2020/09/25 11:05:05
jpotter
There are already three other posts about this, but I agree it is a concern. It looks like most cards are going out with at least two MLCC, so it should be fine.
2020/09/25 11:05:33
Viper97
vgerik1234
It just arrived 30 minutes ago. This was from yesterdays Elite launch. 3090 FTW. 4 P - 2 M
 
 


Yesterdays launch? How did you get it so fast?
2020/09/25 11:07:51
Nostyke
from reddit :
 

So, as an Electronics Engineer and PCB Designer I feel I have to react here.
The point that Igor makes about improper power design causing instability is a very plausible one. Especially with first production runs where it indeed could be the case that they did not have the time/equipment/driver etc to do proper design verification.
However, concluding from this that a POSCAP = bad and MLCC = good is waaay to harsh and a conclusion you cannot make.
Both POSCAPS (or any other 'solid polymer caps' and MLCC's have there own characteristics and use cases.
Some (not all) are ('+' = pos, '-' = neg):
MLCC:
+ cheap
+ small
+ high voltage rating in small package
+ high current rating
+ high temperature rating
+ high capacitance in small package
+ good at high frequencies
- prone to cracking
- prone to piezo effect
- bad temperature characteristics
- DC bias (capacitance changes a lot under different voltages)
POSCAP:
- cheap more expensive
- bigger
- lower voltage rating
+ high current rating
+ high temperature rating
- less good at high frequencies
+ mechanically very strong (no MLCC cracking)
+ not prone to piezo effect
+ very stable over temperature
+ no DC bias (capacitance very stable at different voltages)
As you can see, both have there strengths and weaknesses and one is not particularly better or worse then the other. It all depends.
In this case, most of these 3080 and 3090 boards may use the same GPU (with its requirements) but they also have very different power circuits driving the chips on the cards.
Each power solution has its own characteristics and behavior and thus its own requirements in terms of capacitors used.
Thus, you cannot simply say: I want the card with only MLCC's because that is a good design.
It is far more likely they just could/would not have enough time and/or resources to properly verify their designs and thus where not able to do proper adjustments to their initial component choices.
This will very likely work itself out in time. For now, just buy the card that you like and if it fails, simply claim warranty. Let them fix the problem and down draw to many conclusions based on incomplete information and (educated) guess work.
2020/09/25 11:17:14
Monolyth
This is still just a single theory regarding the stability issues. Igor only presents the argument that POSCAPS are "cheaper" parts and that there are differences in the implementations between NVIDIA & AIBs. Just because a part is cheaper does not immediately mean it is inferior. Without a controlled test environment and proper tools we are relying upon the old and often incorrect assumption that correlation equals causation.
 
I'm not saying there couldn't be a hardware problem, I'm just saying don't make any purchasing decisions based upon a theory that specific cards have issues. The most reliable advice at this point is that prospective buyers avoid purchasing a 3000 series card until the stability issue is addressed.
2020/09/25 11:17:33
vgerik1234
Viper97
vgerik1234
It just arrived 30 minutes ago. This was from yesterdays Elite launch. 3090 FTW. 4 P - 2 M
 
 


Yesterdays launch? How did you get it so fast?


Next day air, they shipped it out last night @~6PM. With the associate's code it was basically free next-day shipping.
2020/09/25 11:21:32
kevinc313
YURIIII
I just found out that FTW3 models are using POSCAP-capacitors instead of MLCC, can someone confirm this?
 
The more deep we are going with this launch, I'm getting stronger feeling that I should pull my order off.
 
 
 




You sound ridiculous calling them by their formal names.  They are Ceramic and Tantalum caps.  Or "ceramic chip caps" or "tantalum surface mount caps" etc.  
 
Sweet baby Jesus.
2020/09/25 11:26:37
YURIIII
kevinc313
YURIIII
I just found out that FTW3 models are using POSCAP-capacitors instead of MLCC, can someone confirm this?
 
The more deep we are going with this launch, I'm getting stronger feeling that I should pull my order off.
 
 
 




You sound ridiculous calling them by their formal names.  They are Ceramic and Tantalum caps.  




Thanks, English is not my first language.
 
All I know that people are already downclocking their 6-piece of ****-cap Trinitys and 5+1 Trios.
2020/09/25 11:27:16
kevinc313
Monolyth
This is still just a single theory regarding the stability issues. Igor only presents the argument that POSCAPS are "cheaper" parts and that there are differences in the implementations between NVIDIA & AIBs. Just because a part is cheaper does not immediately mean it is inferior. Without a controlled test environment and proper tools we are relying upon the old and often incorrect assumption that correlation equals causation.
 
I'm not saying there couldn't be a hardware problem, I'm just saying don't make any purchasing decisions based upon a theory that specific cards have issues. The most reliable advice at this point is that prospective buyers avoid purchasing a 3000 series card until the stability issue is addressed.




There is virtually no cost difference between 10 ceramics and one larger Tantalum cap, and we're talking well under a buck in Asia.
 
But any sane mfg would rather put on one big part vs. 10 small ones, if they can.
2020/09/25 11:28:19
kevinc313
YURIIII
kevinc313
YURIIII
I just found out that FTW3 models are using POSCAP-capacitors instead of MLCC, can someone confirm this?
 
The more deep we are going with this launch, I'm getting stronger feeling that I should pull my order off.
 
 
 




You sound ridiculous calling them by their formal names.  They are Ceramic and Tantalum caps.  




Thanks, English is not my first language.




I blame the article and the public's ignorance of electronics.
2020/09/25 11:28:27
HawkOculus
vgerik1234
Viper97
vgerik1234
It just arrived 30 minutes ago. This was from yesterdays Elite launch. 3090 FTW. 4 P - 2 M


Yesterdays launch? How did you get it so fast?


Next day air, they shipped it out last night @~6PM. With the associate's code it was basically free next-day shipping.


You were able to enter an associates code during yesterday’s debacle, and yet I wasn’t even able to get my address submission to go through on EVGA’s dumpster tier website.

What a load of garbage.

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