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The hardest stutter to troubleshoot

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mpw90
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Re: The hardest stutter to troubleshoot 2018/09/04 07:00:02 (permalink)
As can be seen here: https://i.imgur.com/G3QbAsq.png -- the spikes are still happening, but to a lesser degree. This is after a new SSD and new RAM.
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wmmills
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Re: The hardest stutter to troubleshoot 2018/09/04 07:21:55 (permalink)
Have you tried playing a purely offline game? WoW is terrible for online lag and years ago there were in-game certain character setups that people would run that would make it bad for everybody. With 16gb of ram you should set your pagefile at maybe 256 for the min and 2048 for the max should be more than enough as long as your doing O/S backups all the time. So O/S is on SSD by itself with the page file? Games are on the Seagate? Seagates are historically bad drives so if you could use a smaller drive, put a game on it that's not a mmo or online dependent at all.... like if you have a old disc of Neverwinter nights or Quake, then play it and see what happens that might tell you a lot more than you think. Do you have windows 10's updates and telemetry off for sure?!?! Unplug one of the monitors and only use one for now, preferably at min settings like 60hz on the monitor and make sure that in the nvidia control center you have it setup to run max power not adaptive.
 
post edited by wmmills - 2018/09/04 07:26:12

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squall-leonhart
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Re: The hardest stutter to troubleshoot 2018/09/04 07:58:18 (permalink)
HeavyHemi
Something I noticed
 

 
 
Your page file is gradually increasing. This shouldn't be happening. It looks like you're accessing and using the page file for the game and this will cause hitching and stuttering. What else to you have running in the background?




 
This is how a system looks with the Standby cache bug

CPU:Intel Xeon x5690 @ 4.2Ghz, Mainboard:Asus Rampage III Extreme, Memory:48GB Corsair Vengeance LP 1600
Video:EVGA Geforce GTX 1080 Founders Edition, NVidia Geforce GTX 1060 Founders Edition
Monitor:BenQ G2400WD, BenQ BL2211, Sound:Creative XFI Titanium Fatal1ty Pro
SDD:Crucial MX300 275, Crucial MX300 525, Crucial MX300 1000
HDD:500GB Spinpoint F3, 1TB WD Black, 2TB WD Red, 1TB WD Black
Case:NZXT Phantom 820, PSU:Seasonic X-850, OS:Windows 7 SP1
Cooler: ThermalRight Silver Arrow IB-E Extreme
#33
squall-leonhart
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Re: The hardest stutter to troubleshoot 2018/09/04 08:06:14 (permalink)
Component List
CPU: AMD - Ryzen 5 1600 3.2GHz 6-Core Processor   =  several early batches of Ryzen processors had a SMT defect, replacing the cpu is a good idea if you bought prior to batch 25
you can confirm if you're affected using this https://github.com/corngood/kill-ryzen-win
 
Motherboard: ASRock - AB350M Pro4 Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard = Asrock B350 boards have a slew of issues that seem to  come down to poor implementation of the system firmware
 
Storage: Crucial - MX300 275GB 2.5" Solid State Drive = Check firmware
Storage: Seagate - BarraCuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive = check smart for raw error spam.
 
Case: Thermaltake - Core V21 MicroATX Mini Tower Case = I'm seeing examples of this case with the graphics card on a Riser slot, remove this if you have one.
Wireless Network Adapter: Gigabyte - GC-WB867D-I PCI-Express x1 802.11a/b/g/n/ac Wi-Fi Adapter = these use intel chipsets,  grab the latest intel wireless and bluetooth packages.
post edited by squall-leonhart - 2018/09/04 08:09:29

CPU:Intel Xeon x5690 @ 4.2Ghz, Mainboard:Asus Rampage III Extreme, Memory:48GB Corsair Vengeance LP 1600
Video:EVGA Geforce GTX 1080 Founders Edition, NVidia Geforce GTX 1060 Founders Edition
Monitor:BenQ G2400WD, BenQ BL2211, Sound:Creative XFI Titanium Fatal1ty Pro
SDD:Crucial MX300 275, Crucial MX300 525, Crucial MX300 1000
HDD:500GB Spinpoint F3, 1TB WD Black, 2TB WD Red, 1TB WD Black
Case:NZXT Phantom 820, PSU:Seasonic X-850, OS:Windows 7 SP1
Cooler: ThermalRight Silver Arrow IB-E Extreme
#34
mpw90
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Re: The hardest stutter to troubleshoot 2018/09/04 08:15:38 (permalink)
wmmills
Have you tried playing a purely offline game? 



I will try this. I believe I have. But I will physically disable the drivers to ensure this.
 
wmmills
With 16gb of ram you should set your pagefile at maybe 256 for the min and 2048 for the max should be more than enough as long as your doing O/S backups all the time. So O/S is on SSD by itself with the page file? 

 
I have tried with small page file, system managed page file, and large page file. Yes the SSD holds the page file.
 
wmmills
Games are on the Seagate? Seagates are historically bad drives so if you could use a smaller drive, put a game on it that's not a mmo or online dependent at all

 
Games are on the SSD, and I have tried both SSD and HDD. I even just changed the SSD 275GB to a 500GB one. Same.
 
wmmills
make sure that in the nvidia control center you have it setup to run max power not adaptive.

 
Already did all this, and tried again last night, sadly.
#35
squall-leonhart
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Re: The hardest stutter to troubleshoot 2018/09/04 08:17:11 (permalink)
ignore those pagefile recommendations,  set a min as required by the crash logging and then the max at 100% of your installed ram.

CPU:Intel Xeon x5690 @ 4.2Ghz, Mainboard:Asus Rampage III Extreme, Memory:48GB Corsair Vengeance LP 1600
Video:EVGA Geforce GTX 1080 Founders Edition, NVidia Geforce GTX 1060 Founders Edition
Monitor:BenQ G2400WD, BenQ BL2211, Sound:Creative XFI Titanium Fatal1ty Pro
SDD:Crucial MX300 275, Crucial MX300 525, Crucial MX300 1000
HDD:500GB Spinpoint F3, 1TB WD Black, 2TB WD Red, 1TB WD Black
Case:NZXT Phantom 820, PSU:Seasonic X-850, OS:Windows 7 SP1
Cooler: ThermalRight Silver Arrow IB-E Extreme
#36
mpw90
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Re: The hardest stutter to troubleshoot 2018/09/04 08:20:15 (permalink)
squall-leonhart
HeavyHemi
Something I noticed
 

 
 
Your page file is gradually increasing. This shouldn't be happening. It looks like you're accessing and using the page file for the game and this will cause hitching and stuttering. What else to you have running in the background?




 
This is how a system looks with the Standby cache bug




The thing is that the stutters occur on Linux Mint, too. It does help when I clear the Standby Memory, I admit. But it will still stutter.
 
squall-leonhart
several early batches of Ryzen processors had a SMT defect, replacing the cpu is a good idea if you bought prior to batch 25
you can confirm if you're affected using this https://github.com/corngood/kill-ryzen-win

 
I will test this. Thank you.
 
squall-leonhart
Motherboard: ASRock - AB350M Pro4 Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard = Asrock B350 boards have a slew of issues that seem to  come down to poor implementation of the system firmware

 
Indeed. I have had many, many issues. I have a Gigabyte board to test tonight after all of these suggestions.
 
squall-leonhart
Storage: Crucial - MX300 275GB 2.5" Solid State Drive = Check firmware

 
Already did. Up to date.
 
squall-leonhart
Storage: Seagate - BarraCuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive = check smart for raw error spam.

 
I've used many disk applications and encountered no issues with this drive. For instance, CrystalDisk, to name one. But there were at least two others I have used.
 
squall-leonhart
Case: Thermaltake - Core V21 MicroATX Mini Tower Case = I'm seeing examples of this case with the graphics card on a Riser slot, remove this if you have one.

 
Remove the riser? I don't believe it is in place.
 
squall-leonhart
Wireless Network Adapter: Gigabyte - GC-WB867D-I PCI-Express x1 802.11a/b/g/n/ac Wi-Fi Adapter = these use intel chipsets,  grab the latest intel wireless and bluetooth packages.



Of course, I have tried the latest Intel packages. Realtek packages. I have even removed it entirely and disabled drivers. It's 100% not this piece of hardware.
#37
mpw90
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Re: The hardest stutter to troubleshoot 2018/09/04 08:35:28 (permalink)
squall-leonhart
Component List
CPU: AMD - Ryzen 5 1600 3.2GHz 6-Core Processor   =  several early batches of Ryzen processors had a SMT defect, replacing the cpu is a good idea if you bought prior to batch 25
you can confirm if you're affected using this https://github.com/corngood/kill-ryzen-win



I had heard about this early after purchasing Ryzen, and entirely forgot to check it. I read that it can display false positives?
 
C:\Users\mpw90\Desktop\Stutter Solving\kill-ryzen-win-master>bin\x64\Release\kill-ryzen-win || exit /b
bzip2.c
bzip2.c
bzip2.c
bzip2.c
bzip2.c
bzip2.c
bzip2.c
bzip2.c
bzip2.c
bzip2.c
bzip2.c
bzip2.c
bzip2.c
bzip2.c
bzip2.c
bzip2.c
bzip2.c
bzip2.c
bzip2.c
bzip2.c
bzip2.c
bzip2.c
bzip2.c
bzip2.c
Unhandled Exception: System.AggregateException: One or more errors occurred. ---> System.Exception: FAIL
at kill_ryzen_win.Program.<>c__DisplayClass0_0.<Main>b__0(Int32 x) in C:\Users\mpw90\Desktop\Stutter Solving\kill-ryzen-win-master\Program.cs:line 43
at System.Threading.Tasks.Parallel.<>c__DisplayClass17_0`1.<ForWorker>b__1()
at System.Threading.Tasks.Task.InnerInvokeWithArg(Task childTask)
at System.Threading.Tasks.Task.<>c__DisplayClass176_0.<ExecuteSelfReplicating>b__0(Object )
--- End of inner exception stack trace ---
at System.Threading.Tasks.Task.ThrowIfExceptional(Boolean includeTaskCanceledExceptions)
at System.Threading.Tasks.Task.Wait(Int32 millisecondsTimeout, CancellationToken cancellationToken)
at System.Threading.Tasks.Parallel.ForWorker[TLocal](Int32 fromInclusive, Int32 toExclusive, ParallelOptions parallelOptions, Action`1 body, Action`2 bodyWithState, Func`4 bodyWithLocal, Func`1 localInit, Action`1 localFinally)
at System.Threading.Tasks.Parallel.For(Int32 fromInclusive, Int32 toExclusive, Action`1 body)
at kill_ryzen_win.Program.Main(String[] args) in C:\Users\mpw90\Desktop\Stutter Solving\kill-ryzen-win-master\Program.cs:line 51
post edited by mpw90 - 2018/09/04 08:37:38
#38
squall-leonhart
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Re: The hardest stutter to troubleshoot 2018/09/04 09:20:49 (permalink)
It can, but only where there are underlying system stability issues.
 
There is a way to test using x265 cpu encoder, but im not sure what settings are used.
 
https://forum.level1techs...ation-rma-issue/118658

CPU:Intel Xeon x5690 @ 4.2Ghz, Mainboard:Asus Rampage III Extreme, Memory:48GB Corsair Vengeance LP 1600
Video:EVGA Geforce GTX 1080 Founders Edition, NVidia Geforce GTX 1060 Founders Edition
Monitor:BenQ G2400WD, BenQ BL2211, Sound:Creative XFI Titanium Fatal1ty Pro
SDD:Crucial MX300 275, Crucial MX300 525, Crucial MX300 1000
HDD:500GB Spinpoint F3, 1TB WD Black, 2TB WD Red, 1TB WD Black
Case:NZXT Phantom 820, PSU:Seasonic X-850, OS:Windows 7 SP1
Cooler: ThermalRight Silver Arrow IB-E Extreme
#39
mpw90
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Re: The hardest stutter to troubleshoot 2018/09/04 14:47:26 (permalink)
Okay, as much as it pains me to say, I don't think it's the ASRock AB350m Pro4. Though, thankfully it's not. After 4 RMA's!
I tried the Gigabyte AB350M-DS3H and the stutters were still occurring.
New motherboard frametime spikes 1 - https://i.imgur.com/WLzCW2z.png
New motherboard frametime spieks 2 - https://i.imgur.com/1zkMAHI.png
So, I am beginning to think this *is* the CPU.
So, I am at a loss still.. This CPU was manufactured in Malysia week 42 of 2017.
If indeed this is an AMD issue, I would actually be kind of furious. This has been 6 months of struggling to find the cause. Whilst I would be relieved to discover it is indeed the cause (what else can it be at this point), it would be my second CPU, 4th motherboard, 3rd lot of RAM, 2nd GPU, 2nd SSD, and 4 or 5 installation of Windows, and maybe 3rd installation of Linux.
Not to mention all the time consumed updating drivers, BIOS, disabling services, plugging and unplugging cables, and using the screw driver, and thermal paste, etc.
#40
bob16314
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Re: The hardest stutter to troubleshoot 2018/09/04 19:18:34 (permalink)
I doubt the processor is faulty..You might try something like Core Park Manager, some people say they have fixed game stuttering with it but looks like you did that in the Windows Advanced Power Plan settings (100% minimum processor state)..There's also an AMD Ryzen Balanced power plan that's supposed to be better than the Windows high performance plan for AMD CPUs.
 
Enable or Disable CPU Core Parking in Windows 10/8/7

There's also High Precision Event Timer and Simultaneous Multithreading you could mess with.

Some things you may have already tried (I just skimmed through this thread quickly), but I'm just throwing some stuff up in the air here..There's articles/videos on how to optimize AMD Ryzen CPUs, search.
 
Good luck.

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#41
mpw90
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Re: The hardest stutter to troubleshoot 2018/09/05 02:26:40 (permalink)
bob16314
I doubt the processor is faulty..You might try something like Core Park Manager, some people say they have fixed game stuttering with it but looks like you did that in the Windows Advanced Power Plan settings (100% minimum processor state)..There's also an AMD Ryzen Balanced power plan that's supposed to be better than the Windows high performance plan for AMD CPUs.

Enable or Disable CPU Core Parking in Windows 10/8/7

There's also High Precision Event Timer and Simultaneous Multithreading you could mess with.

Some things you may have already tried (I just skimmed through this thread quickly), but I'm just throwing some stuff up in the air here..There's articles/videos on how to optimize AMD Ryzen CPUs, search.

Good luck.



I appreciate the response, but I'm afraid you cannot be correct. This issue exists on multiple operating systems. I have changed every single component, and the consistent things are the CPU, and the PSU.
 
The PSU I tested with a meter, and the rails read correctly.
 
The CPU fails the ryzen-kill script on Windows, and on Linux. It also reduces the stutters when I disable Simultaneous Multithreading, though they still exist. On multiple motherboards, over multiple Operating Systems.
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Exnetic
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Re: The hardest stutter to troubleshoot 2018/09/05 02:58:17 (permalink)
Have you tried a g sync monitor? G sync fixes 100% stuttering and tearing, If you have stuttering after that then sure it is something wrong with something on your comp stuttering may come from cpu aswell if on 100% usage while gaming
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mpw90
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Re: The hardest stutter to troubleshoot 2018/09/05 03:13:21 (permalink)
Exnetic
Have you tried a g sync monitor? G sync fixes 100% stuttering and tearing, If you have stuttering after that then sure it is something wrong with something on your comp stuttering may come from cpu aswell if on 100% usage while gaming



Please read the entire thread, this will get you up to speed. This is not a monitor issue. This is a processing issue. The frametimes are spiking. It is very likely to be a Simultaneous Multithreading issue (on Intel, this would be called Hyperthreading). 
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Exnetic
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Re: The hardest stutter to troubleshoot 2018/09/05 04:08:32 (permalink)
I just did, g sync is like day and night if that is not the problem It is cpu fault
post edited by Exnetic - 2018/09/05 04:10:52
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mpw90
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Re: The hardest stutter to troubleshoot 2018/09/05 04:25:48 (permalink)
It's not a GSync issue. I have a 144hz monitor, and I understand what tearing is. This is a system problem with hardware.
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Exnetic
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Re: The hardest stutter to troubleshoot 2018/09/05 04:42:57 (permalink)
You have 144hz whiteout g sync, I say g sync fixes both stuttering and tearing, I’ve had g sync monitor many years now, First rog swift 144hz then now I have 165hz swift ips, Iknow how stuttering works, Iknow how HT can do to games, I’ve had all from 1 card to 4 sli Iknow well whitout g sync in 4 way sli it was stuttering all the time but g sync fixed it, and don’t play on Linux, Do windows 10 fresh install with all updates
post edited by Exnetic - 2018/09/05 04:47:40
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mpw90
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Re: The hardest stutter to troubleshoot 2018/09/05 04:49:07 (permalink)
Exnetic
You have 144hz whiteout g sync, I say g sync fixes both stuttering and tearing, I’ve had g sync monitor many years now, First rog swift 144hz then now I have 165hz swift ips, Iknow how stuttering works, Iknow how HT can do to games, I’ve had all from 1 card to 4 sli Iknow well whitout g sync in 4 way sli it was stuttering all the time but g sync fixed it,



GSync will increase input lag, and cap my frame rate to 144, in line with the refresh I chose to use, which in turn will increase my frame time. This would make the stutters more pronounced. 
 
My frametime is generally fine. It can fluctuate between 1-8ms when it is not stuttering. 
 
Let's say, for arguments sake, that this is a GSync issue. Why is it enabled by default? Why is it required? Why should I have to pay £350-400 for an equivalent GSync monitor?
 
I do not believe this is the issue. Have you seen the above posts with regards to kill-ryzen?
post edited by mpw90 - 2018/09/05 06:47:40
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mpw90
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Re: The hardest stutter to troubleshoot 2018/09/21 05:50:37 (permalink)
I have replaced my CPU with AMD. I will be testing this further this evening to determine whether or not the stutter still occurs.
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Sajin
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Re: The hardest stutter to troubleshoot 2018/09/21 12:06:07 (permalink)
Ok.


See my current build here: https://forums.evga.com/My-bench-rig-unlimited-power-m3596024.aspx
RTX 2080 Ti 4-way SLI?!?!: https://forums.evga.com/RTX-2080-Ti-4way-SLi-set-by-yours-truly-m2954756.aspx
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Exnetic
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Re: The hardest stutter to troubleshoot 2018/09/21 19:05:28 (permalink)
mpw90
Exnetic
You have 144hz whiteout g sync, I say g sync fixes both stuttering and tearing, I’ve had g sync monitor many years now, First rog swift 144hz then now I have 165hz swift ips, Iknow how stuttering works, Iknow how HT can do to games, I’ve had all from 1 card to 4 sli Iknow well whitout g sync in 4 way sli it was stuttering all the time but g sync fixed it,



GSync will increase input lag, and cap my frame rate to 144, in line with the refresh I chose to use, which in turn will increase my frame time. This would make the stutters more pronounced. 
 
My frametime is generally fine. It can fluctuate between 1-8ms when it is not stuttering. 
 
Let's say, for arguments sake, that this is a GSync issue. Why is it enabled by default? Why is it required? Why should I have to pay £350-400 for an equivalent GSync monitor?
 
I do not believe this is the issue. Have you seen the above posts with regards to kill-ryzen?


Just to correct you, G-sync makes 0 input lag,  even if it did it is far lower than V sync enable it is not noticeable, there is a guy on youtube that have testet it as well   and if you have the option in nvidia control panel, Select in vertical sync to fast in control panel so every time it goes above 144 fps it goes over 144+ fps  No fps lock

I will still if you can get a g sync pannel try it out,  100% cpu usage or Tearing and stuttering is the only thing that can cause it, Easy to see like in msi afterburner or evga precision
post edited by Exnetic - 2018/09/21 19:07:57
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mpw90
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Re: The hardest stutter to troubleshoot 2018/09/22 13:43:25 (permalink)
I've just bought 2 x 144hz monitors without G-Sync. I am not going to throw more money at this to try and solve it when I know full well that this is nothing to do with it.
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mpw90
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Re: The hardest stutter to troubleshoot 2018/09/22 13:45:33 (permalink)
Sajin
Ok.




It is not the CPU, and it is still happening. I may have to look at the GPU again. Maybe Nvidia Boost.
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Sajin
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Re: The hardest stutter to troubleshoot 2018/09/22 14:13:57 (permalink)
Sorry to hear that. I doubt gpu boost has anything to do with this. You can't disable gpu boost either.


See my current build here: https://forums.evga.com/My-bench-rig-unlimited-power-m3596024.aspx
RTX 2080 Ti 4-way SLI?!?!: https://forums.evga.com/RTX-2080-Ti-4way-SLi-set-by-yours-truly-m2954756.aspx
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mpw90
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Re: The hardest stutter to troubleshoot 2018/09/22 18:51:55 (permalink)
Sajin
Sorry to hear that. I doubt gpu boost has anything to do with this. You can't disable gpu boost either.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PY5QyRKK0IM - This is a clip I recorded in game of it happening, but for a very short amount of time. I noticed that, actually, the FPS *do* drop. They drop down to 89 from around 250-300fps. This is when the issues happens.
post edited by mpw90 - 2018/09/23 05:35:10
#55
Sajin
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Re: The hardest stutter to troubleshoot 2018/09/23 12:32:01 (permalink)
Time to try an Intel cpu. 


See my current build here: https://forums.evga.com/My-bench-rig-unlimited-power-m3596024.aspx
RTX 2080 Ti 4-way SLI?!?!: https://forums.evga.com/RTX-2080-Ti-4way-SLi-set-by-yours-truly-m2954756.aspx
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mpw90
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Re: The hardest stutter to troubleshoot 2018/09/23 12:53:34 (permalink)
Sajin
Time to try an Intel cpu. 




Sadly, I've heard such things exist with Intel, too. It may well not be the CPU at all. It's more and more likely something to do with the GPU, surely.
#57
Sajin
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Re: The hardest stutter to troubleshoot 2018/09/23 13:03:09 (permalink)
But you've already replaced the gpu.


See my current build here: https://forums.evga.com/My-bench-rig-unlimited-power-m3596024.aspx
RTX 2080 Ti 4-way SLI?!?!: https://forums.evga.com/RTX-2080-Ti-4way-SLi-set-by-yours-truly-m2954756.aspx
#58
squall-leonhart
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Re: The hardest stutter to troubleshoot 2018/09/23 23:12:23 (permalink)
replacing the asrock mainboard with another vendors is on the tables.

CPU:Intel Xeon x5690 @ 4.2Ghz, Mainboard:Asus Rampage III Extreme, Memory:48GB Corsair Vengeance LP 1600
Video:EVGA Geforce GTX 1080 Founders Edition, NVidia Geforce GTX 1060 Founders Edition
Monitor:BenQ G2400WD, BenQ BL2211, Sound:Creative XFI Titanium Fatal1ty Pro
SDD:Crucial MX300 275, Crucial MX300 525, Crucial MX300 1000
HDD:500GB Spinpoint F3, 1TB WD Black, 2TB WD Red, 1TB WD Black
Case:NZXT Phantom 820, PSU:Seasonic X-850, OS:Windows 7 SP1
Cooler: ThermalRight Silver Arrow IB-E Extreme
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mpw90
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Re: The hardest stutter to troubleshoot 2018/09/24 03:02:05 (permalink)
squall-leonhart
replacing the asrock mainboard with another vendors is on the tables.




I replaced it with a Gigabyte board. It still happened.
#60
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