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KarmNelis
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2022/10/30 21:17:20 (permalink)
In your opinion which one is the best 4090? 
I don't usually play games but when I do I need to see the card maxed out as much as possible. Most of the time maxing out the capability of a card is more fun than the game itself. 
IMO a card output as little as 450W has underwhelming VRM capability. My old Strix 3080 can do 450W all the time while maintaining 75C though 1600T2 was never saturated properly this way. 
All the water-cooled 4090 GPUs seem to have shrunken VRM. They have even less performance compared to the air-cooled Founders Edition which has impressive VRM goes up to 660W. 



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    Sajin
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    Re: The best 4090? 2022/10/31 04:03:04 (permalink)
    Many cards could fit the best category for one reason or another.
     
    Best all around 4090 at the moment probably the asus strix. Best for biggest vrm would be the msi suprim x. Best out of box cooling would most likely go to the Gigabyte AORUS GeForce RTX® 4090 XTREME WATERFORCE.


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    transdogmifier
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    Re: The best 4090? 2022/10/31 04:10:52 (permalink)
    Heck, I can't even find one to buy (outside of a scalper) ...so..I'd say anyone you can lay hands on (Not from a scalper) is 'best' ;)
     

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    rjohnson11
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    Re: The best 4090? 2022/10/31 05:38:18 (permalink)
    transdogmifier
    Heck, I can't even find one to buy (outside of a scalper) ...so..I'd say anyone you can lay hands on (Not from a scalper) is 'best' ;)
     


    Since NVIDIA decided to reduce consumer GPU production stock is limited. This could hurt NVIDIA when the next gen AMD GPUs arrive at the beginning of December. 

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    dragomirc
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    Re: The best 4090? 2022/10/31 05:41:30 (permalink)
    Founders Edition is the one I would suggest.
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    arestavo
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    Re: The best 4090? 2022/10/31 08:17:42 (permalink)
    The one where the new power connector doesn't melt. Kinda hard to tell which are affected atm.
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    donta1979
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    Re: The best 4090? 2022/10/31 08:32:34 (permalink)
    Right now I would suggest the Founders, it actually does not suck for the first time and can keep up with the AIB's in every way.

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    KarmNelis
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    Re: The best 4090? 2022/10/31 09:35:18 (permalink)
    transdogmifier
    Heck, I can't even find one to buy (outside of a scalper) ...so..I'd say anyone you can lay hands on (Not from a scalper) is 'best' ;)
     


    I can still order low-end cards but they all have cheap VRM like Giga Windforce, MSI Trio, Zotac Ario. The premium ones are sold out immediately. 
    It's obvious whoever said the stock has no issue or 4090 is only 20% faster than 3090 is the scalper. 3090Ti is already 40% faster than 3080. 

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    CraptacularOne
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    Re: The best 4090? 2022/10/31 09:59:47 (permalink)
    arestavo
    The one where the new power connector doesn't melt. Kinda hard to tell which are affected atm.


    It has nothing to do with the cards themselves, it seems some of the suppliers of the 4 8pin adapter cables are assembling them differently with solder points and lower rated wires. GN did a deep dive and discovered that his cable is assembled differently than the one that really gained publicity over at Igor's Lab. 
     
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIKjZ1djp8c
     
     
     

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    tsbond
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    Re: The best 4090? 2022/10/31 11:37:51 (permalink)
    The melting from what I have watched and read seems to be a bit blown out of proportion.
     
    All the cards seem to be close in performance from benchmarks, just some seem to cool better and others OC better? Not that we have much choice on which ones to buy at the moment with stock as always.
     
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    arestavo
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    Re: The best 4090? 2022/10/31 13:16:53 (permalink)
    CraptacularOne
    arestavo
    The one where the new power connector doesn't melt. Kinda hard to tell which are affected atm.


    It has nothing to do with the cards themselves, it seems some of the suppliers of the 4 8pin adapter cables are assembling them differently with solder points and lower rated wires. GN did a deep dive and discovered that his cable is assembled differently than the one that really gained publicity over at Igor's Lab. 
     
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIKjZ1djp8c
     

    And they've gotten a TON of emails about melted connectors both 150V and 300V cabling (some updates from Steve's twatter in the megathread) - https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/ydh1mh/16_pins_adapter_megathread/ 
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    STR3T
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    Re: The best 4090? 2022/10/31 13:57:18 (permalink)
    arestavo
    CraptacularOne
    arestavo
    The one where the new power connector doesn't melt. Kinda hard to tell which are affected atm.


    It has nothing to do with the cards themselves, it seems some of the suppliers of the 4 8pin adapter cables are assembling them differently with solder points and lower rated wires. GN did a deep dive and discovered that his cable is assembled differently than the one that really gained publicity over at Igor's Lab. 
     
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIKjZ1djp8c
     

    And they've gotten a TON of emails about melted connectors both 150V and 300V cabling (some updates from Steve's twatter in the megathread) - https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/ydh1mh/16_pins_adapter_megathread/ 



    No confirmed melted adapters on the FE's...hmmm.  GG EVGA.
     
    So I'd say buy an FE (and hope that trend continues) or any of the $1600 models because you're just not getting much for $200-$400+.
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    dragomirc
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    Re: The best 4090? 2022/10/31 14:14:28 (permalink)
    Nvidia 4090 FE seems more solid than AIBs, and its lowest priced.
    #13
    KarmNelis
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    Re: The best 4090? 2022/10/31 14:22:45 (permalink)
    To me the cable is not of much concern. I've melted 1 of the 12V 4x2 pins CPU connector before. The computer shut down during load. It was a simple mistake that the connector wasn't slotted all the way into the socket.
    The metal part of the that Seasonic connector is melted but the plastic part around it wasn't even deformed like all the 4090 connectors that have their plastic melted instead of the metal. Nothing else is damaged.
     

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    kraade
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    Re: The best 4090? 2022/10/31 15:35:32 (permalink)
    I don't think you can go wrong with any of them, they are all so close, I am going to EK water block a SUPRIM X because why not
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    tsbond
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    Re: The best 4090? 2022/10/31 16:18:27 (permalink)
    KarmNelis
    transdogmifier
    Heck, I can't even find one to buy (outside of a scalper) ...so..I'd say anyone you can lay hands on (Not from a scalper) is 'best' ;)
     


    I can still order low-end cards but they all have cheap VRM like Giga Windforce, MSI Trio, Zotac Ario. The premium ones are sold out immediately. 
    It's obvious whoever said the stock has no issue or 4090 is only 20% faster than 3090 is the scalper. 3090Ti is already 40% faster than 3080. 




    So they use a different quality of VRM in each card?
    #16
    Hoggle
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    Re: The best 4090? 2022/10/31 22:58:16 (permalink)
    The FE is probably the one so far I would recommend.

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    KarmNelis
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    Re: The best 4090? 2022/10/31 23:25:34 (permalink)
    tsbond
    KarmNelis
    transdogmifier
    Heck, I can't even find one to buy (outside of a scalper) ...so..I'd say anyone you can lay hands on (Not from a scalper) is 'best' ;)
     


    I can still order low-end cards but they all have cheap VRM like Giga Windforce, MSI Trio, Zotac Ario. The premium ones are sold out immediately. 
    It's obvious whoever said the stock has no issue or 4090 is only 20% faster than 3090 is the scalper. 3090Ti is already 40% faster than 3080. 




    So they use a different quality of VRM in each card?


    It seems to be this way. Different cards are cut corners with different VRM, differently binned RAM, and differently binned processors for different prices. The BIOS can also reveal how confident the card is designed to handle the power.  
    These things probably matter only up to 5% of performance while other 95% entirely depends on the chips or the chip makers. But it is always better to push it so you can feel good your card is 5% faster than others. 

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    kougar
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    Re: The best 4090? 2022/11/01 12:05:14 (permalink)
    KarmNelis
    In your opinion which one is the best 4090? 
    I don't usually play games but when I do I need to see the card maxed out as much as possible. Most of the time maxing out the capability of a card is more fun than the game itself. 
    IMO a card output as little as 450W has underwhelming VRM capability. My old Strix 3080 can do 450W all the time while maintaining 75C though 1600T2 was never saturated properly this way. 
    All the water-cooled 4090 GPUs seem to have shrunken VRM. They have even less performance compared to the air-cooled Founders Edition which has impressive VRM goes up to 660W. 






    I totally understand that. It's fun to have a powerful GPU for use with apps, folding, mining, crunching, diffusing or whatever else these days. 
     
    Yeah, it's weird how the waterblocked cards are 450-520w limited and using cut down VRMs. I haven't seen any standout 4090's yet, it will probably take time for reviewers to get their hands on the better models.
     
    Interestingly Gigabyte is now offering a 4-year warranty with online registration... so that's worth noting. the base card had a decent VRM but it's a plastic shroud. Whereas ASUS had a middling VRM and worse thermal pads, but used an aluminum shroud. I'm going to wait and see if Gigabyte launches a full standalone waterblock model, weirdly they only offer a hybrid version right now. 
    post edited by kougar - 2022/11/01 12:06:34


    Have water, will cool. 
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    tsbond
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    Re: The best 4090? 2022/11/01 13:03:22 (permalink)
    KarmNelis
    tsbond
    KarmNelis
    transdogmifier
    Heck, I can't even find one to buy (outside of a scalper) ...so..I'd say anyone you can lay hands on (Not from a scalper) is 'best' ;)
     


    I can still order low-end cards but they all have cheap VRM like Giga Windforce, MSI Trio, Zotac Ario. The premium ones are sold out immediately. 
    It's obvious whoever said the stock has no issue or 4090 is only 20% faster than 3090 is the scalper. 3090Ti is already 40% faster than 3080. 




    So they use a different quality of VRM in each card?


    It seems to be this way. Different cards are cut corners with different VRM, differently binned RAM, and differently binned processors for different prices. The BIOS can also reveal how confident the card is designed to handle the power.  
    These things probably matter only up to 5% of performance while other 95% entirely depends on the chips or the chip makers. But it is always better to push it so you can feel good your card is 5% faster than others. 




    Ah ok thanks, I was wondering what the changes may be for price differences.
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    CyberbrainPC
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    Re: The best 4090? 2022/11/01 16:46:08 (permalink)
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    kraade
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    Re: The best 4090? 2022/11/01 16:57:26 (permalink)
    tsbond
    KarmNelis
    tsbond
    KarmNelis
    transdogmifier
    Heck, I can't even find one to buy (outside of a scalper) ...so..I'd say anyone you can lay hands on (Not from a scalper) is 'best' ;)
     


    I can still order low-end cards but they all have cheap VRM like Giga Windforce, MSI Trio, Zotac Ario. The premium ones are sold out immediately. 
    It's obvious whoever said the stock has no issue or 4090 is only 20% faster than 3090 is the scalper. 3090Ti is already 40% faster than 3080. 




    So they use a different quality of VRM in each card?


    It seems to be this way. Different cards are cut corners with different VRM, differently binned RAM, and differently binned processors for different prices. The BIOS can also reveal how confident the card is designed to handle the power.  
    These things probably matter only up to 5% of performance while other 95% entirely depends on the chips or the chip makers. But it is always better to push it so you can feel good your card is 5% faster than others. 




    Ah ok thanks, I was wondering what the changes may be for price differences.




    Asus and Gigabyte are 200-400 $ for a 0.5-2 % increase in performance, MSI is half that (For now) , Very few of us actually have any actual experience with this card and the one thing that can be gleaned from reviews is the variation in performance is within run to run variances so might as well get the one that cost less.
    there is no outliers with gimped vrm, that would be stupid and NVIDIA does not allow it, even Zotac an PNY seem to perform about the same, get what makes you happy 
    #22
    KarmNelis
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    Re: The best 4090? 2022/11/01 18:26:20 (permalink)
    kougar
    KarmNelis
    In your opinion which one is the best 4090? 
    I don't usually play games but when I do I need to see the card maxed out as much as possible. Most of the time maxing out the capability of a card is more fun than the game itself. 
    IMO a card output as little as 450W has underwhelming VRM capability. My old Strix 3080 can do 450W all the time while maintaining 75C though 1600T2 was never saturated properly this way. 
    All the water-cooled 4090 GPUs seem to have shrunken VRM. They have even less performance compared to the air-cooled Founders Edition which has impressive VRM goes up to 660W. 






    I totally understand that. It's fun to have a powerful GPU for use with apps, folding, mining, crunching, diffusing or whatever else these days. 
     
    Yeah, it's weird how the waterblocked cards are 450-520w limited and using cut down VRMs. I haven't seen any standout 4090's yet, it will probably take time for reviewers to get their hands on the better models.
     
    Interestingly Gigabyte is now offering a 4-year warranty with online registration... so that's worth noting. the base card had a decent VRM but it's a plastic shroud. Whereas ASUS had a middling VRM and worse thermal pads, but used an aluminum shroud. I'm going to wait and see if Gigabyte launches a full standalone waterblock model, weirdly they only offer a hybrid version right now. 


    Warranty doesn't matter that much. Some of the cheapest card like Zotac with 450W VRM has a 5-year warranty in certain regions. It probably can run for long when underpowered.
    If a card is built top of the line, it won't have issues even without warranty.

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    tsbond
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    Re: The best 4090? 2022/11/01 21:15:04 (permalink)
    kraade
    tsbond
    KarmNelis
    tsbond
    KarmNelis
    transdogmifier
    Heck, I can't even find one to buy (outside of a scalper) ...so..I'd say anyone you can lay hands on (Not from a scalper) is 'best' ;)
     


    I can still order low-end cards but they all have cheap VRM like Giga Windforce, MSI Trio, Zotac Ario. The premium ones are sold out immediately. 
    It's obvious whoever said the stock has no issue or 4090 is only 20% faster than 3090 is the scalper. 3090Ti is already 40% faster than 3080. 




    So they use a different quality of VRM in each card?


    It seems to be this way. Different cards are cut corners with different VRM, differently binned RAM, and differently binned processors for different prices. The BIOS can also reveal how confident the card is designed to handle the power.  
    These things probably matter only up to 5% of performance while other 95% entirely depends on the chips or the chip makers. But it is always better to push it so you can feel good your card is 5% faster than others. 




    Ah ok thanks, I was wondering what the changes may be for price differences.




    Asus and Gigabyte are 200-400 $ for a 0.5-2 % increase in performance, MSI is half that (For now) , Very few of us actually have any actual experience with this card and the one thing that can be gleaned from reviews is the variation in performance is within run to run variances so might as well get the one that cost less.
    there is no outliers with gimped vrm, that would be stupid and NVIDIA does not allow it, even Zotac an PNY seem to perform about the same, get what makes you happy 




    Right on, was just curious about it. ASUS seems to be over priced on everything from MB to cards. But always had good luck with them. Looking towards MSI if stock ever happens again, or when.
    #24
    kraade
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    Re: The best 4090? 2022/11/02 06:58:32 (permalink)
    Ya if you look at the Blocks coming out, the ASUS , Gigabyte, and MSI kits all use the same block on all 3 variations of their 4090, and if you look at the spec sheet , the only difference is the boost clocks set in bios, 2520 base, 2565 gaming OC , 2610 Premium. & 2550, 2595, 2640 with the OC switch, but everyone when reviewed was well above this in real world gaming loads.
    #25
    KarmNelis
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    Re: The best 4090? 2022/11/02 11:06:17 (permalink)
    kraade
    tsbond
    KarmNelis
    tsbond
    KarmNelis
    transdogmifier
    Heck, I can't even find one to buy (outside of a scalper) ...so..I'd say anyone you can lay hands on (Not from a scalper) is 'best' ;)
     


    I can still order low-end cards but they all have cheap VRM like Giga Windforce, MSI Trio, Zotac Ario. The premium ones are sold out immediately. 
    It's obvious whoever said the stock has no issue or 4090 is only 20% faster than 3090 is the scalper. 3090Ti is already 40% faster than 3080. 




    So they use a different quality of VRM in each card?


    It seems to be this way. Different cards are cut corners with different VRM, differently binned RAM, and differently binned processors for different prices. The BIOS can also reveal how confident the card is designed to handle the power.  
    These things probably matter only up to 5% of performance while other 95% entirely depends on the chips or the chip makers. But it is always better to push it so you can feel good your card is 5% faster than others. 




    Ah ok thanks, I was wondering what the changes may be for price differences.




    Asus and Gigabyte are 200-400 $ for a 0.5-2 % increase in performance, MSI is half that (For now) , Very few of us actually have any actual experience with this card and the one thing that can be gleaned from reviews is the variation in performance is within run to run variances so might as well get the one that cost less.
    there is no outliers with gimped vrm, that would be stupid and NVIDIA does not allow it, even Zotac an PNY seem to perform about the same, get what makes you happy 


    Doubt it. These reviewers probably don't play games at all. When a GPU is hit by the power limit. It might just introduce extra latency. It's one of the more reasons to have extra headroom. 
    post edited by KarmNelis - 2022/11/02 11:08:44

    CPU - Intel 8700K - 5.1GHz core, 5.0GHz cache, 1.37v
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    #26
    yaymz
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    Re: The best 4090? 2022/11/02 12:19:55 (permalink)
    kraade
    I don't think you can go wrong with any of them, they are all so close, I am going to EK water block a SUPRIM X because why not


    ^ same here. 
    #27
    kraade
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    Re: The best 4090? 2022/11/02 16:13:09 (permalink)
    yaymz
    kraade
    I don't think you can go wrong with any of them, they are all so close, I am going to EK water block a SUPRIM X because why not


    ^ same here. 


    Preordered the Block , Now we wait until they are back in stock
    #28
    JayVenturi
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    Re: The best 4090? 2022/11/02 17:53:52 (permalink)
    It really depends on your rig, your skills, and how meticulous you are.
    Any choices for the most part will more or less be equal to the others.
     
    For what I did with my rig, it could only be done with the FE series due to an SFF case and trying to shoehorn two gpus in there. However I did consider the MSI water-cooled as an alternative if I had hit a roadblock.
     
    I've owned other versions and found some of the AIB builds to be a little "cheesy" and questionable on the stable vs unstable clocks. I actually did not go through that with the 4090s but did experiment with the 3090 series.
     
    J

    2x 4090 RTX Founders Edition
    2x 8280L (56/112 cores),  Asus c621 Sage Dual socket motherboard
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    (OS Drive) Sabrent Rocket 4 Plus (8TB). 4x Samsung 860 Pro 4TB each (16TB array)
    Asus PA32UCG-K monitor, TT SFF case, MS Data Center 2022 & Ubuntu
    #29
    Yeh Ximin
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    Re: The best 4090? 2022/11/03 05:23:02 (permalink)
    I want to get a rtx4090 MSI SUPRIM X, but there is no stock currently, been waiting for stock since 15th Oct, still nothing. But there plenty of other AIB cards like colorful/ZOTAC etc which I doubt anyone would want them ...


    The rtx4090 Asus Rog Strix is available in my region, near MSRP, should I get it? is it worth it?
     
    #30
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