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AnsweredNew build RAM question

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pitbullonyourheelz
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2020/02/11 22:23:29 (permalink)
Hi all, it's literally been years since I've visited the forums. I have not gamed online in several years either. Life. It's nice to be back and see the community thriving with some familiar names and a LOT of new ones in the threads I've been reading voraciously. I'm still WAY behind the tech curve. Up until 2 weeks ago, I hadn't heard of NVMe or M.2. or RTX. That's how far I'm behind, yeah. Sorry guys and gals, I will get up to speed quickly ;)
My first rig (780i SLI) I built survived after several major surgeries over 10 years with barely any use over the last 5.
I JUST got the Z390FTW, EVGA 2080 SuperXC Gaming, 9900KF, 850w, AIO 360mm (I will update specs in profile when build is complete) still waiting on a few parts before commencing the build. I need help, please.
I'm in need of advice on RAM and I'm sure this question is asked a lot. I'm feeling like a nub and a tad overwhelmed. One minute I want the max supported 4133 and the next I'll think 'nah, be sensible' and look for some 3200.
Would someone please explain to me the pitfalls or advantages of getting the 4133? I will be doing small jobs rendering in Premiere, AutoCAD, SolidWorks and Maya as well as ton of gaming. I'd say 75% gaming
Are there inherently more stability issues with higher clock speeds? Thanks in advance, I know help is on the way!
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Sajin
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Re: New build RAM question 2020/02/11 22:32:08 (permalink)
Higher speed ram than 2666 (Intel rated max for 9900KF) could definitely cause stability issues if not setup correctly, and even then if you get a cpu that has a weak imc (integrated memory controller) you may be forced to run the 4133 kit at a lower speed due to a weak imc. Overclocking components also puts more wear and tear on them.

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kevinc313
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Re: New build RAM question 2020/02/12 15:05:51 (permalink) ☼ Best Answerby pitbullonyourheelz 2020/02/12 18:29:09
EVGA claims up to 4133 mhz on their QVL with a specific kit but some people have reported issues.  G.Skill's QVL only goes up to 3600 mhz and imho it's pretty likely they tested faster kits but they didn't pass their tests.  Your safest bet is a kit that appears on both QVL's.
 
https://www.gskill.com/configurator?page=1&cls=1529635169&adSearch2=Tested_Speed%C2%A73600MHz,&manufacturer=1524715213&chipset=1539226140&model=1539226162
 
Granted if you really know what you're doing it's possible to tune something with good results vs. XMP, but ymmv.
 
The FTW supposedly has a daisy chain memory topology but the g.skill QVL reads more like a T-topology board in it's lack of faster 2x8 kits vs. 4x8 kits.  But in theory the daisy chain should support 2x8 really well.
 
As a side note, some of the the best high speed memory support on an available reasonable priced Z390 MB is the MSI Z390M Gaming Edge AC, which goes up to 4266CL19 2x8gb and 4000CL19 2x16gb QVL.  Buildzoid/AHOC has done extensive testing on the Z390I version with really good results and it cpu overclocks well too.  That z390m board with a 9700K and a 2080S FTW3 Ultra would be a top choice if I was building from scratch today.  I've got the normal Z390 Edge AC and recently upgraded to 4000CL19 2x16 b-die, fastest 32gb on QVL, runs well.
 
OTOH, Asus has T-topology and really good 4x8gb support on most of their Z390 boards, mostly 4266 4x8 and 4133 2x8.  Pretty much the fastest XMP 32gb you can get, on their cheaper boards too.
 
Rule of thumb with memory on Intel, it seems like low latency is more important for workstation/productivity apps while higher clocks / bandwidth is more important for max gaming FPS assuming you're not GPU limited. 
 
In the end, I'd say to get a 3600CL16 4x8gb kit that appears on the G.Skill QVL and call it good.  Those kits don't appear on the EVGA QVL, but yolo.
 
EDIT: The b-die kits, see below.
 
post edited by kevinc313 - 2020/02/13 21:22:59
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pitbullonyourheelz
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Re: New build RAM question 2020/02/12 18:29:54 (permalink)
Thanks for the info. That kit will do just fine.
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kevinc313
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Re: New build RAM question 2020/02/13 21:19:18 (permalink)
pitbullonyourheelz
Thanks for the info. That kit will do just fine.




Just to be clear, I'm recommending the 3600 Samsung b-die kits with 16-16-16-36 timings, they aren't cheap.  I looked again and there are some 16-19-19-39 kits that will probably have no noticeable performance difference and are cheaper, but they just aren't the b-die.  The b-die has higher quality, tighter timings and more OC headroom, many people buy it just because of it's stellar reputation even if they don't really need it.
post edited by kevinc313 - 2020/02/13 21:29:19
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pitbullonyourheelz
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Re: New build RAM question 2020/02/14 05:39:20 (permalink)
I'll go with the B-die. Thanks.
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RainStryke
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Re: New build RAM question 2020/02/14 06:18:48 (permalink)
RAM speed benefits will vary per program or game. Some games will show barely any difference on RAM speeds past 3600MHz and it is generally a pretty good frequency for a mix of performance and stability. I have a i7 9700K that paired well with a 4266MHz kit for a good while but I suspect the voltage on the XMP profile is causing degradation and i'm having to process an RMA on that kit now since I can't seem to get it stable on any CPU. I have a 3600MHz CL18 kit that worked just fine, but asthetics of the kit was bothering me so I went with this kit:
https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232938


Performance between the two was not really noticeable in the games I currently play. But I do remember when playing PUBG, I gained FPS like crazy, 20-30FPS gains on my average frame rate.

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pitbullonyourheelz
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Re: New build RAM question 2020/02/14 06:32:22 (permalink)
I'm gonna try 2 of these for 32gb total and see what it does. https://www.newegg.com/te...dram/p/N82E16820331244
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kevinc313
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Re: New build RAM question 2020/02/14 07:08:32 (permalink)
pitbullonyourheelz
I'm gonna try 2 of these for 32gb total and see what it does. https://www.newegg.com/te...dram/p/N82E16820331244




Hah, that was going to be my other recommendation but didn't want to over complicate it.  Should be able to clock it well, but I doubt XMP will be stable with two kits.  Maybe if you crank the voltage.
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RainStryke
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Re: New build RAM question 2020/02/14 07:13:04 (permalink)
Same as Kevin said, I wouldn't recommend it, for XMP to work in that configuration you need to buy it in a kit that way, otherwise it's a gamble.

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kevinc313
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Re: New build RAM question 2020/02/14 07:30:30 (permalink)
RainStryke
Same as Kevin said, I wouldn't recommend it, for XMP to work in that configuration you need to buy it in a kit that way, otherwise it's a gamble.




Yeah I'll guess that one kit might boot on XMP but won't be all that stable.  The 4133 kit on the EVGA QVL has looser timings.  Two kits probably won't train and boot at straight XMP.  Maybe at 1.5V and elevated SA/IO but I still doubt it.  EVGA QVL's 3733CL17 4x8 and 3866CL18 4x4, so you should be able to do at least that if not a bit better with custom timings.   The ram itself is a good high bin.
 
I had 64GB from two kits of cheapish 2x16 that were not on my MB QVL.  Even with down clocking it would still WHEA error BSD occasionally which sucked.  Never tried to do some serious clocking with it, I don't have the advanced skills.  The new ram I got which is much faster and on the QVL is much more stable.
post edited by kevinc313 - 2020/02/14 07:35:01
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pitbullonyourheelz
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Re: New build RAM question 2020/02/14 07:43:04 (permalink)
Having mentally applied the brakes again, I guess I really should look @ the 3600 for the simple fact that I know just enough to get me into trouble but not enough to easily rectify a possible stability issue with the 4133 without spending countless, frustrating hours at the beginning of a build. I don't want that because that's what happened on my first one. It would be the safer, more sensible route for now and if I like it, I can always get a faster kit in the future and have some fun tinkering. Plus, I'm not gonna even try to OC this FTW anyway. Gonna upgrade to a Dark methinks very soon.
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kevinc313
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Re: New build RAM question 2020/02/14 08:01:55 (permalink)
pitbullonyourheelz
Having mentally applied the brakes again, I guess I really should look @ the 3600 for the simple fact that I know just enough to get me into trouble but not enough to easily rectify a possible stability issue with the 4133 without spending countless, frustrating hours at the beginning of a build. I don't want that because that's what happened on my first one. It would be the safer, more sensible route for now and if I like it, I can always get a faster kit in the future and have some fun tinkering. Plus, I'm not gonna even try to OC this FTW anyway. Gonna upgrade to a Dark methinks very soon.




Like I said at my first post, the safest bet is a kit that is QVL on both the EVGA and ram vendor lists. OK to risk a high clock if it's QVL.  And available to purchase.
 
The 3600CL16 b-die is a good bet because it's generally very good ram and runs on a lot of MB's.
 
3200CL14 b-die is the can't miss option, absolutely will work great, because it runs on everything, is good all around and priced reasonably.
 
 
post edited by kevinc313 - 2020/02/14 08:04:20
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pitbullonyourheelz
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Re: New build RAM question 2020/02/14 08:11:42 (permalink)
This is what I'm getting https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232348
I've had this same kit in my cart ten different times over the last two weeks. Looks solid for my platform
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RainStryke
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Re: New build RAM question 2020/02/14 08:19:54 (permalink)
We'll probably see the new Z490 chipset around June/July... Hard to justify a premium board when a new generation is about to come out.
 
Your board supports this RAM on the QVL list. If you want the 4133MHz RAM, you have one of the most capable CPU's to get there. DDR4 RAM run's at 1.2v native, so anything over that is pushing the voltage. From what I have seen, it seems 1.35v is a pretty good spot to be at.

pitbullonyourheelz
This is what I'm getting https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232348
I've had this same kit in my cart ten different times over the last two weeks. Looks solid for my platform




I would spend the extra $50 and get this kit instead:
https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-64gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232452?&quicklink=true

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kevinc313
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Re: New build RAM question 2020/02/14 08:34:48 (permalink)
pitbullonyourheelz
This is what I'm getting https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232348
I've had this same kit in my cart ten different times over the last two weeks. Looks solid for my platform




You're paying about a $45 premium for the 4x8 kit vs. the 2x16 kit, same exact chips and performance, but obviously if you want 4 sticks you have to pay.
 
https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232379?Item=N82E16820232379
post edited by kevinc313 - 2020/02/14 08:38:35
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