EVGA

LockedHot!So much for Overpriced RTX's

Page: < 1234 > Showing page 2 of 4
Author
panzlock
FTW Member
  • Total Posts : 1331
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2016/11/10 17:56:33
  • Location: Canada
  • Status: offline
  • Ribbons : 0
Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's 2019/03/18 11:10:39 (permalink)
Holdolin
 
You forgot to tell him he paid for the box it came in too, since that also inflated the price 




I doubt people realize how much they are paying for a box that costs $0.50 to manufacture because they are preoccupied with reflections.
#31
asmodyus
SSC Member
  • Total Posts : 750
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2008/03/25 09:08:31
  • Status: offline
  • Ribbons : 1
Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's 2019/03/18 14:05:34 (permalink)
kram36
Cool GTX
Value is in the eye of the person doing the purchasing
 
Over Priced ?  Um, not really. 

I paid about the same price my Nvidia Titan X Pascal cost & My EVGA 2080 Ti have More Power
 
20 series are on a much larger chip, FAB cost rose due to yield issues.  Assembly lines need to be reworked because of the Chip size

One can hope future production improvements = lower prices
 


Agreed 100%. People just don't see what you're actually getting for the money, but looking at the card's name only.
 
Like you said you got better performance along with RTX and DLSS features for the same price of the previous gen $1,200 video card.
 



LOL you again you know you are correct for spending the same amount regardless on the naming scheme he got a better performance for paying 1200 dollars. So yes the the RTX 2080 ti is better perfomance than the Titan XP and the 1080ti was better perfomance than the titan X, But wait you would have spent less to get better perfomance than the last gen model. Also I think the better question would be if someone was paying 700 dollars does he get a perfromance upgrade to last year 700 dollar card? The answer is no he would not he would have to spend 500 dollars more to get better performance than his previos generation but he would get better perfomance for raytracing than the previous gen model. So really its all realtive on how you look at it glass half full or half empty but its nice to see that there might be option for Raytracing with older cards.
post edited by asmodyus - 2019/03/18 14:10:30

   
   
Have a EVGA product to register? Please use my Affiliate Code when registering your product.
Click the banner to register with my Affiliate Code. Thank You Very Much!
 
 
        Heatware           
#32
Hoggle
EVGA Forum Moderator
  • Total Posts : 3880
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2003/10/13 22:10:45
  • Location: Eugene, OR
  • Status: offline
  • Ribbons : 3
Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's 2019/03/18 14:39:03 (permalink)
Gold Leader
DLSS is quite terrible to be very honest, it decreases image quality by quite a fair margin, Image quality is better when RTX is off, Crytek's solution sems to be an even better choice in the end.
It looks much better, image quality wise than NV's so called hardware Ray Tracing "RTX On "solution, even being  NV's Ray Tracing method is not even full ray tracing either, it's partial, what Crytek managed is lots more, even it runs fine on a AMD Radeon RX Vega 56, all thanks to  CryEngine 5.5 :)

And thanks to this, there no need to waste on RTX Gimmick tech that ruins your image quality, yet the RTX boards are greatly overpriced, for a feature that barely does 50 fps at 1080p, 1440p/1600p & 2160p/2400p is not even plausible, even NV did do false marketing that you can get 60fps @ 4K reso's the lies rofl

UDF Tech explains and and proves it, and I know there will always be that lot won't agree with it, that's fine, they just make themselves look funny, just by denying the facts that professional reviewers have proved.


JayzTwoCents:


Gaming Nexus:




I prefer actual facts over marketing and propaganda nonsense, that always wins in the end
UDF tech isn't the only one that proved it Gaming Nexus & JayzTwoCents did as well as many others.
 
Also Ray Tracing even worked fine with the Amiga 500, it's nothing new, just old tech being reused for marketing, yet the three games that do support RTX, don't look great due to sheer image quality loss due to DLSS, just disable it for the better picture I'd be like.
NV could just of released the GTX 1180 / GTX 1180 Ti without the RTX nonsense and then these overrated prices would of been far better as well, most people I know game with RTX off simply due to the image quality loss DLSS gives.
 
Crytek's solution won't have to suffer from that major image quality loss issue NV's DLSS is camping with either, so all in all, Crytek has the answer everyone has been waiting for




Metro showed that DLSS works. After the first patch fixed DLSS it showed that it can be done without it being a blurry mess. https://hothardware.com/reviews/metro 

Use an Associates Code & SAVE 5% - 10% on your purchase. If you choose to use my code I want to personally say "Thank You" for using it.
 
 
#33
atfrico
Omnipotent Enthusiast
  • Total Posts : 9171
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2008/05/20 16:16:06
  • Location: <--Dip, Dip, Potato Chip!-->
  • Status: offline
  • Ribbons : 22
Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's 2019/03/18 15:26:06 (permalink)
Gold Leader
DLSS is quite terrible to be very honest, it decreases image quality by quite a fair margin, Image quality is better when RTX is off, Crytek's solution sems to be an even better choice in the end.
It looks much better, image quality wise than NV's so called hardware Ray Tracing "RTX On "solution, even being  NV's Ray Tracing method is not even full ray tracing either, it's partial, what Crytek managed is lots more, even it runs fine on a AMD Radeon RX Vega 56, all thanks to  CryEngine 5.5 :)

And thanks to this, there no need to waste on RTX Gimmick tech that ruins your image quality, yet the RTX boards are greatly overpriced, for a feature that barely does 50 fps at 1080p, 1440p/1600p & 2160p/2400p is not even plausible, even NV did do false marketing that you can get 60fps @ 4K reso's the lies rofl
UDF Tech explains and and proves it, and I know there will always be that lot won't agree with it, that's fine, they just make themselves look funny, just by denying the facts that professional reviewers have proved.
I prefer actual facts over marketing and propaganda nonsense, that always wins in the end
UDF tech isn't the only one that proved it Gaming Nexus & JayzTwoCents did as well as many others.
 
Also Ray Tracing even worked fine with the Amiga 500, it's nothing new, just old tech being reused for marketing, yet the three games that do support RTX, don't look great due to sheer image quality loss due to DLSS, just disable it for the better picture I'd be like.
NV could just of released the GTX 1180 / GTX 1180 Ti without the RTX nonsense and then these overrated prices would of been far better as well, most people I know game with RTX off simply due to the image quality loss DLSS gives.
 
Crytek's solution won't have to suffer from that major image quality loss issue NV's DLSS is camping with either, so all in all, Crytek has the answer everyone has been waiting for


Great helpful videos and info. Thank you for posting hard honest, in your face, facts Gold Leader
This explains why AMD did not went ahead with the RT and DLSS fiasco.  
Crytek pretty much slapped Nvidia in the face with the RT Demo running with a less expensive GPU AMD Vega64.
Man this made my day. I going to grab a brew-stoskis for celebration.

Those who abuse power, are nothing but scumbags!
 The challenge of power is how to use it and not abuse it. When you abuse it, it reverses on you and it hurts you.The abuse of power that seems to create the most unhappiness is when a person uses personal power to get ahead without regards to the welfare of others, people are obsessed with it. You can take a nice person and turn them into a slob, into an insane being, craving power, destroying anything that stands in their way.
#34
Gold Leader
CLASSIFIED Member
  • Total Posts : 3687
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2009/05/30 03:06:17
  • Location: Dirksland, The Netherlands
  • Status: offline
  • Ribbons : 52
Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's 2019/03/18 16:40:05 (permalink)
atfrico
Gold Leader
DLSS is quite terrible to be very honest, it decreases image quality by quite a fair margin, Image quality is better when RTX is off, Crytek's solution sems to be an even better choice in the end.
It looks much better, image quality wise than NV's so called hardware Ray Tracing "RTX On "solution, even being  NV's Ray Tracing method is not even full ray tracing either, it's partial, what Crytek managed is lots more, even it runs fine on a AMD Radeon RX Vega 56, all thanks to  CryEngine 5.5 :)

And thanks to this, there no need to waste on RTX Gimmick tech that ruins your image quality, yet the RTX boards are greatly overpriced, for a feature that barely does 50 fps at 1080p, 1440p/1600p & 2160p/2400p is not even plausible, even NV did do false marketing that you can get 60fps @ 4K reso's the lies rofl
UDF Tech explains and and proves it, and I know there will always be that lot won't agree with it, that's fine, they just make themselves look funny, just by denying the facts that professional reviewers have proved.
I prefer actual facts over marketing and propaganda nonsense, that always wins in the end
UDF tech isn't the only one that proved it Gaming Nexus & JayzTwoCents did as well as many others.
 
Also Ray Tracing even worked fine with the Amiga 500, it's nothing new, just old tech being reused for marketing, yet the three games that do support RTX, don't look great due to sheer image quality loss due to DLSS, just disable it for the better picture I'd be like.
NV could just of released the GTX 1180 / GTX 1180 Ti without the RTX nonsense and then these overrated prices would of been far better as well, most people I know game with RTX off simply due to the image quality loss DLSS gives.
 
Crytek's solution won't have to suffer from that major image quality loss issue NV's DLSS is camping with either, so all in all, Crytek has the answer everyone has been waiting for


Great helpful videos and info. Thank you for posting hard honest, in your face, facts Gold Leader
This explains why AMD did not went ahead with the RT and DLSS fiasco.  
Crytek pretty much slapped Nvidia in the face with the RT Demo running with a less expensive GPU AMD Vega64.
Man this made my day. I going to grab a brew-stoskis for celebration.


Exactly! and thanks !  It was actually a RX Vega 56, a card that beats the GTX 1660 Ti with plentiful ease as well with some simply undervolting & OCing hehe...

Even after the patch DLSS had the image quality is still poor compared to using without that setting.
It would of been noticed by UDF Tech, JayzTwoCents & Gamer Nexus if that was true, which it isn't., NVIDIA sadly always was good at lying themselves out of it, only I never felt for such cheap tricks :)
"nGreedia the Way their customers are played" that was a thing that did go through my mind a lot of times, the high stupid pricing for tech that barely works and puts it's value to it's rights.. right... I won't let any company play me like that simple.

But hey I am pretty sure  Ampere may fix lots of these things, the RTX 20 series is a start for NV's Ray Tracing ideal which is not even  100% Ray tracing, it's partial, and what Crytek did, was the real deal without the need of fancy marketing bollocks.
And no worries, I have had over 800 graphics cards since 1985 I have seen a lot of great and less great things, left alone lots of failures and not only on NVIDIA's side, sadly 3dfx bled themselves out after the Banshee was launched... they used more thn half of the 3dfx Rampage Dev team to work on Banshee... Banshee was a 2D /3D Video card based on a Voodoo2 single chip solution with only 1 TMU over the expected 2 that was later used for Voodoo3 aka 3dfx 355 Avenger. Even that Voodoo3, 5 and later Voodoo4 were just gap fillers to delay Rampage even more.
But anyways I prefer to be realistic and not stick to marketing Radeon VII also was rushed out it's drivers were not mature enough and that too should not be ignored.
After launch, the next 2 days later they did manage to get the Rad7's major driver issues fixed, so I would prefer a driver bug over a hardware flaw...
As the high RMA count of the RTX 20 series went, this was the main thing that backed me off completely from them, yet the GTX 10 series was simply amazing.

The EVGA RTX 2080 FTW3 would of been my choice, TU-104-400-A1 2944 Turning CUDA Cores, 476 Turning Tensor ores  with 8GB 256Bit GDDR6 VRAM.
But due to the high RMA limit and the crap you get with the Space Invaders and all, all that stressing about wasn't worth it for me, so I am keeping my R9 Fury, RX 580 & RX Vega 64 for now till the new line of NVIDIA, AMD & Intel products pop up in 2020.
if the RTX 2080 gets a refresh I will stand open to such solutions as well, unless Sapphire does a Nitro version of the Radeon VII that too won't be ignored, all options is better than just one
Such expensive hardware should be good and functional for more than 2 days to 3 months, but more like 5 to 7 years at least.
At 2CPU.com one of our members is testing his 3rd RTX 2080 Ti a Zotac board, it's been a stable 2 months now, but when using CUDA or DirectX he still gets issues, but with OpenGL all seems to be fine, so it could also be driver related, feel free to read more of that here:
http://forums.2cpu.com/sh...hp?p=830564#post830564
post edited by Gold Leader - 2019/03/18 17:12:36


#35
Brad_Hawthorne
Insert Custom Title Here
  • Total Posts : 21582
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2004/06/06 16:13:06
  • Location: Dazed & Confused
  • Status: offline
  • Ribbons : 35
Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's 2019/03/18 19:39:24 (permalink)
So, it this just another proprietary RTX/DXR/whatever? Crytech is a dumpster fire, why would any dev want to invest so deeply into an experimental render option done by an engine dev that is on such thin ice? Are they still paying their employees with IOUs?
#36
Xavier Zepherious
CLASSIFIED ULTRA Member
  • Total Posts : 5669
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2010/07/04 12:53:39
  • Location: Medicine Hat ,Alberta, Canada
  • Status: offline
  • Ribbons : 15
Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's 2019/03/18 19:47:28 (permalink)
you will take a big hit in performance and you won't get amb Occ - because that would take too much of the card's performance
 

 
   


Primes found        Affiliate Code:YN2AHK39LH
 
 
#37
asmodyus
SSC Member
  • Total Posts : 750
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2008/03/25 09:08:31
  • Status: offline
  • Ribbons : 1
Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's 2019/03/18 21:57:10 (permalink)
And look what just happened
 
https://www.pcmag.com/new...er-gtx-10-series-cards
 
Granted it will not be as fast as the RTX, but still I think nvidia is starting to realize they are being called on there own bull with weak sales and now crytek showing them up.
 
 
post edited by asmodyus - 2019/03/18 22:22:12

   
   
Have a EVGA product to register? Please use my Affiliate Code when registering your product.
Click the banner to register with my Affiliate Code. Thank You Very Much!
 
 
        Heatware           
#38
atfrico
Omnipotent Enthusiast
  • Total Posts : 9171
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2008/05/20 16:16:06
  • Location: <--Dip, Dip, Potato Chip!-->
  • Status: offline
  • Ribbons : 22
Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's 2019/03/18 22:09:36 (permalink)
asmodyus
And look what just happened
 
https://www.pcmag.com/new...er-gtx-10-series-cards
 
Granted it will not be as fast as the RTX, but still I think nvidia is starting realizing there being called on there own bull weak sales and now crytek showing them up.
 
 


When I was reading the article this came to my mind below about those who own the RTX finding out about this

 

Watch the RTX GPU prices compare to the GTX series prices after those drivers are released.
 
@ Gold Leader thanks for that PM and you are spot on that 200%
 
 
 

Those who abuse power, are nothing but scumbags!
 The challenge of power is how to use it and not abuse it. When you abuse it, it reverses on you and it hurts you.The abuse of power that seems to create the most unhappiness is when a person uses personal power to get ahead without regards to the welfare of others, people are obsessed with it. You can take a nice person and turn them into a slob, into an insane being, craving power, destroying anything that stands in their way.
#39
Hoggle
EVGA Forum Moderator
  • Total Posts : 3880
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2003/10/13 22:10:45
  • Location: Eugene, OR
  • Status: offline
  • Ribbons : 3
Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's 2019/03/18 23:17:42 (permalink)
asmodyus
And look what just happened
 
https://www.pcmag.com/new...er-gtx-10-series-cards
 
Granted it will not be as fast as the RTX, but still I think nvidia is starting to realize they are being called on there own bull with weak sales and now crytek showing them up.
 
 


Wait until we see the benchmarks. You assume that the 1080ti will preform like a 2080Ti in ray tracing. We could be looking at unplayable frame rates.

Use an Associates Code & SAVE 5% - 10% on your purchase. If you choose to use my code I want to personally say "Thank You" for using it.
 
 
#40
GTXJackBauer
CLASSIFIED Member
  • Total Posts : 4725
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2010/04/19 22:23:25
  • Location: U.S.A
  • Status: offline
  • Ribbons : 25
Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's 2019/03/18 23:20:55 (permalink)
Hoggle
asmodyus
And look what just happened
 
https://www.pcmag.com/new...er-gtx-10-series-cards
 
Granted it will not be as fast as the RTX, but still I think nvidia is starting to realize they are being called on there own bull with weak sales and now crytek showing them up.
 
 


Wait until we see the benchmarks. You assume that the 1080ti will preform like a 2080Ti in ray tracing. We could be looking at unplayable frame rates.



+1

Its funny reading people's comments while hoping for the worst and bashing RTX owners.  Grow up guys.  If you don't own one or don't care for it, why are you still here complaining about it?  I have to skip through these comments on an almost daily basis just to read relevant posts.

Looking to purchase a EVGA 2080 Ti Kingpin and a EVGA KingPin Waterblock? 
 
Use this Associate Code to get 5%-10% discounts on all your EVGA purchases:  LMD3DNZM9LGK8GJ
Use this Rewards Code below when registering your EVGA products.

#41
Gold Leader
CLASSIFIED Member
  • Total Posts : 3687
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2009/05/30 03:06:17
  • Location: Dirksland, The Netherlands
  • Status: offline
  • Ribbons : 52
Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's 2019/03/18 23:58:18 (permalink)
atfrico
asmodyus
And look what just happened
 
https://www.pcmag.com/new...er-gtx-10-series-cards
 
Granted it will not be as fast as the RTX, but still I think nvidia is starting realizing there being called on there own bull weak sales and now crytek showing them up.
 
 


When I was reading the article this came to my mind below about those who own the RTX finding out about this

 

Watch the RTX GPU prices compare to the GTX series prices after those drivers are released.
 
@ Gold Leader thanks for that PM and you are spot on that 200%
 
 
 


No worries man I just know my GPU's thanks to 34 years of experience, and for those that disagree I shall always have my laughs, good for the amusement
You won't see me waste money in over capitalized hardware that has tech that is barely used or left alone seen as rather useless


#42
asmodyus
SSC Member
  • Total Posts : 750
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2008/03/25 09:08:31
  • Status: offline
  • Ribbons : 1
Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's 2019/03/19 05:04:34 (permalink)
Hoggle
asmodyus
And look what just happened
 
https://www.pcmag.com/new...er-gtx-10-series-cards
 
Granted it will not be as fast as the RTX, but still, I think Nvidia is starting to realize they are being called on their own bull with weak sales and now Crytek showing them up.
 
 


Wait until we see the benchmarks. You assume that the 1080ti will perform like a 2080Ti in ray tracing. We could be looking at unplayable frame rates.


I'm sure my first sentence was contrary to your assumption when I said not as fast. I know it won't be it might not be in the same ballpark we have no clue.

Also, note I'm not bashing RTX owners I'm really just bashing the price point on them and nvidia for asking the premiums there asking. Don't get me wrong if they drop down in price I will be the first to buy one.

They are beast of cards I just don't agree with the price tag on them and who knows were ray tracing will go it's been around forever but it seems Nvidia wants to make a thing and it might just be a big thing but it's really too early.

   
   
Have a EVGA product to register? Please use my Affiliate Code when registering your product.
Click the banner to register with my Affiliate Code. Thank You Very Much!
 
 
        Heatware           
#43
Stefem
Superclocked Member
  • Total Posts : 113
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2009/02/02 02:48:42
  • Location: Italy
  • Status: offline
  • Ribbons : 0
Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's 2019/03/19 05:30:33 (permalink)
rjohnson11
RTX cards will give you the best ray tracing results, but CRYTEK has shown that ray tracing can work with other GPUs even the lowly AMD Vega 56.


They didn't show nothing new actually and no one ever said dedicated hardware is required (DXR works with any DX12 GPU), there is even a game released in October 2017 that use raytracing not just for reflection but for primary pass (so it's not even an hybrid approach), AO and shadow but no one is talking about it.
I think that CryTek is trying to generate some hype as they didn't release any detail and they are dodging technical questions while they plan to gradually release more info, usually developers don't act that way unless they want to build hype (which, BTW, is completely legitimate).
#44
transdogmifier
CLASSIFIED Member
  • Total Posts : 3735
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2003/09/05 14:26:21
  • Location: Boston, MA
  • Status: offline
  • Ribbons : 8
Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's 2019/03/19 05:38:58 (permalink)
panzlock
Holdolin
 
You forgot to tell him he paid for the box it came in too, since that also inflated the price 




I doubt people realize how much they are paying for a box that costs $0.50 to manufacture because they are preoccupied with reflections.




 
Again, it all comes down to "is it worth it?" to the individual.
 
I'm quite happy with the card...regardless of paying for the box, ray tracing or RGB (Which I also didn't want).
 
 

Intel 9900k
Alphacool Eisbaer 420 CPU cooler
Gigabyte Aorus Z390 Ultra
eVGA GeForce RTX 2080 Ti FTW3 Ultra Gaming (Hybrid kit on it)
eVGA 1600W Supernova G2 PSU
32GB G.skill Ripjaws 3200MHz
Samsung Pro 970 512GB
Thermaltake Core X9 Case
 
My Affiliate Code: 8ST3SZQYI7
Associate Code: J4T7H4SOBIGFO8F
#45
MasterMiner
iCX Member
  • Total Posts : 290
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2018/01/25 21:39:33
  • Status: offline
  • Ribbons : 1
Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's 2019/03/20 07:59:27 (permalink)
So what happened is Nvidia spent a ton developing Tensor Cores for their AI cards. Depending on what type of data you’re working with it does a phenomenal job at matrix math at 16-bit precision. Orders of magnitude faster than 32-bit traditional techniques. Having developed this tech, the goal was to figure out how to implement in the gaming environment.

I am NOT bashing Nvidia for this. I actually think ray tracing is very cool and as gaming engines start to offer more support to devs trying to use this feature it will be a huge leap in the gaming experience.

But for standard rasterization / 32-bit, it doesn’t look like Turing offers a huge leap over Pascal. You are seeing performance improvements from gddr6 over 5x.

Note that Tensors only seem to have marked improvement over dense data - such as images... exactly what gaming offers.

I used to mine. Now I compute.
#46
Hoggle
EVGA Forum Moderator
  • Total Posts : 3880
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2003/10/13 22:10:45
  • Location: Eugene, OR
  • Status: offline
  • Ribbons : 3
Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's 2019/03/20 09:05:45 (permalink)
asmodyus
Hoggle
asmodyus
And look what just happened
 
https://www.pcmag.com/new...er-gtx-10-series-cards
 
Granted it will not be as fast as the RTX, but still, I think Nvidia is starting to realize they are being called on their own bull with weak sales and now Crytek showing them up.
 
 


Wait until we see the benchmarks. You assume that the 1080ti will perform like a 2080Ti in ray tracing. We could be looking at unplayable frame rates.


I'm sure my first sentence was contrary to your assumption when I said not as fast. I know it won't be it might not be in the same ballpark we have no clue.

Also, note I'm not bashing RTX owners I'm really just bashing the price point on them and nvidia for asking the premiums there asking. Don't get me wrong if they drop down in price I will be the first to buy one.

They are beast of cards I just don't agree with the price tag on them and who knows were ray tracing will go it's been around forever but it seems Nvidia wants to make a thing and it might just be a big thing but it's really too early.


Based on the numbers I have seen in benchmarks with RTX enabled games are getting between 60-80fps with a 2080Ti which has the hardware to process it. When we go to software ran through the card I am guessing we could see well below 60fps. So far the games with RTX have been very cutting edge games so just expect things to be well below 60fps since you have hardware on the new RTX cards that are hardly keeping it at playable.!if we are talking about benchmarks of like 150fps with ray tracing on and a 2080Ti I would be far more comfortable saying the 1080Ti might handle it.

Use an Associates Code & SAVE 5% - 10% on your purchase. If you choose to use my code I want to personally say "Thank You" for using it.
 
 
#47
Gold Leader
CLASSIFIED Member
  • Total Posts : 3687
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2009/05/30 03:06:17
  • Location: Dirksland, The Netherlands
  • Status: offline
  • Ribbons : 52
Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's 2019/03/20 11:19:38 (permalink)
Another nice video coming down with hard facts:


And I know AMD also did their mistakes, but in the end I am probably not stupid enough to fall for NV's false marketing
GeForce RTX is the biggest failure since the GeForce FX of 2002, great marketing gimmick, yet quite useless in the real world, yeah yeah 3 games support it. but  they all have issues, everything is either too dark or too much light is used, the image quality is lowered to get a better fops.. what is the entire point?
Thus you pay 1.5K EUR for that? Pretty sad then...
So in the end that is what is taxing buyers, useless tech that is barely useful for 1080p gaming ina year that where 1440 & 1600p would be the norm...
 
And for those wondering why NV's GPU's are so expensive this video also by not an apple fan clearly explains it in full details, he does swear a lot, but that is obvious to the cause of it.
So no one needs to watch it if they don't want to, but this the result after how NVIDIA has been lying to people and mistreating them with careless false marketing, mainly ripping people off for products being made as cheap as possible ...

NVIDIA owns 82% of the Marketshare:


When I buy a card of 1250 a 1500 Eur I expect all games to reach 125 - 150fps+ @ 4K with all eye candy on, finding out that RTX On on a 2080 Ti won't do more than a measly 55fps at 1080p...
That was a major disappointment, and the lower end RTX cards are all too underpowered to get max use out of RTX, as Kyle Bennett from Hard OCP found out, here a lovely review about the RTX 2060
https://www.hardocp.com/article/2019/01/20/battlefield_v_nvidia_ray_tracing_rtx_2060_performance/
 
He also did one for the RTX 2070 , which also had disappointing performance when using RTX & DLSS:
https://www.hardocp.com/article/2018/12/17/battlefield_v_nvidia_ray_tracing_rtx_2070_performance/4
 
here the RTX 2080 review even this card seems to be too under powered to get the max out of RTX:
https://www.hardocp.com/article/2018/12/25/battlefield_v_nvidia_ray_tracing_rtx_2080_performance/3

As Kyle writes:
"The RTX 2070 is under-powered for NVIDIA Ray Tracing in Battlefield V. In our previous review that GPU cannot allow us to play the game at any level of DXR, even down to 1080p. The RTX 2080 is an upgrade over the RTX 2070 in terms of NVIDIA Ray Tracing performance. It seems 1080p is the sweet spot for RTX 2080 with DXR enabled in Battlefield V."
 
So yeah that is a card of around 800 a 950 euros all depending what model you  are getting...
This card is the successor of the GTX 1080 that cost me 680 Euros...
So for the performance increase compared to the price increase it's a disappointment.
 
The RTX 2080 Ti is even more expensive that card seems to do better at 1440p but that is also really it:
https://www.hardocp.com/article/2019/01/07/battlefield_v_nvidia_ray_tracing_rtx_2080_ti_performance/4
 
But anyways there you have the real numbers, even that driver fixes have been made I won't expect much in difference to what Kyle Bennett proved.
So I really hope the RTX 3000 series based on the 7nm Ampere will at least shed some light for the NVIDIA Georce RTX series, thereby if more API's like CryTek get ray tracing support without the need of hardware ray tracing, prices should drop significantly as well and that is what we need, if we'd ever want to see a healthy market again.
 
Only these these cards might be worth picking up, even though RMA's are still happening with large numbers so for my I am skipping the RTX 2000 series hereby hoping not the same mistakes will be made with it's successor the RTX 3000s series as I am speculating.
 
And if people say they get 60 to 80fps with Ray Tracing enabled what settings are you using?
Also to see some evidence would be nice to confirm it, not something I seen from those that been saying this or that, all these reviewers clearly prove otherwise that the numbers these cards punch out are below the 60fps mark, except the 2080 Ti ding around 62 fps at 1080p which is still meh for a card that goes over 1250 to 1500 euros... it's still disappointing, hence what one would need to pay for something like that, not even plausible for 90% of the gamers out there.

As CryTek's Ray Tracing Tech Demo goes, it's just a demo and not a game, but it is a good example going in the right direction,so I am expecting other game engines to do similar things.
post edited by Gold Leader - 2019/03/20 11:56:18


#48
panzlock
FTW Member
  • Total Posts : 1331
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2016/11/10 17:56:33
  • Location: Canada
  • Status: offline
  • Ribbons : 0
Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's 2019/03/20 11:41:01 (permalink)
transdogmifier
 
Again, it all comes down to "is it worth it?" to the individual.
 
I'm quite happy with the card...regardless of paying for the box, ray tracing or RGB (Which I also didn't want).




That's the attitude that allows companies to inflate prices. Just because you like/want something doesn't make the purchase a good idea. But if people keep buying things companies will inevitably increase prices knowing that people will pay. People with money don't purchase product because they should, but because they can.
 
When you purchase a VGA nowadays you have no choice for RGB. It's included and you have to pay for it, or you purchase a slightly worse product altogether. Providing less options lowers manufacturing costs and allows for product pricing inflation. Win win for the conglomerates.
post edited by panzlock - 2019/03/20 11:43:34
#49
atfrico
Omnipotent Enthusiast
  • Total Posts : 9171
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2008/05/20 16:16:06
  • Location: <--Dip, Dip, Potato Chip!-->
  • Status: offline
  • Ribbons : 22
Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's 2019/03/20 18:04:46 (permalink)
Gold Leader
Another nice video coming down with hard facts:


And I know AMD also did their mistakes, but in the end I am probably not stupid enough to fall for NV's false marketing
GeForce RTX is the biggest failure since the GeForce FX of 2002, great marketing gimmick, yet quite useless in the real world, yeah yeah 3 games support it. but  they all have issues, everything is either too dark or too much light is used, the image quality is lowered to get a better fops.. what is the entire point?
Thus you pay 1.5K EUR for that? Pretty sad then...
So in the end that is what is taxing buyers, useless tech that is barely useful for 1080p gaming ina year that where 1440 & 1600p would be the norm...
 
And for those wondering why NV's GPU's are so expensive this video also by not an apple fan clearly explains it in full details, he does swear a lot, but that is obvious to the cause of it.
So no one needs to watch it if they don't want to, but this the result after how NVIDIA has been lying to people and mistreating them with careless false marketing, mainly ripping people off for products being made as cheap as possible ...

NVIDIA owns 82% of the Marketshare:


When I buy a card of 1250 a 1500 Eur I expect all games to reach 125 - 150fps+ @ 4K with all eye candy on, finding out that RTX On on a 2080 Ti won't do more than a measly 55fps at 1080p...
That was a major disappointment, and the lower end RTX cards are all too underpowered to get max use out of RTX, as Kyle Bennett from Hard OCP found out, here a lovely review about the RTX 2060
https://www.hardocp.com/article/2019/01/20/battlefield_v_nvidia_ray_tracing_rtx_2060_performance/
 
He also did one for the RTX 2070 , which also had disappointing performance when using RTX & DLSS:
https://www.hardocp.com/article/2018/12/17/battlefield_v_nvidia_ray_tracing_rtx_2070_performance/4
 
here the RTX 2080 review even this card seems to be too under powered to get the max out of RTX:
https://www.hardocp.com/article/2018/12/25/battlefield_v_nvidia_ray_tracing_rtx_2080_performance/3

As Kyle writes:
"The RTX 2070 is under-powered for NVIDIA Ray Tracing in Battlefield V. In our previous review that GPU cannot allow us to play the game at any level of DXR, even down to 1080p. The RTX 2080 is an upgrade over the RTX 2070 in terms of NVIDIA Ray Tracing performance. It seems 1080p is the sweet spot for RTX 2080 with DXR enabled in Battlefield V."
 
So yeah that is a card of around 800 a 950 euros all depending what model you  are getting...
This card is the successor of the GTX 1080 that cost me 680 Euros...
So for the performance increase compared to the price increase it's a disappointment.
 
The RTX 2080 Ti is even more expensive that card seems to do better at 1440p but that is also really it:
https://www.hardocp.com/article/2019/01/07/battlefield_v_nvidia_ray_tracing_rtx_2080_ti_performance/4
 
But anyways there you have the real numbers, even that driver fixes have been made I won't expect much in difference to what Kyle Bennett proved.
So I really hope the RTX 3000 series based on the 7nm Ampere will at least shed some light for the NVIDIA Georce RTX series, thereby if more API's like CryTek get ray tracing support without the need of hardware ray tracing, prices should drop significantly as well and that is what we need, if we'd ever want to see a healthy market again.
 
Only these these cards might be worth picking up, even though RMA's are still happening with large numbers so for my I am skipping the RTX 2000 series hereby hoping not the same mistakes will be made with it's successor the RTX 3000s series as I am speculating.
 
And if people say they get 60 to 80fps with Ray Tracing enabled what settings are you using?
Also to see some evidence would be nice to confirm it, not something I seen from those that been saying this or that, all these reviewers clearly prove otherwise that the numbers these cards punch out are below the 60fps mark, except the 2080 Ti ding around 62 fps at 1080p which is still meh for a card that goes over 1250 to 1500 euros... it's still disappointing, hence what one would need to pay for something like that, not even plausible for 90% of the gamers out there.

As CryTek's Ray Tracing Tech Demo goes, it's just a demo and not a game, but it is a good example going in the right direction,so I am expecting other game engines to do similar things.


Yo! This is great info man, thank you for posting another outstanding post. This is worth reading and learning. I understand your point, you are not posting to bash the owners of the RTX series but to Nvidia itself for offering fail tech at premium price.

Those who abuse power, are nothing but scumbags!
 The challenge of power is how to use it and not abuse it. When you abuse it, it reverses on you and it hurts you.The abuse of power that seems to create the most unhappiness is when a person uses personal power to get ahead without regards to the welfare of others, people are obsessed with it. You can take a nice person and turn them into a slob, into an insane being, craving power, destroying anything that stands in their way.
#50
Gold Leader
CLASSIFIED Member
  • Total Posts : 3687
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2009/05/30 03:06:17
  • Location: Dirksland, The Netherlands
  • Status: offline
  • Ribbons : 52
Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's 2019/03/21 15:36:16 (permalink)
Exactly that yes, it's everyone's choice to do what every they please with their coin ( I say coin due to varied currencies  And yes I adore The Witcher 3 lol)
What NVIDIA is doing is that they are playing their customers, within the 3dfx community we call them out with this saying:

"nGreedia: The Way Customers Are Being Played"

Sadly it is the truth on what I am seeing, it hurts me seeing people know falling for their false marketing nonsense.


#51
GTXJackBauer
CLASSIFIED Member
  • Total Posts : 4725
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2010/04/19 22:23:25
  • Location: U.S.A
  • Status: offline
  • Ribbons : 25
Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's 2019/03/21 16:07:04 (permalink)
Not everyone bought an RTX strickly for RT folks.  Some of us just needed an upgrade.  Was the price high?  Sure but that still doesn't mean it wasn't forth for some.

Looking to purchase a EVGA 2080 Ti Kingpin and a EVGA KingPin Waterblock? 
 
Use this Associate Code to get 5%-10% discounts on all your EVGA purchases:  LMD3DNZM9LGK8GJ
Use this Rewards Code below when registering your EVGA products.

#52
Gold Leader
CLASSIFIED Member
  • Total Posts : 3687
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2009/05/30 03:06:17
  • Location: Dirksland, The Netherlands
  • Status: offline
  • Ribbons : 52
Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's 2019/03/21 17:09:44 (permalink)
Just 85% of the people avoided doing the upgrade where you'd only gain 35% more performance, that is from a 1080 Ti to a 2080 Ti as most reviews have proved.
While paying over 200% more? it doesn't make any sense, what so ever.

And okay I paid 1400+ Eur for Engineering Samples each, okay, but production boards costing normally 780 Eur and then going over 1500+ Eur for the replacement of a production model that is mass produced, yet having terrible RMA status?
Not going to happen, forget that, healthy minded people know better.
it's just stupidity for all words and it's plain ripping people off for tech that is barely used left alone useful.
 
But hey if you are a supporter for NV and you like them hey it's your choice ya know, all good.
 
post edited by Gold Leader - 2019/03/21 17:17:10


#53
Miguell
iCX Member
  • Total Posts : 443
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2008/04/16 14:43:51
  • Location: Portugal
  • Status: offline
  • Ribbons : 0
Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's 2019/03/23 02:09:55 (permalink)
rtx generation is overpriced.
 
you can tell what ever you want inside your own head. you can lie to yourself as much as you want to convince yourself you are right in very philosophical ways.
truth and reality is i haven't read a single kind article about this 2000 generation anywhere.
and crytek managing ray tracing without these uber expensive cards is another nail in the coffin.
 
even a freaking major pc component store here in my country did not recommend me the damn thing. gfx dying and many costumers wanting refund due to "no performance improvement in games overall"...
me and my girl where amazed at his attitude and we where like: " whoa the dude doesn't want to sell the product? he doesn't want my money?!"  " what is he doing? he needs to sell!" "is he crazy?"
 
i wanted it.. badly. i really did as i am a nvidia fan since 2002 perhaps... but the truth is.. after some web researching... that dude at the store saved me at least 1200€ (2 months salary).
 
nvidia can put the price they want on their new cards. its their right.
but that does not mean they are worth it and they can make all he propaganda they want that still is not worth it.
i am not giving and extra 350-500€ for a 2080Ti (1080Ti from 750€ to 900€)  for 20 to maybe 25% gfx gain and a brand new gfx feature that clearly is able to be available in other cheaper gfx cards and that only a few games support it and at the cost of many fps in performance.
 
will i buy nvidia in the future? sure! hell yes! (ampere generation) as it seems mems for those cards are in the making. but have i opened my eyes lately? sure i did. it hurt but i did.
post edited by Miguell - 2019/03/23 03:00:24

Case: Cooler Master Stacker 830 (BLACK)
Display: 32" AOC Q3279VWFD8 @2560x1440@75Hz
Cpu: Intel Core i7 8700
Cpu Cooler: CoolerMaster  MasterLiquid ML120L RGB
Mobo: Asus ROG Strix Z390-H Gaming
Vga: GeForce GTX 1080Ti
Ram: 32GB DDR4 G.Skill  RIPJAWS V  @3200Mhz
Sound: 2.1 sound system
Storage: 120GB SSD UV400 Kingston (OS) + 60GB SSDNow V300 Kingston + 4TB HDD Toshiba X300 + 160GB HDD Maxtor
PSU: SeaSonic M12 700W
OS: W10 Pro  64-Bit
#54
Vlada011
Omnipotent Enthusiast
  • Total Posts : 9561
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2012/03/25 00:14:05
  • Location: Belgrade-Serbia
  • Status: offline
  • Ribbons : 10
Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's 2019/03/23 03:57:20 (permalink)
Miguell
rtx generation is overpriced.
 
you can tell what ever you want inside your own head. you can lie to yourself as much as you want to convince yourself you are right in very philosophical ways.
truth and reality is i haven't read a single kind article about this 2000 generation anywhere.
and crytek managing ray tracing without these uber expensive cards is another nail in the coffin.
 
even a freaking major pc component store here in my country did not recommend me the damn thing. gfx dying and many costumers wanting refund due to "no performance improvement in games overall"...
me and my girl where amazed at his attitude and we where like: " whoa the dude doesn't want to sell the product? he doesn't want my money?!"  " what is he doing? he needs to sell!" "is he crazy?"
 
i wanted it.. badly. i really did as i am a nvidia fan since 2002 perhaps... but the truth is.. after some web researching... that dude at the store saved me at least 1200€ (2 months salary).
 
nvidia can put the price they want on their new cards. its their right.
but that does not mean they are worth it and they can make all he propaganda they want that still is not worth it.
i am not giving and extra 350-500€ for a 2080Ti (1080Ti from 750€ to 900€)  for 20 to maybe 25% gfx gain and a brand new gfx feature that clearly is able to be available in other cheaper gfx cards and that only a few games support it and at the cost of many fps in performance.
 
will i buy nvidia in the future? sure! hell yes! (ampere generation) as it seems mems for those cards are in the making. but have i opened my eyes lately? sure i did. it hurt but i did.




 
Exactly.
Same as me, single article about RTX2080 or RTX2080Ti I didn't read.
With prices NVIDIA only make to people lose interest for their new generation.

i7-5820K 4.5GHz/RVE10-EK Monoblock/Dominator Platinum 2666/ASUS GTX1080Ti Poseidon/SBZxR /Samsung 970 EVO PLus 1TB/850 EVO 1TB /EVGA 1200P2/Lian Li PC-O11WXC/EK XRES D5 Revo 100 Glass/Coolstream PE360-Noctua NF-A12x25 PWM x3
#55
ComboSlicer
Superclocked Member
  • Total Posts : 249
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2016/07/25 02:51:10
  • Status: offline
  • Ribbons : 0
Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's 2019/03/24 01:23:48 (permalink)
Tensor cores - for DLSS
RT cores - for raytracing

Tensor core is not RT core

Also half of these people wouldn’t be complaining here if 2080Ti would cost 700 dollars so it all comes down to cost.
All these “skip turing and waiting ampere” claimers would immediately change their statement if ampere would make same price increase as it was pascal > turing.
post edited by ComboSlicer - 2019/03/24 01:27:26


#56
Vlada011
Omnipotent Enthusiast
  • Total Posts : 9561
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2012/03/25 00:14:05
  • Location: Belgrade-Serbia
  • Status: offline
  • Ribbons : 10
Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's 2019/03/24 04:04:30 (permalink)
If AMD support RT through driver and NVIDIA not that's moment when many people will left NVIDIA.
Now we know, RT could work on any DX12 graphic card.

i7-5820K 4.5GHz/RVE10-EK Monoblock/Dominator Platinum 2666/ASUS GTX1080Ti Poseidon/SBZxR /Samsung 970 EVO PLus 1TB/850 EVO 1TB /EVGA 1200P2/Lian Li PC-O11WXC/EK XRES D5 Revo 100 Glass/Coolstream PE360-Noctua NF-A12x25 PWM x3
#57
Xavier Zepherious
CLASSIFIED ULTRA Member
  • Total Posts : 5669
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2010/07/04 12:53:39
  • Location: Medicine Hat ,Alberta, Canada
  • Status: offline
  • Ribbons : 15
Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's 2019/03/24 04:05:30 (permalink)
ampere won't be cheaper
 
7nm process is more expensive and gddr6 is not cheap and you be looking at 16gb-32GB for the card - so at least 25% more cost there
and if navi is good they may go for a bigger die again - which raises the cost because there is less silicon per wafer
 
ram manufacturers are reducing output to raise ram prices - sort of like opec does for oil
you have oligopolies that like to keep prices high
not enough competition anymore
 

 
   


Primes found        Affiliate Code:YN2AHK39LH
 
 
#58
ComboSlicer
Superclocked Member
  • Total Posts : 249
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2016/07/25 02:51:10
  • Status: offline
  • Ribbons : 0
Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's 2019/03/24 04:10:50 (permalink)
It was always known that DXR which was developed by Microsoft as part of dx12 api doesn’t need any hardware based raytrace accelerators at all.
It is nvidia’s approach to use hardware based accelerator we know as rt core.
Nvidia itself explained that without rt cores the turing die size should’ve been 3x larger in order to get same perf in raytracing with rasterization power.
Yes Amd can use software based acceleration but the perf will be very bad.


#59
GTXJackBauer
CLASSIFIED Member
  • Total Posts : 4725
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2010/04/19 22:23:25
  • Location: U.S.A
  • Status: offline
  • Ribbons : 25
Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's 2019/03/24 12:03:07 (permalink)
ComboSlicer
Tensor cores - for DLSS
RT cores - for raytracing

Tensor core is not RT core

Also half of these people wouldn’t be complaining here if 2080Ti would cost 700 dollars so it all comes down to cost.
All these “skip turing and waiting ampere” claimers would immediately change their statement if ampere would make same price increase as it was pascal > turing.

Xavier Zepherious
ampere won't be cheaper
 
7nm process is more expensive and gddr6 is not cheap and you be looking at 16gb-32GB for the card - so at least 25% more cost there
and if navi is good they may go for a bigger die again - which raises the cost because there is less silicon per wafer
 
ram manufacturers are reducing output to raise ram prices - sort of like opec does for oil
you have oligopolies that like to keep prices high
not enough competition anymore
 


ComboSlicer
It was always known that DXR which was developed by Microsoft as part of dx12 api doesn’t need any hardware based raytrace accelerators at all.
It is nvidia’s approach to use hardware based accelerator we know as rt core.
Nvidia itself explained that without rt cores the turing die size should’ve been 3x larger in order to get same perf in raytracing with rasterization power.
Yes Amd can use software based acceleration but the perf will be very bad.


+1 Finally some logic.  




Looking to purchase a EVGA 2080 Ti Kingpin and a EVGA KingPin Waterblock? 
 
Use this Associate Code to get 5%-10% discounts on all your EVGA purchases:  LMD3DNZM9LGK8GJ
Use this Rewards Code below when registering your EVGA products.

#60
Page: < 1234 > Showing page 2 of 4
Jump to:
  • Back to Mobile