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Hot!Owner/Buyer Beware: Hybrid Kits

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ZoranC
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2021/04/07 23:55:18 (permalink)
While putting my system back together today threads in one of the mounting holes on radiator of my 2080 Super FTW3 Hybrid got completely stripped (not threads on the screw but inside the hole).
 
I was using screws supplied with the card, I was always very careful not to crossthread nor overtighten, card was mounted less than a dozen of times yet threads in that hole got stripped completely clean off so now my radiator is attached to the case with only three screws.
 
To me that implies metal used for radiator is soft (or at least softer enough than screws) and couldn’t withstand being (re)mounted more than few times, as if manufacturer didn’t design/test them for being mounted more than few times.
 
So buyer beware when (re)assembling systems with Hybrid cards, you might end up with damage to them just through what should be normal no issue activity and they are extremely expensive and practically impossible to replace/fix nowadays.
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    rjohnson11
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    Re: Owner/Buyer Beware: Hybrid Kits 2021/04/08 01:11:15 (permalink)
    All I can advise you to do is to contact EVGA tech support

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    #2
    ZoranC
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    Re: Owner/Buyer Beware: Hybrid Kits 2021/04/08 01:35:20 (permalink)
    rjohnson11
    All I can advise you to do is to contact EVGA tech support



    I will. But I still wanted to post this for benefit of others.
    #3
    ZoranC
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    Re: Owner/Buyer Beware: Hybrid Kits 2021/04/08 22:12:21 (permalink)
    To those that are interested: Earlier today I checked radiator mounting area and then screw itself with a magnet. Mounting area is non-magnetic while screw is magnetic indicating mount is, as suspected, aluminum while screw is most likely steel.
     
    Use coarse thread steel screw on hole in relatively thin aluminum and what’s the worst thing that can happen, right? In my opinion result is exactly what could’ve been easily expected.
    #4
    bonzogoatslayer
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    Re: Owner/Buyer Beware: Hybrid Kits 2021/04/30 07:14:59 (permalink)
    Radiators are usually made out of aluminum. It's odd that they wouldn't use brass studs for the screws though, even molded plastic studs wouldn't strip out as easy as aluminum.
     
    Just saying, JB Weld isn't conductive ;)

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    ZoranC
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    Re: Owner/Buyer Beware: Hybrid Kits 2021/04/30 10:02:43 (permalink)
    bonzogoatslayer
    Radiators are usually made out of aluminum. It's odd that they wouldn't use brass studs for the screws though, even molded plastic studs wouldn't strip out as easy as aluminum.

     
    Yes, aluminum is what is used for heat transfer/dissipation but just like you and I are pointing out mounting points do not have to be made from aluminum. Just like they aren't in many car industry radiators that are also made from aluminum even though car radiators don't get (re)mounted as many times as AIOs do.
     
    bonzogoatslayer
    Just saying, JB Weld isn't conductive ;)

     
    That is one of the options I've looked at, it is just that doesn't work well on smaller holes. In any case I believe one shouldn't even have to be at this point.
    #6
    deguinan
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    Re: Owner/Buyer Beware: Hybrid Kits 2021/05/02 18:51:58 (permalink)
    Do these things work with the 3090 Hydro Copper?
    #7
    ZoranC
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    Re: Owner/Buyer Beware: Hybrid Kits 2021/05/02 20:09:38 (permalink)
    deguinan
    Do these things work with the 3090 Hydro Copper?



    Hydro Copper is a completely different thing.
    #8
    lejeunedillon92
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    Re: Owner/Buyer Beware: Hybrid Kits 2021/05/02 23:13:23 (permalink)
    It's stuff like this that makes me paranoid of AIOs
    #9
    ZoranC
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    Re: Owner/Buyer Beware: Hybrid Kits 2021/05/03 09:54:39 (permalink)
    lejeunedillon92
    It's stuff like this that makes me paranoid of AIOs



    They have their cons and they have their pros, I believe they do have their place in the world and some of cons are avoidable by manufacturer.
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    jimbopoppins
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    Re: Owner/Buyer Beware: Hybrid Kits 2021/05/19 12:04:02 (permalink)
    Thanks for the cautionary tale.  Is there a recommended tightening specification.. like a torque wrench or something, or is it all just by feeel?
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    ZoranC
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    Re: Owner/Buyer Beware: Hybrid Kits 2021/05/19 15:45:12 (permalink)
    jimbopoppins
    Thanks for the cautionary tale.  Is there a recommended tightening specification.. like a torque wrench or something, or is it all just by feeel?



    I'm not aware of any AIO manufacturer, including EVGA, giving recommended torque specs, it is all by feel. In my case I suspect it wasn't the tightness that caused the issue but the imperfection on that particular screw's and/or hole's thread. I've been careful to not make it more than finger tight, nor cross thread it, and out of 8 holes (I have two cards) "only" one of them ended up stripped smooth, remaining 7 are fine.
    #12
    HeavyHemi
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    Re: Owner/Buyer Beware: Hybrid Kits 2021/05/19 16:12:22 (permalink)
    Captive nuts are your solution. EVGA does not make AIO's they are farmed out to ASETEK just like almost everyone else does. The frame is made of aluminum using standard threads with standard, not coarse pitch machine screws. It's a bummer you stripped out a
    hole. Use a cap nut to fix it.  You might notice you're not getting a huge amount of traffic with folks having your issue. That's because it's not really an issue. Literally billions of attachments and you can expect a few QA escapes. Your other 7 holes should last until you're no long using the product. I don't see the issue and neither (with the lack of traffic) does pretty much anyone else.
     
    jimbopoppins
    Thanks for the cautionary tale.  Is there a recommended tightening specification.. like a torque wrench or something, or is it all just by feeel?


     
    If you're using a small hand screw driver, you don't need a torque spec. Spin down finger tight then 1/4 past and you should never have an issue.
     
     
     
    bonzogoatslayer
    Radiators are usually made out of aluminum. It's odd that they wouldn't use brass studs for the screws though, even molded plastic studs wouldn't strip out as easy as aluminum.
     
    Just saying, JB Weld isn't conductive ;)


     
    Not odd at all, that would add a huge cost to manufacturing.
    post edited by HeavyHemi - 2021/05/19 16:15:12

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    #13
    ZoranC
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    Re: Owner/Buyer Beware: Hybrid Kits 2021/05/19 16:23:41 (permalink)
    HeavyHemi
    If you're using a small hand screw driver, you don't need a torque spec. Spin down finger tight then 1/4 past and you should never have an issue.

     
    IMHO "never" is too strong of a statement and "usually you shouldn't have an issue" would be better fit. I obviously did have an issue even though I was careful to finger tighten and not even go 1/4 past so "never say never".
    #14
    HeavyHemi
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    Re: Owner/Buyer Beware: Hybrid Kits 2021/05/19 21:19:50 (permalink)
    ZoranC
    HeavyHemi
    If you're using a small hand screw driver, you don't need a torque spec. Spin down finger tight then 1/4 past and you should never have an issue.

     
    IMHO "never" is too strong of a statement and "usually you shouldn't have an issue" would be better fit. I obviously did have an issue even though I was careful to finger tighten and not even go 1/4 past so "never say never".


    +
    You missed the word should which serves functionally the same as usually.  Further you ignore the point that EVGA is simply using the same manufacture and the same materials as everyone else.
    You're missing the point that your argument should apply to pretty much every single one of these made. Oddly very few have issues. So is the issue manufacturing or the user?
     
    I'm not sure why you're intent on repeating your same flawed arguments.
     

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    #15
    ZoranC
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    Re: Owner/Buyer Beware: Hybrid Kits 2021/05/19 22:16:45 (permalink)
    HeavyHemi
    You missed the word should which serves functionally the same as usually.

     
    In my understanding of English “should never” means literally that, “if you do it this way you will never have an issue”. While it is still possible to do it that way and yet end up with issue.
     
    HeavyHemi
    Further you ignore the point that EVGA is simply using the same manufacture and the same materials as everyone else. You're missing the point that your argument should apply to pretty much every single one of these made.

     
    Where exactly did I say this is potential issue with -only- EVGA and wouldn’t be an issue with any radiator manufactured in same way under same circumstances? I didn’t. It goes without saying, a common sense, that it goes for every single one using such approach.
     
    HeavyHemi
    Oddly very few have issues.

     
    You have documentation with statistics to show?
     
    HeavyHemi
    So is the issue manufacturing or the user?

     
    Are you claiming that if -you- tried to use steel screw that doesn’t fit aluminum hole right laws of physical world would magically no longer apply and no damage would ever get incurred to that hole?
     
    Don’t tell me it wouldn’t. It happens all the time to even most experienced mechanics in various industries whenever hole is in soft metal. Anybody that has, for example, worked on bikes or cars can tell you it happens often enough due to no fault of the user. That is one of reasons behind HeliCoil existing.
     
    BTW, I just did Google for “AIO stripped thread” and quite a few results came back. They all must be user error, right?
     
    But guess what, let’s for a second pretend they all -are- user error. As an engineer I’ve been taught that if something gets damaged by user error often enough that is a sign of a design that is too easily damaged and thus not good enough. Yeah, more error tolerant design might cost more but how much more would it really cost? Do you think those that are paying from several hundred to few thousand $ for water cooled card would be really complaining if that drove cost $5, or even $20, up?
     
    HeavyHemi
    I'm not sure why you're intent on repeating your same flawed arguments.

     
    … and I’m not sure why you are intent on jumping to conclusions and making statements -about something that you were not present for to witness-, and keep repeating that, but based on pattern of your posts whenever I discuss some issue one might get an impression you are for whatever reason just bent on dogging me.
     
    post edited by ZoranC - 2021/05/20 00:14:51
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    Cool GTX
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    Re: Owner/Buyer Beware: Hybrid Kits 2021/05/20 09:43:24 (permalink)
    Not much material & aluminum at that ...
     
    I use one finger & my thumb on the side of the driver - to gently tighten fans to radiators - & stop when any resistance is felt

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    transdogmifier
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    Re: Owner/Buyer Beware: Hybrid Kits 2021/05/20 09:55:01 (permalink)
    ZoranC
    HeavyHemi
    You missed the word should which serves functionally the same as usually.

     
    In my understanding of English “should never” means literally that, “if you do it this way you will never have an issue”. While it is still possible to do it that way and yet end up with issue.
     



    I think that's an interpretation regarding each individual and easier to catch if it's verbally stated rather than type written, as you can't get the intonation and understanding....he might have put "SHOULD" in caps an italics
    to better convey what he meant, but functionally he can be correct (and incorrect) at the same time.
     
    post edited by transdogmifier - 2021/05/20 09:57:44

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    ZoranC
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    Re: Owner/Buyer Beware: Hybrid Kits 2021/05/20 10:17:06 (permalink)
    Cool GTX
    Not much material & aluminum at that ...
     
    I use one finger & my thumb on the side of the driver - to gently tighten fans to radiators - & stop when any resistance is felt

     
    That is exactly how I do it yet I ended up with damage on this particular hole. I am guessing when match between threads on screw and hole isn't good and hole material is much softer than screw every time you screw/unscrew you keep reshaping thread in the hole, "grinding" away some of the material without feeling any resistance, until eventually thread in the hole is practically gone / there isn't enough left to keep screw in place.
    #19
    ZoranC
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    Re: Owner/Buyer Beware: Hybrid Kits 2021/05/20 10:29:48 (permalink)
    transdogmifier
    ZoranC
    HeavyHemi
    You missed the word should which serves functionally the same as usually.

     
    In my understanding of English “should never” means literally that, “if you do it this way you will never have an issue”. While it is still possible to do it that way and yet end up with issue.
     



    I think that's an interpretation regarding each individual and easier to catch if it's verbally stated rather than type written, as you can't get the intonation and understanding....he might have put "SHOULD" in caps an italics
    to better convey what he meant, but functionally he can be correct (and incorrect) at the same time.

     
    Granted any word, whether written or spoken, can be misinterpreted so when rule of thumb I follow when speaking / interpreting is that meaning meant is one vast majority of people use those words in, I don't look for hidden meanings cause there might be 0.01% probability someone expresses themselves differently than rest of the world.
     
    So if vast majority of people interprets meaning of “should never” as “if you do it this way you will never have an issue” then that is how I too interpret what was meant when it was said.
    #20
    transdogmifier
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    Re: Owner/Buyer Beware: Hybrid Kits 2021/05/20 10:39:53 (permalink)
    ZoranC
    transdogmifier
    ZoranC
    HeavyHemi
    You missed the word should which serves functionally the same as usually.

     
    In my understanding of English “should never” means literally that, “if you do it this way you will never have an issue”. While it is still possible to do it that way and yet end up with issue.
     



    I think that's an interpretation regarding each individual and easier to catch if it's verbally stated rather than type written, as you can't get the intonation and understanding....he might have put "SHOULD" in caps an italics
    to better convey what he meant, but functionally he can be correct (and incorrect) at the same time.

     
    Granted any word, whether written or spoken, can be misinterpreted so when rule of thumb I follow when speaking / interpreting is that meaning meant is one vast majority of people use those words in, I don't look for hidden meanings cause there might be 0.01% probability someone expresses themselves differently than rest of the world.
     
    So if vast majority of people interprets meaning of “should never” as “if you do it this way you will never have an issue” then that is how I too interpret what was meant when it was said.




    It wasn't my intention to say you were wrong to interpret it the way you did..merely to say that he probably didn't mean it like that.
     
    Context is lost in many situations...and so is meaning without verbal cues.
     
    Having seen Heavy around a lot on the forums over the last ....oh..1.5 decades or so, he's a good guy and knows his stuff....So I suppose I know his 'meanings' a bit better? I don't know.
     
    Anyways, wasn't meaning to cause consternation here.
     
    I do that often enough on purpose in other places.
     

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    #21
    ZoranC
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    Re: Owner/Buyer Beware: Hybrid Kits 2021/05/20 10:55:17 (permalink)
    transdogmifier
    It wasn't my intention to say you were wrong to interpret it the way you did...

     
    I didn't take your post as you saying I was wrong in my interpretation :) and my reply to you is just to explain how I reason when I interpret something.
     
    transdogmifier
    ... merely to say that he probably didn't mean it like that.

     
    See, that is where we differ in how we interpret things. When vast majority of people interprets certain phrase in same way then there is no reason for me to think someone else -probably- meant it completely opposite.
     
    transdogmifier
    Having seen Heavy around a lot on the forums over the last ....oh..1.5 decades or so, he's a good guy and knows his stuff...

     
    I don't know Heavy outside the context of posts addressed to me and I form impression of someone based on how they behave when interacting with -me-.
     
    transdogmifier
    Anyways, wasn't meaning to cause consternation here.

     
    You didn't cause it :)
    #22
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