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Hot!Nine AIBs have RTX 4090 !!!

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dragomirc
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2022/09/22 14:31:38 (permalink)
Just watching Steve Burke (Gamers Nexus) announcing and introducing RTX 4090 cards from NINE following AIBs:
  • ASUS
  • Gigabyte
  • Colorful
  • Galax,
  • Inno3D,
  • Zotac
  • Palit
  • PNY
  • Gainward
All of them are going to lose money, right?
 
I am sorry, but I do not believe that all AIBs but EVGA committing collective financial suicide.
 
 
post edited by dragomirc - 2022/09/22 16:03:46

EVGA GPU diminishing is hurting me.
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    Delirious
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    Re: Nine AIBs have RTX 4090 !!! 2022/09/22 15:02:56 (permalink)
    can you provide a quote of what the CEO actually said?

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    dragomirc
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    Re: Nine AIBs have RTX 4090 !!! 2022/09/22 15:32:06 (permalink)
    Are you kidding me?
    There are numerous articles, posts, videos, and what not, about EVGA losing money on GPU sales because of Nvidia.  And also, CEO need to be more with family.
    No need to be Einstein to figure out that (by simple analogy) all other AIBs are going to lose money.
     
    Or maybe not, we will see that soon.

    EVGA GPU diminishing is hurting me.
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    Delirious
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    Re: Nine AIBs have RTX 4090 !!! 2022/09/22 15:34:50 (permalink)
    I'm just asking for my own edification, Where has it been said all these companies would loose money?.....and by whom?  if you have so many articles.  Provide at least one source.

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    dragomirc
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    Re: Nine AIBs have RTX 4090 !!! 2022/09/22 15:54:58 (permalink)
    Analogy is a key word.
    No one said word by word that all AIBs would lose money.   
    But if EVGA quit GPU business because low or even (at time) negative profit margin, plain logic dictates conclusion that all AIBs would suffer financial downfall caused by Nvidia.
    No intention to spread fake information.
    Maybe I should just ask question: How come all but EVGA find profitable to produce GPUs?
    Why they still cooperate with Nvidia?
     
    See I am just looking for answer why my longtime and favorite company went under ice by stopping GPU production.
    If one of ten said supplier is bad, and nine are quiet, who are you going to believe?
     
    EDIT:
    I fixed my first post.
    post edited by dragomirc - 2022/09/22 16:05:36

    EVGA GPU diminishing is hurting me.
    #5
    Delirious
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    Re: Nine AIBs have RTX 4090 !!! 2022/09/22 16:14:04 (permalink)
    ok, so it's an analogy.  Not really an accurate statement you put in bold at all.  From what I have read, is that NVIDIA set release dates, MSRP and Min and Max pricing structure that really decreased profit margin and caught some parts of the development process and offerings - off guard.   I can see how if you want to put better memory or upgrade components, you a really limited on what you can do at some points if you:  A. want to provide the best video card available with the greatest options and be innovative and B. if NVIDIA is offering a founders edition and undercutting profitability of it's AIBs on base line units. 
     
    An analgoy for you.    If you were a CEO of a company that sold grills and saw that the cost to acquire and supply a grill barely broke even or made a minimal profit but you made really high profits on accessories, you might think twice selling grills.  Especially if your supplier sold them.   Add in price control, availability, and MSRP on release date.   I'd be hard pressed to carry that particular grill or even at all if I could sell accessories at a higher price margin.   I'm not defending any particular party, rather pointing out that the ramifications would cause any business man pause.  Feature rich products like the EVGA GPUS, is what put them ahead of some of those other AIBs.    I'm sure those companies will make a profit selling vanilla.
     
    and BTW,  Thanks for editing your post to remove EVGA CEO.

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    #6
    dragomirc
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    Re: Nine AIBs have RTX 4090 !!! 2022/09/22 16:25:56 (permalink)
    I appreciate your dedication and patience to explain me (and all other forum members) understandable reasons why this happened.
    Thank you.

    EVGA GPU diminishing is hurting me.
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    Delirious
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    Re: Nine AIBs have RTX 4090 !!! 2022/09/22 16:55:30 (permalink)
    Yeah, NP.  Look,  I am disappointed about it all as much as anyone.  If had my choices, I'd buy 4090 from EVGA if I were in the market for one.   Instead, I'll buy my GPUs from one of the listed ones you provided and move on.  Sad about it but in the scheme of life, it's just a frickin video card.

    "Be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to anger" 
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    the_Scarlet_one
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    Re: Nine AIBs have RTX 4090 !!! 2022/09/22 18:04:53 (permalink)
    dragomirc
    Just watching Steve Burke (Gamers Nexus) announcing and introducing RTX 4090 cards from NINE following AIBs:
    • ASUS
    • Gigabyte
    • Colorful
    • Galax,
    • Inno3D,
    • Zotac
    • Palit
    • PNY
    • Gainward
    All of them are going to lose money, right?
     
    I am sorry, but I do not believe that all AIBs but EVGA committing collective financial suicide.
     
     


    All of them may have already lost a lot of money on the 30 series. Not a single one of those AIB’s has released their MSRP yet, only NVidia released NVidias price. Let’s not forget, NVidia said the 30 series wasn’t being purchased by bots, and when the bots buying all of the GOU’s from NVidias own website proved NVidia wrong, then NVidia stopped selling their own product and pushed it to Best Buy as an exclusive product, meaning NVidia suddenly took a small loss for Best Buy to sell their product for them and then suddenly NVidia no longer had to answer for why bots could buy every single 30 series card that went up on the NVidia webpage.

    So, no, the companies wouldn’t commit financial suicide, because they haven’t even begun to actually sell products that NVidia still has them tight lipped about. We’ve barely even seen the renders of the products so far, much less how they perform. Look at how vastly different some of the VRM layout and heat pipe layouts are so far. Some of those companies may be in for a rude awakening when NVidia puts a hard limit on them, and they can’t sell the product for as much as they initially anticipated.

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    #9
    MSim
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    Re: Nine AIBs have RTX 4090 !!! 2022/09/22 22:08:41 (permalink)
    Profit to be made selling Nvidia Graphics cards. EVGA CEO decided it's not enough anymore for him to justify all the time and effort. He wants to spend time with his family. Who knows what the future holds for EVGA.
     
     


     
    #10
    Hoggle
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    Re: Nine AIBs have RTX 4090 !!! 2022/09/22 23:17:42 (permalink)
    I think that part of the “lose money on every card” is that the 3090Ti was a very expensive card that suddenly saw NVIDIA do a nearly 50% price drop. Every AIB had to cut costs to get rid of inventory and they lost a ton of money on each card but NVIDIA being the supplier didn’t lose as much or maybe nothing. They could have got rid of supply at cost for all we know when they clearanced out the cards but really hurt all their partners in the process.

    The other major thing to consider is you board partners just match NVIDIA performance they have to beat it if they want to sell cards. That takes the cost of overclocking and manufacturing a cooler to keep it stable.

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    rjohnson11
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    Re: Nine AIBs have RTX 4090 !!! 2022/09/22 23:28:44 (permalink)
    Well there are more than enough NVIDIA partners and they must be making enough money to warrant sale of these RTX 4090 cards. 

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    TrekCZ
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    Re: Nine AIBs have RTX 4090 !!! 2022/09/23 01:01:16 (permalink)
    It is possible that those AIB will have huge financial losses but they will do this to keep manufacturing capability, because once you lose it it will be difficult to reestablish that (hence EVGA offered salary to employees for no work to keep them for a while until situation stabilises?). And maybe other AIBs have other businesses that will cover these losses.
    Take a look e.g. on camera manufacturers, many of them have had huge financial losses over years but kept creating new cameras to keep that capability and knowledge.
    It is a pity that EVGA is not able to make it through these times, because they destroyed this community. I am not aware on other platform that would offer meaningful discussions forum.
    #13
    the_Scarlet_one
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    Re: Nine AIBs have RTX 4090 !!! 2022/09/23 05:39:13 (permalink)
    I have not seen a single GPU announced with more than a single 12+4 connector. Not one. I am wondering if that is because NVidia is not allowing more than one connector on the 40 series, or if the true overclocking power hungry cards are being held back until later.

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    rjohnson11
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    Re: Nine AIBs have RTX 4090 !!! 2022/09/23 05:48:51 (permalink)
    the_Scarlet_one
    I have not seen a single GPU announced with more than a single 12+4 connector. Not one. I am wondering if that is because NVidia is not allowing more than one connector on the 40 series, or if the true overclocking power hungry cards are being held back until later.

    A single 12 + 4 connector can provide 600 watts. That should be more than enough power. If there is any two 12+4 connectors to a video card in the future expect a rather large electric bill. 

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    the_Scarlet_one
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    Re: Nine AIBs have RTX 4090 !!! 2022/09/23 06:37:37 (permalink)
    rjohnson11
    the_Scarlet_one
    I have not seen a single GPU announced with more than a single 12+4 connector. Not one. I am wondering if that is because NVidia is not allowing more than one connector on the 40 series, or if the true overclocking power hungry cards are being held back until later.

    A single 12 + 4 connector can provide 600 watts. That should be more than enough power. If there is any two 12+4 connectors to a video card in the future expect a rather large electric bill. 


    T|n and K|ngp|n pulled over 1000w on a 1080ti with three 8 pins years back. Extreme overclocking pulls a lot more than 600w.

    If NVidia is killing creative freedom with the overall PCB design, then extreme overclocking will die forever.

    P.S. 3090ti KPE and GALAX HOF 3090ti has two each. So… where are the 4090 XOC variants?
    post edited by the_Scarlet_one - 2022/09/23 06:44:52

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    jackrabbit2022
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    Re: Nine AIBs have RTX 4090 !!! 2022/09/24 16:49:57 (permalink)
    the_Scarlet_one
    rjohnson11
    the_Scarlet_one
    I have not seen a single GPU announced with more than a single 12+4 connector. Not one. I am wondering if that is because NVidia is not allowing more than one connector on the 40 series, or if the true overclocking power hungry cards are being held back until later.

    A single 12 + 4 connector can provide 600 watts. That should be more than enough power. If there is any two 12+4 connectors to a video card in the future expect a rather large electric bill. 


    T|n and K|ngp|n pulled over 1000w on a 1080ti with three 8 pins years back. Extreme overclocking pulls a lot more than 600w.

    If NVidia is killing creative freedom with the overall PCB design, then extreme overclocking will die forever.

    P.S. 3090ti KPE and GALAX HOF 3090ti has two each. So… where are the 4090 XOC variants?



    Overclocking has been dead for some time. The average person is where the money is at and they do not care about overclocking. As for extreme overclocking, that is beyond niche. Let it die, it's pointless at this stage.
     
     

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    the_Scarlet_one
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    Re: Nine AIBs have RTX 4090 !!! 2022/09/24 17:23:32 (permalink)
    jackrabbit2022
    Overclocking has been dead for some time. The average person is where the money is at and they do not care about overclocking. As for extreme overclocking, that is beyond niche. Let it die, it's pointless at this stage.


    Nah, it isn’t pointless. It shows how the PCB can be improved over and over and over, where NVidia thinks it knows what is best and keeps being proven wrong.

    It’s pointless for lowly consumers, but it isn’t pointless for the hardware itself. That is why Intel continues to push the extreme overclocking events. It has nothing to do with lowly consumers.

    If you don’t want anything to donwoth overclocking, please only purchase the lowest tier and most basic motherboards on the market, and never buy a K sku CPU.
    post edited by the_Scarlet_one - 2022/09/24 17:26:49

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    Delirious
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    Re: Nine AIBs have RTX 4090 !!! 2022/09/24 18:00:24 (permalink)
    jackrabbit2022
    the_Scarlet_one
    rjohnson11
    the_Scarlet_one
    I have not seen a single GPU announced with more than a single 12+4 connector. Not one. I am wondering if that is because NVidia is not allowing more than one connector on the 40 series, or if the true overclocking power hungry cards are being held back until later.

    A single 12 + 4 connector can provide 600 watts. That should be more than enough power. If there is any two 12+4 connectors to a video card in the future expect a rather large electric bill. 


    T|n and K|ngp|n pulled over 1000w on a 1080ti with three 8 pins years back. Extreme overclocking pulls a lot more than 600w.

    If NVidia is killing creative freedom with the overall PCB design, then extreme overclocking will die forever.

    P.S. 3090ti KPE and GALAX HOF 3090ti has two each. So… where are the 4090 XOC variants?



    Overclocking has been dead for some time. The average person is where the money is at and they do not care about overclocking. As for extreme overclocking, that is beyond niche. Let it die, it's pointless at this stage.
     
     




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    rjbarker
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    Re: Nine AIBs have RTX 4090 !!! 2022/09/24 22:14:25 (permalink)
    jackrabbit2022
    the_Scarlet_one
    rjohnson11
    the_Scarlet_one
    I have not seen a single GPU announced with more than a single 12+4 connector. Not one. I am wondering if that is because NVidia is not allowing more than one connector on the 40 series, or if the true overclocking power hungry cards are being held back until later.

    A single 12 + 4 connector can provide 600 watts. That should be more than enough power. If there is any two 12+4 connectors to a video card in the future expect a rather large electric bill. 


    T|n and K|ngp|n pulled over 1000w on a 1080ti with three 8 pins years back. Extreme overclocking pulls a lot more than 600w.

    If NVidia is killing creative freedom with the overall PCB design, then extreme overclocking will die forever.

    P.S. 3090ti KPE and GALAX HOF 3090ti has two each. So… where are the 4090 XOC variants?



    Overclocking has been dead for some time. The average person is where the money is at and they do not care about overclocking. As for extreme overclocking, that is beyond niche. Let it die, it's pointless at this stage.
     
     




    OC'ing in general sure isn't dead...extreme Kingpin LN2 OC'ing is a whole different realm and certainly is a specialized niche / community.
    Kingpin Cards always had a select few that "had to have it" regardless of cost and regardless of mediocre gains (when no LN2 applied or at thee very least custom loops)....just like the Titans.
     
    Sometimes its simply "fun" to see how hard you can push hw....I'm quite sure the Evga FTW series aren't the only Cards out their capable of decent OC'ing.....guess we will find out which brand is preferred soon, as I can guarantee that although many fanboys may go to consoles or "not purchase next gen" etc etc etc...there a ton of us (fanboys) that will move on and base our next brand on Water Block availability, price and support.....that's guaranteed ;)

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    kongfra
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    Re: Nine AIBs have RTX 4090 !!! 2022/09/27 09:58:12 (permalink)
    I guess it will be ASUS first choice or Gigabyte for me, I like both of those brands.  I would still prefer EVGA over those if they were making video cards but oh well those manufacturers are just as good

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    XrayMan
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    Re: Nine AIBs have RTX 4090 !!! 2022/09/27 20:45:08 (permalink)
     
    Moved to Hardware.

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    kougar
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    Re: Nine AIBs have RTX 4090 !!! 2022/09/28 05:33:00 (permalink)

    dragomirc
    Just watching Steve Burke (Gamers Nexus) announcing and introducing RTX 4090 cards from NINE following AIBs:
    • ASUS
    • Gigabyte
    • Colorful
    • Galax,
    • Inno3D,
    • Zotac
    • Palit
    • PNY
    • Gainward
    All of them are going to lose money, right?
     
    I am sorry, but I do not believe that all AIBs but EVGA committing collective financial suicide.

     
    I mean, if you watched the video Steve did on the EVGA announcement he explains all of this pretty clearly. Look at the JPR AIB margin graph, then realize that every company you just named has a larger market size than EVGA did. EVGA was mostly limited to North America, those companies either sell to the global market or at least all of Europe/Asia combined. Europe alone has over twice the population of the US. Then go look at that JPR graph again. It's a textbook fixed cost vs variable cost scenario. There's also a reason ASUS has been launching both NVIDIA and Radeon GPUs at MSRPs higher than all over AIBs.
     
    the_Scarlet_one
    I have not seen a single GPU announced with more than a single 12+4 connector. Not one. I am wondering if that is because NVidia is not allowing more than one connector on the 40 series, or if the true overclocking power hungry cards are being held back until later.



    Why would they, though? Kingpin & Galax HOF cards are not designed at yet at launch, they get months to show up. I'm sure there will be a Galax HOF card with two 12VHPWR connectors in six months from now, and it will probably cost well above the $3000 the last one did due to the extra power and cooling complexity required for such a monster.


    Have water, will cool. 
    #23
    dragomirc
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    Re: Nine AIBs have RTX 4090 !!! 2022/09/28 06:27:28 (permalink)
    kougar
     
    I mean, if you watched the video Steve did on the EVGA announcement he explains all of this pretty clearly. Look at the JPR AIB margin graph, then realize that every company you just named has a larger market size than EVGA did. EVGA was mostly limited to North America, those companies either sell to the global market or at least all of Europe/Asia combined. Europe alone has over twice the population of the US. Then go look at that JPR graph again. It's a textbook fixed cost vs variable cost scenario. There's also a reason ASUS has been launching both NVIDIA and Radeon GPUs at MSRPs higher than all over AIBs.

    OK, let's replay base facts.
    • EVGA quit GPU production because low profit margin (Nvidia dictated selling prices) and diverted calculated 4xxx financial pitfall.
    • EVGA was mostly limited to North America (smaller market share than other AIBs).
    • All other AIBs has a larger market size than EVGA did (much larger market share than EVGA).
    • Nvidia force AIBs to sell GPUs with low profit margin (or even lose money)
    Common sense dictate conclusion that larger Nvidia GPU market share AIBs have - they lose more.
     
    Buy your logic, larger Nvidia GPUs market share makes for AIBs possible to continuously produce unprofitable cards.
    Strongly disagree with your opinion.

    EVGA GPU diminishing is hurting me.
    #24
    yaymz
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    Re: Nine AIBs have RTX 4090 !!! 2022/09/28 12:07:50 (permalink)
    the_Scarlet_one
    jackrabbit2022
    Overclocking has been dead for some time. The average person is where the money is at and they do not care about overclocking. As for extreme overclocking, that is beyond niche. Let it die, it's pointless at this stage.


    Nah, it isn’t pointless. It shows how the PCB can be improved over and over and over, where NVidia thinks it knows what is best and keeps being proven wrong.

    It’s pointless for lowly consumers, but it isn’t pointless for the hardware itself. That is why Intel continues to push the extreme overclocking events. It has nothing to do with lowly consumers.

    If you don’t want anything to donwoth overclocking, please only purchase the lowest tier and most basic motherboards on the market, and never buy a K sku CPU.

    Yea I agree here.  Anyone who is capable of dropping a GPU into a computer is also capable of and probably looking into comparing GPU basics like clock speeds, and even if it is a small AIB overclock, it means something.
     
    #25
    namcost
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    Re: Nine AIBs have RTX 4090 !!! 2022/09/29 16:35:19 (permalink)
    This whole "CEO wants to spend time with family" is NOT a logical reason to gut your business that you profit from. A dead/failed business will NOT support his family.... who cares if you can spend time with your family if you can't feed them and cloth them.... A lot of people are taking what EVGA said for face value and that's just a huge LOL. The family excuse is just that, an excuse. My best friend owns his own business and has PLENTY of time to spend with his kids. A business owner LITERALLY makes their own hours. A CEO could legit go to work 2 hours a day and cover everything they need to in that time, and then go golfing.... You think Jeff Bezos sits in an office 80+ hours a week? hell no. He spends most of his time doing whatever the eff he wants like putting William Shatner into low orbit.... You think Jenson from Nvidia spends 80 hours a week at his office? Jenson doesn't make the GPU, his employees do.... same with EVGA, Andrew Han doesn't make the GPU's, his team of "experts" do.... he just tells them WHAT to do..... Lets try to use some common sense here.....

    EVGA claiming they can't profit from GPU's.... or maybe they don't "profit enough" but that comes down to sourcing components. Maybe their suppliers were too expensive. Maybe some parts were "high end" that don't need to be, but did so for "quality" reasons which reduces profit but increases quality. There are so many aspects to a simple comment that people aren't thinking about.... So with that in mind, just because EVGA claims low profit doesn't mean these others brands are sitting in low profit land. AND IF their profit was THAT LOW, why wouldn't they all join EVGA in this clearly defined boycott.... and the answer is, they still profit. Its possible EVGA just refuses to get new suppliers who are cheaper, or whatever. I can right now go to two different websites for electronics parts, and they will have different prices and I'm talking suppliers not your typical consumer websites. A few months from now the cheaper one might become the expensive one and the expensive one becomes the cheaper one.... because prices and such fluctuate. 

    Either EVGA is a dead company, and eventually the CEO will either HAVE to step down or the company goes broke, or on the back side, quiet, they are working towards going with team blue or red for making discreet gpu's. And as such, its going to take TIME, MONEY, and LEARNING said brands to offer a product. Which means they wont have new gpu's from any brand, any time soon. Maybe 6-8 months MINIMUM before they could even begin to talk about making gpu's for AMD or Intel. MINIMUM! I honestly don't think Andrew Han would destroy EVGA "just to spend time with his family" when he could have easily made the company public, or just stepped down as CEO.... it just doesn't make sense. Logic isn't used often these days.... and logically it don't make sense.
    #26
    dragomirc
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    Re: Nine AIBs have RTX 4090 !!! 2022/09/29 17:25:09 (permalink)
    Huh, what took you so long?
    Fresh air of logic thinking is well needed here.

    EVGA GPU diminishing is hurting me.
    #27
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