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AnsweredHot!i9-9900KS, Z390 Dark and High Voltages

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d.burnette
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Re: i9-9900KS, Z390 Dark and High Voltages 2019/11/04 16:26:26 (permalink)
bp7178
kelkel1
 Sort of on topic, I tried running AIDA64 Stability Test with only FPU checked.
VCore at 1.250, Adaptive, VDroop -50%, XMP1, C-States off, HT enabled, AVX0.
Bios 1.07 resulted in several BSOD; 0x3B, 0x3D, 0x0A all of which are related to low VCore.

However, using BIOS 1.03 with identical settings, FPU ran without BSOD, although temps were in the low 90°C.


Don’t set a voltage with the most recent bios. Leave it on auto adaptive and use the LLC to control it. Start with default and test. It will likely be too high. Keep adding more droop until your voltages and temps are in check.

 What is this LLC you are referring to using in the Dark?

Don 
 
 
EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.2 GHz all cores | EVGA RTX 2080 Ti FTW3 Ultra | 32 GB G Skill Trident Z 3200 MHz CL14 DDR4 Ram | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler | EVGA T2 Titanium 1000w Power Supply | Samsung 970 Pro 1TB m.2 Nvme | Samsung 970 Evo 1TB m.2 Nvme | Samsung 860 Evo 1TB SATA SSD | EVGA DG 87 Case |
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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bob16314
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Re: i9-9900KS, Z390 Dark and High Voltages 2019/11/04 16:30:48 (permalink)
d.burnette
What is this LLC you are referring to using in the Dark?



Load-Line Calibration, aka VDroop.

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#32
d.burnette
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Re: i9-9900KS, Z390 Dark and High Voltages 2019/11/04 16:39:52 (permalink)
bob16314
d.burnette
What is this LLC you are referring to using in the Dark?



Load-Line Calibration, aka VDroop.


Ah ok VDroop, thanks.

Don 
 
 
EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.2 GHz all cores | EVGA RTX 2080 Ti FTW3 Ultra | 32 GB G Skill Trident Z 3200 MHz CL14 DDR4 Ram | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler | EVGA T2 Titanium 1000w Power Supply | Samsung 970 Pro 1TB m.2 Nvme | Samsung 970 Evo 1TB m.2 Nvme | Samsung 860 Evo 1TB SATA SSD | EVGA DG 87 Case |
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
#33
bp7178
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Re: i9-9900KS, Z390 Dark and High Voltages 2019/11/04 20:31:12 (permalink)
So with my i9-9900KS, I can run it stable at 5.1ghz with no AVX offset at auto voltage with the LLC set to "+75 High Droop". This is no bullsh*t small fft stable. To get to 5.2ghz no AVX requires a lot more voltage. I had to set LLC to "+50% Large Droop" with a +15mv offset. Multimeter vcore was just under 1.4v in the high 1.385ish range while HWInfo reported vcore was a tick over 1.4v. IMO, to make 5.2ghz with a 0 AVX offset feasible you need to delid and go direct die as the temps creeped over 85c on some of the cores. 
 
For 24/7 stable operation I'm likely going 5.1ghz with the lower voltages. This is 100mhz faster than I could get my 8086k, for AVX workloads, to go with the addition of 2 more cores. 
 
I think there's a definite issue with the default BIOS settings for this board though. This was easily demonstrated when I swapped it for an Asus board. Prime 95 small FFT with AVX is synthetic to be for sure and likely beyond anything you'll actually use. But, there's no reason that with default BIOS settings you should hit thermal limits and IMO, unsafe voltages. 1.477 under load is pretty extreme, 95c core temp sure as heck is. 
post edited by bp7178 - 2019/11/04 20:50:05
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Re: i9-9900KS, Z390 Dark and High Voltages 2019/11/05 06:47:49 (permalink)
Kylearan
 
 The Z390 Dark is a board meant to get overclocking world records.  And with the best transient response (someone needs to donate an Apex XI to buildzoid so he can test that vs the Dark), it will do just that.  But the Dark is sorely missing some features other boards already have:
 
Current (Amps) monitoring (does the VRM controller on the dark support this?)
On-die sense voltage monitoring (this is the exact CPU voltage that the CPU is getting, unaffected by power plane impedance. All maximus XI boards use a diode to wire the Super I/O chip to read from the CPU die sense.  Boards with the IR 35201 and Intersil VRM controllers that have VR VOUT access will show this as VR VOUT.
 
AC and DC Loadline settings. <--this is an issue.
 
The lack of access to AC/DC Loadline is a pretty huge thing.  It's unknown just what the Dark is using for AC Loadline. (AC Loadline is only used on "Auto", "offset" or "adaptive" voltage modes, but a high AC Loadline must NOT be combined with a high vdroop reduction !! AC loadline is ignored on fixed vcore modes)
 
Can you go into HWinfo64 and go to the "CPU" information section, scroll a few pages down, and look for the AC Loadline value? 




I don't think there is any current monitoring for the CPU in HWInfo other than "CPU Package Power" and "IA Cores Power" both in watts. I do have some of the values disabled though, I can check again when I get home. 
 
I don't doubt that the Dark is designed with extreme overclocking in mind. I just think they went full ham with the bios default LLC setting which caused the issue I experienced. IMO, it would be better if bios default settings were more exposed, so you knew what they actually were. On the Asus board I tested the bios default LLC setting was 2, or second from the most vdroop on Asus' 10 levels of LLC. 
#35
kelkel1
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Re: i9-9900KS, Z390 Dark and High Voltages 2019/11/05 13:38:05 (permalink)
I checked HWiNFO64 v6.12-3930, and I see nothing labeled AC Loadline.
 
Possibly it is named something else?
 

Z390 DARK, 9900K, 2080 FTW3 ULTRA, GSKILL 4500, 960EVO M.2
https://valid.x86.fr/52sqs5
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Kylearan
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Re: i9-9900KS, Z390 Dark and High Voltages 2019/11/05 19:18:35 (permalink)
kelkel1
I checked HWiNFO64 v6.12-3930, and I see nothing labeled AC Loadline.
 
Possibly it is named something else?
 


 
It's not right here?

 https://i.imgur.com/lLb7Res.jpg

Attached Image(s)

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bp7178
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Re: i9-9900KS, Z390 Dark and High Voltages 2019/11/06 07:27:18 (permalink)
I never remember seeing that with the sensors. Interesting. 
 
Does it show up with all the sensors or just in the summary? 
#38
Kylearan
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Re: i9-9900KS, Z390 Dark and High Voltages 2019/11/06 09:26:31 (permalink)
bp7178
I never remember seeing that with the sensors. Interesting. 
 
Does it show up with all the sensors or just in the summary? 


 Summary only.  
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kevinc313
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Re: i9-9900KS, Z390 Dark and High Voltages 2019/11/06 12:11:39 (permalink)
My 9900K hits 200 watts with prime 95 AVX with stock clocks, stock volts - seeing that KS clear 300 watts in the EVGA board is CRAZY.
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kelkel1
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Re: i9-9900KS, Z390 Dark and High Voltages 2019/11/06 14:45:36 (permalink)
Kylearan
kelkel1
I checked HWiNFO64 v6.12-3930, and I see nothing labeled AC Loadline.
 
Possibly it is named something else?
 


 
It's not right here?

 https://i.imgur.com/lLb7Res.jpg




How do I get that to display? All I have is this:
 
 
post edited by kelkel1 - 2019/11/06 14:50:46

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Z390 DARK, 9900K, 2080 FTW3 ULTRA, GSKILL 4500, 960EVO M.2
https://valid.x86.fr/52sqs5
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Kylearan
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Re: i9-9900KS, Z390 Dark and High Voltages 2019/11/06 19:39:09 (permalink)
kelkel1
Kylearan
kelkel1
I checked HWiNFO64 v6.12-3930, and I see nothing labeled AC Loadline.
 
Possibly it is named something else?
 


 
It's not right here?

 https://i.imgur.com/lLb7Res.jpg




How do I get that to display? All I have is this:
 
 




Try unchecking "Show summary" and "show sensors"?
it should bring up the main window then at the top left.
If you have show summary checked, it won't show it.
#42
bob16314
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Re: i9-9900KS, Z390 Dark and High Voltages 2019/11/06 21:15:20 (permalink)
IA AC and DC Load Lines have to do with Internal CPU Power Management while CPU Load-Line has to do with External CPU Power Management.
 
Setting these values (IA AC/DC Load Line) keeps the Adaptive Mode voltage closer to the user-applied value when the processor is under full load, otherwise it makes my Vcore (and consequently cores temps) skyrocket big time under load.
 
GT Load-Line is for the iGPU.

The CPU Load-Line level is not shown in HWiNFO for me, although the resulting voltages and temperatures for different levels are.
 
See: The (Asus) Kaby Lake Overclocking Guide near the bottom of the page.

* Corsair Obsidian 450D Mid-Tower - Airflow Edition * ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC) * Intel i7-8700K (Delidded, TG Conductonaut) @ 5.2GHz* 16GB G.SKILL Trident Z 4133MHz * Crucial MX500 M.2 1TB * WD Black 500GB (x2) * Seasonic M12 II 750W * Corsair H115i Pro * EVGA GTX 760 SC * Dual-Boot Win7 Home 64-bit/Win10 Home 64-bit (Winver 1909) * 
 
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#43
bp7178
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Re: i9-9900KS, Z390 Dark and High Voltages 2019/11/07 07:09:20 (permalink)
bob16314
IA AC and DC Load Lines have to do with Internal CPU Power Management while CPU Load-Line has to do with External CPU Power Management.

Setting these values (IA AC/DC Load Line) keeps the Adaptive Mode voltage closer to the user-applied value when the processor is under full load, otherwise it makes my Vcore (and consequently cores temps) skyrocket big time under load.
 
GT Load-Line is for the iGPU.

The CPU Load-Line level is not shown in HWiNFO for me, although the resulting voltages and temperatures for different levels are.

See: The (Asus) Kaby Lake Overclocking Guide near the bottom of the page.




What motherboard are you using? 
 
I don't know with the Z390 Dark that a user can change the IA AC/DC Load Line setting which shows up as 0.800 mOhm in HWInfo for me. Maybe its an option in the XOC BIOS. I'll have to explore some when I get home. 
 
I do appreciate the clarification though. I was confused as to why this 0.800 mOhm setting didn't move when I adjust the LLC in the BIOS. 
 
 
 
 
 
post edited by bp7178 - 2019/11/07 07:11:25
#44
bob16314
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Re: i9-9900KS, Z390 Dark and High Voltages 2019/11/07 07:41:43 (permalink)
bp7178
bob16314
IA AC and DC Load Lines have to do with Internal CPU Power Management while CPU Load-Line has to do with External CPU Power Management.

Setting these values (IA AC/DC Load Line) keeps the Adaptive Mode voltage closer to the user-applied value when the processor is under full load, otherwise it makes my Vcore (and consequently cores temps) skyrocket big time under load.
 
GT Load-Line is for the iGPU.

The CPU Load-Line level is not shown in HWiNFO for me, although the resulting voltages and temperatures for different levels are.

See: The (Asus) Kaby Lake Overclocking Guide near the bottom of the page.




What motherboard are you using? 
 
I don't know with the Z390 Dark that a user can change the IA AC/DC Load Line setting which shows up as 0.800 mOhm in HWInfo for me. Maybe its an option in the XOC BIOS. I'll have to explore some when I get home. 
 
I do appreciate the clarification though. I was confused as to why this 0.800 mOhm setting didn't move when I adjust the LLC in the BIOS. 

 
My mobo in my sig.
 
I was kinda sorta just giving an explanation, although from Asus/ROG..IA AC and DC Load Line settings are in my particular BIOS -> Internal CPU Power Management section and CPU LLC is in the External, both adjustable.

* Corsair Obsidian 450D Mid-Tower - Airflow Edition * ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC) * Intel i7-8700K (Delidded, TG Conductonaut) @ 5.2GHz* 16GB G.SKILL Trident Z 4133MHz * Crucial MX500 M.2 1TB * WD Black 500GB (x2) * Seasonic M12 II 750W * Corsair H115i Pro * EVGA GTX 760 SC * Dual-Boot Win7 Home 64-bit/Win10 Home 64-bit (Winver 1909) * 
 
"Whatever it takes, as long as it works" - Me
 
 
 
#45
bp7178
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Re: i9-9900KS, Z390 Dark and High Voltages 2019/11/07 08:30:51 (permalink)
Kind of a back handed answer. You don't have a sig line on my screen, but Asus. Got it. 
post edited by bp7178 - 2019/11/07 12:40:22
#46
bob16314
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Re: i9-9900KS, Z390 Dark and High Voltages 2019/11/07 09:16:24 (permalink)
bp7178
You don't have a sig line on my screen, but Asus. Got it. 



Happy now? 

* Corsair Obsidian 450D Mid-Tower - Airflow Edition * ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC) * Intel i7-8700K (Delidded, TG Conductonaut) @ 5.2GHz* 16GB G.SKILL Trident Z 4133MHz * Crucial MX500 M.2 1TB * WD Black 500GB (x2) * Seasonic M12 II 750W * Corsair H115i Pro * EVGA GTX 760 SC * Dual-Boot Win7 Home 64-bit/Win10 Home 64-bit (Winver 1909) * 
 
"Whatever it takes, as long as it works" - Me
 
 
 
#47
bp7178
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Re: i9-9900KS, Z390 Dark and High Voltages 2019/11/07 10:39:27 (permalink)

 
 Get it now? 
 
 
#48
bob16314
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Re: i9-9900KS, Z390 Dark and High Voltages 2019/11/07 10:44:49 (permalink)
bp7178

 
Get it now? 

 
Still not happy, huh?..Want it bigger?..Different colors? 
 

* Corsair Obsidian 450D Mid-Tower - Airflow Edition * ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC) * Intel i7-8700K (Delidded, TG Conductonaut) @ 5.2GHz* 16GB G.SKILL Trident Z 4133MHz * Crucial MX500 M.2 1TB * WD Black 500GB (x2) * Seasonic M12 II 750W * Corsair H115i Pro * EVGA GTX 760 SC * Dual-Boot Win7 Home 64-bit/Win10 Home 64-bit (Winver 1909) * 
 
"Whatever it takes, as long as it works" - Me
 
 
 
#49
bp7178
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Re: i9-9900KS, Z390 Dark and High Voltages 2019/11/07 11:18:35 (permalink)
I think you missed the point...again. I can't see your signature, because my options are set to not show signatures. 
#50
bob16314
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Re: i9-9900KS, Z390 Dark and High Voltages 2019/11/07 11:39:15 (permalink)
bp7178
I think you missed the point...again. I can't see your signature, because my options are set to not show signatures. 


You need to know what people have in their signatures because it's important..Saves you from asking the necessary questions about their hardware and OS when trying to help with an issue, and everybody should have one so people don't waste their time having to ask simple things..Up to you though.

* Corsair Obsidian 450D Mid-Tower - Airflow Edition * ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC) * Intel i7-8700K (Delidded, TG Conductonaut) @ 5.2GHz* 16GB G.SKILL Trident Z 4133MHz * Crucial MX500 M.2 1TB * WD Black 500GB (x2) * Seasonic M12 II 750W * Corsair H115i Pro * EVGA GTX 760 SC * Dual-Boot Win7 Home 64-bit/Win10 Home 64-bit (Winver 1909) * 
 
"Whatever it takes, as long as it works" - Me
 
 
 
#51
bp7178
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Re: i9-9900KS, Z390 Dark and High Voltages 2019/11/07 12:42:02 (permalink)
I'm good. Let's get back on topic...
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kelkel1
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Re: i9-9900KS, Z390 Dark and High Voltages 2019/11/07 13:31:16 (permalink)
Kylearan
kelkel1
Kylearan
kelkel1
I checked HWiNFO64 v6.12-3930, and I see nothing labeled AC Loadline.
 
Possibly it is named something else?
 


 
It's not right here?

 https://i.imgur.com/lLb7Res.jpg




How do I get that to display? All I have is this:
 
 




Try unchecking "Show summary" and "show sensors"?
it should bring up the main window then at the top left.
If you have show summary checked, it won't show it.




Thanks! Using HWiNFO for several years and I never knew that.
Anyway:
 
 
 
 
 
post edited by kelkel1 - 2019/11/07 13:35:31

Attached Image(s)


Z390 DARK, 9900K, 2080 FTW3 ULTRA, GSKILL 4500, 960EVO M.2
https://valid.x86.fr/52sqs5
#53
Kylearan
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Re: i9-9900KS, Z390 Dark and High Voltages 2019/11/07 17:29:06 (permalink)
That's a VERY Awkward value to set for AC Loadline!
That's lower than what Gigabyte uses for their auto setting at 4.7 ghz (they use 1.0 mOhms).
Max spec is 1.6 mOhms.
 
A high mOhms value for ACLL (internal CPU power management--this controls operating voltages to the VRM) should never be combined with an aggressive (minimum vdroop--or LOW mOhms value!) for VRM Loadline! (reducing loadline calibration reduces the mOhms value for vdroop---Intel spec is 1.6 mOhms (the "+90% vdroop setting I believe, on your boards), -50% reduced vdroop is equal to 0.8 mOhms of VRM Loadline (= Level 5 on Asus, "High" LLC on Gigabyte, etc).
 
AC Loadline is ignored when using fixed voltages.
 
However, if the Dark is really setting -75% reduced vdroop with a 0.8 mOhms ACLL, that's still too high for auto vcore.
-75% reduced vdroop works ok with a 0.4 mOhms LLC MAXIMUM (and ACLL should probably be set down to the minimum of 0.1 mOhms), while a 1.6 mOhms ACLL works best with Intel spec vdroop (+90% increased vdroop).
#54
kelkel1
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Re: i9-9900KS, Z390 Dark and High Voltages 2019/11/08 13:57:45 (permalink)
Trying different voltages, vdroop settings the llc never changes.
 
Does that mean it is locked at .800mOhm? If so, does that have any effect on OC? Could it contribute to the low GFlops I see in Linpack?
 
 

Z390 DARK, 9900K, 2080 FTW3 ULTRA, GSKILL 4500, 960EVO M.2
https://valid.x86.fr/52sqs5
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bp7178
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Re: i9-9900KS, Z390 Dark and High Voltages 2019/11/08 18:01:30 (permalink)
Changing the LLC does not have an impact on that 0.800mOhm number. 
#56
kelkel1
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Re: i9-9900KS, Z390 Dark and High Voltages 2019/11/09 03:41:03 (permalink)
bp7178
Changing the LLC does not have an impact on that 0.800mOhm number. 




I noticed that.
 
Not sure if it should, but do the Asus and Gigabyte boards change?

Z390 DARK, 9900K, 2080 FTW3 ULTRA, GSKILL 4500, 960EVO M.2
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Re: i9-9900KS, Z390 Dark and High Voltages 2019/11/30 11:06:55 (permalink)
GTXJackBauer
telehog
Put a I 9 9900 KS in Msi Ace Z390 yesterday. Running a 360 Aio ,push,pull on fans and it runs very cool with 100 percent load. 5.0 ghz 1.286 to 1.271 volts for hour . Temp. was under 55 c most of time on all cores, did see one core get  to 57 c and drop back down. Using Kingpins thermal paste. Looking forward to pushing this cpu at 5.2 Ghz 100 percent load about 65c at 1.310 volts. I did update Bios for new cpu. I bet with custom water loop 5.4 Ghz could ???




Those are great temps and you could be on a good OCing chip as well.  The 320mm AIOs are close to custom.  Really no point in spending the extra dough since it will cost much higher but all up to the user if they want to head down that route.  Yes, you might be able to get that high but it's hard to say.  I think going 5.2+ in general usually enters you in exotic cooling (LN2, etc.)


GTXJackBauer
telehog
Put a I 9 9900 KS in Msi Ace Z390 yesterday. Running a 360 Aio ,push,pull on fans and it runs very cool with 100 percent load. 5.0 ghz 1.286 to 1.271 volts for hour . Temp. was under 55 c most of time on all cores, did see one core get  to 57 c and drop back down. Using Kingpins thermal paste. Looking forward to pushing this cpu at 5.2 Ghz 100 percent load about 65c at 1.310 volts. I did update Bios for new cpu. I bet with custom water loop 5.4 Ghz could ???




Those are great temps and you could be on a good OCing chip as well.  The 320mm AIOs are close to custom.  Really no point in spending the extra dough since it will cost much higher but all up to the user if they want to head down that route.  Yes, you might be able to get that high but it's hard to say.  I think going 5.2+ in general usually enters you in exotic cooling (LN2, etc.)


Put a custom loop on i 9 9900 ks and gpu and runs at 5.4 without breaking a sweat and 5.5 and above, http://www.3dmark.com/pr/177913 http://www.3dmark.com/cg/4632298



vga.com/associates/default.aspx?associatecode=VOZA4W51GZJQX2N][/url]
#58
kelkel1
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Re: i9-9900KS, Z390 Dark and High Voltages 2019/11/30 13:47:10 (permalink)
telehog
GTXJackBauer
telehog
Put a I 9 9900 KS in Msi Ace Z390 yesterday. Running a 360 Aio ,push,pull on fans and it runs very cool with 100 percent load. 5.0 ghz 1.286 to 1.271 volts for hour . Temp. was under 55 c most of time on all cores, did see one core get  to 57 c and drop back down. Using Kingpins thermal paste. Looking forward to pushing this cpu at 5.2 Ghz 100 percent load about 65c at 1.310 volts. I did update Bios for new cpu. I bet with custom water loop 5.4 Ghz could ???




Those are great temps and you could be on a good OCing chip as well.  The 320mm AIOs are close to custom.  Really no point in spending the extra dough since it will cost much higher but all up to the user if they want to head down that route.  Yes, you might be able to get that high but it's hard to say.  I think going 5.2+ in general usually enters you in exotic cooling (LN2, etc.)


GTXJackBauer
telehog
Put a I 9 9900 KS in Msi Ace Z390 yesterday. Running a 360 Aio ,push,pull on fans and it runs very cool with 100 percent load. 5.0 ghz 1.286 to 1.271 volts for hour . Temp. was under 55 c most of time on all cores, did see one core get  to 57 c and drop back down. Using Kingpins thermal paste. Looking forward to pushing this cpu at 5.2 Ghz 100 percent load about 65c at 1.310 volts. I did update Bios for new cpu. I bet with custom water loop 5.4 Ghz could ???




Those are great temps and you could be on a good OCing chip as well.  The 320mm AIOs are close to custom.  Really no point in spending the extra dough since it will cost much higher but all up to the user if they want to head down that route.  Yes, you might be able to get that high but it's hard to say.  I think going 5.2+ in general usually enters you in exotic cooling (LN2, etc.)


Put a custom loop on i 9 9900 ks and gpu and runs at 5.4 without breaking a sweat and 5.5 and above, http://www.3dmark.com/pr/177913 http://www.3dmark.com/cg/4632298






Nice scores, but where are your voltages and temperatures while benchmarking?

Z390 DARK, 9900K, 2080 FTW3 ULTRA, GSKILL 4500, 960EVO M.2
https://valid.x86.fr/52sqs5
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telehog
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Re: i9-9900KS, Z390 Dark and High Voltages 2019/11/30 16:00:50 (permalink)
cpu-z stress test  at 5.0 ghz  , 1.238 volts, temp, 48c to 58c ambient 72f, 5.3 ghz ,1.373 volts, temp 62c to 72 c ambient 72f,  Heaven stress test 5.4 ghz, 1.411 volts 22 c to 53 c, ambient 40 f with garage door open.5.4 and above Garage door is open!

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