaut-extreme-en here's one of biso biso's videos where you can see the kryonaut extreme on the gpu he's running cold: https://youtu.be/ccWwAc4iRE8?t=19
ty cost is not a factor -- when it comes to u get wat u pay for. but, wat about investment as far as the time KPX Thermal Paste might sit on the shelf before going bad or u'd suggest throwing it out and replacing it? ty again!
> PSU: Seasonic VERTEX GX-1200> Mainboard: EVGA Z690 CLASSIFIED (BIOS v1.03 12/3/2021)> CPU: Intel Core i9-12900KF> AIO: EVGA CLC 240mm> Physical Memory: G.SKILL Trident Z5 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR5 5600> Physical Memory Model#: F5-5600U3636C16GX2-TZ5S> Monitor: Alienware AW2721D> Video Card: EVGA 3090 FTW3 ULTRA GAMING> Case: Cooler Master HAF X (942)> DAS: Sabrent DS-SC5B
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zippytek
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Re: stuck on post code 71
2022/07/19 11:34:04
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Bee_Dee_3_Dee but, wat about investment as far as the time KPX Thermal Paste might sit on the shelf before going bad or u'd suggest throwing it out and replacing it?
i wouldn't suggest buying more than you'll reasonably use in a few months time. the larger tubs and tubes are for folks who are benching a lot or doing many builds per week, when you may have several chips on the bench in the same week, or are working on perfecting a GPU mount for liquid nitrogen. when you need to get the pressure just right to prevent cracks, you can repaste many times in a single session. for the average user doing a build every year or two, a couple of the smallest tubes is plenty. maybe the next size up if you have multiple machines
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Bee_Dee_3_Dee
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Re: stuck on post code 71
2022/07/19 11:51:09
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zippytek
Bee_Dee_3_Dee but, wat about investment as far as the time KPX Thermal Paste might sit on the shelf before going bad or u'd suggest throwing it out and replacing it?
i wouldn't suggest buying more than you'll reasonably use in a few months time. the larger tubs and tubes are for folks who are benching a lot or doing many builds per week, when you may have several chips on the bench in the same week, or are working on perfecting a GPU mount for liquid nitrogen. when you need to get the pressure just right to prevent cracks, you can repaste many times in a single session. for the average user doing a build every year or two, a couple of the smallest tubes is plenty. maybe the next size up if you have multiple machines
cool. if i need it i'll amazon prime a small amount. ty
> PSU: Seasonic VERTEX GX-1200> Mainboard: EVGA Z690 CLASSIFIED (BIOS v1.03 12/3/2021)> CPU: Intel Core i9-12900KF> AIO: EVGA CLC 240mm> Physical Memory: G.SKILL Trident Z5 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR5 5600> Physical Memory Model#: F5-5600U3636C16GX2-TZ5S> Monitor: Alienware AW2721D> Video Card: EVGA 3090 FTW3 ULTRA GAMING> Case: Cooler Master HAF X (942)> DAS: Sabrent DS-SC5B
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B0baganoosh
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Re: stuck on post code 71
2022/07/22 10:14:24
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I'll have to swing back from my desktop and fix these pictures, but here's what my paste looked like when I took the block off today I'm at the hardware store to get some bolts for my new backplate. It is actually much thicker and stiffer than I expected. I think the threads will be fine.
post edited by B0baganoosh - 2022/07/22 16:04:47
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B0baganoosh
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Re: stuck on post code 71
2022/07/22 16:00:11
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Well, I've fought with this thing for hours today. I've tried every interval of pressure on the TG frame and none of them will boot. The factory ILM boots at stock clocks, but it isn't even stable in Windows. I'm getting to the point where I'm pretty sure my cpu is bad and the frame stuff has all been a red herring.
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Bee_Dee_3_Dee
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Re: stuck on post code 71
2022/07/23 04:52:20
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@B0baganoosh, DP cable tested/ replaced it?
> PSU: Seasonic VERTEX GX-1200> Mainboard: EVGA Z690 CLASSIFIED (BIOS v1.03 12/3/2021)> CPU: Intel Core i9-12900KF> AIO: EVGA CLC 240mm> Physical Memory: G.SKILL Trident Z5 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR5 5600> Physical Memory Model#: F5-5600U3636C16GX2-TZ5S> Monitor: Alienware AW2721D> Video Card: EVGA 3090 FTW3 ULTRA GAMING> Case: Cooler Master HAF X (942)> DAS: Sabrent DS-SC5B
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zippytek
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Re: stuck on post code 71
2022/07/23 05:59:58
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was thinking on this today and remembered you said with the stock ILM and clocks it won't boost above 4.9? this is the "turbo ratio" bullet in this bios release https://forums.evga.com/BIOS-Updates-for-Z690-DARK-KNGPN-114-CLASSIFIED-114-m3566111.aspx now did they fix it in 1.14? it sounds like maybe not, but what bios version are you on now? some folks noted that 12900K specifically has an issue with the evga boards that explains that behavior. are you able to run a milder manual oc with the stock ILM? i'm still not convinced it isn't the contact frames. sending you a PM shortly tho
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B0baganoosh
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Re: stuck on post code 71
2022/07/23 07:52:31
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Nope. Can't run any oc anymore. It still acts weird and crashes occasionally at default clocks on the stock ILM. I have tried 1.10, 1.12, and 1.14 bios. They did not fix that issue in 1.14.
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zippytek
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Re: stuck on post code 71
2022/07/23 08:45:07
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What did you torque the stock ILM back to when you reinstalled it? I assumed you’re using a torque driver so if you can share the specs for that and for the frame that will help.
Basically everyone I’ve talked to about this doesn’t think it’s the cpu. You modified the board so that is most likely the culprit here. I can send you a celeron to test but you need to make sure the stock ILM is torqued to factory specs. Do you have those? If not I can look in to it but I’ve not removed the ILM in any of my 12th gen boards so I don’t have it here.
What do the TG frame instructions say for torque specs? Of all of them that would be the most likely to work fine if it’s installed correctly.
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B0baganoosh
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Re: stuck on post code 71
2022/07/23 09:38:52
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The stock ILM screws should be put in with ~8 inch-pounds of torque. I had previously re-installed it after trying the Amify frame unsuccessfully and it worked fine again for a while, albeit at elevated temperatures. I followed the TG instructions when I installed that one, which involves using the markings in the corners and watching how many degrees you turn each screw (cross tightening) after you get them all to finger snug. I followed der8aurs YouTube video instructions as the frame itself doesn't come with any. Edit: I can try to get some more information later, but I'm out of town this weekend and on my phone so pictures, links, and specifics you'd want from the thing will have to wait.
post edited by B0baganoosh - 2022/07/23 09:52:58
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B0baganoosh
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Re: stuck on post code 71
2022/07/28 14:08:17
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I had to write this down somewhere and figured here was as good a place as any. I haven't had any time to actually dig into this physically, but I've had a few minutes here and there to catch up on what's going on with other people on the forums and do some research. EVGA tech support responded with when I put in a question about all the issues, primarily the POST code 71 issue: "POST code 71 seems to refer to the systems management mode, which controls everything from the fans to the processor. Can you confirm that there are no bent pins in your CPU socket? Also, have you tested the RAM sticks individually to see if one causes an issue while the others work? Trying the g6900 would definitely assist with confirming the 12900k is not defective as well. Please get back to us with additional information so we can further assist you." I've looked at my socket from every angle and can't find anything out of alignment or any problems there. They're wondering about memory, but I haven't tried to see if removing one stick would help with the POST code 71 issue. I did notice some really odd looking behavior with the voltages, but some others have seen that too, so I want to see if that goes away when I roll back to 1.10. Basically, the XMP profile sets the voltage at 1.35, but when I look at it, one DIMM sits at 1.35 and the other bounces around to 1.365 and I've even seen 1.385 (this is on BIOS 1.14). No idea why one would just be bouncing around. I tried to reseat them, but beyond that I haven't done the whole one-stick at a time in different slots thing. I would expect a different POST code if the memory was failing. Looking at some of the other posts around here from tresnugget, I believe the SPD CPU-z crash is not my CPU's fault, other than there's some general issue with this gen. My old z590 FTW board never reported SPD to CPU-z. There was never anything populated there...ever...but it also never crashed, I only reference this as maybe EVGA has a little trouble with SPD reporting lol. I have no need to look at that either, so I was planning to just put in that config edit Zippy suggested on the other thread. Also, I wanted to try turning off HWiNFO and then running it to see if having both open was causing problems. So to summarize: 1. POST Code 71 - No idea yet. Can't OC. Sometimes can't run stock. Seems like frame could have been a factor, but I need to test the g6900 I ordered that's supposed to get here this weekend to see if the CPU itself has an issue. Also need to test older BIOS. Maybe 1.09 even. 2. CPU-z freeze at SPD. - This might be 12th-gen general issue. Might also be conflict with HWiNFO. Going to disable SPD in config at minimum as I don't need it. 3. Intel XTU V/F curve reading causes instant BSOD. - I'd love someone else to confirm if they've seen this. This is at default CPU settings (no-OC). 4. "the memory has changed" at startup, ending up in BIOS setup. - I've seen this once, only since going to 1.14. Again, going to try rolling back to 1.10 to see if that helps. 5. memory voltage on one DIMM fluctuating when looking at it in BIOS. - Again, going to try older BIOS. I don't think I looked much, but I don't remember it doing that before I got to 1.14. As for the socket question, I took three different pictures because looking at it in person I see no issues (with my 20/20 vision) and looking at one picture, the glare tends to make you think "oh, what's that"...but looking at another picture you can see it was just an odd reflection. So I tried no flash, flash, and external light-source to see if any of them made for a better picture: These blow up huge in a new tab, so if anybody wants to double-check with me, have at it:
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B0baganoosh
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Re: stuck on post code 71
2022/08/01 17:07:30
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So far, I've tested the following: (still get memory has changed error on 1.14). booted just long enough to download 1.10 again. -While in Windows on 1.14 with 12900k, disabled SPD from CPU-z config file, closed HWiNFO and opened CPU-z perfectly fine. Forgot to test XTU with HWiNFO closed or try CPU-z with HWiNFO closed. -Rolled BIOS to 1.10, set fan settings, etc. Installed G6900. -Running G6900, I can: -load CPU-z with SPD enabled. XMP runs fine. Don't get "memory has changed" error when booting (thanks to 1.10). -Ran CPU-z bench, running Cinebench r23 right now. Boy is this G6900 screaming on my 420mm radiator (I think I saw 40°C once). -I can open HWiNFO, I can open XTU (there's no OC-ing, and no V/F curve info to read though). I'm just trying to get it warmed up so I can then reboot and see if I get the POST Code 71. No idea if heat is a factor at all, but time seemed to be here and there, so I figured I'd let it run a few minutes. -I can also have HWiNFO running, then run CPU-z with SPD enabled in the config file. More to follow, I just wanted to write down what I've done so far so I don't have to remember all of it later.
post edited by B0baganoosh - 2022/08/01 17:09:50
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Bee_Dee_3_Dee
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Re: stuck on post code 71
2022/08/01 17:56:00
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@B0baganoosh, so with G6900 + v1.10 u can run not just once, but several times per session, CPU-Z + HWiFO? And each time successfully access SDP Tab? If so, then it's 12900K's fault(?) i'm guessing. Because that leaves combinations of software updates for CPU-Z and HWiFO as a possible solution(?) guessing again. What about, if Code 71 never comes back with 12900K + v1.10 BIOS, as a result of never loading any monitoring software in Windows, and successfully OCing with just a close-eye then, say using the Probelt Connector connected to something, for monitoring temps while bench-marking? (Because then blame could be placed on monitoring software running in Windows?) ^^starting with the smallest of OC of course for hypothetical reasons. Or is Code 71 inevitable with 12900K when OCing? I'm still betting on EVGA's v1.15+. GL
> PSU: Seasonic VERTEX GX-1200> Mainboard: EVGA Z690 CLASSIFIED (BIOS v1.03 12/3/2021)> CPU: Intel Core i9-12900KF> AIO: EVGA CLC 240mm> Physical Memory: G.SKILL Trident Z5 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR5 5600> Physical Memory Model#: F5-5600U3636C16GX2-TZ5S> Monitor: Alienware AW2721D> Video Card: EVGA 3090 FTW3 ULTRA GAMING> Case: Cooler Master HAF X (942)> DAS: Sabrent DS-SC5B
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B0baganoosh
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Re: stuck on post code 71
2022/08/01 18:23:00
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8/1 update 2 (was going to edit previous post as I didn't expect any responses so fast, but there was one, so here's #2): Just to be clear, the aftermarket frames are no longer in the system. I double-checked my EK backplate torque and the torque on the ILM screws to make sure there were no issues there. Re-installed 12900k, booted Windows at default settings, closed HWiNFO64, opened CPU-z (SPD enabled), and it opened fine. Ran the stress test with CPU-z, no problem. Just because I wanted to make sure, I repaired the Intel ME installation (using file from EVGA site), and re-installed the chipset drivers. rebooted, ran the OC-Robot and BIOS Stress test a couple times, no problem, so I put a little overclock on and it booted up fine. -Closed HWiNFO64, opened CPU-z, no problem. -ran r23, no problem. -ran 3D Mark CPU profile, no problem. Ran time spy CPU test looped 10 times, no problem. (brb) -Opened CPU-z again, no problem! So now for the long-term test, as this all used to work. I have to wait at least 1 day, maybe more, and do some cold boots. That's where I started finding problems before. Edit: ALSO! this was weird. Somehow, last time I was trying to update this board to 1.14, the USB drive that came with the motherboard completely failed on me when the system rebooted. It isn't even recognized as a drive in Windows anymore. It is completely dead.
post edited by B0baganoosh - 2022/08/01 18:30:33
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B0baganoosh
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Re: stuck on post code 71
2022/08/01 18:28:04
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Bee_Dee_3_Dee @B0baganoosh, so with G6900 + v1.10 u can run not just once, but several times per session, CPU-Z + HWiFO? And each time successfully access SDP Tab? If so, then it's 12900K's fault(?) i'm guessing. Because that leaves combinations of software updates for CPU-Z and HWiFO as a possible solution(?) guessing again. What about, if Code 71 never comes back with 12900K + v1.10 BIOS, as a result of never loading any monitoring software in Windows, and successfully OCing with just a close-eye then, say using the Probelt Connector connected to something, for monitoring temps while bench-marking? (Because then blame could be placed on monitoring software running in Windows?) ^^starting with the smallest of OC of course for hypothetical reasons. Or is Code 71 inevitable with 12900K when OCing? I'm still betting on EVGA's v1.15+. GL
Yes, I could run CPU-z as many times as I wanted with no problems with the SPD with the G6900. Now I can run it multiple times with 12900k too (even with OC). I think it might really have a conflict with HWiNFO64. I can run one or the other no problem, but I'm guessing both running has an issue with 12900k sometimes as I'm not the only person to see this. Also, it all seems much better with BIOS 1.10. Currently, if this keeps working, I'm never updating the BIOS again on this CPU. Only time will tell if I start running into cold boot issues. Also, I will just hope I don't ever have IHS bending because I'm not risking one of these frames again.
6Q6CPFHPBPCU691 is a discount code anyone can use. i9 13900k - EVGA Z690 Classy - Nvidia RTX 4090 FE - G.Skill 32GB DDR5-6000 - WD SN850 2TB NVMe Gen4 - Be Quiet! Straight Power 12 1200W - Be Quiet! Dark Base 900 Pro. MO-RA3 420 Pro. Dark Palimpsest MODS RIGS post for build notes.
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Bee_Dee_3_Dee
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Re: stuck on post code 71
2022/08/01 18:51:26
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@B0baganoos, cool. so now it seems that things are leaning towards "aftermarket frames" + maybe the unique thickness of Classy's board? i least i hope that's all it is... plus a SPD bug still making all the difference. A difference as far as previous experiences going somewhat out the window and everything becoming like the a Twilight-Zone episode. Maybe u don't need an aftermarket frame on such a thick board. (fingers-crossed)
> PSU: Seasonic VERTEX GX-1200> Mainboard: EVGA Z690 CLASSIFIED (BIOS v1.03 12/3/2021)> CPU: Intel Core i9-12900KF> AIO: EVGA CLC 240mm> Physical Memory: G.SKILL Trident Z5 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR5 5600> Physical Memory Model#: F5-5600U3636C16GX2-TZ5S> Monitor: Alienware AW2721D> Video Card: EVGA 3090 FTW3 ULTRA GAMING> Case: Cooler Master HAF X (942)> DAS: Sabrent DS-SC5B
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zippytek
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Re: stuck on post code 71
2022/08/02 05:56:58
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B0baganoosh
Bee_Dee_3_Dee @B0baganoosh, so with G6900 + v1.10 u can run not just once, but several times per session, CPU-Z + HWiFO? And each time successfully access SDP Tab? If so, then it's 12900K's fault(?) i'm guessing. Because that leaves combinations of software updates for CPU-Z and HWiFO as a possible solution(?) guessing again. What about, if Code 71 never comes back with 12900K + v1.10 BIOS, as a result of never loading any monitoring software in Windows, and successfully OCing with just a close-eye then, say using the Probelt Connector connected to something, for monitoring temps while bench-marking? (Because then blame could be placed on monitoring software running in Windows?) ^^starting with the smallest of OC of course for hypothetical reasons. Or is Code 71 inevitable with 12900K when OCing? I'm still betting on EVGA's v1.15+. GL
Yes, I could run CPU-z as many times as I wanted with no problems with the SPD with the G6900. Now I can run it multiple times with 12900k too (even with OC). I think it might really have a conflict with HWiNFO64. I can run one or the other no problem, but I'm guessing both running has an issue with 12900k sometimes as I'm not the only person to see this. Also, it all seems much better with BIOS 1.10. Currently, if this keeps working, I'm never updating the BIOS again on this CPU. Only time will tell if I start running into cold boot issues. Also, I will just hope I don't ever have IHS bending because I'm not risking one of these frames again.
based on all of the above, i'm thinking the contact frame stuff may have been causing weirdness, BUT it seems like the issue was hwinfo this entire time. I don't know many folks who run it like you and tres do at startup, so that's great he was able to add that in his thread and it helped to narrow down some of the common issues. I never would have guessed that. Also good that it doesn't seem to be an issue with the CPU that needs an RMA. I think that's a good bin and if the other issues can be worked around or resolved with software updates, you'll be happy with it. FWIW, I am still running 1.09 on z690 dark due to issues reported around various things here and elsewhere. So I am with you on the bios updates being a double edged sword. This gen, it seems like the bios updates were more fixing issues reported than general stability, though I know there have been a few where they targeted mem training, bclk, etc...but these features are OC-centric and not all that useful for the average user, even if most folks may do a little oc--bclk? nah. edge case mem oc? also nah. i've always been pretty happy with their boards, but I think i'm going to give asrock/gigglebyte a shot next gen
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zippytek
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Re: stuck on post code 71
2022/08/02 05:59:50
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Bee_Dee_3_Dee @B0baganoos, cool. so now it seems that things are leaning towards "aftermarket frames" + maybe the unique thickness of Classy's board? i least i hope that's all it is... plus a SPD bug still making all the difference. A difference as far as previous experiences going somewhat out the window and everything becoming like the a Twilight-Zone episode. Maybe u don't need an aftermarket frame on such a thick board. (fingers-crossed)
tbh most people don't need a frame. it was designed to normalize the pcb stress on the cpu caused by the stock ilm...SO YOU COULD LAP THE IHS FLAT. This part is often lost on folks, but that's what it was built for. Will it help some without lapping? Sure, if installed correctly it should improve the paste spread (as seen in here as B0b's spread was pretty close to perfect with frame in place). Is it going to offer better long term stability than the stock ILM? I don't think many people can say for sure, as the frames are fairly new and don't have months of runtime to show for it. Time will tell. Let's hope intel gets the ILM right for raptor lake!
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B0baganoosh
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Re: stuck on post code 71
2022/08/02 06:49:11
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zippytek [post1:] based on all of the above, i'm thinking the contact frame stuff may have been causing weirdness, BUT it seems like the issue was hwinfo this entire time. I don't know many folks who run it like you and tres do at startup, so that's great he was able to add that in his thread and it helped to narrow down some of the common issues. I never would have guessed that. Also good that it doesn't seem to be an issue with the CPU that needs an RMA. I think that's a good bin and if the other issues can be worked around or resolved with software updates, you'll be happy with it. [snip..post2:] tbh most people don't need a frame. it was designed to normalize the pcb stress on the cpu caused by the stock ilm...SO YOU COULD LAP THE IHS FLAT. This part is often lost on folks, but that's what it was built for. Will it help some without lapping? Sure, if installed correctly it should improve the paste spread (as seen in here as B0b's spread was pretty close to perfect with frame in place). Is it going to offer better long term stability than the stock ILM? I don't think many people can say for sure, as the frames are fairly new and don't have months of runtime to show for it. Time will tell. Let's hope intel gets the ILM right for raptor lake!
I think the contact frame was definitely part of it. I also think the Optimus block and their mounting was part of it. EVGA's thicker board or the fact that things still flex when you tighten them down could also be a factor, but I'm not positive. I also had POST 71 issues with the stock ILM, but not until after I updated to 1.12 and 1.14. I had POST 71 issues with 1.10, but that was with the first contact frame I tried and then I went to 1.12, then switched frames, then 1.14, etc. This is why I was starting to break out all the different issues because there was more than one. I think I can summarize, but this is still a little pre-emptive because last time it worked perfectly for a while, then the POST code 71 issues crept in on cold boots. I have to wait a couple days before I can definitively say all is well. 1. I saw the PCB flexing when loosening the EK backplate this time. So that tells me maybe I had it too tight (pre-mounting the cold block). There's a cantilever effect as the metal backplate sits on the EVGA metal socket backplate and the tabs overhang the mounting holes. There's a rubber gasket they send with it that cushions that a bit, but it doesn't prevent some bending there. The stock Optimus hardware is just posts into the PCB holes with nuts on the back and nothing prevents the board from flexing. The EK backplate can help with this, but it all depends on how you tighten it, and it still isn't perfect. The ILM puts pressure on the front of the PCB while the TG frame does not. Nothing touches the front of the PCB with the TG frame. The Thermalright ones sit on the PCB as well, and so does the Amify one I tried (though minimally), so that might explain why that was actually a little more stable for me. I think what happens is you get the backplates and frames all sort of snug but they don't really hold anything in place, then the Optimus block requires you to crank it down and that can bend the board. This is a guess, but I think it is possible that was part of this issue. I never saw memory not working (save for the "memory has changed" message on bios 1.14 lol), so I didn't get the same issues Der8aur and Gamer's Nexus saw, but I did see this. I'm wondering if I just hadn't quite had the CPU-backplate flush to the board as perfectly as it needs to be since I had originally been manipulating it with no cooler backplate. I tried several techniques to account for this along the way, but maybe they didn't work. Again, I need to wait for some cold boots to see if time is still a factor here. 2. CPU-z/HWiNFO64. I think this was unrelated to the subject of this post. I noticed it at the same time, and I think this was a bit exacerbated by BIOS 1.12 and 1.14 as those added some instability. I didn't try to run both simultaneously, but I don't really need to. I will probably give this a shot though because it always worked before and there's no reason it shouldn't at my settings. This is totally unrelated to the POST code 71 issue because one happens in POST and the other is after you're in Windows. But when you're skeptical of your stability and then you try to run some tests and the system freezes when you try to open CPU-z (which you've done a hundred times before), you go "holy crap this doesn't even work". 3. The USB drive is weird. No idea why but it's completely dead. I was suspicious of this after it happened so I had actually put 1.14 on a different drive and re-flashed it. I also tried putting it on a different BIOS switch position from the 2nd USB drive and it didn't seem to be a factor, but I don't know why the USB drive died after the first time I flashed the BIOS to 1.14. Maybe I can get EVGA to send me a new one. I liked having that little key just for BIOS and settings pictures, etc. 4. As for EVGA's boards and the stock ILM, while I have seen some odd paste patterns initially and that's what made me look at getting the TG frame, check out the one I just took a picture of last night: The coverage is actually better than with the TG frame. Looking at the patterns, it looks like the pressure patterns are a bit different around the die area, but I would think both should perform really well. So I'm really hoping that I can fire things up for gaming this weekend (cold boot after a few days) and it all runs beautifully and I can just close the door on POST code 71.
6Q6CPFHPBPCU691 is a discount code anyone can use. i9 13900k - EVGA Z690 Classy - Nvidia RTX 4090 FE - G.Skill 32GB DDR5-6000 - WD SN850 2TB NVMe Gen4 - Be Quiet! Straight Power 12 1200W - Be Quiet! Dark Base 900 Pro. MO-RA3 420 Pro. Dark Palimpsest MODS RIGS post for build notes.
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zippytek
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Re: stuck on post code 71
2022/08/02 07:15:31
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B0baganoosh
zippytek [post1:] based on all of the above, i'm thinking the contact frame stuff may have been causing weirdness, BUT it seems like the issue was hwinfo this entire time. I don't know many folks who run it like you and tres do at startup, so that's great he was able to add that in his thread and it helped to narrow down some of the common issues. I never would have guessed that. Also good that it doesn't seem to be an issue with the CPU that needs an RMA. I think that's a good bin and if the other issues can be worked around or resolved with software updates, you'll be happy with it. [snip..post2:] tbh most people don't need a frame. it was designed to normalize the pcb stress on the cpu caused by the stock ilm...SO YOU COULD LAP THE IHS FLAT. This part is often lost on folks, but that's what it was built for. Will it help some without lapping? Sure, if installed correctly it should improve the paste spread (as seen in here as B0b's spread was pretty close to perfect with frame in place). Is it going to offer better long term stability than the stock ILM? I don't think many people can say for sure, as the frames are fairly new and don't have months of runtime to show for it. Time will tell. Let's hope intel gets the ILM right for raptor lake!
I think the contact frame was definitely part of it. I also think the Optimus block and their mounting was part of it. EVGA's thicker board or the fact that things still flex when you tighten them down could also be a factor, but I'm not positive. I also had POST 71 issues with the stock ILM, but not until after I updated to 1.12 and 1.14. I had POST 71 issues with 1.10, but that was with the first contact frame I tried and then I went to 1.12, then switched frames, then 1.14, etc. This is why I was starting to break out all the different issues because there was more than one. I think I can summarize, but this is still a little pre-emptive because last time it worked perfectly for a while, then the POST code 71 issues crept in on cold boots. I have to wait a couple days before I can definitively say all is well. 1. I saw the PCB flexing when loosening the EK backplate this time. So that tells me maybe I had it too tight (pre-mounting the cold block). There's a cantilever effect as the metal backplate sits on the EVGA metal socket backplate and the tabs overhang the mounting holes. There's a rubber gasket they send with it that cushions that a bit, but it doesn't prevent some bending there. The stock Optimus hardware is just posts into the PCB holes with nuts on the back and nothing prevents the board from flexing. The EK backplate can help with this, but it all depends on how you tighten it, and it still isn't perfect. The ILM puts pressure on the front of the PCB while the TG frame does not. Nothing touches the front of the PCB with the TG frame. The Thermalright ones sit on the PCB as well, and so does the Amify one I tried (though minimally), so that might explain why that was actually a little more stable for me. I think what happens is you get the backplates and frames all sort of snug but they don't really hold anything in place, then the Optimus block requires you to crank it down and that can bend the board. This is a guess, but I think it is possible that was part of this issue. I never saw memory not working (save for the "memory has changed" message on bios 1.14 lol), so I didn't get the same issues Der8aur and Gamer's Nexus saw, but I did see this. I'm wondering if I just hadn't quite had the CPU-backplate flush to the board as perfectly as it needs to be since I had originally been manipulating it with no cooler backplate. I tried several techniques to account for this along the way, but maybe they didn't work. Again, I need to wait for some cold boots to see if time is still a factor here. 2. CPU-z/HWiNFO64. I think this was unrelated to the subject of this post. I noticed it at the same time, and I think this was a bit exacerbated by BIOS 1.12 and 1.14 as those added some instability. I didn't try to run both simultaneously, but I don't really need to. I will probably give this a shot though because it always worked before and there's no reason it shouldn't at my settings. This is totally unrelated to the POST code 71 issue because one happens in POST and the other is after you're in Windows. But when you're skeptical of your stability and then you try to run some tests and the system freezes when you try to open CPU-z (which you've done a hundred times before), you go "holy crap this doesn't even work". 3. The USB drive is weird. No idea why but it's completely dead. I was suspicious of this after it happened so I had actually put 1.14 on a different drive and re-flashed it. I also tried putting it on a different BIOS switch position from the 2nd USB drive and it didn't seem to be a factor, but I don't know why the USB drive died after the first time I flashed the BIOS to 1.14. Maybe I can get EVGA to send me a new one. I liked having that little key just for BIOS and settings pictures, etc. 4. As for EVGA's boards and the stock ILM, while I have seen some odd paste patterns initially and that's what made me look at getting the TG frame, check out the one I just took a picture of last night:
The coverage is actually better than with the TG frame. Looking at the patterns, it looks like the pressure patterns are a bit different around the die area, but I would think both should perform really well. So I'm really hoping that I can fire things up for gaming this weekend (cold boot after a few days) and it all runs beautifully and I can just close the door on POST code 71.
good summary! wow that spread looks great too! maybe it was just the lack of a solid backplate you were missing? i guess silver lining? you can probably sell on all the contact frames, return the g6900 and cover the cost of the heavy backplate and hopefully forget all of this nonsense forever! fingers crossed your gaming sesh and remaining tests all pass as expected. keep us posted
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B0baganoosh
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Re: stuck on post code 71
2022/08/05 20:34:34
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Left it for a few days and I got a code 71 on boot. Cleaned the block. Tried to put it on a little looser (new guess maybe I've been tightening it too much? Idk at this point). It then booted right up after that. So I'll continue to test things...
6Q6CPFHPBPCU691 is a discount code anyone can use. i9 13900k - EVGA Z690 Classy - Nvidia RTX 4090 FE - G.Skill 32GB DDR5-6000 - WD SN850 2TB NVMe Gen4 - Be Quiet! Straight Power 12 1200W - Be Quiet! Dark Base 900 Pro. MO-RA3 420 Pro. Dark Palimpsest MODS RIGS post for build notes.
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frankd3
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Re: stuck on post code 71
2022/08/12 15:32:57
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Hey B0ba, I've been following your trials and tribulations here and I'm wondering if you ever got it sorted out. I'm just about ready to upgrade to the 12900k and the Classy is heavily discounted. I was planning on using the Thermal Grizzly contact frame but thanks to you I know to start without it. I have a serious problem with over-tightening everything. I ruined my first 11900k and had to get a new one. I'm an idiot But now I know to be extra careful. BTW, that last paste spread pattern is perfect!
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B0baganoosh
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Re: stuck on post code 71
2022/08/13 03:43:11
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frankd3 Hey B0ba, I've been following your trials and tribulations here and I'm wondering if you ever got it sorted out. I'm just about ready to upgrade to the 12900k and the Classy is heavily discounted. I was planning on using the Thermal Grizzly contact frame but thanks to you I know to start without it. I have a serious problem with over-tightening everything. I ruined my first 11900k and had to get a new one. I'm an idiot But now I know to be extra careful. BTW, that last paste spread pattern is perfect!
Hey, Frank. Thanks for the support! lol it's been emotionally taxing. Anyway, I had literally 2 minutes this morning so I hit the button and it fired right up. It has been a long two weeks dealing with other life stuff so I haven't even turned it on. Quite a cold boot and it fired right up. Maybe I'm in the clear at this point. I don't know that I'll ever fully trust it though.
6Q6CPFHPBPCU691 is a discount code anyone can use. i9 13900k - EVGA Z690 Classy - Nvidia RTX 4090 FE - G.Skill 32GB DDR5-6000 - WD SN850 2TB NVMe Gen4 - Be Quiet! Straight Power 12 1200W - Be Quiet! Dark Base 900 Pro. MO-RA3 420 Pro. Dark Palimpsest MODS RIGS post for build notes.
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slickwicked616
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Re: stuck on post code 71
2022/08/20 16:07:23
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i used the thermalright contact frame, installed it as per gamers nexus recs, at the end of the install the guy said pretty much he screwed it in till it hit a hard stop. so i did that, trying not to overtighten it. i had boot issues and random shut downs, id also have stalled boots, memroy wouldnt clock to prev stable oc. so i took it out everything returned to normal, except my 12900k had a solid line about a 1/4 inch in the middle of the cpu ihs across the short length. so seeing how bad the oem mount was. i reinstalled my contact frame, only tightened two finger tight on the smooth part of the screwdriver, and its been perfect with zero issues and my temps are around -10c of what they were with oem mount. i think gamers nexus said if the thermal grizzly was not applied perfect itd have the same issues i had with my thermalright
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