thesynergy
Superclocked Member
- Total Posts : 136
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2006/01/11 01:08:13
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 0
So this probably isn't the most unique idea, as I'm sure some have thought about this, but what if Nvidia made a large volume mining focused graphics card? I'm talking one that is completely optimized for Equihash and/or other CUDA friendly algorithms? Maybe even make it purposely built to not be good for gaming by keeping clocks too high (often times mining you can run much higher clocks than you would gaming), or some other method.
Think about it once, this would solve a couple of things. First it would get the GPU mining purchases over to a mining focused card, which sure won't be 100% of them, but would massively free up graphics cards built for gaming to the gaming community. I mean they are cannibalizing their core market by not having enough stock, or by not providing the mining community with a special purpose card. The shortage cannot be good for their core market which is gamers.
I suppose from a business perspective, they have no clue how long mining interest will last, especially if value in crypto currencies drops any further, but I'd still think the execs have to be making some big decisions soon, either decide to double production, or whatever they believe is needed, or whip up a mining purposed GPU that is no good to gamers.
What do you guys think?
Core i7 4.2ghz OC to 4.8ghz with Corsair H60 closed loop water cooler with 120mm radiator and fan Corsair Vengeance 16gb 2x8gb DDR4-3200mhz Asus ROG Strix Z270i Gaming Mini ITX mobo EVGA GeForce GTX 2080 Ti XC Gaming MyDigitalSSD BPX m.2 NVMe PCI E Gen 3 x4 MLC SSD 480 GB (3k read/2.3k write) OCZ Vertex 4 SSD 256gb OCZ Agility 3 SSD 128gb Thermaltake Core V1 Black EVGA SuperNova 1000 P2 1000w 80+ Plat PSU Asus PG27UQ 4k/144hz/G-Sync/IPS/384 zone LED/HDR/1000nits monitor (1,100 peak insanity) LG C9 OLED 65" ISF Calibrated Razer Blackwidow mechanical keyboard and Razer Basilisk
|
Sajin
EVGA Forum Moderator
- Total Posts : 49167
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2010/06/07 21:11:51
- Location: Texas, USA.
- Status: online
- Ribbons : 199
Re: Nvidia and mining idea
2018/02/09 12:41:22
(permalink)
Moving thread to cryptocurrency subsection.
|
Chris21010
FTW Member
- Total Posts : 1587
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2006/05/03 07:26:39
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 9
Re: Nvidia and mining idea
2018/02/09 12:44:34
(permalink)
the only thing nvidia could do is remove CUDA support from the gamer cards, no support for cuda = no mining.
|
Ranmacanada
SSC Member
- Total Posts : 992
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2011/09/22 10:44:47
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 3
Re: Nvidia and mining idea
2018/02/09 15:52:12
(permalink)
They did that in Asia, problem is the mining cards cost just as much as the retail cards, only came with a 90 day warranty, and had no resale value. They didn't sell. Again, it's not miners who are buying all the cards, it's gamers and speculators. QuintLeo has already posted multiple times that no where near the number of cards sold has shown up for hashing, and the fact that gaming numbers are up, plus that Pascal production has actually ceased. No Pascal cards being made, with a really high demand from gamers, makes a very bad time to be one. Miners aren't the problem, really bad planning and a super hot Christmas season is to blame.
Now to get rid of the CUDA from the cards would make the cards completely useless as Nvidia would need to make a whole new architecture and new programming language. Not going to happen.
I don't know why you people are so butthurt and demanding a multibillion dollar company change the way they do business just to please YOU. Understand a sale is a sale to them, and they don't care if it goes to a gamer or to a miner or to a speculator who's going to sell it for 50% above market price to some gamer who can't wait, because miner's won't pay that price. It's already floating that the new cards will quite possibly be released in April and it has pretty much been confirmed that production of all Pascal cards ceased months ago.
So if you really want to blame someone for the shortage, blame Nvidia for not having the ability to see the future to know that stopping production of Pascal during Christmas was the dumbest thing they could have ever done. And don't forget Chinese New Year coming up too.
 ASUS TUF GAMING X570-PLUS (WI-FI) AMD Ryzen 2700 Fold for the CURE! EVGA 1080 FTW EVGA 1080Ti Hybrid 
|
emma_and_maddie
New Member
- Total Posts : 4
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2018/01/13 11:57:49
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 0
Re: Nvidia and mining idea
2018/02/09 18:07:23
(permalink)
thesynergy
So this probably isn't the most unique idea, as I'm sure some have thought about this, but what if Nvidia made a large volume mining focused graphics card? I'm talking one that is completely optimized for Equihash and/or other CUDA friendly algorithms? Maybe even make it purposely built to not be good for gaming by keeping clocks too high (often times mining you can run much higher clocks than you would gaming), or some other method.
Think about it once, this would solve a couple of things. First it would get the GPU mining purchases over to a mining focused card, which sure won't be 100% of them, but would massively free up graphics cards built for gaming to the gaming community. I mean they are cannibalizing their core market by not having enough stock, or by not providing the mining community with a special purpose card. The shortage cannot be good for their core market which is gamers.
I suppose from a business perspective, they have no clue how long mining interest will last, especially if value in crypto currencies drops any further, but I'd still think the execs have to be making some big decisions soon, either decide to double production, or whatever they believe is needed, or whip up a mining purposed GPU that is no good to gamers.
What do you guys think?
I think it is a fabulous idea, now if you could convince every one that thinks this way to put up their life savings, you just might be able to create a company that can do just that. With just a little bit of luck and hard work, making all the right decisions and a boat load of more luck, your company might just survive long enough to get a product on the shelf before it is completely obsolete. Or a company can push the tech envelope as far and as fast as they can, and let the software developers decide how they can best utilize that tech. They simply misjudged demand, nothing more. Gamers are great customers, people utilizing gpu's for work are equally great customers, and miners are also great customers. I had to buy a mobo just to get a card, lucky I have an excess of memory laying around for a new build. Thank you evga for looking out for some one who needed a new pc.
post edited by emma_and_maddie - 2018/02/09 18:08:43
|
vanhaus
Superclocked Member
- Total Posts : 101
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2018/01/24 16:43:44
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 0
Re: Nvidia and mining idea
2018/02/10 14:52:08
(permalink)
Cuda is not only useful for miners. Some may use Cuda for GPU Rendering in apps that supports it.
|
Chris21010
FTW Member
- Total Posts : 1587
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2006/05/03 07:26:39
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 9
Re: Nvidia and mining idea
2018/02/10 15:57:16
(permalink)
i didnt say that Nvidia should stop supporting CUDA i am saying make "GAMER" cards that do not support it.
|
ty_ger07
Insert Custom Title Here
- Total Posts : 21171
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2008/04/10 23:48:15
- Location: traveler
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 270
Re: Nvidia and mining idea
2018/02/10 17:21:40
(permalink)
Chris21010
i didnt say that Nvidia should stop supporting CUDA i am saying make "GAMER" cards that do not support it.
I think it is a good idea. Gamers can have gamer cards without CUDA support. Professionals can have productivity/mining cards with CUDA support (which could still of course be used for gaming). They can each fight for their own turf. At least that way we could better measure the real demand.
ASRock Z77 • Intel Core i7 3770K • EVGA GTX 1080 • Samsung 850 Pro • Seasonic PRIME 600W Titanium
My EVGA Score: 1546 • Zero Associates Points • I don't shill
|
Jayninja
New Member
- Total Posts : 18
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2018/02/10 18:15:48
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 0
Re: Nvidia and mining idea
2018/02/10 18:28:42
(permalink)
It wouldn't make sense to spend the money to design a special purpose gpu for each algorithm. If you were going to put the R&D into this, you would want to build an ASIC.
|
Chris21010
FTW Member
- Total Posts : 1587
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2006/05/03 07:26:39
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 9
Re: Nvidia and mining idea
2018/02/10 19:16:53
(permalink)
yet another (TOS) spamming posts not related to the topics at hand, wonderful.... the topic isnt about ASIC mining it's about gamers and their GPU's. what can nvidia do to make it such that gamers can have their GPU's and miners not want to buy them. edit by Cool GTX
post edited by Cool GTX - 2018/02/11 11:45:40
|
Jayninja
New Member
- Total Posts : 18
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2018/02/10 18:15:48
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 0
Re: Nvidia and mining idea
2018/02/11 11:37:17
(permalink)
Chris21010
yet another (TOS) spamming posts not related to the topics at hand, wonderful....
the topic isnt about ASIC mining it's about gamers and their GPU's. what can nvidia do to make it such that gamers can have their GPU's and miners not want to buy them.
I'm going to assume you are a (TOS), and not take the bait on verbally abusing you. I was explaining why there couldn't really be a mining specific GPU that would be worth it. Once you start building specialized hardware dedicated to mining, in order to beat out general GPUs you need to optimize it for the algorithms that it will be mining. Otherwise, how in the world would it be specialized to mining!? And how exactly would you do that? You would add circuits specifically designed to be optimal for those specific algorithms, which... oh btw exists... and are called ASICs. More to the OPs original point, I think the answer is, there is not a way to do it because what is needed for gaming is crunching numbers, which is the same thing necessary for mining. Now, could they just market them separately? Sure. But would that really do anything? Probably not. edit Cool GTX (TOS)
post edited by Cool GTX - 2018/02/11 11:46:21
|
Cool GTX
EVGA Forum Moderator
- Total Posts : 30991
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2010/12/12 14:22:25
- Location: Folding for the Greater Good
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 122
Re: Nvidia and mining idea
2018/02/11 11:47:21
(permalink)
Please keep it friendly  TOS - Forum Etiquette Members are expected to treat each other with respect, and be courteous of each other's opinions and advice, regardless of his or her relative experience. Although lively discussion is encouraged among members, there are seven things that will not be tolerated: Personal Attacks - Personal attacks often lead to the trading of insults, and can throw the discussion of a legitimate topic off-track. Personal attacks can be defined as issuing a single or repeated personal attack or attacks aimed at another member, rather than at their opinions or ideas. Criticizing a member's post is not considered a personal attack, but using terms such as "child," "idiot," "fanboy," for example, or any other derogatory term designed to discredit a member, is not permitted. Furthermore, comments of a racist or sexist nature, as well as derogatory comments about national origin or sexual orientation, will be dealt with harshly as in a ban from the forums.
|
Chris21010
FTW Member
- Total Posts : 1587
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2006/05/03 07:26:39
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 9
Re: Nvidia and mining idea
2018/02/11 15:51:48
(permalink)
Jayninja
I'm going to assume you are a (TOS), and not take the bait on verbally abusing you. I was explaining why there couldn't really be a mining specific GPU that would be worth it.
sry, just assuming yet another person spamming chat with meaningless info to get their post count up. i hate this new "elite" status nonsense. that being said your response is still a short blurb of why GPUs are not ASICs. though the OP was talking about minging specific cards he wasn't talking about changing the GPU die itself to make them ASIC. instead just tweaked memory, add/remove things on the PCB that would make it a little more friendly to mining as a whole, making it possibly cheaper, and more appealing to miners instead of their current GTX lineup. edit Cool GTX (TOS) removed
post edited by Cool GTX - 2018/02/11 18:17:57
|
Jayninja
New Member
- Total Posts : 18
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2018/02/10 18:15:48
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 0
Re: Nvidia and mining idea
2018/02/11 20:14:47
(permalink)
Chris21010
that being said your response is still a short blurb of why GPUs are not ASICs. though the OP was talking about minging specific cards he wasn't talking about changing the GPU die itself to make them ASIC. instead just tweaked memory, add/remove things on the PCB that would make it a little more friendly to mining as a whole, making it possibly cheaper, and more appealing to miners instead of their current GTX lineup.
Im sorry you feel that way. I thought it was basically a short blurb on why the logical next step to optimizing a GPU specifically for mining would be essentially creating an ASIC. Let me explain, since an ASIC is circuitry specifically made for a single purpose, it doesnt mean it all of a sudden turns into a blockerupter. Even if it looked like a GPU for the most part but had specialized circuitry we would be walking the line of "is it an ASIC or a GPU". That is essentially what I was getting at. I assumed something a bit more drastic than simply tweaking memory or a minor PCB change. When I see features like factory OC, and a 30$ markup, I tend to keep on moving because I can simply OC it myself and save the 30$. I can only assume other miners would feel the same. Now, if it was some huge change, and the price was the same as gaming GPU or lower, I could see that working. But you know how it is, they would release it, and it would be a 3k$ card because the cost of R&D would need to be recovered. Obviously there is no right answer here, we are all just throwing opinions/ideas out there.
|
mektacular
iCX Member
- Total Posts : 331
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2011/03/09 14:58:14
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 0
Re: Nvidia and mining idea
2018/02/12 09:05:18
(permalink)
Not quite the OP was stating, but this is a small step towards mining specific. Basically a 1060 with no video outputs and 3 month warranty. Probably also guaranteed not to have Hynex memory so you can get 24MHs out of it. Allows them to sell it cheaper than a regular 1060 and won't cannibalize game market because it has no video output. https://www.gigabyte.com/Graphics-Card/GV-NP106D5-6G-rev-11-12-13#kf
|
ty_ger07
Insert Custom Title Here
- Total Posts : 21171
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2008/04/10 23:48:15
- Location: traveler
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 270
Re: Nvidia and mining idea
2018/02/12 09:24:48
(permalink)
mektacular
Not quite the OP was stating, but this is a small step towards mining specific. Basically a 1060 with no video outputs and 3 month warranty. Probably also guaranteed not to have Hynex memory so you can get 24MHs out of it. Allows them to sell it cheaper than a regular 1060 and won't cannibalize game market because it has no video output.
https://www.gigabyte.com/Graphics-Card/GV-NP106D5-6G-rev-11-12-13#kf
Yes, I would have said the same thing except that products like that have a major problem. Sure they may be a bit cheaper and may be better for mining, but miners who use GPUs (instead of ASICs) tend to still prefer to buy "gamer" cards instead of the special mining GPU variants. Why? Resale value; in case mining crashes shortly after the card was purchased. So, those special mining cards tend to be poor sellers and tend not to provide much solution at all, until "gamer" cards are somehow no longer desireable. Therefore, I think disabling CUDA ability on at least some models of "gamer" cards may be a potential solution for the gamer market.
post edited by ty_ger07 - 2018/02/12 09:25:52
ASRock Z77 • Intel Core i7 3770K • EVGA GTX 1080 • Samsung 850 Pro • Seasonic PRIME 600W Titanium
My EVGA Score: 1546 • Zero Associates Points • I don't shill
|
mektacular
iCX Member
- Total Posts : 331
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2011/03/09 14:58:14
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 0
Re: Nvidia and mining idea
2018/02/12 09:51:04
(permalink)
ty_ger07
Yes, I would have said the same thing except that products like that have a major problem. Sure they may be a bit cheaper and may be better for mining, but miners who use GPUs (instead of ASICs) tend to still prefer to buy "gamer" cards instead of the special mining GPU variants. Why? Resale value; in case mining crashes shortly after the card was purchased.
So, those special mining cards tend to be poor sellers and tend not to provide much solution at all, until "gamer" cards are somehow no longer desireable. Therefore, I think disabling CUDA ability on at least some models of "gamer" cards may be a potential solution for the gamer market.
That's probably true for small to medium size miners. But for the big boys with 1000+ GPU's, I bet they just run them until they are unprofitable (3 years or so). I can't imagine someone with 1000+ GPU's trying to sell them used. The cost of the upgrade, reconfiguring the boxes, then selling the cards. It's not something they want to do every year. Maybe I just suffer from a lack of imagination... :) I guess we'll find out in a couple of years. https://eth.nanopool.org/ - #15 on the top miners list has about 2,000 GPUs.
|
ty_ger07
Insert Custom Title Here
- Total Posts : 21171
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2008/04/10 23:48:15
- Location: traveler
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 270
Re: Nvidia and mining idea
2018/02/12 16:37:43
(permalink)
Ok, fine, the minority of miners buying a lot of GPUs may be interested in a mining version of the GPU, but the majority of miners buying handfuls of GPUs would prefer the "gaming" version with similar performance and better resale value as an escape option in case prices dive soon after purchase. Give us both: 1) more mining versions with reduced warranties, reduced prices, and lack of gaming features 2) "gaming" versions with no CUDA support in decent quanities to satisfy some demand in that market Much more happiness would exist.
post edited by ty_ger07 - 2018/02/12 16:45:25
ASRock Z77 • Intel Core i7 3770K • EVGA GTX 1080 • Samsung 850 Pro • Seasonic PRIME 600W Titanium
My EVGA Score: 1546 • Zero Associates Points • I don't shill
|
bcavnaugh
The Crunchinator
- Total Posts : 38977
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2012/09/18 17:31:18
- Location: USA Affiliate E5L3CTGE12 Associate 9E88QK5L7811G3H
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 282
Re: Nvidia and mining idea
2018/02/12 17:35:09
(permalink)
Removing CUDA support from Gaming Graphics Card could kill the use of Graphics Cards in BOINC Projects that run Graphics Applications.
Not All BOINC Graphics Card Applications run under OpenCL.
|
Chris21010
FTW Member
- Total Posts : 1587
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2006/05/03 07:26:39
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 9
Re: Nvidia and mining idea
2018/02/12 18:04:20
(permalink)
BOINC is minning, just like F@H. that is just the price we pay when there is a crypto for it. yea, such a move like removing CUDA could hinder such programs from growing naturally from people who have a gaming GPU and find it interesting. but times have changed and people are primarily doing work now for rewards of some kind that are more tangible than stickers and badges. if this move where to happen i could see it being called something like the titan series. a GPU more focused around doing work and not just game. but at the same time not be as expensive as a quadro and true professional grade GPU's.
post edited by Chris21010 - 2018/02/12 18:09:02
|
bcavnaugh
The Crunchinator
- Total Posts : 38977
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2012/09/18 17:31:18
- Location: USA Affiliate E5L3CTGE12 Associate 9E88QK5L7811G3H
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 282
Re: Nvidia and mining idea
2018/02/12 18:23:41
(permalink)
I guess I believe in "Pay It Forward" Over "Pay Me Crypto".
post edited by bcavnaugh - 2018/02/12 18:27:57
|
evgapcbuilds
New Member
- Total Posts : 96
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2018/02/17 15:48:13
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 0
Re: Nvidia and mining idea
2018/02/17 16:36:40
(permalink)
The problem is caused more than scalpers currently than miners. The GPU market has turned into another ground for speculation
|
QuintLeo
SSC Member
- Total Posts : 946
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2016/04/16 23:05:09
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 3
Re: Nvidia and mining idea
2018/03/08 11:35:03
(permalink)
The core issue is that to "remove CUDA" you would have to redesign the entire card from the ground up AND all of the drivers AND all of the applications INCLUDING MOST GAMES that use the cards.
The whole idea of CUDA was to be able to USE the existing hardware for computation, NOT to "add new capabilities" to existing hardware.
To "remove CUDA" would be to remove all of the parts of the card that make it EFFECTIVE in gaming - including such factors as PhysX that are widely used IN GAMING to make the games better and higher performance AND those "unified shaders" that make current cards run a lot more efficiently IN GAMING AND GRAPHICS USAGE in general.
CUDA is an inherent capability of the card, it's NOT a "seprate add on" thing you can just "remove".
Also, most miners don''t use CUDA as such anyway - most mining applications, EVEN FOR NVIDIA CARDS, are written to use OpenCL - to which she same points apply equally.
The shortage problem is caused by an unexpected surge in demand for PC's in general AND for high-end PCs like gamers like in specific, coupled with a "bad timing in 20/20 hindsight" decision on Nvidia's part of when to shift production out of the existing Pascal GPUs into the upcomming Volta GPUs that left them with inadaquate stock on hand after the biggest Christmas/4Q "high end PC sales season in years, perhaps a decade".
Note that cryptocoin mining uses a lot more AMD cards than Nvidia cards (Ethereum ALONE uses more GPUs than all other crypto combined by AT LEAST a 3 to 1 ratio, the BULK of those being AMD cards), yet AMD card availability today is BETTER than Nvidia card availability.
Now that vorsholk has stopped his abuse, I'm returning to folding. I no longer MOO due to abuses by certain "whales" in the Gridcoin community - so I now work the Distributed.net project directly again. 
|