EVGA

Power-gulping cryptocurrency miners now charged higher fees in New York

Author
rjohnson11
EVGA Forum Moderator
  • Total Posts : 102262
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2004/10/05 12:44:35
  • Location: Netherlands
  • Status: offline
  • Ribbons : 84
2018/03/17 14:33:12 (permalink)
https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/new-york-charging-higher-prices-cryptocurrency/
 
Companies and individuals digging for digital gold are consuming large amounts of power, which takes a toll on local power companies distributing electricity to residential homes and businesses. The commission notes that a single cryptocurrency mining “customer” can consume 33 percent of the local power company’s total load.

AMD Ryzen 9 7950X,  Corsair Mp700 Pro M.2, 64GB Corsair Dominator Titanium DDR5  X670E Steel Legend, MSI RTX 4090 Associate Code: H5U80QBH6BH0AXF. I am NOT an employee of EVGA

#1

12 Replies Related Threads

    Cool GTX
    EVGA Forum Moderator
    • Total Posts : 30983
    • Reward points : 0
    • Joined: 2010/12/12 14:22:25
    • Location: Folding for the Greater Good
    • Status: offline
    • Ribbons : 122
    Re: Power-gulping cryptocurrency miners now charged higher fees in New York 2018/03/17 14:47:00 (permalink)
    Sound like a reasonable move
     
     
    (excerpt from link by OP)
     
    "The large power consumption requires supplemental power for residents and other companies, thus driving up cost. This is where the demand comes in to create a new tariff targeting digital coin miners."

    Learn your way around the EVGA Forums, Rules & limits on new accounts Ultimate Self-Starter Thread For New Members

    I am a Volunteer Moderator - not an EVGA employee

    https://foldingathome.org -->become a citizen scientist and contribute your compute power to help fight global health threats

    RTX Project EVGA X99 FTWK Nibbler EVGA X99 Classified EVGA 3080Ti FTW3 Ultra


    #2
    Chris21010
    FTW Member
    • Total Posts : 1587
    • Reward points : 0
    • Joined: 2006/05/03 07:26:39
    • Status: offline
    • Ribbons : 9
    Re: Power-gulping cryptocurrency miners now charged higher fees in New York 2018/03/17 18:36:14 (permalink)
    all the more reason for people who build these large farms to look to buying their own power generation. like in russia where an entrepreneur bought two coal powered electrical power plants for their mining farms. if you own the power you do not care what its being sold for elsewhere.


    #3
    QuintLeo
    SSC Member
    • Total Posts : 946
    • Reward points : 0
    • Joined: 2016/04/16 23:05:09
    • Status: offline
    • Ribbons : 3
    Re: Power-gulping cryptocurrency miners now charged higher fees in New York 2018/03/22 02:44:01 (permalink)
    rjohnson11
    https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/new-york-charging-higher-prices-cryptocurrency/
     
    Companies and individuals digging for digital gold are consuming large amounts of power, which takes a toll on local power companies distributing electricity to residential homes and businesses. The commission notes that a single cryptocurrency mining “customer” can consume 33 percent of the local power company’s total load.




    That's one TINY power company if a few megawatts OR PROBABLY LESS is 33% of the total load for that power company.
     
    Also, most of New York State isn't exactly "low cost" power, though some of the hydro-heavy areas ARE cheap (and probably getting fed from Labrador or Quebec).
     
    On the other hand, they seem to be following the lead of Chelan County WA on that "high density" concept, though they're not QUITE as stringent on the power level involved - and Chelan county IS  part of the "land of lowest cost power" in the US (along with Douglas and Grant counties next door) DESPITE their recent "high density" power rate enactment.
     
    post edited by QuintLeo - 2018/03/22 02:47:18

    Now that vorsholk has stopped his abuse, I'm returning to folding.
     I no longer MOO due to abuses by certain "whales" in the Gridcoin community - so I now work the Distributed.net project directly again.
     
    #4
    ipkha
    CLASSIFIED Member
    • Total Posts : 2308
    • Reward points : 0
    • Joined: 2015/02/10 21:01:40
    • Location: Indiana
    • Status: offline
    • Ribbons : 6
    Re: Power-gulping cryptocurrency miners now charged higher fees in New York 2018/03/22 18:07:25 (permalink)
    They have to charge the miners for the expense in getting them power. Generally areas of hydro are allocated a percentage of the output and can't draw over a certain amount and the inbound lines aren't designed to allow tons extra that a crytomining operation would need. Hydro and Solar power have significant limitations on this regard and doubling a power co-ops draw can have huge cost implications.


    #5
    QuintLeo
    SSC Member
    • Total Posts : 946
    • Reward points : 0
    • Joined: 2016/04/16 23:05:09
    • Status: offline
    • Ribbons : 3
    Re: Power-gulping cryptocurrency miners now charged higher fees in New York 2018/03/23 12:35:19 (permalink)
    Normally areas with a lot of hydropower are shipping significant amounts of it OUT to other areas as they don't have enough "local demand" or even close.
    100% the case with the big Columbia River power production dams (especially the Grand Coulee, probably 85-90% of the output of THAT dam is sent out to areas over 100 miles away, some of it goes several HUNDRED miles down into California) - I don't think ANY of those dams have 40% capacity demand in their local area with ONE exception (the one that fed the big Alcoa aluminum plant near Wenatchee WA, when Alcoa was RUNNING that plant - and Alcoa is STILL paying a lot of the cost for that dam as part of their long-term very cheap power contract with Chelan PUD even though that plant has been shut down for years) and *possibly* the Bonneville dam (which is ballpark 40 miles from Portland) as a second exception.
    Also noted in many articles to be the case with that monster Three Gorges Dam in China (largest installed power capacity dam in the WORLD), as the "local industrial development" China expected to feed with that dam has been a lot slower to get built up than the Chinese government expected when they build that huge thing.
     
    The down side of Hydropower - it's almost never able to be where it's really needed in large quantities, and where it IS available in large quantities is rarely high demand areas.
     

    Now that vorsholk has stopped his abuse, I'm returning to folding.
     I no longer MOO due to abuses by certain "whales" in the Gridcoin community - so I now work the Distributed.net project directly again.
     
    #6
    deathlokke
    Superclocked Member
    • Total Posts : 123
    • Reward points : 0
    • Joined: 2007/02/25 17:43:55
    • Status: offline
    • Ribbons : 0
    Re: Power-gulping cryptocurrency miners now charged higher fees in New York 2018/03/23 13:13:34 (permalink)
    QuintLeo
    That's one TINY power company if a few megawatts OR PROBABLY LESS is 33% of the total load for that power company.



    There are cryptominers using 100MW+, and continue to grow; these are companies in the US. That's far more than "a few megawatts".
    #7
    QuintLeo
    SSC Member
    • Total Posts : 946
    • Reward points : 0
    • Joined: 2016/04/16 23:05:09
    • Status: offline
    • Ribbons : 3
    Re: Power-gulping cryptocurrency miners now charged higher fees in New York 2018/03/23 13:53:41 (permalink)
    There are ZERO Cryptocoin operations in the US OR NORTH AMERICA that are using 100+ MW - the LARGEST to date would be MegaBigPower/GigaWatt and the're still working to get to the 30MW range total for ALL of their farm locations combined.
     
    https://news.bitcoin.com/bitfury-is-building-the-largest-bitcoin-mining-operation-in-north-america/ will only hit 60 MW when fully in place, and Salcidio group is talking 42 MW when they're fully built out late this summer (3 locations in the Wenatchee area) but they're probably going to need longer than they plan based on feedback about Gigawatt's slower-than-planned growth and WHY.
     
    The only INTERNATIONAL operations in that range were one Bitfury farm in Eastern Europe (announced, not built out all the way yet last time I checked) and *PROBABLY* Bitmain's big farm in China.
    LW.COM might be in that ballpark for the combined total of their farms, but not on any farm in a single area.
     
    KNC was supposed to be close to that range on their farm in Sweden if they had ever gotten it built out fully, but they went out of business before they got that far.
     
    Very few US cryptocoin operations exceed 5 MW, most are quite a bit smaller - I can probably count the number in the 5 MW + range on my hands, and I doubt I need all the fingers - and I can probably DRIVE to all but 1 or 2 of them in a bit over an hour and in at least 2 cases less than a HALF hour.
     
     
    post edited by QuintLeo - 2018/03/23 14:05:44

    Now that vorsholk has stopped his abuse, I'm returning to folding.
     I no longer MOO due to abuses by certain "whales" in the Gridcoin community - so I now work the Distributed.net project directly again.
     
    #8
    ipkha
    CLASSIFIED Member
    • Total Posts : 2308
    • Reward points : 0
    • Joined: 2015/02/10 21:01:40
    • Location: Indiana
    • Status: offline
    • Ribbons : 6
    Re: Power-gulping cryptocurrency miners now charged higher fees in New York 2018/03/25 06:40:56 (permalink)
    If you read the actual facts of the story you'd see that they are allotted a specified amount of dam power for the utility district. After that they have to pull from the regional grid at market rates. So it makes sense to charge the farm the higher cost and not pass it on to the individual rate later households that didn't cause the problem. Businesses get this type if segmented power coats all the time if they are large users.


    #9
    QuintLeo
    SSC Member
    • Total Posts : 946
    • Reward points : 0
    • Joined: 2016/04/16 23:05:09
    • Status: offline
    • Ribbons : 3
    Re: Power-gulping cryptocurrency miners now charged higher fees in New York 2018/03/25 11:55:26 (permalink)
    Not quibbling about that, I'm just boggling about the TINY SIZE of at least one of those power companies and correcting the BADLY OVERSTATED consumption of big mining farms in the US.
     
    For perspective on just HOW TINY a "3 Megawatt capacity power company is", the SMALLEST power production dam on the Columbia River in the US is rated at 660 Megawatts (Rock Island) and is one of *2* Columbia River power dams owned by Chelan COUNTY Public Utility District (the other one is rated over 1000 Megawatts, and they also own a small dam on a tributary that is rated for 58 Megawatts and dates back to 1927).
    Chelan County PUD serves ballpark 75,000 people (it's a low pop density country except for Wenatchee and to a lesser degree Quincy) yet has almost 2000 Megawatts of rated power capacity (a large chunk of that is on long-term contract to Alcoa for a local area aluminum smelter/manufacturing facility).
     
    Most coal-fired power plants are measured in 3 digit megawatts with a lot of them in the 2000 Megawatt AND MORE range (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_coal_power_stations) though very very few if any are being built today in the US.
     
    Natural gas GENERATORS are generally 2-digit or 3-digit megawatt PER GENERATOR (https://www.gepower.com/gas/gas-turbines) - note that the smallest generator on THAT list dates back DECADES to it's original version.
     
    Even a SINGLE WIND-POWER MACHINE in the last decade has often been in the 2.5 Megawatt OR MORE range.
    (https://www.gerenewableenergy.com/wind-energy/turbines/haliade-x-offshore-turbine) current largest (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipper_Windpower - I used to live less than a mile from their factory) made the Liberty model that was first deployed in 2007.
     
    Granted that's peak capacity for these generators, but Kirkwood Community College in Cedar Rapids has had one of those Clipper Windpower "Liberty" generators in use on campus for several years now.
    That's one COMMUNITY COLLEGE with 2.5 Megawatts of "nameplate power capacity".
     
    I state again, a power company or utility district with a total 3MW capacity is TINY.
     

    Now that vorsholk has stopped his abuse, I'm returning to folding.
     I no longer MOO due to abuses by certain "whales" in the Gridcoin community - so I now work the Distributed.net project directly again.
     
    #10
    ipkha
    CLASSIFIED Member
    • Total Posts : 2308
    • Reward points : 0
    • Joined: 2015/02/10 21:01:40
    • Location: Indiana
    • Status: offline
    • Ribbons : 6
    Re: Power-gulping cryptocurrency miners now charged higher fees in New York 2018/03/25 12:27:00 (permalink)
    Yes, it is tiny and that's because they are allotted that from the hydro plant. I agree the farms aren't that huge in this regard, but it put the town over the allotment.


    #11
    Globespy
    New Member
    • Total Posts : 41
    • Reward points : 0
    • Joined: 2016/09/02 07:59:43
    • Status: offline
    • Ribbons : 0
    Re: Power-gulping cryptocurrency miners now charged higher fees in New York 2018/04/03 00:21:14 (permalink)
    Lol...and now the utility companies are trying to leverage all this crypto mining BS to raise the cost of electricity for everyone else.
    The average window box AC unit goes through MASSIVELY more electricity in a day than an array of 10 GPU's.
    Turn on a hair dryer for a day and even more power.
     
    Are they gonna start telling people when they are allowed to stay cool or dry their hair? Geez....
     
    Please, use your friggin brains people and stop and think for a second before being guided down the garden path.
     
     
    #12
    QuintLeo
    SSC Member
    • Total Posts : 946
    • Reward points : 0
    • Joined: 2016/04/16 23:05:09
    • Status: offline
    • Ribbons : 3
    Re: Power-gulping cryptocurrency miners now charged higher fees in New York 2018/04/03 03:09:31 (permalink)
    The average window AC unit uses a similar amount of power as an average ASIC miner, or 2 6-GPU riser rigs.
    Miners tend to have more then two rigs though and they're on 24/7 where a window A/C unit is rarely on 50% of the time over the course of a day even on the hottest days.
     
    The BIGGEST Window A/C unit I'm aware of uses about 1.5 times the power draw of a Bitmain S9.
     
    It's not ALL power companies that care - it's the ones that are in very low cost electric areas that are getting a LOT of cryptocoin miners relocating for the low power cost (Chelan County Washington being probably the FIRST) that are doing the "mining specific rate" stuff, as it's having a MAJOR impact on their planned "growth" budget and power availability.
     
    The various documentation on just how MUCH power folks wanted to add to Chelan's grid in just a one year period is an eye opener - and makes it understandable that the PUD decided they "needed to DO something about it".
    We're talking requests totalling HUNDREDS OF MEGAWATTS in the appx. 1 year before they imposed a "moritorium" on new large projects to research the issue and figure out what to do about it.
     
    I don't like the result they came up with, but I can understand WHY they did it (and what they don't realize is that it CAN be worked around easily by small mining operations, fairly easily by medium, and even the LARGE operations could work around it with some effort).
     
     
    post edited by QuintLeo - 2018/04/03 03:11:49

    Now that vorsholk has stopped his abuse, I'm returning to folding.
     I no longer MOO due to abuses by certain "whales" in the Gridcoin community - so I now work the Distributed.net project directly again.
     
    #13
    Jump to:
  • Back to Mobile