TheDoctorCMG
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Re: Will LHR cards have a lower MSRP? RTX 3080 Ti LHR = $500?
2021/05/25 12:54:34
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kevinc313
ohnoplsno Your lack of logic over multiple threads is... alarming. Why would a 3080Ti have the same price as a 3070? Would that mean you sell 3070Ti at 350? Since all cards are getting LHR versions, all of them are effected the same way, making non-LHR cards just be more expensive, not the other way around.
Glad to hear we've got an expert here. LHR = DIFFERENT PART NUMBER. ENDS IN -LR Should sell for much less as it's disposable.
A GPU that can't mine efficiently is not disposable. It will end up exactly where they used to end up, on the 2nd hand market for REASONABLE prices instead of the hyper inflated crap we have now. A user might actually be able to hob together a budget PC with used parts once again.
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ohnoplsno
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Re: Will LHR cards have a lower MSRP? RTX 3080 Ti LHR = $500?
2021/05/25 13:54:56
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kevinc313
ohnoplsno Your lack of logic over multiple threads is... alarming. Why would a 3080Ti have the same price as a 3070? Would that mean you sell 3070Ti at 350? Since all cards are getting LHR versions, all of them are effected the same way, making non-LHR cards just be more expensive, not the other way around.
Glad to hear we've got an expert here. LHR = DIFFERENT PART NUMBER. ENDS IN -LR Should sell for much less as it's disposable.
At least I can do some thinking, your arguments have no logic behind them. Non-LHR versions will sell higher on used market, but MSRP stays the same.
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kevinc313
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Re: Will LHR cards have a lower MSRP? RTX 3080 Ti LHR = $500?
2021/05/25 16:15:54
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ohnoplsno
kevinc313
ohnoplsno Your lack of logic over multiple threads is... alarming. Why would a 3080Ti have the same price as a 3070? Would that mean you sell 3070Ti at 350? Since all cards are getting LHR versions, all of them are effected the same way, making non-LHR cards just be more expensive, not the other way around.
Glad to hear we've got an expert here. LHR = DIFFERENT PART NUMBER. ENDS IN -LR Should sell for much less as it's disposable.
At least I can do some thinking, your arguments have no logic behind them. Non-LHR versions will sell higher on used market, but MSRP stays the same.
Higher <-----> Much Less. See how that works? GPU valuations are like a three legged stool, they depend on: - Price premium for being a or the most powerful single card solution and the cutting edge card. Nvidia has made this more important by virtually dropping SLI. But it is slightly less important this gen due to the small gap between the 3080 and 3090. It was more important with Turing due to the large gap between the 2080 and 2080 Ti. - Hashing power for mining. Every card has some sort of ROI, efficiency and ease of deployment value to a miner. Heavily dependent on various pay rates of various coins, high right now due to Ethereum, but there are other coins competing to be the next Ethereum. - Actual gaming power. Your commodity cards from say the 3060 down follow a consistent price-performance ratio. The last gen top card will eventually lose it's price premium and be valued like commodity cards, but it can get price support from crypto, if it's effective for that. But what if you remove that price support? If you cut one of the legs in half, the stool is going to sit crooked.
post edited by kevinc313 - 2021/05/25 18:29:39
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ty_ger07
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Re: Will LHR cards have a lower MSRP? RTX 3080 Ti LHR = $500?
2021/05/25 16:31:09
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Are you guys arguing the same thing?
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TheDoctorCMG
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Re: Will LHR cards have a lower MSRP? RTX 3080 Ti LHR = $500?
2021/05/25 16:49:20
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Nvidia made these cards for gaming and content creation, so whether or not they can mine will not and should not influence their MSRP. Gamers that want the best are going to shell out the dough for it because they want to game not because they are thinking about how much money they can make off of the purchase. It has never been that way and should never be that way. Prices have increased because nvidia hasn't had any sort of real competition for a while so MSRP ballooned with the 20xx series simply because they could do it and they knew AMD had nothing to compete with their high end units. Now in the future it's possible that since AMD has caught up a little bit that we may see more competitive pricing in the next generation.
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glenn37216
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Re: Will LHR cards have a lower MSRP? RTX 3080 Ti LHR = $500?
2021/05/25 16:55:26
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999... To 2000.00 usd. Confirmed price range.
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pmclean
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Re: Will LHR cards have a lower MSRP? RTX 3080 Ti LHR = $500?
2021/05/25 16:58:57
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kevinc313 I'm just curious if there will be any adjustment to the pricing of the LHR cards since they (supposedly) won't be practical for mining Ethereum. Without the nerf they would do about $10/day mining. Resale value is clearly going to be down. I'd hesitate to pay over $500 for a 3080 Ti or any card with a reduced hash rate. What's next, a ban on content creation with "gaming" cards, you have to buy a Quadro if you're going to make money from your card? Kinda sus.
You can't be serious? Is this sarcasm? The 3080 Ti is going to be more expensive than the 3080 no question about it. It will not be cheaper than a non-LHR card. They have mining cards they will sell if you want to worry about mining rates, if not they could care less. I don't think there has been a computer hardware manufacturer who priced a new generation hardware or anything based on the consumers potential resale value ever in the history of the world. At least the used LHR cards will be hopefully sell for what they are worth on the used market when they end up there. In the 90's you could pay $600-$800 for a video card and in 6 months it was barely worth anything. Yes, Nvidia always wanted consumers to buy Quadro's etc if they were used their cards for work. Nvidia is business whose number one priority is making money for their shareholders. They honestly do not care what any of us think. People complain they can't get a card because miners buy them all. Nvidia changes product stack and the GPU's to make cards less attractive to miners so gamers have hopefully easier time getting a new card now people are going to complain saying they want the new cards cheaper because now they can't mine with them. That's messed up. Also the 3090 is not changing so anyone needing cards for content creation etc still has the performance they need, with the accompanying price premium.
post edited by pmclean - 2021/05/25 17:01:49
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gsrcrxsi
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Re: Will LHR cards have a lower MSRP? RTX 3080 Ti LHR = $500?
2021/05/25 17:29:16
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EVGA doesn't make cards with mining in mind. they make cards for gaming. the fact that your gaming card is bad at mining is irrelevant to their pricing. they also don't care what the "resale" value is. they are selling a product. they don't care what you do with it after that. imagine going to a car dealership and demanding a discount on that minivan because it's bad for track racing.
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kevinc313
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Re: Will LHR cards have a lower MSRP? RTX 3080 Ti LHR = $500?
2021/05/25 18:24:26
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Nvidia and the AIB's have made BILLIONS of dollars selling cards to miners and you are hallucinating if you don't think they care about the mining market. Crypto is national news. Buying a GPU is like buying a car for many people. Fun of course, but utility and resale value are obviously factors. You use it for a while as it suits your needs and then sell it on.
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TheDoctorCMG
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Re: Will LHR cards have a lower MSRP? RTX 3080 Ti LHR = $500?
2021/05/25 18:31:32
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kevinc313 Nvidia and the AIB's have made BILLIONS of dollars selling cards to miners and you are hallucinating if you don't think they care about the mining market. Crypto is national news. Buying a GPU is like buying a car for many people. Fun of course, but utility and resale value are obviously factors. You use it for a while as it suits your needs and then sell it on.
Of course they want to take a chunk of that mining money. That's why they are trying to push miners to use their mining cards. Just like they encourage professionals to go for quadro cards by locking certain features out of their GeForce cards to make them less appealing to professionals that rely on those specific features. And if that works then the resale market for gaming cards might actually go back to a point where you aren't paying full retail for a used GPU, the way the 2nd hand market was meant to be.
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namtastic42
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Re: Will LHR cards have a lower MSRP? RTX 3080 Ti LHR = $500?
2021/05/25 18:37:34
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Sadly, no way that is ever going to happen. We'll likely even see quite the mark up for all the AIBs, like what's been happening.
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kevinc313
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Re: Will LHR cards have a lower MSRP? RTX 3080 Ti LHR = $500?
2021/05/25 18:43:30
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TheDoctorCMG Nvidia made these cards for gaming and content creation, so whether or not they can mine will not and should not influence their MSRP. Gamers that want the best are going to shell out the dough for it because they want to game not because they are thinking about how much money they can make off of the purchase. It has never been that way and should never be that way. Prices have increased because nvidia hasn't had any sort of real competition for a while so MSRP ballooned with the 20xx series simply because they could do it and they knew AMD had nothing to compete with their high end units. Now in the future it's possible that since AMD has caught up a little bit that we may see more competitive pricing in the next generation.
That's easy to say as a doctor with a HEDT system and 3090. You are the 0.01%. Maybe you've never heard of this thing called "video game systems" that most sane, normal people use to play video games and maybe you've never reviewed the steam hardware survey: https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey Most popular is the 1060, followed by the 1050 Ti and 1650. Lotta broke gamers out there. The most powerful in the top 10 is the 2070S with 2.5% share. 3080, 2080S, 2080, and 2080 Ti are all under 1%. 3090 is 0.37%. What about the high school or college kid who wants the best and has to really work at a job to get it? I bet they care about plebeian things like resale value and mining ROI. Oh, and prices ballooned in the wake of the last mining rush, don't fool yourself. AMD's AIBs are now price gouging lol.
post edited by kevinc313 - 2021/05/25 18:46:14
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kevinc313
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Re: Will LHR cards have a lower MSRP? RTX 3080 Ti LHR = $500?
2021/05/25 18:49:17
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TheDoctorCMG
kevinc313 Nvidia and the AIB's have made BILLIONS of dollars selling cards to miners and you are hallucinating if you don't think they care about the mining market. Crypto is national news. Buying a GPU is like buying a car for many people. Fun of course, but utility and resale value are obviously factors. You use it for a while as it suits your needs and then sell it on.
Of course they want to take a chunk of that mining money. That's why they are trying to push miners to use their mining cards. Just like they encourage professionals to go for quadro cards by locking certain features out of their GeForce cards to make them less appealing to professionals that rely on those specific features. And if that works then the resale market for gaming cards might actually go back to a point where you aren't paying full retail for a used GPU, the way the 2nd hand market was meant to be.
Clearly you didn't read the article I posted earlier. If Nvidia CARED, they wouldn't offer a mining CMP-whatever card with hashrate of a gimped 3060 for $700. Seriously? No miner is going to buy that.
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TheDoctorCMG
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Re: Will LHR cards have a lower MSRP? RTX 3080 Ti LHR = $500?
2021/05/25 19:12:15
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Whatever you say Kevin. You clearly possess the superior intellect and my pea brain cannot comprehend
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Dabadger84
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Re: Will LHR cards have a lower MSRP? RTX 3080 Ti LHR = $500?
2021/05/25 19:45:02
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Why would NVidia care what the card is worth to a Miner when it's made to be a gaming GPU? That's the answer to the cost question. They'll be between $1200-$1500 I have a feeling, with the 3090 retail price creeping ever upward on every brand but eVGA. There's no way in hades the 3080 Ti will ever cost less than the 3070, at launch. Probably not for a few years. Keep in mind that before the Ethereum boom that sent cards soring, a 1080 Ti was still selling for $400-$500 on EBay when the 3080s launched - a card that would then be 2 generations old. You're applying a logic to the cost of something when the logic you're applying literally doesn't matter as far as NVidia's pricing is concerned. They're pricing it where they know it will sell, with the cost of the card's production in mind. Given that the 3080 was profitable at it's launch price of $699, for NVidia, assuming the 3080 Ti will be less than $999+, with the increase in costs of pretty much every part needed to make said card, is just plain bonkers. Going from "I can't find the card I want in stock thanks to miners having hundreds of thousands of them" to "This card should cost less because it can't mine" is where some people are at eh? Hilarious.
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Fatcig
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Re: Will LHR cards have a lower MSRP? RTX 3080 Ti LHR = $500?
2021/05/25 19:59:31
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If anything LHR will stick to RRP whilst the non-LHR skyrocket in value
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kevinc313
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Re: Will LHR cards have a lower MSRP? RTX 3080 Ti LHR = $500?
2021/05/25 20:32:18
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Dabadger84 Given that the 3080 was profitable at it's launch price of $699, for NVidia, assuming the 3080 Ti will be less than $999+, with the increase in costs of pretty much every part needed to make said card, is just plain bonkers.
Nvidia is artificially reducing the capabilities and utility of the card. Period. The real problem is them shipping them pallets to online retailers who are doing little or nothing to stop rampant bot use and scalping.
post edited by kevinc313 - 2021/05/25 20:34:44
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Odesza_lorde
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Re: Will LHR cards have a lower MSRP? RTX 3080 Ti LHR = $500?
2021/05/25 20:55:29
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I heard that the LHR cards aren't nerfed in different alt coins.
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ty_ger07
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Re: Will LHR cards have a lower MSRP? RTX 3080 Ti LHR = $500?
2021/05/25 21:38:48
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kevinc313 The real problem is them shipping them pallets to online retailers who are doing little or nothing to stop rampant bot use and scalping.
It's not a problem for them, is it? From their perspective, a sale is a sale. They aren't doing anything different than they used to do, and if people are going to be crazy, people are going to be crazy. From their perspective they are just a business selling products to whoever buys them, and they don't want to get involved in the mess by bending to the will of any side. It's like an angry mob coming into your restaurant and demanding that you pick a side on a political topic, and all you want to do is sell pancakes.
post edited by ty_ger07 - 2021/05/25 21:46:42
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nikazz1993
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Re: Will LHR cards have a lower MSRP? RTX 3080 Ti LHR = $500?
2021/05/26 06:38:19
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kevinc313
TheDoctorCMG
kevinc313 Nvidia and the AIB's have made BILLIONS of dollars selling cards to miners and you are hallucinating if you don't think they care about the mining market. Crypto is national news.
Buying a GPU is like buying a car for many people. Fun of course, but utility and resale value are obviously factors. You use it for a while as it suits your needs and then sell it on.
Of course they want to take a chunk of that mining money. That's why they are trying to push miners to use their mining cards. Just like they encourage professionals to go for quadro cards by locking certain features out of their GeForce cards to make them less appealing to professionals that rely on those specific features. And if that works then the resale market for gaming cards might actually go back to a point where you aren't paying full retail for a used GPU, the way the 2nd hand market was meant to be.
Clearly you didn't read the article I posted earlier. If Nvidia CARED, they wouldn't offer a mining CMP-whatever card with hashrate of a gimped 3060 for $700. Seriously? No miner is going to buy that.
Are the CMP cards actually that bad? man, what a waste of silicon...
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kevinc313
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Re: Will LHR cards have a lower MSRP? RTX 3080 Ti LHR = $500?
2021/05/26 06:42:52
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Odesza_lorde I heard that the LHR cards aren't nerfed in different alt coins.
Yeah heard that. Also some reporting that it was only daggerhashimoto (nicehash) but that's kinda sus. If you look at whattomine you can see that Ergo is positioning to be the next popular coin to mine. https://www.whattomine.com/gpus ty_ger07
kevinc313 The real problem is them shipping them pallets to online retailers who are doing little or nothing to stop rampant bot use and scalping.
It's not a problem for them, is it? From their perspective, a sale is a sale. They aren't doing anything different than they used to do, and if people are going to be crazy, people are going to be crazy. From their perspective they are just a business selling products to whoever buys them, and they don't want to get involved in the mess by bending to the will of any side. It's like an angry mob coming into your restaurant and demanding that you pick a side on a political topic, and all you want to do is sell pancakes.
The blame lies with Nvidia who has strict pricing controls on all it's AIB's and retailers. They are not allowed to raise price in response to demand, creating the scalping market.
post edited by kevinc313 - 2021/05/26 06:44:53
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kevinc313
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Re: Will LHR cards have a lower MSRP? RTX 3080 Ti LHR = $500?
2021/05/26 07:06:06
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nikazz1993
kevinc313
TheDoctorCMG
kevinc313 Nvidia and the AIB's have made BILLIONS of dollars selling cards to miners and you are hallucinating if you don't think they care about the mining market. Crypto is national news.
Buying a GPU is like buying a car for many people. Fun of course, but utility and resale value are obviously factors. You use it for a while as it suits your needs and then sell it on.
Of course they want to take a chunk of that mining money. That's why they are trying to push miners to use their mining cards. Just like they encourage professionals to go for quadro cards by locking certain features out of their GeForce cards to make them less appealing to professionals that rely on those specific features. And if that works then the resale market for gaming cards might actually go back to a point where you aren't paying full retail for a used GPU, the way the 2nd hand market was meant to be.
Clearly you didn't read the article I posted earlier. If Nvidia CARED, they wouldn't offer a mining CMP-whatever card with hashrate of a gimped 3060 for $700. Seriously? No miner is going to buy that.
Are the CMP cards actually that bad? man, what a waste of silicon...
Yes and no. The 30HX was reported to be really bad, looks like the 40HX is not quite as bad but still entirely terrible: https://www.techpowerup.c...edly-priced-at-699-usd So the 3080 does 98-102 MH/s while this 40HX does 43 MH/s at $699. LOL. It should be noted this 40HX is virtually identical to a 2070 and hashes the same, so they are basically selling an underpowered, no video, last gen card for $200 over 2018 MSRP. Not sure if LHR means 'half' or what, but it sounds like the LHR cards will be in same ballpark as these CMP cards. Of course, miners are tech savvy and not morons, they are very aware of ROI when buying hardware.
post edited by kevinc313 - 2021/05/26 08:01:26
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ty_ger07
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Re: Will LHR cards have a lower MSRP? RTX 3080 Ti LHR = $500?
2021/05/26 08:09:41
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kevinc313
ty_ger07
kevinc313 The real problem is them shipping them pallets to online retailers who are doing little or nothing to stop rampant bot use and scalping.
It's not a problem for them, is it? From their perspective, a sale is a sale. They aren't doing anything different than they used to do, and if people are going to be crazy, people are going to be crazy. From their perspective they are just a business selling products to whoever buys them, and they don't want to get involved in the mess by bending to the will of any side. It's like an angry mob coming into your restaurant and demanding that you pick a side on a political topic, and all you want to do is sell pancakes.
The blame lies with Nvidia who has strict pricing controls on all it's AIB's and retailers. They are not allowed to raise price in response to demand, creating the scalping market.
But the scalpers are third-parties, aren't they? Amazon is just providing a storefront, right?
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kevinc313
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Re: Will LHR cards have a lower MSRP? RTX 3080 Ti LHR = $500?
2021/05/26 08:17:45
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ty_ger07
kevinc313
ty_ger07
kevinc313 The real problem is them shipping them pallets to online retailers who are doing little or nothing to stop rampant bot use and scalping.
It's not a problem for them, is it? From their perspective, a sale is a sale. They aren't doing anything different than they used to do, and if people are going to be crazy, people are going to be crazy. From their perspective they are just a business selling products to whoever buys them, and they don't want to get involved in the mess by bending to the will of any side. It's like an angry mob coming into your restaurant and demanding that you pick a side on a political topic, and all you want to do is sell pancakes.
The blame lies with Nvidia who has strict pricing controls on all it's AIB's and retailers. They are not allowed to raise price in response to demand, creating the scalping market.
But the scalpers are third-parties, aren't they? Amazon is just providing a storefront, right?
Should have been more clear. It's not the duty of the retailers to prohibit scalping, contractually or morally, however some have tried. But Nvidia and the AIB's know what is happening. The most reasonable thing (eco 101) to do is allow the retailers to float the price and give Nvidia/AIB's kickbacks based on the selling price.
post edited by kevinc313 - 2021/05/26 08:43:14
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Stickboy46
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Re: Will LHR cards have a lower MSRP? RTX 3080 Ti LHR = $500?
2021/05/26 09:17:44
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NVIDIA Board Meeting: CEO: "We've got near unlimited demand for our product and we can't get anywhere close to an adequate supply. Let's release a gimped version. How much more should we charge for it to maximize profits?" Employee 1: "Well since it's gimped, we should LOWER the price" CEO: "........" Employee 1: "I'll go pack up my desk"
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Rawestthebombak
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Re: Will LHR cards have a lower MSRP? RTX 3080 Ti LHR = $500?
2021/05/26 09:21:40
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lmao OP sounds like you got a personal problem. Nvidia would be taking a loss at $500 pretty sure....
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nikazz1993
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Re: Will LHR cards have a lower MSRP? RTX 3080 Ti LHR = $500?
2021/05/26 09:34:39
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kevinc313
nikazz1993
kevinc313
TheDoctorCMG
kevinc313 Nvidia and the AIB's have made BILLIONS of dollars selling cards to miners and you are hallucinating if you don't think they care about the mining market. Crypto is national news.
Buying a GPU is like buying a car for many people. Fun of course, but utility and resale value are obviously factors. You use it for a while as it suits your needs and then sell it on.
Of course they want to take a chunk of that mining money. That's why they are trying to push miners to use their mining cards. Just like they encourage professionals to go for quadro cards by locking certain features out of their GeForce cards to make them less appealing to professionals that rely on those specific features. And if that works then the resale market for gaming cards might actually go back to a point where you aren't paying full retail for a used GPU, the way the 2nd hand market was meant to be.
Clearly you didn't read the article I posted earlier. If Nvidia CARED, they wouldn't offer a mining CMP-whatever card with hashrate of a gimped 3060 for $700. Seriously? No miner is going to buy that.
Are the CMP cards actually that bad? man, what a waste of silicon...
Yes and no. The 30HX was reported to be really bad, looks like the 40HX is not quite as bad but still entirely terrible: https://www.techpowerup.c...edly-priced-at-699-usd So the 3080 does 98-102 MH/s while this 40HX does 43 MH/s at $699. LOL. It should be noted this 40HX is virtually identical to a 2070 and hashes the same, so they are basically selling an underpowered, no video, last gen card for $200 over 2018 MSRP. Not sure if LHR means 'half' or what, but it sounds like the LHR cards will be in same ballpark as these CMP cards. Of course, miners are tech savvy and not morons, they are very aware of ROI when buying hardware.
It's just kind of crazy how they're putting all of this effort into making a custom line of specialized cards just to make them so obviously undesirable to miners. Like if the CMPs at least blew all the gaming GPUs out of the water with their hashing performance, then it would it would somewhat push miners to evaluate the pros and cons of getting a CMP vs a GPU. But this way its just useless. Pooping practice for the seagulls on the garbage island..
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kevinc313
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Re: Will LHR cards have a lower MSRP? RTX 3080 Ti LHR = $500?
2021/05/26 09:51:03
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Rawestthebombak lmao OP sounds like you got a personal problem. Nvidia would be taking a loss at $500 pretty sure....
You bet I've got a problem. I've been waiting 6+ months for a 3080 Ti and won't buy a gimped card.
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hashmeir70
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Re: Will LHR cards have a lower MSRP? RTX 3080 Ti LHR = $500?
2021/05/26 09:54:00
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kevinc313
Rawestthebombak lmao OP sounds like you got a personal problem. Nvidia would be taking a loss at $500 pretty sure....
You bet I've got a problem. I've been waiting 6+ months for a 3080 Ti and won't buy a gimped card.
I have 3 non LHR 3080s if you wanna trade me a 3080Ti
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kevinc313
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Re: Will LHR cards have a lower MSRP? RTX 3080 Ti LHR = $500?
2021/05/26 10:11:10
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nikazz1993
kevinc313 Yes and no. The 30HX was reported to be really bad, looks like the 40HX is not quite as bad but still entirely terrible: https://www.techpowerup.c...edly-priced-at-699-usd So the 3080 does 98-102 MH/s while this 40HX does 43 MH/s at $699. LOL. It should be noted this 40HX is virtually identical to a 2070 and hashes the same, so they are basically selling an underpowered, no video, last gen card for $200 over 2018 MSRP. Not sure if LHR means 'half' or what, but it sounds like the LHR cards will be in same ballpark as these CMP cards. Of course, miners are tech savvy and not morons, they are very aware of ROI when buying hardware.
It's just kind of crazy how they're putting all of this effort into making a custom line of specialized cards just to make them so obviously undesirable to miners. Like if the CMPs at least blew all the gaming GPUs out of the water with their hashing performance, then it would it would somewhat push miners to evaluate the pros and cons of getting a CMP vs a GPU. But this way its just useless. Pooping practice for the seagulls on the garbage island..
Well, they must have talked to some experts and looked at the current prices on Bitmain gear vs. scalper prices on GPU's, the 40HX ROI is right about 250 days, same as other scalper priced gpu's and less than proper bitcoin gear.
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