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BCohen1983
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Re: So the 3090 is essentially a generational performance leap over the 3080 2020/09/19 16:52:28 (permalink)
I'm waiting to see what the FTW3 Hybrid turns out to be. Factory water cooled with a 240mm rad and higher power limit sounds good to me.
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kevinc313
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Re: So the 3090 is essentially a generational performance leap over the 3080 2020/09/19 16:53:31 (permalink)
ehabash1
So the Asus Strix
They are 3x8 pin but im reading it’s only 400 watts power draw. Is that official or is it actually 440 watt

As much as i want the FTW3,
I dont want to wait an eternity for a water block and Evga is not giving enough info regarding the hydrocopper

Ek will have Strix blocks out in October



It seems like most AIB's are being very shy about their power limits.  If history is an indicator, EVGA and Galax will have the highest power.  525w is the nominal limit of 3x8-pin, 75+150+150+150.  The Kingpin 2080 Ti had a 520w limit, so I would expect it to be the same this time.
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Re: So the 3090 is essentially a generational performance leap over the 3080 2020/09/19 22:09:59 (permalink)
BCohen1983
I'm waiting to see what the FTW3 Hybrid turns out to be. Factory water cooled with a 240mm rad and higher power limit sounds good to me.



Those puppies under water will surely be happy, that's for sure.

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paulmcpazzi
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Re: So the 3090 is essentially a generational performance leap over the 3080 2020/09/21 03:41:14 (permalink)
Given how fast the 3080 is, I hardly doubt that we going to see a lot of games in next two years where that 20% performance matters.
20% perf for 105% the price is not a great deal, unless you really need those 24 GB of VRAM for training neural networks, 3D graphics, etc.
From a gaming perspective I think it's more reasonable to buy a 3080, wait 2 years, and then replace it with a 4080.
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bavor
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Re: So the 3090 is essentially a generational performance leap over the 3080 2020/09/21 05:58:23 (permalink)
gravedigger78
In the past didn't the larger chips always overclock worse?



Both of my GTX 1080 ti's reached higher overclocks than 3 of the 4 GTX 1070's I've owned.  The founder's edition GTX 1070 tied the 1080t i's at 2101 MHz.  All the the EVGA GTX 1070's I owned weren't 2101 MHz stable in all benchmarks and games.  Its only a sample size of 6 cards, but its not always the case that smaller GPUs overclock better.  Its still luck of the "silicon lottery" for many cards.
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turboD
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Re: So the 3090 is essentially a generational performance leap over the 3080 2020/09/21 06:53:29 (permalink)
I am surprised not a single person pointed out that those high numbers of the 3090 that were shown on some of the first page links is with a hard modded shunt mod for the 3090 and max overclock.
 
The 3090 is about  ~10% faster than the 3080 without any hard mods. There is no generational leap here. Wait until you see the official reviews.
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kevinc313
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Re: So the 3090 is essentially a generational performance leap over the 3080 2020/09/21 07:06:40 (permalink)
turboD
I am surprised not a single person pointed out that those high numbers of the 3090 that were shown on some of the first page links is with a hard modded shunt mod for the 3090 and max overclock.
 
The 3090 is about  ~10% faster than the 3080 without any hard mods. There is no generational leap here. Wait until you see the official reviews.




Only about +30% better than the 2080 Ti or Titan RTX, adjusted for TDP.  What the heck?  Ampere is a flop, aside from the firesale MSRP of the 3080.
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gravedigger78
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Re: So the 3090 is essentially a generational performance leap over the 3080 2020/09/21 07:39:06 (permalink)
turboD
I am surprised not a single person pointed out that those high numbers of the 3090 that were shown on some of the first page links is with a hard modded shunt mod for the 3090 and max overclock.
 
The 3090 is about  ~10% faster than the 3080 without any hard mods. There is no generational leap here. Wait until you see the official reviews.


Well I guess that makes me feel better for only being able to afford the 3080 this go around
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vulcan1978
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Re: So the 3090 is essentially a generational performance leap over the 3080 2020/09/22 09:16:50 (permalink)
kevinc313
turboD
I am surprised not a single person pointed out that those high numbers of the 3090 that were shown on some of the first page links is with a hard modded shunt mod for the 3090 and max overclock.
 
The 3090 is about  ~10% faster than the 3080 without any hard mods. There is no generational leap here. Wait until you see the official reviews.




Only about +30% better than the 2080 Ti or Titan RTX, adjusted for TDP.  What the heck?  Ampere is a flop, aside from the firesale MSRP of the 3080.


 
+1


 
And EVGA is price-gouging with the 3090 FTW3 simply because they anticipate demand for it. 
 
For example, 3080 FTW3 = $789. = +$89
 
3090 FTW3, same PCB, same features, same iCX3 sensors, dual bios fuse and cooler = $1750 and $1800 = +$250 and +$300
 
Then, when you acknowledge the fact that the FE cooler on just the 3080, to say nothing of the bigger 3090 cooler, was valued at $155 by Igor's Lab. I highly doubt the FTW3 cooler costs $155 to make, it probably costs between $50 and 75 to make. 
 
Let's just say $55 for the sake of the argument. 
 
Ok add that $100 to the difference making the 3090 FTW3 $350 and $400 more expensive than FE. 
 
Is this a binned chip, a Kingpin card? 
 
No. 
 
It's FTW3. 
 
They have lost their minds, both NV and EVGA. 
 
This is the very definition of hubris. 
 
They also not only are doing nothing about the Bounce Alert bots but they actually encouraged it by not allowing us to pre-order or queue up for a purchase (this isn't rocket science, it CAN be done). 
 
1.Buying a 3080 on ebay absolves both NV and AIB partners from warranty responsibility. 
2.When a bot buys 40 3080 XC3's in a row from EVGA they aren't using any 5% associate code. 
3.Product scarcity drives up hysteria and demand, generates press noise, which further drives up hysteria and demand "I HAVE TO HAVE IT, I WILL PAY ANYTHING". 
 
In reality the 3080 is ~10% faster than 2080 Ti at 1440p at the same power draw! 
 
Here's my Timespy GPU of 16,750. Compare that to 17,500, it's not even 10%! Same power draw! Same thing in games! 
 
NV either handsomely rewards or has acquired ownership of Digital Foundry who pumps out these carefully curated "benchmarks" showing the 3080 some 90% faster than the 2080 and 65% than 2080 Ti when in actuality it's only 20% faster at 1440p and 30% faster at 4K at a higher power draw! What a joke! 
 
They think we don't know that AMD is releasing a large die Navi GPU in November that will sit in between the 3080 and 3090 @ less than 300w on TSMC's 7nm node, which is head and shoulders above this 8nm EUV mediocrity, and it will have either 16 or 24GB of video memory for $1000. We also need to remember that both next-gen consoles are the same architecture, RDNA 2, and they both will have path tracing, AI super-sampling and their equivalent of RTX IO (AMD invented this tech first actually, both next gen consoles were showing it off and then boom, it's added to Ampere by Nvidia). Take an console port running on Unreal engine optimized for RDNA 2, the engine will accomplish RDNA 2 based path tracing and AI super sampling NATIVELY and therefore more efficiently (6900xt may be slower than 3090 on paper but may run console ports way faster). Nvidia can either try to emulate AMD's path tracing and AI super-sampling in pursuit of efficiency or they can try to run it on top of the engine, either way, it's axiomatic that if a game developer develops a game for either one of the consoles it will be highly optimized to make full use of the underlying architecture, RDNA 2. 
 
NGreedia is actually in deep kaka. Don't let the fancy cooler and market hysteria fool you. 
 
Think about it. 
 
There will be a $1000 card that will be faster than the 3080 at less than 300w with 16 or 24GB of video memory that will run console ports better. This may seem trivial. 90% of the games on PC are console ports or simultaneous release. Developers make more money selling games on consoles and therefore they are developed on console first and then they develop them for PC even for simultaneous release. 
 
This is why NGreedia acquired ARM. They need to diversify their manufacturing capability because their gaming division may be in trouble. 
 
I'm upset because, coming from 1080 Ti, the $1200 2080 Ti was the only upgrade path, a path I somewhat foolishly took about 6 months ago with a gently used XC2 for $900 local sale (no tax, no shipping). I mean I love this card and it's easily 50% faster in Timespy GPU and nearly all of my demanding titles (10,600 vs 16,700 Timespy GPU, both cards under water block and overclocked to 2000 and 2100 MHz respectively). This was around $1050 with the water block for a solid 50% gain, and I can use DLSS and RT. 
 
Now the proposition is $1800 before taxes, another $230 for a decent water block and back-plate, or around $2300 altogether including shipping, for a 25% bump at 1440p (45% if it's a DLSS title), 35% bump at 4K (55% if it's a DLSS title)? 
 
16,750 vs 20,500 Timespy GPU, a 23% gain? 
 
I've already done the analysis comparing vmanuelgm's shunted 3090 @ 550w over in the 3090 Owners Club thread in overclock.net. 
 
At 3840x2160, in the Metro Exodus bench, the shunted 3090 is 45% faster without DLSS on both cards and 67% faster with DLSS on both cards. 
 
But we need to normalize for the same TDP, that additional 160w is only good for a 10% overclock with the 3090 because it's already at the edge of it's power-efficiency threshold! At 390w it's 10% slower, so we deduct 10% from the 45% at 4K with no DLSS and another from the with DLSS. 
 
So the 3090 is 35% faster than 2080 Ti at the same power draw (2080 Ti @ 373w, 3090 @ 390w) and 55% faster with DLSS enabled on both cards. 
 
But I'm not at 4K! And the 3080 (320w) is 20% faster at 1440p against 2080 Ti (260w) and 30% faster at 4K (only 10% and 20% faster when you run 2080 Ti at the same power draw). 
 
So we deduct another 10% because the 3090 is 10% faster at 4K than at 1440p vs 2080 Ti at same power draw. 
 
So a whopping 25% faster at 1440p without DLSS and 45% faster with DLSS for $2300!
 
What kind of value proposition is this? 
 
This is a Ray Tracing title with DLSS in comparison! 
 
90% of the games in my library don't have either! Any future game with DLSS, sure, it will be a 45% gain at 1440p. Worse, all of the VR titles in my library don't have DLSS so the gain there is the non DLSS gain of 45% (HP Reverb G2, 2160x2160x2)!
 
The question is, how many new titles will have DLSS support? 
 
Either way 45% isn't enough for $2300!
 
For $2300 I'm going to need a card that is as fast as 2080 Ti SLI without any scaling loss or 200% faster! 
 
Ampere is a indeed a joke. 
 
The big joke is how fast TSMC 7nm is. 
 
The APU in the XBOX Series X is as fast as an AMD 3700x and RTX 2080 combined at only 170w. 
 
Let than sink in for a moment. 10.5 TFLOPS. 
 
AMD will have a 300w card dropping on November. 
 
And guess what? EVGA doesn't make AMD cards. 
 
So their price gouging strategy of marking up the FTW3 $400 over the FE? 
 
Not a winning strategy with at least this informed consumer. 
 
Not only am I NOT buying this overpriced mediocrity but I am also encouraging others considering it to wait for November. 
 
All Empires fall. This is what a monopoly looks like, it started with the $1200 80 Ti card of last generation, now the rebadged 80 Ti is $1500-1800 an offers half the performance gain (25% vs 50% at 1440p without DLSS) 
 
Don't support this mediocrity, just let it die. 
 
 
 
 
post edited by vulcan1978 - 2020/09/22 09:24:28

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#39
Frammish
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Re: So the 3090 is essentially a generational performance leap over the 3080 2020/09/22 09:28:56 (permalink)
It costs more to go faster. Diminishing returns. Who knows how much profit is being baked in but I would have expected these cards to cost more anyway.
 
Wailing about the cost doesn’t do much. If profits are so huge, it incentivizes competition which brings profits back in reason. If there isn’t much competition, unless Nvidia and EVGA (and others) are engaging in unfair trade practices, the profits aren’t so big to justify others investing in competing.
 
So why are so many working so hard to get Nvidia-based cards at current prices? Seems others think there is value there.
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vulcan1978
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Re: So the 3090 is essentially a generational performance leap over the 3080 2020/09/22 09:30:49 (permalink)
Frammish
It costs more to go faster. Diminishing returns. Who knows how much profit is being baked in but I would have expected these cards to cost more anyway.
 
Wailing about the cost doesn’t do much. If profits are so huge, it incentivizes competition which brings profits back in reason. If there isn’t much competition, unless Nvidia and EVGA (and others) are engaging in unfair trade practices, the profits aren’t so big to justify others investing in competing.
 
So why are so many working so hard to get Nvidia-based cards at current prices? Seems others think there is value there.




You clearly don't understand market hysteria. 
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyoqw20FRdw
 
Again, the bot debacle isn't by accident despite pronouncements by NV and EVGA and technically, nothing has been done about it. 
 
They 100% can have people pre-order at MSRP with an estimated build and ship date 1-2 months out. 
 
This isn't rocket science. 
 
It's called scarcity economics, which then generates press buzz, and market hysteria ensues. 
 
See: Toilet paper availability at the start of the "pandemic" 
 
 
post edited by vulcan1978 - 2020/09/22 09:33:49

8700k @ 5.1 GHz - 0 AVX @ 1.386v Dynamic Offset w/ EK Monoblock + Delid | Gigabyte Z370 Aorus Gaming 7 | EVGA 2080 Ti XC2 Ultra @ 2130 Mhz core, 7950 MHz memory @ 1.063v w/ 375W FTW3 vbios + Phanteks Glacier Block  | EK CE 420 + EK XE 360 | 2x16GB G-Skill Trident Z Royal 3600 MHz 17-20-20-38 | 2 TB Sabrent Rocket | Corsair RM1000x | Thermaltake View 71 | Alienware AW3418DW + Asus ROG Swift PG278Q (for 3D Vision) on Amazon Basics Arms | Win10 Pro 1809
 
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gravedigger78
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Re: So the 3090 is essentially a generational performance leap over the 3080 2020/09/22 09:39:31 (permalink)
So I take that as a no for you then?
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ehabash1
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Re: So the 3090 is essentially a generational performance leap over the 3080 2020/09/22 09:49:33 (permalink)
So that overclocked.net user who has the 3090 posted some more benchmark scores. Keep in mind his card is on air and is getting bad thermals
 
He scored 14,390 in port royal
 
Not only is that a world record, but it beats out the 3080 professional overclockers. The same guys who achieved a 2430 core using ln2 (on both gpu and cpu).
 
Not only does this score beat them, but it wins it by a substantial margin
Im very excited for the 3090
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kevinc313
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Re: So the 3090 is essentially a generational performance leap over the 3080 2020/09/22 09:58:18 (permalink)
ehabash1
So that overclocked.net user who has the 3090 posted some more benchmark scores. Keep in mind his card is on air and is getting bad thermals
 
He scored 14,390 in port royal
 
Not only is that a world record, but it beats out the 3080 professional overclockers. The same guys who achieved a 2430 core using ln2 (on both gpu and cpu).
 
Not only does this score beat them, but it wins it by a substantial margin
Im very excited for the 3090




POST A LINK.
#44
ehabash1
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Re: So the 3090 is essentially a generational performance leap over the 3080 2020/09/22 10:01:42 (permalink)
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MRizk
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Re: So the 3090 is essentially a generational performance leap over the 3080 2020/09/22 10:02:00 (permalink)
ehabash1
So that overclocked.net user who has the 3090 posted some more benchmark scores. Keep in mind his card is on air and is getting bad thermals
 
He scored 14,390 in port royal
 
Not only is that a world record, but it beats out the 3080 professional overclockers. The same guys who achieved a 2430 core using ln2 (on both gpu and cpu).
 
Not only does this score beat them, but it wins it by a substantial margin
Im very excited for the 3090


That’s really huge if true and would make the FTW3 so worth it!
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vulcan1978
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Re: So the 3090 is essentially a generational performance leap over the 3080 2020/09/22 10:14:42 (permalink)
ehabash1
So that overclocked.net user who has the 3090 posted some more benchmark scores. Keep in mind his card is on air and is getting bad thermals
 
He scored 14,390 in port royal
 
Not only is that a world record, but it beats out the 3080 professional overclockers. The same guys who achieved a 2430 core using ln2 (on both gpu and cpu).
 
Not only does this score beat them, but it wins it by a substantial margin
Im very excited for the 3090




So what, everyone was saying how GA102 couldn't overclock because it was thermally and power constrained. 
 
The 3080 FTW3 did barely 14k Port Royal under LN2 and a virtually unlimited power budget with unlocked vbios. 
 
3080 at factory clocks = 11.5k Port Royal, making for a 2.5k gain to 14k or 22% overclock. 
 
The 2080 Ti under LN2 went from 8730 Port Royal to 13,090, a staggering 49% overclock. 
 
14k Port Royal, oooooh, that's a whopping 39% faster than this 2080 Ti for $2300 with a water-block after taxes! 
 
This is a shunted GA-103-300 under water block at 550w! This isn't even indicative of what a 3090 @ 390w will do on air! 
 
It's 39% faster than MY 2080 Ti @ 2070 MHz core, 8100 MHz memory @ 343w (that run was done with the XC2 bios). 
 
343 to 550w = 60% more power for 39% more gain. 
 
Golf clap? 
 
Dude RTX 2080 Ti SLI mops the floor with this for the same price! 
 
Overclocked RTX 2080 Ti SLI does over 20k in Port Royal @ 700w! 
 
 
 
post edited by vulcan1978 - 2020/09/22 10:32:42

8700k @ 5.1 GHz - 0 AVX @ 1.386v Dynamic Offset w/ EK Monoblock + Delid | Gigabyte Z370 Aorus Gaming 7 | EVGA 2080 Ti XC2 Ultra @ 2130 Mhz core, 7950 MHz memory @ 1.063v w/ 375W FTW3 vbios + Phanteks Glacier Block  | EK CE 420 + EK XE 360 | 2x16GB G-Skill Trident Z Royal 3600 MHz 17-20-20-38 | 2 TB Sabrent Rocket | Corsair RM1000x | Thermaltake View 71 | Alienware AW3418DW + Asus ROG Swift PG278Q (for 3D Vision) on Amazon Basics Arms | Win10 Pro 1809
 
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#47
arestavo
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Re: So the 3090 is essentially a generational performance leap over the 3080 2020/09/22 10:19:51 (permalink)
vulcan1978
ehabash1
So that overclocked.net user who has the 3090 posted some more benchmark scores. Keep in mind his card is on air and is getting bad thermals
 
He scored 14,390 in port royal
 
Not only is that a world record, but it beats out the 3080 professional overclockers. The same guys who achieved a 2430 core using ln2 (on both gpu and cpu).
 
Not only does this score beat them, but it wins it by a substantial margin
Im very excited for the 3090


 ...
Dude RTX 2080 Ti SLI mops the floor with this for the same price! 
 
Overclocked RTX 2080 Ti SLI does over 20k in Port Royal @ 700w! 

Welcome to what I thought back when the 20 series was announced and then benchmarked - when I bought another 1080 Ti for SLI and mopped the floor with a single 2080 Ti for less cost.

Now, with SLI gaming officially dead in January 2021 and game devs not supporting DX12 Mgpu, multi card is dead. Long live single card performance.
#48
vulcan1978
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Re: So the 3090 is essentially a generational performance leap over the 3080 2020/09/22 10:29:22 (permalink)
arestavo
vulcan1978
ehabash1
So that overclocked.net user who has the 3090 posted some more benchmark scores. Keep in mind his card is on air and is getting bad thermals
 
He scored 14,390 in port royal
 
Not only is that a world record, but it beats out the 3080 professional overclockers. The same guys who achieved a 2430 core using ln2 (on both gpu and cpu).
 
Not only does this score beat them, but it wins it by a substantial margin
Im very excited for the 3090


 ...
Dude RTX 2080 Ti SLI mops the floor with this for the same price! 
 
Overclocked RTX 2080 Ti SLI does over 20k in Port Royal @ 700w! 

Welcome to what I thought back when the 20 series was announced and then benchmarked - when I bought another 1080 Ti for SLI and mopped the floor with a single 2080 Ti for less cost.

Now, with SLI gaming officially dead in January 2021 and game devs not supporting DX12 Mgpu, multi card is dead. Long live single card performance.



Yes this isn't news. The point is, 22% overclock under LN2 and ~7-10% overclock on air (and apparently water) is a joke. 
 
14k Port Royal shunted under a water block @ 550w, a whopping 39% faster than 2080 Ti at 60% less power draw for $2300 after taxes is also a joke!
 
I bet you I can find some 11.5k 2080 Ti Port Royal scores under water block! It's 39% faster than MY 2080 Ti at 373w, not the fastest 2080 Ti out there under a water block. 

8700k @ 5.1 GHz - 0 AVX @ 1.386v Dynamic Offset w/ EK Monoblock + Delid | Gigabyte Z370 Aorus Gaming 7 | EVGA 2080 Ti XC2 Ultra @ 2130 Mhz core, 7950 MHz memory @ 1.063v w/ 375W FTW3 vbios + Phanteks Glacier Block  | EK CE 420 + EK XE 360 | 2x16GB G-Skill Trident Z Royal 3600 MHz 17-20-20-38 | 2 TB Sabrent Rocket | Corsair RM1000x | Thermaltake View 71 | Alienware AW3418DW + Asus ROG Swift PG278Q (for 3D Vision) on Amazon Basics Arms | Win10 Pro 1809
 
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kevinc313
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Re: So the 3090 is essentially a generational performance leap over the 3080 2020/09/22 10:29:46 (permalink)
ehabash1
https://www.overclock.net...s-club.1753930/page-41




ehabash1
So that overclocked.net user who has the 3090 posted some more benchmark scores. Keep in mind his card is on air and is getting bad thermals
 
He scored 14,390 in port royal
 
Not only is that a world record, but it beats out the 3080 professional overclockers. The same guys who achieved a 2430 core using ln2 (on both gpu and cpu).
 
Not only does this score beat them, but it wins it by a substantial margin
Im very excited for the 3090




HE PUT A WATER BLOCK ON IT TO GET THAT SCORE.  AND A SHUNT MOD.  NOT STOCK AT ALL.
 
Barely beat a FTW3 3080 on a stock bios on LN2.
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ehabash1
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Re: So the 3090 is essentially a generational performance leap over the 3080 2020/09/22 10:31:06 (permalink)
vulcan1978
 
 
The 2080 Ti went from 8730 Port Royal 
 
14k Port Royal, oooooh, that's a whopping 39% faster than this 2080 Ti for $2300 with a water-block after taxes! 
 
This is a shunted GA-103-300 under water block at 550w! This isn't even indicative of what a 3090 @ 390w will do on air! 
 
 
 
 
 




A few things,
Your talking about the 3080 but this thread is about the 3090
also your mathematically challenged. Using your own 2080ti port royal numbers of 8730...it's literally 65% faster 
 
Considering you can get into the hall of fame top 100 with a score in the 11,000s... a score well over 14k is insane and shows the 3090 is more powerful than ppl realize.
 
Also, the user has a card with limited power stages, aka runs very hot. Its not an upgraded partner board. You can throw more power but it thermally limited big time
 
I'm guessing a standard kingpin 3090 will score around 15,000 under water. LN2 is an entirely different discussion. maybe we will see 17,500-18,000 this gen by an elite OC'er
#51
vulcan1978
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Re: So the 3090 is essentially a generational performance leap over the 3080 2020/09/22 10:38:32 (permalink)
ehabash1
vulcan1978
 
 
The 2080 Ti went from 8730 Port Royal 
 
14k Port Royal, oooooh, that's a whopping 39% faster than this 2080 Ti for $2300 with a water-block after taxes! 
 
This is a shunted GA-103-300 under water block at 550w! This isn't even indicative of what a 3090 @ 390w will do on air! 
 
 
 
 
 




A few things,
Your talking about the 3080 but this thread is about the 3090
also your mathematically challenged. Using your own 2080ti port royal numbers of 8730...it's literally 65% faster 
 
Considering you can get into the hall of fame top 100 with a score in the 11,000s... a score well over 14k is insane and shows the 3090 is more powerful than ppl realize.
 
Also, the user has a card with limited power stages, aka runs very hot. Its not an upgraded partner board. You can throw more power but it thermally limited big time
 
I'm guessing a standard kingpin 3090 will score around 15,000 under water. LN2 is an entirely different discussion. maybe we will see 17,500-18,000 this gen by an elite OC'er




I neglected to add the link to my 10,368 run in that post: https://www.3dmark.com/pr/251502
 
8730 is what 2080 Ti FE does according to this Kitguru 3080 review: https://www.kitguru.net/components/graphic-cards/dominic-moass/gigabyte-rtx-3080-eagle-oc-review/5/
 
2080 Ti does 13,090 under LN2 in Port Royal, making for a 49% overclock above 8730. 
 
RTX 3080 FE does 11.5k Port Royal @ factory clocks and 14k under LN2 @ -160C and with 900w available, making for a 22% overclock. 
 
Your guessing is garbage, we don't need to guess what a Kingpin will do (first off all Vince, who designs the Kingpin every generation, is no longer with EVGA and there may not even be a Kingpin card this time around) because we can see what a shunted and water cooled 3090 will do @ 550w, and that's 14,300. 
 
Golf clap? 
 
"OOOH THIS IS SO FAST DUDE". 
 
It's not! 
 
This is garbage! 
 
If this was the 3080 @ 370w under water block (not LN2 @ 900w available) we could sing praise, this is a card that 95% of people reading this cannot afford and will not buy! No praise to sing for that! 
 
39% faster at 60% more power draw than the outgoing 80 Ti card, whoopty doo!
post edited by Sajin - 2020/09/22 11:58:52

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#52
ehabash1
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Re: So the 3090 is essentially a generational performance leap over the 3080 2020/09/22 10:40:15 (permalink)
kevinc313
 
HE PUT A WATER BLOCK ON IT TO GET THAT SCORE.  AND A SHUNT MOD.  NOT STOCK AT ALL.
 
Barely beat a FTW3 3080 on a stock bios on LN2.




your confirmation bias is showing Hardcore.
It literally beat a professional overclocker who was running tests for over 5 hours with a HIGHER power limit bios over 800 watts and LN2 pushed to its near limit temperature threshold and got so cold they were worried about motherboard cracking.
 
And "barley beat? your talking about beating a world record by over 300 points thats a huge margin
 
This dude made a ghetto ass waterblock that is not officially supported and his vrms are getting too hot on the backside. Hes reporting temps over 60 core as well and that might as well be air temps
 
his power usage wasnt even close to 550 watts. The board he used it literally a base model with poor power stages simply not designed to handle it; and thermally wasn't allowed to even get close to the threshold 
post edited by ehabash1 - 2020/09/22 10:44:17
#53
vulcan1978
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Re: So the 3090 is essentially a generational performance leap over the 3080 2020/09/22 10:48:47 (permalink)
ehabash1
kevinc313
 
HE PUT A WATER BLOCK ON IT TO GET THAT SCORE.  AND A SHUNT MOD.  NOT STOCK AT ALL.
 
Barely beat a FTW3 3080 on a stock bios on LN2.




your confirmation bias is showing Hardcore.
It literally beat a professional overclocker who was running tests for over 5 hours with a HIGHER power limit bios over 800 watts and LN2 pushed to its near limit temperature threshold and got so cold they were worried about motherboard cracking.
 
And "barley beat? your talking about beating a world record by over 300 points thats a huge margin
 
This dude made a ghetto ass waterblock that is not officially supported and his vrms are getting too hot on the backside. Hes reporting temps over 60 core as well and that might as well be air temps



The 3090 is not impressive. 
 
300 points in Port Royal isn't a big deal. 
 
Here's what would impress me: 
 
3090 performance at the same power draw as the 2080 Ti for $1000. 
 
Guess what card will have that? 
 
It won't be made by Nvidia. 
 
I can give you a hint. 
 
The APU in the XBox Series X is the CPU and GPU compute equivalent of an AMD 3700x and an RTX 2080 @ 170w. 
 
A card with this architecture (7nm TSMC) will be released in November and will sit in between the 3080 and 3090 performance wise @ 300w with 16 (or 24)GB of video memory for $1000 and will assuredly run the next gen console ports, whose various engines, including Unreal engine, will be optimized around the underlying architecture (RDNA2) and will offer path tracing, AI super-sampling and AMD's equivalent of RTX IO (AMD invented the tech first, NV followed suit). 
 
Ampere is for the mindless masses who think a 40% gain at 60% more TDP for $2300 (quality AIB card, water block, taxes and shipping) is a great deal.
post edited by Sajin - 2020/09/22 12:06:23

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#54
AHowes
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Re: So the 3090 is essentially a generational performance leap over the 3080 2020/09/22 10:49:31 (permalink)
vulcan1978
ehabash1
vulcan1978
 
 
The 2080 Ti went from 8730 Port Royal 
 
14k Port Royal, oooooh, that's a whopping 39% faster than this 2080 Ti for $2300 with a water-block after taxes! 
 
This is a shunted GA-103-300 under water block at 550w! This isn't even indicative of what a 3090 @ 390w will do on air! 
 
 
 
 
 




A few things,
Your talking about the 3080 but this thread is about the 3090
also your mathematically challenged. Using your own 2080ti port royal numbers of 8730...it's literally 65% faster 
 
Considering you can get into the hall of fame top 100 with a score in the 11,000s... a score well over 14k is insane and shows the 3090 is more powerful than ppl realize.
 
Also, the user has a card with limited power stages, aka runs very hot. Its not an upgraded partner board. You can throw more power but it thermally limited big time
 
I'm guessing a standard kingpin 3090 will score around 15,000 under water. LN2 is an entirely different discussion. maybe we will see 17,500-18,000 this gen by an elite OC'er




I neglected to add the link to my 10,368 run in that post: https://www.3dmark.com/pr/251502
 
8730 is what 2080 Ti FE does according to this Kitguru 3080 review: https://www.kitguru.net/components/graphic-cards/dominic-moass/gigabyte-rtx-3080-eagle-oc-review/5/
 
2080 Ti does 13,090 under LN2 in Port Royal, making for a 49% overclock above 8730. 
 
RTX 3080 FE does 11.5k Port Royal @ factory clocks and 14k under LN2 @ -160C and with 900w available, making for a 22% overclock. 
 
Your guessing is garbage, we don't need to guess what a Kingpin will do (first off all Vince, who designs the Kingpin every generation, is no longer with EVGA and there may not even be a Kingpin card this time around) because we can see what a shunted and water cooled 3090 will do @ 550w, and that's 14,300. 
 
Golf clap? 
 
"OOOH THIS IS SO FAST DUDE". 
 
It's not! 
 
This is garbage! 
 
If this was the 3080 @ 370w under water block (not LN2 @ 900w available) we could sing praise, this is a card that 95% of people reading this cannot afford and will not buy! No praise to sing for that! 
 
39% faster at 60% more power draw than the outgoing 80 Ti card, whoopty doo! 
 
 


Vince is gone as well? Thought it was just TiN?

Jacob has already mentioned a Kingpin coming this Oct/Nov many times already.
post edited by Sajin - 2020/09/22 12:01:22

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#55
vulcan1978
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Re: So the 3090 is essentially a generational performance leap over the 3080 2020/09/22 10:51:33 (permalink)
AHowes
vulcan1978
ehabash1
vulcan1978


The 2080 Ti went from 8730 Port Royal 

14k Port Royal, oooooh, that's a whopping 39% faster than this 2080 Ti for $2300 with a water-block after taxes! 

This is a shunted GA-103-300 under water block at 550w! This isn't even indicative of what a 3090 @ 390w will do on air! 









A few things,
Your talking about the 3080 but this thread is about the 3090
also your mathematically challenged. Using your own 2080ti port royal numbers of 8730...it's literally 65% faster 

Considering you can get into the hall of fame top 100 with a score in the 11,000s... a score well over 14k is insane and shows the 3090 is more powerful than ppl realize.

Also, the user has a card with limited power stages, aka runs very hot. Its not an upgraded partner board. You can throw more power but it thermally limited big time

I'm guessing a standard kingpin 3090 will score around 15,000 under water. LN2 is an entirely different discussion. maybe we will see 17,500-18,000 this gen by an elite OC'er




I neglected to add the link to my 10,368 run in that post: https://www.3dmark.com/pr/251502

8730 is what 2080 Ti FE does according to this Kitguru 3080 review: https://www.kitguru.net/components/graphic-cards/dominic-moass/gigabyte-rtx-3080-eagle-oc-review/5/

2080 Ti does 13,090 under LN2 in Port Royal, making for a 49% overclock above 8730. 

RTX 3080 FE does 11.5k Port Royal @ factory clocks and 14k under LN2 @ -160C and with 900w available, making for a 22% overclock. 

Your guessing is garbage, we don't need to guess what a Kingpin will do (first off all Vince, who designs the Kingpin every generation, is no longer with EVGA and there may not even be a Kingpin card this time around) because we can see what a shunted and water cooled 3090 will do @ 550w, and that's 14,300. 

Golf clap? 

"OOOH THIS IS SO FAST DUDE". 

It's not! 

This is garbage! 

If this was the 3080 @ 370w under water block (not LN2 @ 900w available) we could sing praise, this is a card that 95% of people reading this cannot afford and will not buy! No praise to sing for that! 

39% faster at 60% more power draw than the outgoing 80 Ti card, whoopty doo! 




Vince is gone as well? Thought it was just TiN?

Jacob has already mentioned a Kingpin coming this Oct/Nov many times already.



Yes, Jacob and the custodial staff @ EVGA headquarters are busy making it right now. But don't worry, it will still be just as good as Kingpin has always been. :)
post edited by Sajin - 2020/09/22 12:02:22

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#56
kevinc313
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Re: So the 3090 is essentially a generational performance leap over the 3080 2020/09/22 10:53:45 (permalink)
ehabash1
kevinc313
 
HE PUT A WATER BLOCK ON IT TO GET THAT SCORE.  AND A SHUNT MOD.  NOT STOCK AT ALL.
 
Barely beat a FTW3 3080 on a stock bios on LN2.




your confirmation bias is showing Hardcore.
It literally beat a professional overclocker who was running tests for over 5 hours with a HIGHER power limit bios over 800 watts and LN2 pushed to its near limit temperature threshold and got so cold they were worried about motherboard cracking.
 
And "barley beat? your talking about beating a world record by over 300 points thats a huge margin
 
This dude made a ghetto ass waterblock that is not officially supported and his vrms are getting too hot on the backside. Hes reporting temps over 60 core as well and that might as well be air temps
 
his power usage wasnt even close to 550 watts. The board he used it literally a base model with poor power stages simply not designed to handle it; and thermally wasn't allowed to even get close to the threshold 




YOU ARE GOING OUT OF YOUR WAY TO MISREPRESENT THE PERFORMANCE OF THE 3090.
#57
vulcan1978
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Re: So the 3090 is essentially a generational performance leap over the 3080 2020/09/22 11:15:28 (permalink)
kevinc313
ehabash1
kevinc313
 
HE PUT A WATER BLOCK ON IT TO GET THAT SCORE.  AND A SHUNT MOD.  NOT STOCK AT ALL.
 
Barely beat a FTW3 3080 on a stock bios on LN2.




your confirmation bias is showing Hardcore.
It literally beat a professional overclocker who was running tests for over 5 hours with a HIGHER power limit bios over 800 watts and LN2 pushed to its near limit temperature threshold and got so cold they were worried about motherboard cracking.
 
And "barley beat? your talking about beating a world record by over 300 points thats a huge margin
 
This dude made a ghetto ass waterblock that is not officially supported and his vrms are getting too hot on the backside. Hes reporting temps over 60 core as well and that might as well be air temps
 
his power usage wasnt even close to 550 watts. The board he used it literally a base model with poor power stages simply not designed to handle it; and thermally wasn't allowed to even get close to the threshold 




YOU ARE GOING OUT OF YOUR WAY TO MISREPRESENT THE PERFORMANCE OF THE 3090.




Reading ehabash1's comment more thoroughly, this guy is clueless, that 3090 100% is at 550w and is not under some "ghetto block" but an actual 3090 WB designed by Alpha Cool. 
 
https://videocardz.com/newz/even-more-nvidia-geforce-rtx-3090-benchmarks-leak
 
BTW, ehabash1, my OC.net handle is Vulcan1978, in the 3090 Owners Club thread you cited, I'm sure you will find my technical analysis of vmanuelgm's Metro Exodus benchmark on (9-20-2020) relevant. 
 
To sum up, the 3090 normalized for 390w is 25% faster at 1440p without DLSS (both cards) and 47% faster with DLSS enabled on both cards. 
 
It is 35% faster at 3840x2160 without DLSS (both cards) and 57% faster with DLSS enabled on both cards. 
 
We get into the technical aspect of the Tensor Cores as well, how FP16 performance has doubled with less SM's, giving GA-102-300 a 20% uplift in Tensor Core full and sparse calculations over TU-102, which correlates perfectly with the 20% uplift we see with DLSS 1.0 on and off in Metro Exodus. 
 
95% of my library, including the titles I'm playing right now, Middle Earth: Shadow of War, XCOM 2 WOTC, The Witcher 3, Devil May Cry 5, Mafia 3, etc. do not have DLSS support. The vast majority of games on my backlog, do not have DLSS support. I'm at 3440x1440. Realistically I'm looking at a 25% bump with 95% of my titles going from overclocked 2080 Ti @ 373w @ 16,750 Timespy (see signature) to 20,500 (what an MSI 3090 Trio does at 390w) = 23% gain. The only value of this upgrade would be VR in my pre-ordered Reverb G2 (2160x2160x2) where there would be a 35% uplift without DLSS and a 55% uplift whenever VR DLSS is supported in newer titles (yet to be seen). One may not see the 55% uplift via DLSS VR supported titles for a year or two to come and by that time Hopper will be out and offer 3090 performance for $700! 
 
The 3090 for $2300 after water-block, back-plate, taxes and shipping is not praise-worth @ 25-35% bump at 1440p and 4K respectively. The occasional game that comes along with DLSS support, sure, that's 45% at 3440x1440! But for $2300, dude the card is going to need to be 200% faster than my 2080 Ti and transform into a robot to make me a sandwich on command! 
 
Here's how bad of a value proposition this is. If my rig, heaven forbid, knock on wood, should spring a leak, short the PSU and take out my mobo, CPU and GPU with it I could make an entire new system for $2300 with a $500 RTX 3070. 
 
RTX 3070: $500
Z390 Mobo: $250
i9 9900k = $400
2x16 3600 MHz memory (Trident Z Royals!) = $200
PSU = $150
2x Serial D5's (assuming they shorted as well, maybe not) = $200
 
Grand total: $1700
 
Dude, I could make an all AMD system next year on Zen 3 with a $1000 6900xt for around $2300! 
 
This isn't some "generational uplift that needs to be celebrated" 
 
This is mediocrity and price gouging and needs to be called out. 
post edited by vulcan1978 - 2020/09/22 11:25:24

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#58
gravedigger78
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Re: So the 3090 is essentially a generational performance leap over the 3080 2020/09/22 11:19:36 (permalink)
So did Vince retire?
#59
clcorbin
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Re: So the 3090 is essentially a generational performance leap over the 3080 2020/09/22 12:02:30 (permalink)
ehabash1
The 3090 will necessitate using the higher binned GA102 chips in the first place since it has 82 SMs instead of only 68 SMs. This impacts the overall quality of RTX 3080 chips. Most of the Bin 2 chips end up going into RTX 3090. And by default, all the Bin 0 chips will end up in RTX 3080.

 
Keep in mind that SPEED bins and FUNCTIONAL bins are not the same.  Functionality of units in the DIE are driven directly by critical defect density.  AKA: there was SOME DEFECT big enough to "Kill" something critical in that area.  Speed bins are generally more indicative of the overall quality of that specific die/wafer/lot.  You very much can get a speed bin 2 that is unusable for anything because too many cores are defective.  And you can get speed bin 0 dies that have 100% functionality (aka: 3090) but might not be fast enough.
 
I suspect if OCing is going poorly right now it is more due to overall process quality (they ARE refining the process as more lots are made and more data is created showing where they have holes) than due to all the good bins going to 3090s.  And it WILL get better as production is refined and the masks are eventually respun.
post edited by clcorbin - 2020/09/22 12:08:20
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