rain2_usa

Vipilicious

rain2_usa

dante`afk
 honestly, I rather feel safer/better with 6x MLCC than mixed poscaps+mlcc ...

Are you an electrical engineer to understand the need for MLCC?  Serious question as I'd like to know why 6 MLCC would be preferred.  I have very little knowledge of electrical components and their interoperability among other components.  I just know that EVGA tested all their cards and works as intended with GPU Boost (they better as it's Advertised as a feature). 

I asked at IgorsLab regarding this topic:
 
Result/Anwser: "Caps are there on the one hand to filter the high frequency components and on the other hand as a buffer to prevent voltage drops. SP or POS CAPs are more shock-resistant and temperature-stable, but fail because of the high frequencies. The FE's 4 + 2 mix is perfect." (Source IgorsLab Forum)

Thanks for the info.  It'd be interesting to see how the Asus performs then.  Maybe Steve from GN will put it through the paces to find out.  

I opened the box of the pandora @ IgorsLab .... (now its getting technical)
 
"The statement "POSCAPS are great at thermal stability, MLCCs are not. there is also a voltage issue as frequency increases. It appears the 4+20 is the best option, even the nvidia design uses that setup." is definitely not entirely correct.
 
In the case of MLCC, this strongly depends on the dielectric used:
- Class1: C0G (and meanwhile U2J) is very temperature stable (almost linear) but has a low capacity
- Class2: X7R, X5R is much more dependent on temperature than Class1, but has a greater capacity with the same size or voltage
- Class3: e.g. Y5V is much more temperature-dependent and has even more capacity for the same size or voltage.
Most MLCC also have a high dielectric strength (compared to the nominal voltage), even if this naturally has an influence on the capacitance. In addition, the polarity cannot be reversed. Usually, the ESR is also quite low (rule of thumb for ESR: the less the good. Especially at higher frequencies).
Edit2: On top of that, MLCCs from Class2 or higher at the latest have piezoelectric properties that make them unpopular in the audio sector.
 
To the best of my knowledge, POS CAPs have a high degree of constancy over the temperature range on the capacitive side. For this, a corresponding derating must be planned for the voltage and attention must be paid to the polarity. In addition, no polymer tantalum has been encountered with the ESR of which it could be compared with the better MLCC. But you get a lot of capacity in a small space."
 
Result: We have to wait for tests if a 6 MLCC is better then a 2 MLCC + 4 POS Caps. Due to the fact that until now no issues are known from Nvidias FE's (using 2 + 4). This seems to be enough. If there is an advantage in more than 2 MLCC ... we will see. 

The EVGA RTX 3080 FTW3 ULTRA Gaming stock photos still show the 6 POSCAPs instead of 4 + 2.

rain2_usa

jayrwar

Vipilicious

I asked at IgorsLab regarding this topic:

Result/Anwser: "Caps are there on the one hand to filter the high frequency components and on the other hand as a buffer to prevent voltage drops. SP or POS CAPs are more shock-resistant and temperature-stable, but fail because of the high frequencies. The FE's 4 + 2 mix is perfect." (Source IgorsLab Forum)

Link, please?

See if that semi-link works.  Direct from Igor himself. 
www.igorslab.de/community/threads/was-wirklich-hinter-den-abstürzen-und-instabilitäten-der-geforce-rtx-3080-und-rtx-3090-stecken-könnte-investigativ.3217/page-7#post-75137

Until someone reviews an FTW3 Ultra 3080 and I see the clocks, temps, and fan speeds won't commit to it.

Kevkas
The EVGA RTX 3080 FTW3 ULTRA Gaming stock photos still show the 6 POSCAPs instead of 4 + 2.

Have a link?  I looked at the product page and it's changed.  If you've looked at it before, maybe you need to clear your cache. That's what Jacob was recommending if you're still seeing the stock photo. 

Well, I knew it wasn't a driver issue. Sure didn't sound like it.

Imo it’s not needed mlcc have lower life time, since they are more prone to temperatures. Also multi Asus rog cards suffered from the crashing aswell

Will the King Pin be the same setup as the FTW3 or will you be using all MLCC's like Asus?

Sanctuary
Is this going to actually be a significant enough of a change however?  There have been numerous reports of other brands using the 4+20 layout that are having similar crashing problems, and even the supposed FE cards that "were not crashing" have been reported to be crashing as well.  So far, there's only one known card in the wild that doesn't use any of the cheaper POSCAPs, but instead opted for 60 MLCCs instead.
 
In the event that this doesn't actually solve the problem, there's either a) going to need to be a bios update that addresses the problem, which likely means it will just be undervolting the card, which also means any "overclocked" card premium you pay for is just throwing money away or b) a second hardware refresh where they use better components.
 

Asus rog cards with 6 mlcc’s also have suffered from the crashing

Vipilicious
 
I opened the box of the pandora @ IgorsLab .... (now its getting technical)
 
"The statement "POSCAPS are great at thermal stability, MLCCs are not. there is also a voltage issue as frequency increases. It appears the 4+20 is the best option, even the nvidia design uses that setup." is definitely not entirely correct.
 
In the case of MLCC, this strongly depends on the dielectric used:
- Class1: C0G (and meanwhile U2J) is very temperature stable (almost linear) but has a low capacity
- Class2: X7R, X5R is much more dependent on temperature than Class1, but has a greater capacity with the same size or voltage
- Class3: e.g. Y5V is much more temperature-dependent and has even more capacity for the same size or voltage.
Most MLCC also have a high dielectric strength (compared to the nominal voltage), even if this naturally has an influence on the capacitance. In addition, the polarity cannot be reversed. Usually, the ESR is also quite low (rule of thumb for ESR: the less the good. Especially at higher frequencies).
Edit2: On top of that, MLCCs from Class2 or higher at the latest have piezoelectric properties that make them unpopular in the audio sector.
 
To the best of my knowledge, POS CAPs have a high degree of constancy over the temperature range on the capacitive side. For this, a corresponding derating must be planned for the voltage and attention must be paid to the polarity. In addition, no polymer tantalum has been encountered with the ESR of which it could be compared with the better MLCC. But you get a lot of capacity in a small space."
 
Result: We have to wait for tests if a 6 MLCC is better then a 2 MLCC + 4 POS Caps. Due to the fact that until now no issues are known from Nvidias FE's (using 2 + 4). This seems to be enough. If there is an advantage in more than 2 MLCC ... we will see. 

lol.  So we're back to waiting for GN to do the tests as I believe he has the equipment to properly test this.  Maybe others have the equipment as well, but I don't know them offhand. 

Kevkas
The EVGA RTX 3080 FTW3 ULTRA Gaming stock photos still show the 6 POSCAPs instead of 4 + 2.

and looking good.