ReZpawN
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Re: Watch dogs legion performance on 3080 might be vram limited
2020/10/29 08:13:51
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I think its showing vram requested and assuming it needs that so it keeps telling me on the benchmark that I don't have enough vram
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Cptken
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Re: Watch dogs legion performance on 3080 might be vram limited
2020/10/29 08:17:55
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The Watchdogs Legion benchmark shows me the vram utilization before and after the benchmark
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schmak01
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Re: Watch dogs legion performance on 3080 might be vram limited
2020/10/29 08:23:20
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CraptacularOne It's not VRAM limited what the game is reporting is VRAM requested. Looks to be less than ideally optimized. My RTX 3090 running the same settings with ultra RT and 100% object detail (I'm also using the ultra HD texture pack) returned an average of about 40fps at 4K.
Folks think VRAM works like RAM, which it does, but some games treat it like SQL treats RAM, allocate as much as you may need and manage the assets in that allocation, instead of taking only what you need. It's more like if you were planning on constructing a building, do you either A) only buy the parts of the lot that you are building on or B) buy the whole lot at once. Granted A) is not feasable in construction typically, but this is kinda what they do. It's not USING all 10 GB, it's just Allocated, or walled off, the 10 GB.
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mobhill
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Re: Watch dogs legion performance on 3080 might be vram limited
2020/10/29 08:43:19
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schmak01
CraptacularOne It's not VRAM limited what the game is reporting is VRAM requested. Looks to be less than ideally optimized. My RTX 3090 running the same settings with ultra RT and 100% object detail (I'm also using the ultra HD texture pack) returned an average of about 40fps at 4K.
Folks think VRAM works like RAM, which it does, but some games treat it like SQL treats RAM, allocate as much as you may need and manage the assets in that allocation, instead of taking only what you need. It's more like if you were planning on constructing a building, do you either A) only buy the parts of the lot that you are building on or B) buy the whole lot at once. Granted A) is not feasable in construction typically, but this is kinda what they do. It's not USING all 10 GB, it's just Allocated, or walled off, the 10 GB.
From what I've seen, you will notice when you hit a VRAM limitation. If I max out my VRAM with massive shiny Skyrim mods for example, it will kill my FPS.
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LinS123
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Re: Watch dogs legion performance on 3080 might be vram limited
2020/10/29 09:01:24
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I did three runs: RT on ultra no DLSS, RT on ultra with DLSS balanced and RT off no DLSS. This was with the HD texture pack and every option on max, except the car reflection option (?) was set to two cars. This was done with a 3900X at stock stock with 32GB DDR4 3600CL16 with a 4K LG 27GN950. I can do more runs if people want.
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CraptacularOne
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Re: Watch dogs legion performance on 3080 might be vram limited
2020/10/29 09:08:59
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Guys, all this testing is a waste when there is going to be a performance patch tomorrow.
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arestavo
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Re: Watch dogs legion performance on 3080 might be vram limited
2020/10/29 15:23:37
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Literally maxed @4K w/ HD texture pack (motion blur off, as always): Literally maxed @4K with DLSS set to Quality w/ HD texture pack (I can't tell the difference, other than FPS): Personally, I'd say this is actually looking really good right now. Oh, and this was with my +100 / +600 gaming OC on my 3090 FTW3 Ultra (GPU core stayed around 1900 to 1920 MHz for this game benchmark). Gsync off for this benchmark. If they manage to give us some more performance with that patch, that'll be nice. But with a Gsync TV and DLSS set to quality, I am happy as is. EDIT: As to VRAM, the game said 8.9GB would be needed in the settings display (without DLSS), and while running the benchmark I saw up to 11.2GB in use.
post edited by arestavo - 2020/10/29 15:34:01
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scott@bjorn3d
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Re: Watch dogs legion performance on 3080 might be vram limited
2020/10/29 17:19:32
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Well I am at 1440 and with everything maxed get getting 79FPS average.
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Dabadger84
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Re: Watch dogs legion performance on 3080 might be vram limited
2020/10/29 20:29:36
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bavor
ReZpawN So I played watch dogs legion this morning and at 4k 60 with everything maxed I'm over 10gb according to the in-game benchmark, it tells me that not enough vram is what's holding the game back, i tried it with object detail and ray tracing on and off, with object detail off and rt off im at 60+ fps but the game still says its over 10gb vram, with both those things on I'm at like 30 fps, and in the graphics settings with those settings it still says game needs 9gb of vram, ingame benchmark is very detailed and shows what impact each setting has on cpu,gpu and vram, frametime, vram and ram usage, etc
Are you absolutely sure the benchmark is showing you VRAM in use and not VRAM requested? Most software only shows VRAM requested and not actual VRAM in use.
Based on the fact that the amount of RAM it says it's using goes down when you lower settings, and does change during the benchmark, I would say that is ACTUAL vRAM it's using, not just requesting. I've seen as high as 9.4GB listed as being used or requested with the game maxed out at 3440 x 1440. So it seems to me that the "9.4GB" thing may be a mixture of being reserved and actually being used. But it does go down to about 8.7GB just by lowering RTX & "Extra Details", though the ladder doesn't result in much of an increase in FPS. When you actually hit the vRAM limit & go over it, you will notice, because your performance will tank or the game will crash depending on how it's coded.
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Dabadger84
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Re: Watch dogs legion performance on 3080 might be vram limited
2020/10/29 22:36:56
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arestavo Literally maxed @4K w/ HD texture pack (motion blur off, as always): Literally maxed @4K with DLSS set to Quality w/ HD texture pack (I can't tell the difference, other than FPS): Personally, I'd say this is actually looking really good right now. Oh, and this was with my +100 / +600 gaming OC on my 3090 FTW3 Ultra (GPU core stayed around 1900 to 1920 MHz for this game benchmark). Gsync off for this benchmark. If they manage to give us some more performance with that patch, that'll be nice. But with a Gsync TV and DLSS set to quality, I am happy as is. EDIT: As to VRAM, the game said 8.9GB would be needed in the settings display (without DLSS), and while running the benchmark I saw up to 11.2GB in use.
DLSS Quality is definitely very nice looking in this particular title & does give you quite the performance uplift. It basically doubled my FPS and I was watching pretty closely throughout the benchmark, couldn't tell much of any difference. Performance DLSS you can DEFINITELY SEE it and not in a good way, but Quality looks great.
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Cptken
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Re: Watch dogs legion performance on 3080 might be vram limited
2020/10/30 06:55:30
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Watch Dogs Performance Update is here. FPS have more than doubled in 4K, ULTRA, RTX ULTRA and DLSS balanced. Now an average of 60 FPS with the previously mentioned settings.
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CraptacularOne
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Re: Watch dogs legion performance on 3080 might be vram limited
2020/10/30 07:12:48
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Cptken Watch Dogs Performance Update is here. FPS have more than doubled in 4K, ULTRA, RTX ULTRA and DLSS balanced. Now an average of 60 FPS with the previously mentioned settings.
No, performance hasn't been anywhere near doubled. While the patch does indeed bump frame rate up a little bit from previous, what seems to have been improved is the frame spikes and dips. Game feels much smoother than it did previously. Performance however has only gained maybe another 5-7fps average but the minimum frames have indeed come up significantly. Which is more important anyway.
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Dabadger84
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Re: Watch dogs legion performance on 3080 might be vram limited
2020/10/30 07:19:21
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Cptken Watch Dogs Performance Update is here. FPS have more than doubled in 4K, ULTRA, RTX ULTRA and DLSS balanced. Now an average of 60 FPS with the previously mentioned settings.
I'll update it & give word on how the 3080/Ultrawide has reacted.
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Leekay07
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Re: Watch dogs legion performance on 3080 might be vram limited
2020/10/30 07:19:44
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Edited because Pics didn't work
post edited by Leekay07 - 2020/10/30 07:23:57
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Dabadger84
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Re: Watch dogs legion performance on 3080 might be vram limited
2020/10/30 07:23:11
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My frame times were very consistently previous to the patch, I'm downloading it now, I live in the middle of nowhere with ancient-level internet so it'll be about 30 minutes before I can run an updated benchmark.
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CraptacularOne
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Re: Watch dogs legion performance on 3080 might be vram limited
2020/10/30 07:40:56
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Dabadger84 My frame times were very consistently previous to the patch, I'm downloading it now, I live in the middle of nowhere with ancient-level internet so it'll be about 30 minutes before I can run an updated benchmark.
Yikes, 30 mins for 1.44GB patch?
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Leekay07
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Re: Watch dogs legion performance on 3080 might be vram limited
2020/10/30 07:41:40
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This is what your all looking for. This is 3440x1440 Ray trace only. Vram is maxed. And system is spiking badly due to vram issue.
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something cool in the neighbor hood.
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Dabadger84
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Re: Watch dogs legion performance on 3080 might be vram limited
2020/10/30 07:46:36
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CraptacularOne
Dabadger84 My frame times were very consistently previous to the patch, I'm downloading it now, I live in the middle of nowhere with ancient-level internet so it'll be about 30 minutes before I can run an updated benchmark.
Yikes, 30 mins for 1.44GB patch?
Significantly faster than what I used to be on, it used to take an hour to do 900MB on the previous connection I had.
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Dabadger84
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Re: Watch dogs legion performance on 3080 might be vram limited
2020/10/30 07:59:33
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Yikes. My numbers are now worse because of a few really bad spikes in frame times during the explosions. Gonna reboot to verify it's not a system-lag issue. Maybe it's the new driver & the update not playing nice with eachother. Edit: This was after the reboot, this is 3440 x 1440, maximum settings, RTX on Ultra, DLSS on Quality: You can see there's still some huge frame time spikes, that mostly weren't present before (this run was done with DLSS off so the FPS itself is not comparable) : And the majority of the new ones definitely seem to be happening around when the explosions happen, so that's something they'll iron out in future patches, on would hope.
post edited by Dabadger84 - 2020/10/30 08:11:21
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R1c4n
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Re: Watch dogs legion performance on 3080 might be vram limited
2020/10/30 08:14:23
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I'm confused why some people don't ALWAYS use DLSS quality mode, it's a free FPS boost and it's the easiest way to get stability when using Ray-Tracing. nVidia has a crap ton of AI Tensor cores on the cards and some people just won't use it, it's crazy to me.
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arestavo
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Re: Watch dogs legion performance on 3080 might be vram limited
2020/10/30 08:16:35
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R1c4n I'm confused why some people don't ALWAYS use DLSS quality mode, it's a free FPS boost and it's the easiest way to get stability when using Ray-Tracing.
Some people think it reduces image quality. But I've read that DLSS 2.0 fixed that. I couldn't tell the difference 6 feet away from my 65" LG CX, but maybe someone placing their face against the panel could.
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Dabadger84
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Re: Watch dogs legion performance on 3080 might be vram limited
2020/10/30 08:20:16
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DLSS 2.0 does excellent work if implemented properly. The DLSS Quality setting specifically in WD Legion seems to do a great job, it's a big uplift in FPS & it's very hard to tell where if anywhere there is a visible loss in image quality as a result, at least in the benchmark. I won't be playing the actual game for a while yet, I'm still working on finishing the GTA V Single Player, then after that I'll be doing Watch Dogs, Watch Dogs 2, then Legion...
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army165
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Re: Watch dogs legion performance on 3080 might be vram limited
2020/10/30 11:08:25
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Until a program releases that shows actual VRAM consumption instead of allocation, no one actually knows how much is being used.
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arestavo
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Re: Watch dogs legion performance on 3080 might be vram limited
2020/10/30 12:08:06
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army165 Until a program releases that shows actual VRAM consumption instead of allocation, no one actually knows how much is being used.
To be fair, the game settings show that it needs 8.9GB of VRAM at 4K everything maxed except DLSS off. The game developers should know this, as they do have access to those kind of tools when they develop a game. And since my 3090 with 24GB of VRAM was showing 11.2GB is used (per AB) in the benchmark with everything maxed at 4K with DLSS off, and a 3080 was showing 9.8 (or was it 10?) and was within the 15 or 20% difference in FPS expected from a 3080 to 3090 (more RT cores not just CUDA cores, remember), it's safe to say that the game allocates more than is in active use.
post edited by arestavo - 2020/10/30 12:11:12
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CraptacularOne
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Re: Watch dogs legion performance on 3080 might be vram limited
2020/10/30 12:24:59
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arestavo
army165 Until a program releases that shows actual VRAM consumption instead of allocation, no one actually knows how much is being used.
To be fair, the game settings show that it needs 8.9GB of VRAM at 4K everything maxed except DLSS off. The game developers should know this, as they do have access to those kind of tools when they develop a game.
And since my 3090 with 24GB of VRAM was showing 11.2GB is used (per AB) in the benchmark with everything maxed at 4K with DLSS off, and a 3080 was showing 9.8 (or was it 10?) and was within the 15 or 20% difference in FPS expected from a 3080 to 3090 (more RT cores not just CUDA cores, remember), it's safe to say that the game allocates more than is in active use.
What the game is showing is how much VRAM is allocated by the game engine not how much the game is actually using. Game engines (most anyway) will try to allocate as much as possible (to a certain degree) so the game can cache assets and textures to minimize load times. This game also uses asset streaming and pre loading in the background which is a popular technique in large open world games so it's really impossible to tell how much VRAM the game world is being used to render at any given time. This game does not exhibit any of the symptoms of actual VRAM limitations on even my RTX 2070 Super even when running the game at 4K. There are no hard stalls and hitches as game assets are being swapped from the page file as would be the case if it were actually VRAM limited. Most people have never actually seen what real VRAM limiting looks like and just assume little stutters or spikes as being VRAM limited. This is not at all the case, it's just engine optimization issues. If you were really VRAM limited it would be a virtual slideshow until assets are loaded.
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army165
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Re: Watch dogs legion performance on 3080 might be vram limited
2020/10/30 12:28:35
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CraptacularOne
arestavo
army165 Until a program releases that shows actual VRAM consumption instead of allocation, no one actually knows how much is being used.
To be fair, the game settings show that it needs 8.9GB of VRAM at 4K everything maxed except DLSS off. The game developers should know this, as they do have access to those kind of tools when they develop a game.
And since my 3090 with 24GB of VRAM was showing 11.2GB is used (per AB) in the benchmark with everything maxed at 4K with DLSS off, and a 3080 was showing 9.8 (or was it 10?) and was within the 15 or 20% difference in FPS expected from a 3080 to 3090 (more RT cores not just CUDA cores, remember), it's safe to say that the game allocates more than is in active use.
What the game is showing is how much VRAM is allocated by the game engine not how much the game is actually using. Game engines (most anyway) will try to allocate as much as possible (to a certain degree) so the game can cache assets and textures to minimize load times. This game also uses asset streaming and pre loading in the background which is a popular technique in large open world games so it's really impossible to tell how much VRAM the game world is being used to render at any given time. This game does not exhibit any of the symptoms of actual VRAM limitations on even my RTX 2070 Super even when running the game at 4K. There are no hard stalls and hitches as game assets are being swapped from the page file as would be the case if it were actually VRAM limited. Most people have never actually seen what real VRAM limiting looks like and just assume little stutters or spikes as being VRAM limited. This is not at all the case, it's just engine optimization issues. If you were really VRAM limited it would be a virtual slideshow until assets are loaded.
I remember the 3.5GB's on the GTX970, lol. Thanks for the much better explanation than I could gather at the time.
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