flyinion
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Re: The best 4090?
2022/11/09 15:47:45
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KarmNelis
But Giga Waterforce might have the worst performance among the premium cards. It's only a 500W card. The VRM is probably the worst too.
Yeah I'm trying to hold out for a FE card, or maybe a Zotac if they're any good. Otherwise Asus TUF or Strix. Whatever I get is getting a block so I have to keep in mind which cards have blocks available now which is mostly the FE and Asus stuff.
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Kevin115
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Re: The best 4090?
2022/11/09 18:57:18
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KarmNelis
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Re: The best 4090?
2022/11/12 15:37:15
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flyinion
KarmNelis
But Giga Waterforce might have the worst performance among the premium cards. It's only a 500W card. The VRM is probably the worst too.
Yeah I'm trying to hold out for a FE card, or maybe a Zotac if they're any good. Otherwise Asus TUF or Strix. Whatever I get is getting a block so I have to keep in mind which cards have blocks available now which is mostly the FE and Asus stuff.
Pretty sure Giga Waterforce is made the cheapest overall. No 600W BIOS from Giga. No benchmark hits. Nothing from that GPU. Strix is solid even with all the bugs and inferior memories. But it is harder to get than a FE.
CPU - Intel 8700K - 5.1GHz core, 5.0GHz cache, 1.37v GPU - EVGA FTW3 1080Ti SLI - 2.0GHz core, 12GHz memory Motherboard - Asus Maximus X Hero Memory - Corsair Dominator 4x16GB - 3000MHz default XMP 15-17-17-35PSU - EVGA 1600T2Fire Strike 36838 Extreme 25250 Ultra 14464
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KarmNelis
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Re: The best 4090?
2022/11/12 16:33:34
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They've over predicated the heat generation of the new chips made from TSMC while Samsung's manufacturing process had hot chips all the time.
CPU - Intel 8700K - 5.1GHz core, 5.0GHz cache, 1.37v GPU - EVGA FTW3 1080Ti SLI - 2.0GHz core, 12GHz memory Motherboard - Asus Maximus X Hero Memory - Corsair Dominator 4x16GB - 3000MHz default XMP 15-17-17-35PSU - EVGA 1600T2Fire Strike 36838 Extreme 25250 Ultra 14464
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KarmNelis
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Re: The best 4090?
2022/11/12 16:42:24
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The only one that knows the efficiency is Nvidia. So the FE is built right for the heat. But FE is not a superior product or in any way a mass production. These board manufacturers still manage with little information they got from Nvidia. The only loser is EVGA.
post edited by KarmNelis - 2022/11/12 16:45:12
CPU - Intel 8700K - 5.1GHz core, 5.0GHz cache, 1.37v GPU - EVGA FTW3 1080Ti SLI - 2.0GHz core, 12GHz memory Motherboard - Asus Maximus X Hero Memory - Corsair Dominator 4x16GB - 3000MHz default XMP 15-17-17-35PSU - EVGA 1600T2Fire Strike 36838 Extreme 25250 Ultra 14464
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KarmNelis
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Re: The best 4090?
2022/11/16 20:45:44
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The BIOS of Strix is well designed too. It has the highest score. But a card with 1xHDMI and 3XDP will lose 1 DP after BIOS flashing since the Strix BIOS is made for 2xHDMI and 3xDP. Overall, 4090 is definitely not enough for the actual 4K games. The new games like Ghostbuster sits around 70fps average.
post edited by KarmNelis - 2022/11/17 03:56:10
CPU - Intel 8700K - 5.1GHz core, 5.0GHz cache, 1.37v GPU - EVGA FTW3 1080Ti SLI - 2.0GHz core, 12GHz memory Motherboard - Asus Maximus X Hero Memory - Corsair Dominator 4x16GB - 3000MHz default XMP 15-17-17-35PSU - EVGA 1600T2Fire Strike 36838 Extreme 25250 Ultra 14464
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spit051261
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Re: The best 4090?
2022/11/17 00:16:41
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Zotac Extreme is a very good card . Easy to flash various 600 watt BIOS to but .... You might have trouble getting it to work on a Dark Kingpin Z690. It will work fine on a Tachyon and maybe lots of other cards . I just returned my one and that was a shame because it was such a good card but I fancy Dark Z790 so what can you do ? Had some good scores with it. It is also one of the "cheaper" cards if these things can, indeed be called "cheap" 
post edited by spit051261 - 2022/11/17 00:17:51
Gaming Rig - Lian Li Dynamic XL, MSI Z490 Godlike, i9 10900k (SP 88) delidded with Rockit IHS, G-Skill 4266 RAM 2X8 , MSI Z Trio 2080ti, Aorus RGB 360 AIO, EVO 2Tb 970 Plus Nvme,1600watt P2, Acer Predator X27 Monitor, K95 Platinum, G502,G560, ST100 RGB, Void RGB Elite.OC Rig - Lian Li T70, Apex XII , i9 10900k (SP 93) delidded with direct die cooling, G-Skill 4000 2X8 Cl15-16-16 RAM , Evga KPE 2080ti, 2 x 1 Tb Evo 970 Plus Nvme, Evga 1600watt P2, EXC 800 Chiller.
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KarmNelis
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Re: The best 4090?
2022/11/17 04:11:36
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There are BIOS updates for most brands to have their 4090 display UEFI. Nvidia released the universal update tool as well.
CPU - Intel 8700K - 5.1GHz core, 5.0GHz cache, 1.37v GPU - EVGA FTW3 1080Ti SLI - 2.0GHz core, 12GHz memory Motherboard - Asus Maximus X Hero Memory - Corsair Dominator 4x16GB - 3000MHz default XMP 15-17-17-35PSU - EVGA 1600T2Fire Strike 36838 Extreme 25250 Ultra 14464
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KarmNelis
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Re: The best 4090?
2022/11/17 15:52:09
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I figured out why all the AIO cut down the power limit. The issue is simply the heat and cost. The incomplete/incompetent AIO of 4090 cannot keep all the critical components cooled like the air 4090 does. Only a properly designed full waterblock can cool them better. Unlike EVGA, which has established a general rule to keep all the critical components below 60C after several fire incidents since 1080Ti SC2, some other company like Gigabyte simply don't obey the rule. The result is the ironical 100+C junction memory temperature on Gigabyte Extreme Water 4090 waiting for the components to blow up while jetting up max fan speed all the time.  This version of the AIO card from Gigabyte is doomed. MSI at least has a separate heatsink plus a fan to cool down the components. ASUS knew this all along. That is why ASUS didn't even bother to release an AIO card as the air cooled card is superior this time.
CPU - Intel 8700K - 5.1GHz core, 5.0GHz cache, 1.37v GPU - EVGA FTW3 1080Ti SLI - 2.0GHz core, 12GHz memory Motherboard - Asus Maximus X Hero Memory - Corsair Dominator 4x16GB - 3000MHz default XMP 15-17-17-35PSU - EVGA 1600T2Fire Strike 36838 Extreme 25250 Ultra 14464
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TrekCZ
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Re: The best 4090?
2022/11/18 02:09:12
(permalink)
This is insane, those memory chips will pop. I have been recently watching some repair videos on youtube and they recommend much lower temps. On my air coolerd 4090 I have max 80C on those mems.
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Sajin
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Re: The best 4090?
2022/11/18 02:44:35
(permalink)
KarmNelis
I figured out why all the AIO cut down the power limit. The issue is simply the heat and cost.
The incomplete/incompetent AIO of 4090 cannot keep all the critical components cooled like the air 4090 does. Only a properly designed full waterblock can cool them better.
Unlike EVGA, which has established a general rule to keep all the critical components below 60C after several fire incidents since 1080Ti SC2, some other company like Gigabyte simply don't obey the rule.
The result is the ironical 100+C junction memory temperature on Gigabyte Extreme Water 4090 waiting for the components to blow up while jetting up max fan speed all the time.
This version of the AIO card from Gigabyte is doomed.
MSI at least has a separate heatsink plus a fan to cool down the components.
ASUS knew this all along. That is why ASUS didn't even bother to release an AIO card as the air cooled card is superior this time.
I heard from a reliable source that the memory junction temps are junk data, so they mean nothing, and can't be relied on. An NVIDIA engineer mentioned on the NVIDIA forums that the function of this is to monitor temps of HBM2 memory, which 30/40 Series obviously doesn't have:
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TrekCZ
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Re: The best 4090?
2022/11/18 03:55:00
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They wrote in that Nvidia forum about other value (not gpu junction temp) which is used for HBM and it is not output for other models (value is -). What you see in hwinfo is mem junction temp and it is correct value. And 106C value for those memory modules is deadly.
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Sajin
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Re: The best 4090?
2022/11/18 04:58:00
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TrekCZ
They wrote in that Nvidia forum about other value (not gpu junction temp) which is used for HBM and it is not output for other models (value is -). What you see in hwinfo is mem junction temp and it is correct value. And 106C value for those memory modules is deadly.
Relying on an undocumented nvapi method for reliable temp info is reckless at best. If it was reliable I'm sure nvidia would have documented it properly, but it isn't listed in the nvapi list for a reason.
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KarmNelis
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Re: The best 4090?
2022/11/18 05:30:13
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The board manufactures seem to rely on it for a reason or the fans wouldn't go berserk. It is an indication.
CPU - Intel 8700K - 5.1GHz core, 5.0GHz cache, 1.37v GPU - EVGA FTW3 1080Ti SLI - 2.0GHz core, 12GHz memory Motherboard - Asus Maximus X Hero Memory - Corsair Dominator 4x16GB - 3000MHz default XMP 15-17-17-35PSU - EVGA 1600T2Fire Strike 36838 Extreme 25250 Ultra 14464
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TrekCZ
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Re: The best 4090?
2022/11/18 07:30:40
(permalink)
Sajin
Relying on an undocumented nvapi method for reliable temp info is reckless at best.
I do not understand what you are writing here about, there is NVAPI_THERMAL_TARGET_MEMORY in NVAPI. I think you are confusing this thing with something else. The API either returns some value or flag that it is not supported. What you see in HWINFO is correct gpu memory temp and everyone is using it, and it is relevant and looks correct, no issues. This thing just works, if not there would be empty value e.g. in HWINFO (if not supported by hardware).
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Sajin
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Re: The best 4090?
2022/11/18 13:40:44
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KarmNelis
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Re: The best 4090?
2022/11/18 13:50:34
(permalink)
Sajin
TrekCZ
Sajin
Relying on an undocumented nvapi method for reliable temp info is reckless at best.
I do not understand what you are writing here about, there is NVAPI_THERMAL_TARGET_MEMORY in NVAPI. I think you are confusing this thing with something else. The API either returns some value or flag that it is not supported. What you see in HWINFO is correct gpu memory temp and everyone is using it, and it is relevant and looks correct, no issues. This thing just works, if not there would be empty value e.g. in HWINFO (if not supported by hardware).
NVAPI_THERMAL_TARGET_MEMORY doesn't return vram juntion temp... https://github.com/SveSop/nvapi_standalone/issues/5
So back to... https://forums.developer.nvidia.com/t/request-gpu-memory-junction-temperature-via-nvidia-smi-or-nvml-api/168346/216
Care to to explain why all the AIO has the high temps on Junction Memory while the air cooled doesn't?
CPU - Intel 8700K - 5.1GHz core, 5.0GHz cache, 1.37v GPU - EVGA FTW3 1080Ti SLI - 2.0GHz core, 12GHz memory Motherboard - Asus Maximus X Hero Memory - Corsair Dominator 4x16GB - 3000MHz default XMP 15-17-17-35PSU - EVGA 1600T2Fire Strike 36838 Extreme 25250 Ultra 14464
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Sajin
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Re: The best 4090?
2022/11/18 13:52:11
(permalink)
KarmNelis
Sajin
TrekCZ
Sajin
Relying on an undocumented nvapi method for reliable temp info is reckless at best.
I do not understand what you are writing here about, there is NVAPI_THERMAL_TARGET_MEMORY in NVAPI. I think you are confusing this thing with something else. The API either returns some value or flag that it is not supported. What you see in HWINFO is correct gpu memory temp and everyone is using it, and it is relevant and looks correct, no issues. This thing just works, if not there would be empty value e.g. in HWINFO (if not supported by hardware).
NVAPI_THERMAL_TARGET_MEMORY doesn't return vram juntion temp... https://github.com/SveSop/nvapi_standalone/issues/5
So back to... https://forums.developer.nvidia.com/t/request-gpu-memory-junction-temperature-via-nvidia-smi-or-nvml-api/168346/216
Care to to explain why all the AIO has the high temps on Junction Memory while the air cooled doesn't?
Nope, except for that data is junk.
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TrekCZ
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Re: The best 4090?
2022/11/18 14:10:53
(permalink)
Sajin
Nope, except for that data is junk.
Dude, just stop. What is in hwinfo is correct, it might use other library than nvapi or other calls to obtain the data. In the ticket you provided some that guy wrote that call returned result that reading is not supported. But api does not return junk, it returns various values, one of them is that temp is not supported. But hwinfo might use other techniques. You can see it that in hwinfo value is correct.
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KarmNelis
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Re: The best 4090?
2022/11/18 14:17:11
(permalink)
Sajin
KarmNelis
Sajin
TrekCZ
Sajin
Relying on an undocumented nvapi method for reliable temp info is reckless at best.
I do not understand what you are writing here about, there is NVAPI_THERMAL_TARGET_MEMORY in NVAPI. I think you are confusing this thing with something else. The API either returns some value or flag that it is not supported. What you see in HWINFO is correct gpu memory temp and everyone is using it, and it is relevant and looks correct, no issues. This thing just works, if not there would be empty value e.g. in HWINFO (if not supported by hardware).
NVAPI_THERMAL_TARGET_MEMORY doesn't return vram juntion temp... https://github.com/SveSop/nvapi_standalone/issues/5
So back to... https://forums.developer.nvidia.com/t/request-gpu-memory-junction-temperature-via-nvidia-smi-or-nvml-api/168346/216
Care to to explain why all the AIO has the high temps on Junction Memory while the air cooled doesn't?
Nope, except for that data is junk.
Care to let the the memory open and check out how the Junction Temperature goes?
CPU - Intel 8700K - 5.1GHz core, 5.0GHz cache, 1.37v GPU - EVGA FTW3 1080Ti SLI - 2.0GHz core, 12GHz memory Motherboard - Asus Maximus X Hero Memory - Corsair Dominator 4x16GB - 3000MHz default XMP 15-17-17-35PSU - EVGA 1600T2Fire Strike 36838 Extreme 25250 Ultra 14464
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Sajin
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Re: The best 4090?
2022/11/18 14:19:35
(permalink)
KarmNelis
Sajin
KarmNelis
Sajin
TrekCZ
Sajin
Relying on an undocumented nvapi method for reliable temp info is reckless at best.
I do not understand what you are writing here about, there is NVAPI_THERMAL_TARGET_MEMORY in NVAPI. I think you are confusing this thing with something else. The API either returns some value or flag that it is not supported. What you see in HWINFO is correct gpu memory temp and everyone is using it, and it is relevant and looks correct, no issues. This thing just works, if not there would be empty value e.g. in HWINFO (if not supported by hardware).
NVAPI_THERMAL_TARGET_MEMORY doesn't return vram juntion temp... https://github.com/SveSop/nvapi_standalone/issues/5
So back to... https://forums.developer.nvidia.com/t/request-gpu-memory-junction-temperature-via-nvidia-smi-or-nvml-api/168346/216
Care to to explain why all the AIO has the high temps on Junction Memory while the air cooled doesn't?
Nope, except for that data is junk.
Care to let the the memory open and check out how the Junction Temperature goes?
Not something I will be doing.
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KarmNelis
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Re: The best 4090?
2022/11/18 14:22:42
(permalink)
Sajin
KarmNelis
Sajin
KarmNelis
Sajin
TrekCZ
Sajin
Relying on an undocumented nvapi method for reliable temp info is reckless at best.
I do not understand what you are writing here about, there is NVAPI_THERMAL_TARGET_MEMORY in NVAPI. I think you are confusing this thing with something else. The API either returns some value or flag that it is not supported. What you see in HWINFO is correct gpu memory temp and everyone is using it, and it is relevant and looks correct, no issues. This thing just works, if not there would be empty value e.g. in HWINFO (if not supported by hardware).
NVAPI_THERMAL_TARGET_MEMORY doesn't return vram juntion temp... https://github.com/SveSop/nvapi_standalone/issues/5
So back to... https://forums.developer.nvidia.com/t/request-gpu-memory-junction-temperature-via-nvidia-smi-or-nvml-api/168346/216
Care to to explain why all the AIO has the high temps on Junction Memory while the air cooled doesn't?
Nope, except for that data is junk.
Care to let the the memory open and check out how the Junction Temperature goes?
Not something I will be doing.
No explanation. No doing anything. Your statement is basically automatically false. Just let you know berserk fans only resounds to either the core temperature or the memory temperature
CPU - Intel 8700K - 5.1GHz core, 5.0GHz cache, 1.37v GPU - EVGA FTW3 1080Ti SLI - 2.0GHz core, 12GHz memory Motherboard - Asus Maximus X Hero Memory - Corsair Dominator 4x16GB - 3000MHz default XMP 15-17-17-35PSU - EVGA 1600T2Fire Strike 36838 Extreme 25250 Ultra 14464
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Sajin
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Re: The best 4090?
2022/11/18 14:25:35
(permalink)
KarmNelis
Sajin
KarmNelis
Sajin
KarmNelis
Sajin
TrekCZ
Sajin
Relying on an undocumented nvapi method for reliable temp info is reckless at best.
I do not understand what you are writing here about, there is NVAPI_THERMAL_TARGET_MEMORY in NVAPI. I think you are confusing this thing with something else. The API either returns some value or flag that it is not supported. What you see in HWINFO is correct gpu memory temp and everyone is using it, and it is relevant and looks correct, no issues. This thing just works, if not there would be empty value e.g. in HWINFO (if not supported by hardware).
NVAPI_THERMAL_TARGET_MEMORY doesn't return vram juntion temp... https://github.com/SveSop/nvapi_standalone/issues/5
So back to... https://forums.developer.nvidia.com/t/request-gpu-memory-junction-temperature-via-nvidia-smi-or-nvml-api/168346/216
Care to to explain why all the AIO has the high temps on Junction Memory while the air cooled doesn't?
Nope, except for that data is junk.
Care to let the the memory open and check out how the Junction Temperature goes?
Not something I will be doing.
No explanation. No doing anything. Your statement is basically automatically false.
Just let you know berserk fans only resounds to either the core temperature or the memory temperature
According to nvidia engineers what I have said is true, so believe what you want. Have a great day.
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KarmNelis
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Re: The best 4090?
2022/11/18 14:29:56
(permalink)
Sajin
KarmNelis
Sajin
KarmNelis
Sajin
KarmNelis
Sajin
TrekCZ
Sajin
Relying on an undocumented nvapi method for reliable temp info is reckless at best.
I do not understand what you are writing here about, there is NVAPI_THERMAL_TARGET_MEMORY in NVAPI. I think you are confusing this thing with something else. The API either returns some value or flag that it is not supported. What you see in HWINFO is correct gpu memory temp and everyone is using it, and it is relevant and looks correct, no issues. This thing just works, if not there would be empty value e.g. in HWINFO (if not supported by hardware).
NVAPI_THERMAL_TARGET_MEMORY doesn't return vram juntion temp... https://github.com/SveSop/nvapi_standalone/issues/5
So back to... https://forums.developer.nvidia.com/t/request-gpu-memory-junction-temperature-via-nvidia-smi-or-nvml-api/168346/216
Care to to explain why all the AIO has the high temps on Junction Memory while the air cooled doesn't?
Nope, except for that data is junk.
Care to let the the memory open and check out how the Junction Temperature goes?
Not something I will be doing.
No explanation. No doing anything. Your statement is basically automatically false.
Just let you know berserk fans only resounds to either the core temperature or the memory temperature
According to nvidia engineers what I have said is true, so believe what you want. Have a great day.
Of course nobody believes it based on some "support engineers" from Nvidia, which are equivalent to guys at a Microsoft computer center who that doesn't make any engineering stack or the card.
CPU - Intel 8700K - 5.1GHz core, 5.0GHz cache, 1.37v GPU - EVGA FTW3 1080Ti SLI - 2.0GHz core, 12GHz memory Motherboard - Asus Maximus X Hero Memory - Corsair Dominator 4x16GB - 3000MHz default XMP 15-17-17-35PSU - EVGA 1600T2Fire Strike 36838 Extreme 25250 Ultra 14464
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dragomirc
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Re: The best 4090?
2022/11/18 14:40:02
(permalink)
KarmNelis
Of course nobody believes it based on some "support engineers" from Nvidia, which are equivalent to guys at a Microsoft computer center who that doesn't make any engineering stack or the card.
Sure, we believe people that work/represent the most powerful company in this domain, rather than anonymous people like you.
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KarmNelis
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Re: The best 4090?
2022/11/18 15:14:02
(permalink)
dragomirc
KarmNelis
Of course nobody believes it based on some "support engineers" from Nvidia, which are equivalent to guys at a Microsoft computer center who that doesn't make any engineering stack or the card.
Sure, we believe people that work/represent the most powerful company in this domain, rather than anonymous people like you.
You talk nothing like you work for them. You know how much they get paid on a support forum? You don't need a belief.
CPU - Intel 8700K - 5.1GHz core, 5.0GHz cache, 1.37v GPU - EVGA FTW3 1080Ti SLI - 2.0GHz core, 12GHz memory Motherboard - Asus Maximus X Hero Memory - Corsair Dominator 4x16GB - 3000MHz default XMP 15-17-17-35PSU - EVGA 1600T2Fire Strike 36838 Extreme 25250 Ultra 14464
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KarmNelis
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Re: The best 4090?
2022/11/18 15:18:09
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The real junk here is the Gigabyte incompetent AIO copper plate with limited thermal capacity. The memory temperature rises like hell if you put a plate like that in any 4090.
CPU - Intel 8700K - 5.1GHz core, 5.0GHz cache, 1.37v GPU - EVGA FTW3 1080Ti SLI - 2.0GHz core, 12GHz memory Motherboard - Asus Maximus X Hero Memory - Corsair Dominator 4x16GB - 3000MHz default XMP 15-17-17-35PSU - EVGA 1600T2Fire Strike 36838 Extreme 25250 Ultra 14464
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Sajin
EVGA Forum Moderator
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Re: The best 4090?
2022/11/18 15:40:34
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KarmNelis
The real junk here is the Gigabyte incompetent AIO copper plate with limited thermal capacity. The memory temperature rises like hell if you put a plate like that in any 4090.
Yeah, gigabyte did that on purpose, so users could complain. 🤣
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KarmNelis
Superclocked Member
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Re: The best 4090?
2022/11/18 15:43:14
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Sajin
KarmNelis
The real junk here is the Gigabyte incompetent AIO copper plate with limited thermal capacity. The memory temperature rises like hell if you put a plate like that in any 4090.
Yeah, gigabyte did that on purpose, so users could complain. 🤣
What is the best 4090 under greed?
CPU - Intel 8700K - 5.1GHz core, 5.0GHz cache, 1.37v GPU - EVGA FTW3 1080Ti SLI - 2.0GHz core, 12GHz memory Motherboard - Asus Maximus X Hero Memory - Corsair Dominator 4x16GB - 3000MHz default XMP 15-17-17-35PSU - EVGA 1600T2Fire Strike 36838 Extreme 25250 Ultra 14464
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Sajin
EVGA Forum Moderator
- Total Posts : 49165
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- Joined: 2010/06/07 21:11:51
- Location: Texas, USA.
- Status: online
- Ribbons : 199
Re: The best 4090?
2022/11/18 15:52:09
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KarmNelis
Sajin
KarmNelis
The real junk here is the Gigabyte incompetent AIO copper plate with limited thermal capacity. The memory temperature rises like hell if you put a plate like that in any 4090.
Yeah, gigabyte did that on purpose, so users could complain. 🤣
What is the best 4090 under greed?
Galax 4090 HOF of course.
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