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Hot!Nvidia Launches RTX 4090 at $1599, Oct 12th

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Re: Nvidia Launches RTX 4090 at $1599, Oct 12th 2022/09/20 16:22:34 (permalink)
Woohoo can't wait to purchase a 4090!

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Re: Nvidia Launches RTX 4090 at $1599, Oct 12th 2022/09/20 16:52:25 (permalink)
Completely skipping this card series altogether. Price is just too high.

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#32
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Re: Nvidia Launches RTX 4090 at $1599, Oct 12th 2022/09/20 17:52:24 (permalink)
My card died 3 years ago... There are actual consumers out there that have money set aside to buy stuff... But generation on generation +50% costs really makes it difficult. It's a real shame that PC Gaming has become literally the most expensive form of casual entertainment there is.

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Re: Nvidia Launches RTX 4090 at $1599, Oct 12th 2022/09/20 18:49:19 (permalink)
Nvidia acting like they're still selling gpus to crypto miners and scalpers who will pay any amount so they can try to flip them to previously mentioned crypto miners for even more.

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Re: Nvidia Launches RTX 4090 at $1599, Oct 12th 2022/09/20 19:08:30 (permalink)
the memory bandwidth on the 4080's is laughable.
 
4080 16GB = 256-bit (like the 3070Ti/3070/3060Ti)
4080 12GB = 192-bit (like the 3060) 
 
3080 10GB was 320-bit
3080 12GB was 384-bit               

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Re: Nvidia Launches RTX 4090 at $1599, Oct 12th 2022/09/20 19:09:56 (permalink)
S2000Gan
Nvidia acting like they're still selling gpus to crypto miners and scalpers who will pay any amount so they can try to flip them to previously mentioned crypto miners for even more.




Just be aware the 3080's were being scalped $500 over MSRP four months after release, before the crypto boom.
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Re: Nvidia Launches RTX 4090 at $1599, Oct 12th 2022/09/20 19:15:14 (permalink)
gsrcrxsi
the memory bandwidth on the 4080's is laughable.
 
4080 16GB = 256-bit (like the 3070Ti/3070/3060Ti)
4080 12GB = 192-bit (like the 3060) 
 
3080 10GB was 320-bit
3080 12GB was 384-bit               




Yeah I'll be very interested to see how the 4080 12GB does against the 3090 and 3080 Ti, with the cut down memory bus and ~7K cores.
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Re: Nvidia Launches RTX 4090 at $1599, Oct 12th 2022/09/20 20:30:36 (permalink)
Here are my issues with the price.
1. It is not EVGA any AIB you buy it from if something should happen it could turn into an expensive nightmare.
2. The initial 4090 ES's that got sent out have 32k Cuda cores, this retail has 16k less.
3. I have seen the 4090 ES's with DDR4, DDR5 4400mhz-6600mhz you lose a nice chunk of frames off your minimum/average/high going with ddr4 or slower ddr5. You really want dd5 6000-6600mhz at a lower CL. So depending on your setup it could be a 300-2k+ worth of upgrades for gaming to squeeze every dollar of performance out of this card, you are kind of paying for it kind of have to go all the way.
4. If you have an older psu and even some more modern psu's that run fine on the 30 series you may have issues with the 40 series.
5. the 1000+ price point of the 4080 is sort of insulting. It's not even the top tier card.
6. The AIB's cards are not EVGA hard to justify the 200-300 markup of the AIB's when you are not getting the same customer service/warranty from point 1.
7. When the cost to play a video game well exceeds something I use every day that has more use in my everyday life I sort of draw the line. like seriously a gpu that cost as much or more than peoples mortgages to rent then there is a problem.
post edited by donta1979 - 2022/09/20 20:43:12

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#38
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Re: Nvidia Launches RTX 4090 at $1599, Oct 12th 2022/09/20 20:40:08 (permalink)


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Re: Nvidia Launches RTX 4090 at $1599, Oct 12th 2022/09/20 21:49:28 (permalink)
Here are two graphs I quickly threw together out of curiosity. The top is a graph of the price of gpus based on the "step down from largest die" from the 700 series onward and the lower graph look at the cheapest model of large dies from the 700 series onward using the AD103-300 4080 16GB as the "step down from titan-equivalent".

post edited by S2000Gan - 2022/09/20 21:58:25

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#40
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Re: Nvidia Launches RTX 4090 at $1599, Oct 12th 2022/09/20 23:07:41 (permalink)
kevinc313





Okay, that was good. 
 
gsrcrxsi
the memory bandwidth on the 4080's is laughable.
 
4080 16GB = 256-bit (like the 3070Ti/3070/3060Ti)
4080 12GB = 192-bit (like the 3060) 
 
3080 10GB was 320-bit
3080 12GB was 384-bit               


 
Glad to see someone noticed that! Imagine, a $900 GPU with a 192-bit bus. Even a slight frequency bump on the GDDR6X isn't going to mitigate that. NVIDIA's material includes a performance slide here: https://images.nvidia.com/aem-dam/Solutions/geforce/ada/news/rtx-40-series-graphics-cards-announcements/geforce-rtx-40-series-gaming-performance.png
 
Even NVIDIA was forced to admit the 3090 Ti outperforms the 12GB 4080 in rasterization-focused benchmarks. But the 256-bit 16GB 4080 maintains a performance lead in those same games. That's almost guaranteed to be entirely due to the memory width limitation... that poor GPU is sipping data through a coffee straw. 
 
Will have to wait for benchmarks, but judging by the hardware specs the 4090 might just be the only worthwhile card. Anyone after a 12GB 4080 will probably get much better bang for the buck buying into Ampere. 


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#41
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Re: Nvidia Launches RTX 4090 at $1599, Oct 12th 2022/09/21 01:34:49 (permalink)
donta1979
2. The initial 4090 ES's that got sent out have 32k Cuda cores, this retail has 16k less.

What? I thought the full chip was 18432? 32k?!?!

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Re: Nvidia Launches RTX 4090 at $1599, Oct 12th 2022/09/21 06:13:12 (permalink)
kougar
Glad to see someone noticed that! Imagine, a $900 GPU with a 192-bit bus. Even a slight frequency bump on the GDDR6X isn't going to mitigate that. NVIDIA's material includes a performance slide here: https://images.nvidia.com/aem-dam/Solutions/geforce/ada/news/rtx-40-series-graphics-cards-announcements/geforce-rtx-40-series-gaming-performance.png
 
Even NVIDIA was forced to admit the 3090 Ti outperforms the 12GB 4080 in rasterization-focused benchmarks. But the 256-bit 16GB 4080 maintains a performance lead in those same games. That's almost guaranteed to be entirely due to the memory width limitation... that poor GPU is sipping data through a coffee straw. 



IMHO the only benchmark that actually matters is Original Timespy - 1440P DX12.  Nvidia is manipulating the benches they present.  Based on the power, core count, freq, and memory bandwidth, I'll bet the 4080 12GB is directly on par with the 3080 12GB and behind the 3090/3080 Ti.
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Re: Nvidia Launches RTX 4090 at $1599, Oct 12th 2022/09/21 06:16:10 (permalink)
Sajin
donta1979
2. The initial 4090 ES's that got sent out have 32k Cuda cores, this retail has 16k less.

What? I thought the full chip was 18432? 32k?!?!




Could be based on an AD100 chip?  
 
Or Funny double core count inflating.
#44
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Re: Nvidia Launches RTX 4090 at $1599, Oct 12th 2022/09/21 10:43:55 (permalink)
kevinc313
Sajin
donta1979
2. The initial 4090 ES's that got sent out have 32k Cuda cores, this retail has 16k less.

What? I thought the full chip was 18432? 32k?!?!




Could be based on an AD100 chip?  

Where does it state ad100 has 32k cuda cores?

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Re: Nvidia Launches RTX 4090 at $1599, Oct 12th 2022/09/21 11:09:25 (permalink)
Sajin
Where does it state ad100 has 32k cuda cores?


Nowhere.  Just an educated guess.  
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Re: Nvidia Launches RTX 4090 at $1599, Oct 12th 2022/09/22 01:35:29 (permalink)
kougar Anyone after a 12GB 4080 will probably get much better bang for the buck buying into Ampere. 



That does seem like their master plan. Make 40 series so expensive that only whales buy even the 4080 12gb and force everyone else to pay launch price for 2 year old gpus. Market manipulation at its finest...
Best thing consumers can do it either stick with their current GPU or switch to AMD and hopefully knock Nvidia down a peg.



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Re: Nvidia Launches RTX 4090 at $1599, Oct 12th 2022/09/22 09:49:23 (permalink)

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Re: Nvidia Launches RTX 4090 at $1599, Oct 12th 2022/09/22 10:56:25 (permalink)

#49
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Re: Nvidia Launches RTX 4090 at $1599, Oct 12th 2022/09/22 15:06:39 (permalink)
I think the issue we are seeing is that Nvidia is mostly improving ray tracing performance each generation and most games just don't use ray tracing so we're being asked to pay huge amounts for something we will rarely if ever use, and I know they have been going on about DLSS being worth it in non-RT games but its just not at these prices.


Ultimately, I think nvidia has just failed to make ray tracing affordable to the average gamer so far meanwhile they have been holding people back from even getting more powerful rasterization performance at the mainstream price point.


Maybe when you can get 60fps with ray tracing enabled at 1080p in cyberpunk for $300 things will be back to "normal" because right now you need a 3080 at least to get close to 60fps 1080p which nvidia wants you to pay about $700-900 for.

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#50
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Re: Nvidia Launches RTX 4090 at $1599, Oct 12th 2022/09/22 15:19:26 (permalink)
S2000Gan
I think the issue we are seeing is that Nvidia is mostly improving ray tracing performance each generation and most games just don't use ray tracing so we're being asked to pay huge amounts for something we will rarely if ever use, and I know they have been going on about DLSS being worth it in non-RT games but its just not at these prices.


Ultimately, I think nvidia has just failed to make ray tracing affordable to the average gamer so far meanwhile they have been holding people back from even getting more powerful rasterization performance at the mainstream price point.


Maybe when you can get 60fps with ray tracing enabled at 1080p in cyberpunk for $300 things will be back to "normal" because right now you need a 3080 at least to get close to 60fps 1080p which nvidia wants you to pay about $700-900 for.



Pretty much this. Ever since the 1st gen 20s they’ve been pushing for high end tech that the game industry can’t keep up with. It’s the whole DirectX mess all over again. Sad thing is Nvidia doesn’t care nor seems to want to care, it’s all about the all mighty dollar bill.


#51
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Re: Nvidia Launches RTX 4090 at $1599, Oct 12th 2022/09/22 15:36:43 (permalink)
Looking at the AD106 (supposed 4050) specs, If it performs as well as a 3060 for $200 they might actually have a pretty good "entry" level product though.
But if its the same 3060 performance for the same $300, then I just dont see any reason to buy any 40 series.
post edited by S2000Gan - 2022/09/22 15:41:05

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#52
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Re: Nvidia Launches RTX 4090 at $1599, Oct 12th 2022/09/22 17:01:21 (permalink)
Where's that spirit willing to get ripped , how about that 1000$ loss we took who bought the 3090 ti , come on 


#53
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Re: Nvidia Launches RTX 4090 at $1599, Oct 12th 2022/09/22 17:29:43 (permalink)
Killmur
S2000Gan
I think the issue we are seeing is that Nvidia is mostly improving ray tracing performance each generation and most games just don't use ray tracing so we're being asked to pay huge amounts for something we will rarely if ever use, and I know they have been going on about DLSS being worth it in non-RT games but its just not at these prices.


Ultimately, I think nvidia has just failed to make ray tracing affordable to the average gamer so far meanwhile they have been holding people back from even getting more powerful rasterization performance at the mainstream price point.


Maybe when you can get 60fps with ray tracing enabled at 1080p in cyberpunk for $300 things will be back to "normal" because right now you need a 3080 at least to get close to 60fps 1080p which nvidia wants you to pay about $700-900 for.



Pretty much this. Ever since the 1st gen 20s they’ve been pushing for high end tech that the game industry can’t keep up with. It’s the whole DirectX mess all over again. Sad thing is Nvidia doesn’t care nor seems to want to care, it’s all about the all mighty dollar bill.


To reply to both of you at once, and I am not a fan of what NVidia is doing right now with cost and treatment, but would you suggest NVidia just go stagnant while the industry catches up? No? Why not? Why shouldn’t NVidia push the technology in order to push the industry forward.

I don’t anticipate that the end reviews will make me want a 4090 anytime soon, but I also don’t want NVidia to just stop pushing the boundaries for the purpose of letting the market catch up. The programmers should be the ones pushing the hardware to its limits, not programmers releasing trashy unfinished games that run like smoldering hot garbage. Just look at the improvement to BF5 after raytracing was released with horrible performance, and then the programmers and NVidia worked together to figure out that raytracing every single leaf of screen was causing a massive performance hit.. that was a programmers big AHA moment, and people started learning. Faster hardware should mean more performance, and programmers should leverage faster hardware properly, instead of relying on hardware to do their job properly. I hope NVidia continues to push raytracing until it can nearly replace standard path tracing.

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#54
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Re: Nvidia Launches RTX 4090 at $1599, Oct 12th 2022/09/22 20:12:05 (permalink)
 money is not an issue i would buy it if i can find a game that I can't play with my 3080TI with my monitor @1440p @ 165hz

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Re: Nvidia Launches RTX 4090 at $1599, Oct 12th 2022/09/23 01:24:36 (permalink)
the_Scarlet_one
Killmur
S2000Gan
I think the issue we are seeing is that Nvidia is mostly improving ray tracing performance each generation and most games just don't use ray tracing so we're being asked to pay huge amounts for something we will rarely if ever use, and I know they have been going on about DLSS being worth it in non-RT games but its just not at these prices.


Ultimately, I think nvidia has just failed to make ray tracing affordable to the average gamer so far meanwhile they have been holding people back from even getting more powerful rasterization performance at the mainstream price point.


Maybe when you can get 60fps with ray tracing enabled at 1080p in cyberpunk for $300 things will be back to "normal" because right now you need a 3080 at least to get close to 60fps 1080p which nvidia wants you to pay about $700-900 for.



Pretty much this. Ever since the 1st gen 20s they’ve been pushing for high end tech that the game industry can’t keep up with. It’s the whole DirectX mess all over again. Sad thing is Nvidia doesn’t care nor seems to want to care, it’s all about the all mighty dollar bill.


To reply to both of you at once, and I am not a fan of what NVidia is doing right now with cost and treatment, but would you suggest NVidia just go stagnant while the industry catches up? No? Why not? Why shouldn’t NVidia push the technology in order to push the industry forward.

I don’t anticipate that the end reviews will make me want a 4090 anytime soon, but I also don’t want NVidia to just stop pushing the boundaries for the purpose of letting the market catch up. The programmers should be the ones pushing the hardware to its limits, not programmers releasing trashy unfinished games that run like smoldering hot garbage. Just look at the improvement to BF5 after raytracing was released with horrible performance, and then the programmers and NVidia worked together to figure out that raytracing every single leaf of screen was causing a massive performance hit.. that was a programmers big AHA moment, and people started learning. Faster hardware should mean more performance, and programmers should leverage faster hardware properly, instead of relying on hardware to do their job properly. I hope NVidia continues to push raytracing until it can nearly replace standard path tracing.



Nvidia ( and AMD) CAN and SHOULD push gfx but 99.5% of games are way behind. they all seem console ports except for a hand full of them maybe less.
 
but these prices and naming scheming is disgusting! 
 
riight now in overall.. things don't look that good and all are awaiting amd's new RX 7000's
 
 
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Re: Nvidia Launches RTX 4090 at $1599, Oct 12th 2022/09/23 15:46:42 (permalink)
the_Scarlet_one
To reply to both of you at once, and I am not a fan of what NVidia is doing right now with cost and treatment, but would you suggest NVidia just go stagnant while the industry catches up? No? Why not? Why shouldn’t NVidia push the technology in order to push the industry forward.

I don’t anticipate that the end reviews will make me want a 4090 anytime soon, but I also don’t want NVidia to just stop pushing the boundaries for the purpose of letting the market catch up. The programmers should be the ones pushing the hardware to its limits, not programmers releasing trashy unfinished games that run like smoldering hot garbage. Just look at the improvement to BF5 after raytracing was released with horrible performance, and then the programmers and NVidia worked together to figure out that raytracing every single leaf of screen was causing a massive performance hit.. that was a programmers big AHA moment, and people started learning. Faster hardware should mean more performance, and programmers should leverage faster hardware properly, instead of relying on hardware to do their job properly. I hope NVidia continues to push raytracing until it can nearly replace standard path tracing.

I agree Nvidia should be making this advancement into ray tracing. But it is difficult to pay such high premiums for more powerful traditional rasterization performance which is what most games are still dependent on when the majority of what youre paying for is hardly utilized. Consider how powerful a current gen GTX1780 could be at the current "4N" node without all the RT tech that is only be utilized in a fairly small number of games. I understand this would slow the adoption of the technology (Or so people say).
 
Nvidia is clearly trying to force gamers to adopt the technology before the majority of game developers in order to make developing a game with RT easier to justify rather than trying to convince developers to implement RT and then have gamers adopt at their own pace. The result is we are ending up having to pay more money for GPUs we don't even fully utilize.
 
I think that it is the game developers who are ultimately responsible for this. The game development industry could really benefit from adopting more of the old style of working on a game until its done (or at least much more stable than what we have seen the last couple years) rather than rushing something out to hit a yearly holiday release date (or similar) then trying to fix it (if at all) after they've already taken peoples' money, often while simultaneously starting development of the next game in the series to be released the following year.

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#57
Nereus
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Re: Nvidia Launches RTX 4090 at $1599, Oct 12th 2022/09/23 16:12:34 (permalink)
 
Might want to listen to this before buying a 4090:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6FiGEAp928 
 
 

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kevinc313
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Re: Nvidia Launches RTX 4090 at $1599, Oct 12th 2022/09/23 18:44:05 (permalink)
kongfra
 money is not an issue i would buy it if i can find a game that I can't play with my 3080TI with my monitor @1440p @ 165hz




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#59
the_Scarlet_one
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Re: Nvidia Launches RTX 4090 at $1599, Oct 12th 2022/09/24 09:18:35 (permalink)
I am very curious, and spending wayyyy too much time thinking about this, but I don’t know if we will see many, if any, GPUs with two 12+4 pin this generation, and this is my “why” until something else comes out:

Not one of the announced PSU’s that are ATX3.0 PCIe Gen 5 ready have shown more than one 12+4 pin, so far. If the GPU is going to have two, they will require two adapters, or require two 12+4’s, and a majority of the PSU’s announced are removing 8 pins to add in 12+4, it would be very strange to have one 12+4 native and then one octopus adapter to power the other.

That alone makes me think that NVidia is really limited AIB’s to a more traditional reference board, and not allowing the same extreme boards for LN2, like the KPE and HOF.

Both the 3090ti KPE and HOF had two 12+4 connections, and came with two triple 8 to 12 pins. Yet, we all know KPE cards are now retired for the foreseeable future, and GALAX announced their SRS gaming card, but nothing about HOF yet.

I am hopeful to see dual 12+4 GPU’s and PSU’s for extreme overclocking, because I enjoy seeing the competition even if I don’t want to own one of those GPU’s anymore. I am hopeful I am wrong about NVidia limiting the AIB’s too much.

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