2020/09/28 04:39:16
GTXJackBauer

NVIDIA AIB Partners Clarify RTX 3080/3090 Crash to Desktop Issues, Capacitor Choices

 
Compounding the limited availability with the crash to desktop issues users have been experiencing with NVIDIA's recent RTX 3080/3090 graphics cards have led to rivers of digital ink being run on NVIDIA's latest RTX-30 series. After we've reported on NVIDIA's PG132 "Base Design" and manufacturer-specific capacitor choices and circuitry, we've now seen many of NVIDIA's AIB partners actually respond to this issue, clarifying their choices in this specific part of RTX 30-series board design, as well as the steps they've taken (if any) so as to help solve the issues (which are thus confirmed as being somewhat related to these capacitor choices, even if they are not the root cause.)

Some AIBs have spoken out regarding this issue, saying that their cards have no issues; others clarified that there were indeed verifiable problems in some of their early board designs due to absence of MLCC (Multilayer Ceramic Chip Capacitors), which are more capable of filtering high frequencies than POSCAPs are (although these do have some other characteristics that make them desirable for this task). NVIDIA, however, still haven't issued a statement on this issue, even though there are some reports of RTX 3080 FE cards crashing as well. Problems may arise in insufficient broadband frequency cleanup at high operating frequencies (2 GHz+) for GA-102 GPUs. These problems seem somewhat alleviated in designs featuring MLCC components on their design, though this doesn't mean they are automatically immune or that this is the root of the problem (word is running that this might be caused by overzealous Boost algorithms leading chips to error-prone operating frequencies, but there is no evidence on any of this as of yet). Partners' responses are shared after the break, organized by manufacturer.
COLORFUL
The manufacturer was the first to report on an issue to the press. Review samples that had already been sent out, were later recalled.

EVGA
Recently there has been some discussion about the EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 series.

During our mass production QC testing we discovered a full 6 POSCAPs solution cannot pass the real world applications testing. It took almost a week of R&D effort to find the cause and reduce the POSCAPs to 4 and add 20 MLCC caps prior to shipping production boards, this is why the EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 FTW3 series was delayed at launch. There were no 6 POSCAP production EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 FTW3 boards shipped.

But, due to the time crunch, some of the reviewers were sent a pre-production version with 6 POSCAP's, we are working with those reviewers directly to replace their boards with production versions.
EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 XC3 series with 5 POSCAPs + 10 MLCC solution is matched with the XC3 spec without issues.

Also note that we have updated the product pictures at EVGA.com to reflect the production components that shipped to gamers and enthusiasts since day 1 of product launch. Once you receive the card you can compare for yourself, EVGA stands behind its products!
— Jacob Freeman, EVGA Forums
ASUS
ASUS was one of the manufacturers to ship a fully MLCC capacitor design with their Strix Gaming OC graphics cards, and haven't issued a statement yet. The company supposedly detected problems in this area while internally testing the RTX 30-series, and chose to do away with any POSCAP in their highest-tier designs.
MSI
MSI acknowledged the issue during the MSI Insider Livestream, suggested it could be a driver issue. In our in-depth review, we found that MSI uses a single set of 10 MLCC capacitors and 5 POSCAPs in their design.
ZOTAC
ZOTAC is the only AIB we've reviewed a card from who employs a full 6x POSCAP sollution, absent of any MLCC capacitor array. The company on Twitter said that they are investigating the issue, and promise to keep in touch with all RTX 30-series buyers who experience any issues. 
GALAX
About the SP-CAP capacitors and MLCC capacitors of GALAXY RTX 3080/3090 products

Dear player friends:

Hello, everyone. Recently, many users have come to inquire about the specific usage of the capacitors on the back of the GALAXY RTX 3080/3090 series of graphics chips. After verification, about the RTX 3080/3090 released by GALAXY. The capacitors used on the back of the model chip are as follows:

1. GALAXY RTX 3080 Heijiang/Metal Master product, the number of SP-CAP capacitors on the back of the chip: 5, the number of MLCC capacitors: a set of 10. This version is currently on sale and is the original commercial version.

2. GALAXY RTX 3090 General/Metal Master product, the number of SP-CAP capacitors on the back of the chip: 4, the number of MLCC capacitors: two groups of 20. This version is currently on sale and is the original commercial version.

3. GALAX RTX 3090 GAMER trial production samples, currently only 6 pieces are in the hands of the media and KOL. The first batch of this sample uses 6 SP-CAP capacitors. After confirmation, the GAMER products officially produced and sold will be used for capacitor materials. Make optimization improvements. Note: This product is not currently on sale.

I am very grateful to the players and friends for their support and love to GALAXY. GALAXY is also consistent in its pursuit of product quality. It is our glorious mission to provide you with better and stronger hardware. In addition, the current full range of GALAXY graphics card products support three-year warranty and personal warranty service. If you have other doubts or questions, please feel free to leave us a message to discuss, thank you!

(automatic translation from Chinese)
GAINWARD
Announcement on SP-CAP Capacitors and MLCC Capacitors of Gainsun 30 Series Graphics Card Products

Dear Gainward consumer players:

Thanks to the friends who bought and supported Gainward. Recently, we received the voice of market players' inquiries. Many players are very concerned about our company's just released 30 series products. Regarding the specific usage of the capacitors on the back of the chip, we hereby explain the situation:

All the RTX 3080 10 GB graphics cards released by Gainward currently use 5 SP-CAP capacitors on the back of the chip and 10 MLCC capacitors. The versions currently on the market are all the original commercial versions.

All the RTX 3090 graphics cards released by Gainward currently use 4 SP-CAP capacitors on the back of the chip and 20 MLCC capacitors. The versions currently on the market are all the original commercial versions.

As a long-term AIC partner of Nvidia, Gainward has always been adhering to the product standard to design and produce completely according to Nvidia's requirements. Therefore, currently players are concerned about the problem of capacitors and new product failures on the Internet. Currently Gainward has not generated such feedback..

In addition, all Gainward graphics card products support three-year warranty and personal warranty service. Thank you consumers and players for your support and love to Gainward.

(automatic translation from Chinese)
INNO3D



 
Source
 
Hopefully this further clarifies and puts it all to rest so people can enjoy their new 3000 series GPUs.
2020/09/28 05:39:18
atfrico
Just like the previous RTX launch running with issues🙄
2020/09/28 06:10:24
themlharris
:/
2020/09/28 06:50:14
rjohnson11
I have a similar article already posted here but because this post contains more info I'll let it stand for now:
 
https://forums.evga.com/FindPost/3096155
2020/09/28 06:56:18
aka_STEVE_b
Anything less than the OEM spec of using 4 x 2  (spcap to mlcc )  should be suspect....IMHO

2020/09/28 06:56:50
rjohnson11
What I like about the info that Jacob posted for EVGA shows that the 6 poscap solution didn't pass the real world testing so EVGA resolved this right away. I think Gigabyte and Zotac used the 6 poscap solutions with no MLCC. You can see this on the JayzTwoCents video on youtube. 
 
2020/09/28 06:58:51
rjohnson11
aka_STEVE_b
Anything less than the OEM spec of using 4 x 2  (spcap to mlcc )  should be suspect....IMHO



As long as one set of MLCC is used it should be fine. So the EVGA XC3 should be fine
2020/09/28 12:52:37
GTXJackBauer
rjohnson11
I have a similar article already posted here but because this post contains more info I'll let it stand for now:
 
https://forums.evga.com/FindPost/3096155




RJ, I would respectfully argue that these are two different posts on the same matter.  This is a collaboration of statements from the companies, not a 'investigation' by Igors lab.
 
The sad part in all of this is, whomever out there seems to be trying to create a name for themselves for clickbait with their speculations during a big launch who happened to paint most with the issue ridden brush?  Were they payed by Asus since they were revered for not cutting corners in their power delivery? 
 
See I can speculate too.
 
How many CPU engineering samples were there while having some features disabled on them when being reviewed?  I say this because when did people freak out if engineering samples or preproduction components didn't go as planned before adjustments are made for final releases create this much ruckus?  Was this just an issue with ZOTAC? 

This has been completely blown out of proporstion for what it is.  I think this has run its course and all the folks who don't know better about silicon lottery will think they will have these issues now.  What a mess and feel bad for the AIBs, especially EVGA who already has enough on their plate during these launches while upholding it's stellar CS.
2020/09/28 13:58:50
atfrico
This is Nvidia fault, again. Third party vendors are saving Nvidia sells here. I would be livid if i was the CEO of any of these vendors. This issue jeopardizes their credibility
2020/09/29 06:00:42
ty_ger07
Real world trial and testing:



Great as always. Excellent conclusions, in my opinion.
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