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Hot!Project Dark Water

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markedpk
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Re: Project Dark Water 2021/07/24 13:49:47 (permalink)
Sleek and simple I like it op
#61
B0baganoosh
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Re: Project Dark Water 2021/07/24 17:43:51 (permalink)
Well, it has been a heck of a couple days.
 
I could not get my Windows install converted to GPT easily. the mbr2gpt conversion tool didn't work, so I tried to do a backup-image of the drive, wipe it in diskpart, reformat in gpt, and then restore the image to the gpt drive, which all worked correctly, but Windows would not boot. I also couldn't repair it from a Windows 10 media drive. I tried bcdboot transfer from the gpt volume to the restored volume too, as well as macrium's boot repair tool, but none of it worked. So...I reinstalled Windows on the drive after converting it to gpt in diskpart. I was able to get all my documents/files/and stuff off the backup image, so I didn't lose anything, but I did have to manual reinstall all my programs (I'm sure I'm missing plenty of apps lol, just haven't needed it yet).
 
Anyway, after all that, I was able to get my motherboard to boot with CSM disabled, EUFI mode, and Resizable BAR enabled. That all needed to be done so I could flash the vBIOS for the hybrid kit. All up and running, loop fixed and buttoned up. 
 
Card dissassembled:

 
Cleaned up with some isopropyl alcohol:

 
Mounted to the cooler:

 
Hybrid fully assembled:

 
It fits!:

 
Lots of buttoning up to do, but here's from the front with the hybrid fans showing:

 
Buttoned up, looking puuuurty (high-res if you open in new tab):

 
Couple notes: LEDs are not as bright as they appear. All blue lights, all on a very slow ~half-brightness "breathing" mode. Sitting next to it, it is very mellow. I dig it.
 
Also, GPU rad fans are now my only case input. Not pleased about this, but it is currently all I can do. Some day when I go HC or aftermarket GPU block for a future card, I will upgrade to a 280mm rad in the front. For now, I have these rad-fans always running 65%-minimum, even at zero GPU load just to keep air moving into the case for my CPU. I actually noticed considerably better adaptive-voltage mode functionality after doing a motherboard BIOS update, so the CPU is generally running much cooler than before anyway. I'd have to throw some Cinebench at it to heat it up, and honestly, that's not really how I like to spend my time haha.
 
Only scores so far I've checked after putting the hybrid kit in (I've only done minimal tweaking so far, but this might be the core's stable limit):
Port Royal: 14128
Time Spy: 19697

Edit: unfortunately, BF5 presented a "worst-case scenario." the gpu rad was dumping all sorts of heat into the case, playing the game was fine, but loading the next map?... Not so much. The CPU pegged about to 100C and I got a hard crash. I need to rig up another intake fan that isn't hot air from the GPU. I was worried about this, but didn't see a problem until hitting both GPU and CPU at the same time. Don't worry about benchmarks, just run BF5 for a couple hours and you'll find out how stable you are. In the meantime, I've dropped the CPU voltage to "auto" and I'm running ratio-limit 5.2-5.2-5.1-5.1-5-5-5-5. Hits about 78-82 during the same map loading between rounds. I might get my OC back some day, but I need fresh air coming into the case first. Also, as much as I've praised the Dark Base, the top of the case really is quite restrictive. I have seen some folks modify them by cutting out some of the plastic "sound dampening louvers" to make for more airflow. Be Quiet! Goes more for quiet than air-flow (who'd have thunk it lol), but baby needs to breath...especially with a 3080 ti in front of it.
post edited by Nike_7688 - 2021/07/25 07:30:01

Formerly Nike_7688 (please refer to post#77 here for info)

i9 11900k - EVGA Z590 FTW - EVGA RTX 3080 ti FTW3 Ultra (+Hybrid Kit) - 32GB 3733MHz CAS16 G.Skill, gear1 - WD SN850 2TB NVMe Gen4 - BeQuiet! Dark Base 900 Pro. Project Dark Water MODS RIGS post for build notes.
#62
XrayMan
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Re: Project Dark Water 2021/07/25 23:48:31 (permalink)
 
Looking good.    

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#63
rjohnson11
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Re: Project Dark Water 2021/07/26 00:05:19 (permalink)
There was a lot of work involved. The results are well worth it.

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#64
B0baganoosh
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Re: Project Dark Water 2021/07/26 08:23:40 (permalink)
OK, I have a plan for my airflow situation:
 
So this spot is empty right now. I can't fit a fan on the inside with the tubes where they are (which is why it is empty). Also, I've been a big fan of the dust filters on this case as they really do help keep it out of there, so I need to solve that problem too. I'm going to get something like this (not sure exactly which kind):

 
 
 
=>And here's the plan, super complicated, but I'm just going to mount the fan...Outside the case. I know...I know, it really is "outside the box" thinking, but it is so crazy it might just work (why I didn't think to do this the other day, I don't know lol).
 
For now, there's a PCI-e slot filler plate at the bottom of the case that is below the PSU-shroud that you can't even see from the side of the case. I'm going to take that off, and run the fan wire in through there to the controller behind the motherboard. I might cut a notch in that piece of metal, file it smooth, and touch up the raw metal black and put it back in, but I'll see how this works first.
 
I have the regular 140mm Be Quiet! Silent Wings 3 fans and the 120mm high-speed fans. the 120mm high-speed move much more air, so I'm going to start with one of those. Also, if the single 120mm doesn't quite cut it (with 3.37mmH2O and 73.33 CFM), I can always buy a Noctua NF-A14 iPPC PWM fan (with 4.18mmH2O and 107CFM) and really start blasting the cool air in. I figure one of those without a heat-soaked radiator in front of it should really push some good air into the box. If that doesn't work...well...I have a 52W 120mm fan...but it isn't plugging into the motherboard or any fan controller I'm aware of (4.4A)...and I don't want to sit near it when it's on...or even in the same room with it lol. Let's hope it doesn't come to that:

I'm also not going to use the little 8W 60mm jet engine next to it lol (both from a scrap bin at work).
 

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Formerly Nike_7688 (please refer to post#77 here for info)

i9 11900k - EVGA Z590 FTW - EVGA RTX 3080 ti FTW3 Ultra (+Hybrid Kit) - 32GB 3733MHz CAS16 G.Skill, gear1 - WD SN850 2TB NVMe Gen4 - BeQuiet! Dark Base 900 Pro. Project Dark Water MODS RIGS post for build notes.
#65
B0baganoosh
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Re: Project Dark Water 2021/07/28 07:28:33 (permalink)
I haven't taken new pictures yet, but I got the fan installed in the rear. I also cut some of the plastic louvers out of the top panel (inside, you can't even see them) to allow more airflow. Finally, I taped off some of the holes around the 420mm Rad so that heat from the top of the case isn't circulating back down into the main section of the case and has to come out of the exhaust ports.
 
I could then run 5.1GHz all-core in CB R23 without exceeding 78°C on any cores. So I ramped it back up to a 5.3(1-2cores), 5.2 (3-7 cores), 5.1 (8 cores). I found that this doesn't go past the low-to-mid 80's with my current setup, but I haven't tried BF5 again yet. That will apparently be the real test. It seems 5.1GHz all-core generally runs nice and cool, so whenever it has an 8-core load, it goes there and that's fine for me. If I need to run a CPU only benchmark for some reason, I can run 5.3GHz all-core still, I just can't do it while the GPU is also dumping out 400W of heat in front of the CPU rad.
 
Also, The improvements were good enough and I was only able to open a couple of the louver panels in the top of the case. So I'm wondering if I can borrow a dremel tool from a friend and open up a few more. I got that idea from someone else on the web who did a similar thing to their panel. They also experimented with removing the sound dampening foam. I'm not willing to go that far, but I figured some extra airflow allows the fans to not spin up as loud normally anyway. It defeats the purpose of having a "quiet" case if all the fans have to spin at 100% to overcome the pressure the case's air louvers create. I'll drop in some pictures when I get a chance.
 
I'm not sure if anybody is reading these little posts lol, but I figured if anybody else wants to make water cooling in the Dark Base Pro 900 work, the information might be helpful.

Formerly Nike_7688 (please refer to post#77 here for info)

i9 11900k - EVGA Z590 FTW - EVGA RTX 3080 ti FTW3 Ultra (+Hybrid Kit) - 32GB 3733MHz CAS16 G.Skill, gear1 - WD SN850 2TB NVMe Gen4 - BeQuiet! Dark Base 900 Pro. Project Dark Water MODS RIGS post for build notes.
#66
bobmitch
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Re: Project Dark Water 2021/07/29 05:49:16 (permalink)
The level of detail!!!  Great job on the rig...

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#67
rjohnson11
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Re: Project Dark Water 2021/08/10 02:07:44 (permalink)
Made a comment in your mods rigs page

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B0baganoosh
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Re: Project Dark Water 2021/08/11 12:59:35 (permalink)
So I took the advice of some other folks (post#14) on the internet with this case and opened some of the vent holes with a Dremel tool. I didn't go quite as far as that guy, but I took out about half of the "L-shaped air restrictors". Some of it looked a bit structural on the plastic piece, so I didn't take them all. I may revisit this again and go for the rest of them if I can find a better bit for the Dremel tool. It may also be helpful to take the metal mesh off and hit them from the outside. I did as little disassembly as possible while doing the modification.
 
So you can't tell from the outside, but it definitely runs cooler now. 
 
In pursuit of perfection, I will at some point test some alternate CPU paste methods and pastes to see if I can build on this improvement. 

Formerly Nike_7688 (please refer to post#77 here for info)

i9 11900k - EVGA Z590 FTW - EVGA RTX 3080 ti FTW3 Ultra (+Hybrid Kit) - 32GB 3733MHz CAS16 G.Skill, gear1 - WD SN850 2TB NVMe Gen4 - BeQuiet! Dark Base 900 Pro. Project Dark Water MODS RIGS post for build notes.
#69
R00thead
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Re: Project Dark Water 2021/08/13 02:21:55 (permalink)
Have you considered putting the pc on a shelf to clear up some desk space? Seems a bit cramped from the original photos.
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B0baganoosh
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Re: Project Dark Water 2021/08/13 07:46:35 (permalink)
R00thead
Have you considered putting the pc on a shelf to clear up some desk space? Seems a bit cramped from the original photos.



No room for a shelf. Also, I like to look inside regularly and go "I did this"...also, it's my first custom water loop so now I have incentive to look inside and go "yup, still no leaks" lol. When you sit at the desk, it doesn't feel crowded, at least to me.

Formerly Nike_7688 (please refer to post#77 here for info)

i9 11900k - EVGA Z590 FTW - EVGA RTX 3080 ti FTW3 Ultra (+Hybrid Kit) - 32GB 3733MHz CAS16 G.Skill, gear1 - WD SN850 2TB NVMe Gen4 - BeQuiet! Dark Base 900 Pro. Project Dark Water MODS RIGS post for build notes.
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driam
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Re: Project Dark Water 2021/08/16 12:36:47 (permalink)
I was just going to suggest the same idea. You could in the green place a high CFM fan like a Noctua industrial fan, and switch the GPU to pull from the case. If you are feeling very adventurous you could cut a clean hole into the side panel, mount another fan to directly draw in air to the center of the case. Looks good so far! 
 
 
You can not go wrong with Noctua industrial fans. I have 12 of them on my radiators and they are very silent.... not at 100% but most of the time lol.  
https://noctua.at/en/products/fan/industrial
 

 
If you decide to go the side panel fan route, you could print a template, or use a 140MM fan as a template for the 4 holes. Then from there cut the middle out. Mount the fan right to the panel, then on the outside portion of the fan mount one of those filters. If you have access to a 3D printer and software you could make a nice encapsulation for the fan to mount to (this is what I am doing for my case). I can make a universal 3D file and share it, you just need a way to print it.
 
post edited by driam - 2021/08/16 12:45:08
#72
B0baganoosh
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Re: Project Dark Water 2021/08/16 13:50:43 (permalink)
driam
I was just going to suggest the same idea. You could in the green place a high CFM fan like a Noctua industrial fan, and switch the GPU to pull from the case. If you are feeling very adventurous you could cut a clean hole into the side panel, mount another fan to directly draw in air to the center of the case. Looks good so far! 
 
 
You can not go wrong with Noctua industrial fans. I have 12 of them on my radiators and they are very silent.... not at 100% but most of the time lol.  
https://noctua.at/en/products/fan/industrial
 




I have done the green-box fan. That is working much better. I usually prefer positive pressure over negative (more intake than exhaust), and the only way I can add to what I have is to put a fan here:

About here^ (they have the whole setup flipped, but the panel is the same).
 
They actually have a fan cutout there on the side panel and you could technically fit 2 fans. One of them would just be blowing directly into the cables on the other side of the motherboard tray, which is not helpful, but the forward one would blow in basically right behind my reservoir. I actually played with trying to get a fan there, but I'd have to mount it outside the panel, not inside where it is intended to go. Then I'd have two fans on the outside of my case lol. Also, there's some filter material there, but if I put a fan on the outside, I'll need some of those finger-guards I just suggested you get for yours. I'd also have to get a little creative again with getting the fan wire into the case. I think if I cut a little hole in some of the filter material in that side panel, I could do it pretty easily, I just don't want it to look too bad. I think I can use 4 normal fan-screws from inside the panel to mount it, then 4 more to mount the finger-guard. The only downside is that the filter would be sandwiched between the fan and panel and I'd have to take the screws out any time I want to clean it. Alternatively, I could just get another one of the metal mesh filters like I put on the back (see pictures above somewhere), and maybe figure out how to open up the other filter. The only issue I have with the other fan-spot on the panel is that there are so many cables back there that they current press into that area of the side-panel. That "be quiet" 
 
I have some extra of these fans, which actually compete well with the black ippc-2000 Noctuas. I have considered swapping the green-box fan out with one of these bad Larrys. So, if I add the side-panel intake, I probably could switch around the GPU fans and have all my rads exhaust. I have noticed that the CPU only struggles now when the GPU is putting tons of heat in the box, so this would definitely help with that. I'm just not sure how well these EVGA fans like to be mounted backwards with their LED ring design, but then again, I just realized that I have enough of the 120mm SW3 high-speed fans to use one on the side-panel, two on the GPU rad, and then I'd have to buy one of those monster 3000rpm Noctuas to put as my rear-intake. I can currently crank up the 2200RPM Bequiet fan and barely hear it back there.
 
So I'd just have to *grumble grumble* buy another fan and 140mm filter for the rear, move the 120mm fan and filter from the back to the side and modify that side filter (and rearrange wires inside), then evaluate if the EVGA rad-fans are ok being mounted LED-ring towards the rad for a pull-config or put my be quiet 2200rpm fans on there and crank them up a bit....oh, and those 120mm fans I have are 3-pin, so if I use them for GPU, I need to move the two case fans over to motherboard headers, plug the rad fans into my fan-hub, and plug the fan-hub into the gpu's fan-cable for PWM control (because I can plug in several PWM and 3-pin fans into the same fan hub that came with my case).
 
This is another "simple" project that isn't so simple...but I do like it, and I think it might just be worth it.
 
Edit: I was just thinking...I may even have enough room to put two of the Be Quiet fans on the front of the radiator in "pull" and one of the stock hybrid fans inside the case in "push" right next to my reservoir. I may hold it up there and see if it'll look too crowded before I decide, but I believe that is an option...and then I guess I can take the dust filter off the front of the case, as in exhaust it'd just be slowing down the airflow. Then I can close the front door of my case again (its been a while lol)...and that would also put more blue LEDs inside the case! lol so much for my non-RGB build...look at all the lights in this thing. sheesh.
 
Also, stole this from another thread about his 3090, but it applies and I love it:
mizzer
 The air from the GPU rad is too spicy.

post edited by Nike_7688 - 2021/08/17 12:55:27

Formerly Nike_7688 (please refer to post#77 here for info)

i9 11900k - EVGA Z590 FTW - EVGA RTX 3080 ti FTW3 Ultra (+Hybrid Kit) - 32GB 3733MHz CAS16 G.Skill, gear1 - WD SN850 2TB NVMe Gen4 - BeQuiet! Dark Base 900 Pro. Project Dark Water MODS RIGS post for build notes.
#73
driam
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Re: Project Dark Water 2021/08/17 18:26:49 (permalink)
Nike_7688
This is another "simple" project that isn't so simple...but I do like it, and I think it might just be worth it.
 

 
Most of the time in life, anything worth doing is never easy, but worth it. 
 
That silent wings 3 fan does look great! 2000+ RPM and only 28.6dB.
 
Here is another idea (may be a stretch but just throwing it out there lol)
 
1. Remove the CD rom bays in red. IF needed make a hole for exhaust in green.

2. Mount a divider marked in blue. Add a fan at an angle pointing up (purple). This could in theory take much of the heat from the GPU radiator and direct it out the "purple' fan. Also heat will rise, thus you may not have to worry about exhaust going back into the GPU radiator. Worst case add fins to the exhaust area to direct the hot air upwards. 

 
#74
B0baganoosh
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Re: Project Dark Water 2021/08/18 07:49:21 (permalink)
There you go again, giving me more ideas lol (thanks for all the help by the way!).
 
This is Plan A (slight modification from what you first suggested):
 
The rear (picture-left) green box will be filled with the 140mm Noctua NF-14 ippc-3000RPM fan. That thing can make a metric *expletive*-ton of pressure and airflow. I'll give it a fan-curve related to the CPU temps.
 
I will then add the far-side green-box fan that goes into the side-panel and move one of the EVGA fans to the inside of the GPU rad next to the reservoir (if it fits). I'll either put the other EVGA hybrid kit fan on the exhaust-side of the rad (facing the right of the picture) so that the push/pull pair are the same, or just use two of the be quiet! SW3 120mm fans on the "pull" side of the rad. All 4 of these fans (the new intake, and the 3 rad-fans (can't fit a bottom internal fan there)) will then run over to the fan-hub, which I'll plug into the GPU's fan cable. I could use the card's aux-port, but I think it's the same control in PX1, and I can just use that to control all of these fans, even though some are PWM and some are voltage-control because a PWM input to the hub and it just runs all the fans at that % of max. I don't know if mix-matching the rad-fans in push/pull is bad, so that's why I might just put both EVGA fans on the top of the rad in push/pull and then the different fan on the bottom in "pull".
 
After this, I'll have considerably more fresh air going into the case and all the heat exhausting, which should definitely be a huge improvement. I don't hate the baffle idea, other than I don't think I'm capable of making one in any way that won't look...just terrible. So that is issue 1. Issue 2 is that the pink fan you've drawn can only fit (due to how the mounting-slots for the rad are located) about a 92mm-max sized fan. I'd have to rely on maybe one screw and then zip-ties or something to hold it in place and I don't think it would fit at an angle. While I have seen some folks modify the front door of this case and put mesh or something that looks nice in all the holes they cut, I don't think I'd be able to pull it off in a manner that actually looks good. I think what I need to do now is figure out what the most optimal setup is for this case without too many more cuts and modifications and then ride it out for a couple years. I feel like if I cut into this case a bunch on the outside, it won't look "clean" anymore and having the sleek dark "clean" exterior was part of the theme I wanted. I have certainly learned a lot from this case and this project about what I want in a future case. Be Quiet has some really good quality parts, but this thing was definitely designed for quiet and not air-flow. I knew that to some extent and was hoping for a nice balance between the two...not exactly the balance I was hoping for, but until I put a 3080 ti in the system it was pretty manageable.
 
Next time, I'll probably be looking at something more similar to the Corsair 7000 Airflow version. Be Quiet!'s new Silent Base 802 has panels that opt for a lot more airflow and I hope they someday come out with a new "biggn" like the 900 pro v2 that is geared more towards airflow, or at least has that option. I am definitely at a love-hate situation with this case as every part of it is rugged and well thought-out, but it was also thought-out for a slightly different purpose lol. So it's mostly my fault for wanting to use it differently than they intended, but I think some slight changes could make it pretty epic. For example, if they put a bunch more ventilation in the attic, it would solve many problems.
 

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Formerly Nike_7688 (please refer to post#77 here for info)

i9 11900k - EVGA Z590 FTW - EVGA RTX 3080 ti FTW3 Ultra (+Hybrid Kit) - 32GB 3733MHz CAS16 G.Skill, gear1 - WD SN850 2TB NVMe Gen4 - BeQuiet! Dark Base 900 Pro. Project Dark Water MODS RIGS post for build notes.
#75
RadicalRaid
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Re: Project Dark Water 2021/08/18 13:45:27 (permalink)
I love it! Simple and elegant.
#76
B0baganoosh
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Re: Project Dark Water 2021/08/23 08:12:34 (permalink)
NEWS:
#1, this is the only thread that I really "own" per-se, so Hear ye Hear ye, from thence forth, I shall be known as B0baganoosh (or "Boba" or "Bob" for short if you prefer). I have wanted to change my name forever, but didn't know it was an option until I happened across a thread that said "just email the webmaster" lol. Nike_7688 is attached to an old email I had in high school back when I was playing sports more and thought Nike soccer cleats were just the coolest. As an adult (I'm in my mid-30's now lol), I'm not fond of that business's practices or beliefs and all that, so I really have no desire to associate myself with them. My gamer tag has been Bobaganoosh, B0baganoosh, or something similar for over 17 years so it seemed like the best option here.
 
#2: cooling improvements to this build.
Monster Noctua fan installed. It is the NF-A14 ippc-3000RPM. It is...intense. And loud. I have it turned down most of the time, but when the CPU actually wants lots of air through the rad, it gives all the air it could want. This is in the rear, pulling in fresh air through a filter:

 
Peaking in behind the reservoir is a new side-panel intake:

It is a Silent Wings 3 120mm high-speed (2200RPM) fan. Moves plenty of air. It is linked with the GPU rad fans for speed.
 
Speaking of GPU Radiator:


She's now in exhaust mode! Also, she's push-pulling on top and pulling on the bottom (another 120mm SW3 fan). So it basically has it's own intake air feeding it and exhausts all the heat out the front. Most of the time, I can keep the door closed if I want some peace and quiet, but I opened it up to show you folks what's going on there. While the reservoir is right in front of the top intake fan, the curvature of the reservoir means that most of the fan is unrestricted and putting your hand in front of the exhaust shows there's a ton of airflow there.
 
In general, the GPU is running about 1° hotter in Time Spy with this configuration than before because it's now pulling air from inside the case instead of from outside. However, that heat is no longer feeding the CPU, so that is now running much cooler under full load. I think I have some more voltage tweaking to do to see if I can get it to run a pinch cooler. I don't really know how to set the v-droop properly, so perhaps if I can get a lower vcore setting with the proper vdroop setting, I'll be able to turn down the core a bit and have better temps.
 
The only bummer I have run into currently is that Precision X1 doesn't get a tachometer feedback from the fan hub that now has all the GPU rad fans plugged into it. Because of that, it just outputs 100% PWM signal (even though it says something lower on the fan curve) and the fans go to 100%. So I've currently removed the fan hub's control cable from the GPU fan cable and have it plugged into the motherboard running at 65% constant. It isn't too obnoxious and keeps the GPU plenty cool (56-58° OC'd during a time spy stress test). I am assuming the issue is because PX1 doesn't see the tach speed. Before Windows boots, the fans are running much slower, so it does seem to be a PX1 related issue. I will see if I can come up with a way to run the fans off the hub, but pass one of the EVGA fan's tach lines over to the GPU's fan-1 cable while also running the hub's input connector to the cable. The cable is a splitter, one of the connectors not having a tach line at all, so I can probably plug the hub cable into that, but then I need a splitter cable that has two male-ends, one of which only having a tach line. so that the fan can be ran off the hub, but give it's tach signal back to the GPU so that it doesn't just crank it up to 11 (which is loud and unnecessary lol). I'm no stranger to soldering and heat-shrinking cables, so I might just buy some pre-crimped cables and cut/splice to get what I need. Of course, if there's some sort of software setting or override that doesn't require all that rigmarole, I'd appreciate the heads up!
 
Edit: I have started a post in the PX1 section to try and get some help with the fan header thing (if there are other things to be done) with some sketches of the issue and a solution I've come up with so far (needs testing though).
post edited by B0baganoosh - 2021/09/15 06:00:00

Formerly Nike_7688 (please refer to post#77 here for info)

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#77
B0baganoosh
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Re: Project Dark Water 2021/08/26 08:10:05 (permalink)
Some success. At first it didn't seem to work, but after making sure the connectors were seated well and rebooting, it seems to be working great. Here's the latest sketch:
 
my hub looks like this:

That's why it was a bit tricky to get all the fans working together, half PWM, half voltage-controlled (the "other fans"/Silent Wings 3 high-speed 3-pin versions). Anyway, it's all up and running now.

I think the only thing left on my list to do at this point is redo the paste on my CPU mount. I don't have to...but I think I can do better than what's there. It isn't a rush though, so it may have to wait until I get bored some day.

Formerly Nike_7688 (please refer to post#77 here for info)

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#78
B0baganoosh
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Re: Project Dark Water 2021/09/03 06:57:04 (permalink)
Captain's log: the 3rd of September, year of Jimbob.
 
Houston, we have a problem. I was just getting happy with the performance of everything and then my POST indicators started failing.
 
So, I had to remove the CPU and take a picture of the socket to prove there's no damage (there's no damage) and that gave me a good excuse to check my mount and re-paste.
Yikes:

 
I mean...I've seen worse, but the whole left side is not making good contact. This was done with the "vertical line" method, which honestly looks like it made for adequate paste distribution, but it appears the right side was much tighter than the left, creating uneven pressure and maybe part of the temperature problems I was having. Most of the heat in this thing is a vertical line right in the center, but the better contact you have with the whole IHS the better.
 
Went back to a blob:

My desire to document it may have been problematic as the KPx is pretty soft and started drooping a bit (no, I didn't lay the case down). In any case, this is temporary as now I'll wait for the cross-ship z590 motherboard to get here and I can do a bigger teardown.
 
So far, the re-paste and mount has resulted in some pretty good temperatures. So I think I've settled on the big blob method for this CPU, but I'm still not sold on the KPx. I think I'll try the kryonaut on the re-install, as I have some of that too.

Formerly Nike_7688 (please refer to post#77 here for info)

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#79
rjohnson11
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Re: Project Dark Water 2021/09/03 09:21:55 (permalink)
Hopefully the Kryonaut will fare better

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Apollo1321
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Re: Project Dark Water 2021/09/08 08:46:32 (permalink)
I will only use KPx, still the best paste I have ever used. Always consistent, but then again I also always spread it out myself that way I know its pretty much even every time. But that also stems from doing LN2. I see your using the optimus block, I have the nickel/plexi, And my god I love it. The only thing is the mounting isn't fool proof. So I just set the block down on the cpu, then press down on the block in the middle between the two fittings. Spin the thumb screws down until they stop spinning on their own. Once all four have down that, start to snug them 1/4 turn at a time in a cross pattern. Do that till your block can no longer move/spin on top of the cpu. I have almost perfect mounts every time doing it that way, just a suggestion for you :)
 
Your build is looking good! I did a complete rebuild of my 9900k and 2080 Ti water loop and added a 3rd 360 rad due to a slime type growth in everything. But of course I failed in completely cleaning out and killing the growth in the radiators so it all came back. But instead of trying to clean the rads, I'm going to just have to buy 3 new ones, sigh.
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B0baganoosh
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Re: Project Dark Water 2021/09/08 09:10:13 (permalink)
Apollo1321
I will only use KPx, still the best paste I have ever used. Always consistent, but then again I also always spread it out myself that way I know its pretty much even every time. But that also stems from doing LN2. I see your using the optimus block, I have the nickel/plexi, And my god I love it. The only thing is the mounting isn't fool proof. So I just set the block down on the cpu, then press down on the block in the middle between the two fittings. Spin the thumb screws down until they stop spinning on their own. Once all four have down that, start to snug them 1/4 turn at a time in a cross pattern. Do that till your block can no longer move/spin on top of the cpu. I have almost perfect mounts every time doing it that way, just a suggestion for you :)
 
Your build is looking good! I did a complete rebuild of my 9900k and 2080 Ti water loop and added a 3rd 360 rad due to a slime type growth in everything. But of course I failed in completely cleaning out and killing the growth in the radiators so it all came back. But instead of trying to clean the rads, I'm going to just have to buy 3 new ones, sigh.




Thanks for the tip. I tried to do exactly that, but I think I must have slipped when trying to find the snug-point on the first thumb-screw (/nut? I mean...the screw part sticks out of the board, so I think it's a nut). That must have offset it a little and even though I did gradual cross-pattern tightening, it must have started bad. It felt much better this time and my temps seem to be a little bit lower and less jumpy. It isn't huge or anything, but it seems a little better. Honestly, the best I've seen so far was from the blob method with Prolimatech PK-3. I've never used Kryonaut before, but I have some, so I may try that when I remount for my new motherboard. If I don't like it, it'll be back to the PK3. I don't really keep track of the ambient temperature in the room during any of my tests, so it is sometimes difficult to tell which paste/application is best lol.

Formerly Nike_7688 (please refer to post#77 here for info)

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austin86
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Re: Project Dark Water 2021/09/08 09:27:25 (permalink)
B0baganoosh
CPU block came in:



Holy cow that's some surface area in that block. I don't think I ever seen that much in a modem block before.
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mjmonckton
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Re: Project Dark Water 2021/09/11 18:05:50 (permalink)
Looks Good!

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B0baganoosh
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Re: Project Dark Water 2021/10/08 07:13:25 (permalink)
An update on thermal paste from post 79 above.
 
Disassembled my system to swap motherboards (due to POST LED failure RMA). My mount was as close to perfect as it gets. I forgot to take a picture, but paste distribution looked nice and even. SO, I decided why not, I'll try some other pastes with the same method.
 
I got the new motherboard in, cleaned everything up and installed Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut. This is the older style (gray colored, not pink), and my temps were about 10°C higher than the last time I tested things. I think ambient was a couple degrees warmer, so let's call it 7-8° warmer for the thermal grizzly than the KPx.
 
So that wouldn't do. I took the block off and found that yet again, paste distribution was amazing (so the mount was good). I tried to replicate my original and so far best results, with a blob of Prolimatech PK-3 nano. This dropped the temperatures back down to within a couple degrees of my previous test, which again, I think is due to ambient being a little higher. I had just been running my dehumidifier right next to the PC (it is a basement...I turn the thing off while I game, but it was on for a good chunk of the time I was doing the board swap. I eventually turned it off because it was getting too hot down there lol, so I know it was warmer than the last time I tested, I just don't know how much warmer).
 
So at the end of the day, I can say that I've had my best results with the blob in the center (not a "grain of rice" or a vertical line over the internal die), and also can say that I've had about identical results with Prolimatech PK-3 nano and Kingpin KPx. My test setup is not repeatable enough to say one is better than the other, but personally I think they're both fantastic. PK-3 nano is much more viscous and creates less of a mess because of that. KPx can drip/run quickly, so if you're installing with the PC in the upright position, you have to move fast lol. 
 
To put it all together, I'll add to this list I started a while ago. Tests I've done:
1: Using PK-3 with a big blob gave me really good numbers. This was also only tested on Distilled water, which shouldn't make much of a difference, but is worth noting.
I thought it was spikey, which could have been indicative of a bad mount (too much paste) so...
2: I tried the "spread it out manually" method. I think I utter-failed at this. I didn't have a good spatula, so I tried to fake it with something I'm too embarrassed to even describe specifically, but it looked pretty good before I put the block on. Worst test numbers I've seen.
3: I tried a line (think: elongated grain of rice) of KPx. It came with my block, so I figured I had it and may as well try it. This is what I've left on there currently, and now has the EK Premix running in the loop. It's worse than test 1, but much better than test 2.
4: I tried a blob of KPx. This gave good results. Doesn't seem quite as good as test 1, but this could be due to ambient differences and that I've now added a 3080ti to the system, which now has different airflow because of this.
5: Checked and repeated test 4 due to uneven mount pressure. It was interesting that test 4 performed as well as it did considering how uneven pressure is (see post #79). The re-test of this was only marginally better (not really noticeable in any way I could test).
6: Blob of Kryonaut. This was ~7-8 degrees warmer than test 4/5. No thanks.
7: Blob of Prolimatech PK-3. This is performing very much like 4/5. I'll keep this for the foreseeable future unless some reason to re-mount comes up.
post edited by B0baganoosh - 2021/10/08 07:16:53

Formerly Nike_7688 (please refer to post#77 here for info)

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#85
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