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Hot!New Z690 / 3090 KPE / WC MO-RA 420 / EK build is here!!

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redteamgo
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Re: New Z690 / 3090 KPE / EK build coming!! 2022/09/12 19:38:01 (permalink)
this processor is hilarious.  peak TDP of 345w lol
 
 
PR 14981.  humbug
+1500m/110c/121p
https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/79496434
post edited by redteamgo - 2022/09/12 20:01:06

CPU:     Intel 12900K EK 1700 Quantum Mag Acetel
GPU:     EVGA 3090 KPHC
MB:      EVGA Z690 Dark
PSU:     EVGA SuperNOVA 1600 P+
Memory:  G.SKILL Z5 6600mhz XMP3
NVME:    Samsung 980 Pro Gen 4 1TB, Gen 3 970 1TB
Cooling: MO-RA3 420 P/P 8x200mm Noctua HS PWM, Dual D5
Case:    Fractal Design Define 7
 
MOD Rigs!!!
#31
redteamgo
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Re: New Z690 / 3090 KPE / EK build coming!! 2022/09/12 20:13:59 (permalink)
YES!!!
 
https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/79496609
 
PR 15052 at ambient 75F and stock voltage
+1550/+110/+121
 

 
the temps are really good though.  The MORA and airflow are doing good.  I really should put the XOC bios on and break out the classified tool.  I have a lot of temperature headroom.  I don't know how fast that will disappear at higher clocks but it would be interesting to find out.  really, hotspot can go all the way to 75 without being concerned when water cooled.  I need to read up on what to do as I don't want to pop my card.

CPU:     Intel 12900K EK 1700 Quantum Mag Acetel
GPU:     EVGA 3090 KPHC
MB:      EVGA Z690 Dark
PSU:     EVGA SuperNOVA 1600 P+
Memory:  G.SKILL Z5 6600mhz XMP3
NVME:    Samsung 980 Pro Gen 4 1TB, Gen 3 970 1TB
Cooling: MO-RA3 420 P/P 8x200mm Noctua HS PWM, Dual D5
Case:    Fractal Design Define 7
 
MOD Rigs!!!
#32
kougar
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Re: New Z690 / 3090 KPE / EK build coming!! 2022/09/13 21:43:24 (permalink)
redteamgo
 
morning Cool GTX, I am using Koolance QD3 10/16 compression fittings.  cheers!
 
 


Out of curiosity any particular reason ya went with QD3's over the QD4's?
 
Your build looks fantastic! Hitting all the right notes for what I've been planning myself for a silly long time ever since I snagged a MO-RA3 420 of my own from Sidewinders closing two years back. Just waiting on Zen 4 and B650 boards at this point to finally give it some use. 
 
I've been watching MO-RA builds for some time and I noticed you're one of the minority that actually uses the out-port at the top of the MO-RA directly into the reservoir. I'm surprised how many MO-RA builds actually don't do that and have overly complex tube routing because of it. Any thoughts or drawbacks you've noticed going that route?
 
redteamgo
 
I almost did the 9x2 140mm but 200mm is just a much better value.  each 200mm 1200rpm Noctua fan is <$30 direct from germany.  so you're buying 10 less fans at $30 a pop plus the 200mm moves much more air more quietly, even tho the max RPM is 1200 vs 1500 .  So "save" $300 by going with 200mm fans and be a bit quieter .  the choice is clear :P



I swear you literally are copying my planned build, not the other way around  My eyes popped when I noticed Watercool acquired chromax versions of the HS A20's this year. I even once emailed Noctua for the HS specs to directly compare against the base A20 but they informed me they weren't going to make it a regular model or add it to their own website. 
 
My question is what RPMs do you usually run them at, and about what RPM do they become audible even if it's just airflow noise to you? I'm still waffling on going regular A20s or going with the A20 HS fans... the base A20 wouldn't require fan controllers, but I'd need to arrange controllers and extra wiring if I go with the HS models. But the static pressure is so low on the stock A20's that even if I run the A20's run at 900-1KRPM it would probably be worth it I'm thinking... really wish I could just order one each from watercool to play with before hard-committing to eight of them but the shipping is too crazy!


Have water, will cool. 
#33
redteamgo
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Re: New Z690 / 3090 KPE / EK build coming!! 2022/09/14 06:15:28 (permalink)
kougar
redteamgo
 
morning Cool GTX, I am using Koolance QD3 10/16 compression fittings.  cheers!
 
 


Out of curiosity any particular reason ya went with QD3's over the QD4's?
 
Your build looks fantastic! Hitting all the right notes for what I've been planning myself for a silly long time ever since I snagged a MO-RA3 420 of my own from Sidewinders closing two years back. Just waiting on Zen 4 and B650 boards at this point to finally give it some use. 
 
I've been watching MO-RA builds for some time and I noticed you're one of the minority that actually uses the out-port at the top of the MO-RA directly into the reservoir. I'm surprised how many MO-RA builds actually don't do that and have overly complex tube routing because of it. Any thoughts or drawbacks you've noticed going that route?
 
redteamgo
 
I almost did the 9x2 140mm but 200mm is just a much better value.  each 200mm 1200rpm Noctua fan is <$30 direct from germany.  so you're buying 10 less fans at $30 a pop plus the 200mm moves much more air more quietly, even tho the max RPM is 1200 vs 1500 .  So "save" $300 by going with 200mm fans and be a bit quieter .  the choice is clear :P



I swear you literally are copying my planned build, not the other way around  My eyes popped when I noticed Watercool acquired chromax versions of the HS A20's this year. I even once emailed Noctua for the HS specs to directly compare against the base A20 but they informed me they weren't going to make it a regular model or add it to their own website. 
 
My question is what RPMs do you usually run them at, and about what RPM do they become audible even if it's just airflow noise to you? I'm still waffling on going regular A20s or going with the A20 HS fans... the base A20 wouldn't require fan controllers, but I'd need to arrange controllers and extra wiring if I go with the HS models. But the static pressure is so low on the stock A20's that even if I run the A20's run at 900-1KRPM it would probably be worth it I'm thinking... really wish I could just order one each from watercool to play with before hard-committing to eight of them but the shipping is too crazy!


Hey kougar thanks for popping in.  I'm pretty sure the QD4 is for 13/19 tubing only.  The QD3 is for 10/16 and 13/16.  I use 10/16 with G1/4 threads.  10/16 is great because really, the compression collars are extremely secure and the larger tube wall helps with bends/kinks.  I wanted to keep the inner diameter about the same throughout the loop so I don't create any unnecessary back pressure from changing the inner diameter in two places.  that is why I have one pump pushing "in" to the MO-RA and the other pump pushing "out" of the MO-RA on each side of the QDC.  not perfect but about as good as it's going to get.  I have a few more sets of QDCs for the GPU and CPU but I'm pretty sure I'll only be using the GPU set when I get around to it.
 
as far as the EDPM plumbing in/out of the MORA, I saw the more complex builds too.  once the HK pump is primed and there is sufficient loop equilibrium, what difference does it make?  the exit pressure from each pump pulls from the top.  So.. what's the difference?  I was unable to find a good answer to that so I went with simplicity.  Heck, if someone has a technical explanation on why inlet/outlet is better than outlet/top multiport, I'm all ears.  I'm not too good to learn a thing :)
 
As far as fans, I'd definitely go with the HS A20s vs A20s or 140mms.  They have a max rpm of 1200rpm per spec.  The non HS versions cost the same money and only hit 800rpms.  Mine only get to 1100 but thats still 300 rpms better than the slower fan for the same money.  not perfect but I'll take it I guess.  They are truly silent at 40% or 480rpms.  No ringing, no whooshing, nothing.  At 100% or 1100+/- rpms, they are slightly more quiet than the Noctua NF-A14 at 100%.  the noise they produce is much more of a whoosh than a whine, like a 120 or 90mm.
 
My daily drive fan profile which I can also game on with overclocks is 50% case fans, 60% MORA.  so 750rpm case, 720 rpm MORA +/-.  its not silent but its incredibly quiet for the heat that the build generates.
 
now when I try to do a maximum sustained overclock for a bench or want to crank up the game OC, the MORA with fans at 100% is a whole different animal.  the rad puts off heat, sure.  But P/P 200mm fans move a comical amount of air, even with the partially restrictive side-by-side orientation of the cooler and my case right now.  but the entrance temp and exit temp feel significantly different.  I should get a pool bobber and throw it in the HK res and call it a day lol.
 
the other big thing I have observed is that getting the rads and obstructions out of the case and going fully external makes a big difference.  everyone says airflow counts, yada yada yada, it but its true.  case airflow counts.  there is only so much you can do when you have 4 rads in your build.  but if you get rid of all of the rads and its just fan city, I am able to sustain much higher memory overclocks at stock voltage and almost no change in reported temperatures.  I could hit those +mem numbers before but not at these temps.  the 3090 KPE backplate thread has a lot of detail on the insanity that went into my 3090 KPE, which I'll spare you from LOL.  you can see for yourself in some of the HWinfo screenshots.  it really becomes a matter of insufficient voltage and bios performance caps on power draw.
 
I would know the exact Delta T answer for some of this stuff but unfortunately the Z690 dark has no 2 pin T sensor, which baffles me.  $900 for a mobo and no temp sensor?  my $350 gigabyte z590 had two of them!  anyway, that is why I got the aquacomputer controller.  part of me wants to say forget it because the relative answer is good enough.  this post is getting long so I'll cut it off here. hope this helps with your build!
 
e: if youre really on the fence, LMK, I'll make a video for you at a few different fan % settings
post edited by redteamgo - 2022/09/14 06:20:34

CPU:     Intel 12900K EK 1700 Quantum Mag Acetel
GPU:     EVGA 3090 KPHC
MB:      EVGA Z690 Dark
PSU:     EVGA SuperNOVA 1600 P+
Memory:  G.SKILL Z5 6600mhz XMP3
NVME:    Samsung 980 Pro Gen 4 1TB, Gen 3 970 1TB
Cooling: MO-RA3 420 P/P 8x200mm Noctua HS PWM, Dual D5
Case:    Fractal Design Define 7
 
MOD Rigs!!!
#34
kougar
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Re: New Z690 / 3090 KPE / EK build coming!! 2022/09/14 15:48:49 (permalink)
Ah, that could be. And I understand, mixing tube sizes in a build is a terrible idea and especially bad in dual-pump builds since the flow rate will never match. I initially didn't clue in that the MO-RA3 came later in your build. 
 
Went with QD4s and the EK ZMT 1/2 x 3/4" tubing as I wanted to stick with high flow, and the DangerDen 1/2" Dreamflex tubing I'm using now was truly amazing stuff to work with. Unfortunately it was a DD custom formulation so I'm hoping ZMT is the next closest thing. But QD4s are like unheard of in builds, so stuff like that just makes me paranoid. 
 
 
redteamgothe other big thing I have observed is that getting the rads and obstructions out of the case and going fully external makes a big difference.  everyone says airflow counts, yada yada yada, it but its true.  case airflow counts.  there is only so much you can do when you have 4 rads in your build.  but if you get rid of all of the rads and its just fan city, I am able to sustain much higher memory overclocks at stock voltage and almost no change in reported temperatures.  I could hit those +mem numbers before but not at these temps.  the 3090 KPE backplate thread has a lot of detail on the insanity that went into my 3090 KPE, which I'll spare you from LOL.  you can see for yourself in some of the HWinfo screenshots.  it really becomes a matter of insufficient voltage and bios performance caps on power draw.


Yep, exactly! Airflow counts because that's the coolant. That's also the exact reason why I refused to ever build a system with a radiator on the intake fans. Even so in my current rig the inside case temp is warmer than I'd like. But I am tired of buying cases around radiator compatibility, I wanted a small, well-designed case and the MO-RA3 is perfect for enabling that. Nevermind it will be incredibly easy to disconnect the MO-RA3 and use a datavac on it outside, or that it will probably go a few years between needing more coolant.
 
Pretty crazy to me you're running the A20's below 800rpm! At that low a speed, you might get a degree or two lower temps by placing the MO-RA3 horizontal so the heat can convect upwards naturally.  Would tend to ruin such a convenient reservoir mount though, alas...  Thank you for the offer to record the fans! I might take you up on that but at the moment don't worry about it, hearing/recording is still such a subjective thing. But I do appreciate the offer! 
 
Going to be a few months yet before I can buy the parts, but I'll keep an eye on your build in the meantime! Your setup should be the ultimate in performance and ease-of-maintenance, with longevity that AIOs could only dream of. 


Have water, will cool. 
#35
donta1979
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Re: New Z690 / 3090 KPE / EK build coming!! 2022/09/15 10:02:04 (permalink)
Scores looking good man!

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#36
redteamgo
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Re: New Z690 / 3090 KPE / EK build coming!! 2022/11/06 07:11:48 (permalink)
For my own sanity in the event I have to clear the CMOS and can't remember later lol
 
Freq 7200
Gear 2
VDD 1.4
tCL 36
tRCD 46
tRP 46
tRAS 30
tRRDs 6
tRRDl 8
tFAW 24

CPU:     Intel 12900K EK 1700 Quantum Mag Acetel
GPU:     EVGA 3090 KPHC
MB:      EVGA Z690 Dark
PSU:     EVGA SuperNOVA 1600 P+
Memory:  G.SKILL Z5 6600mhz XMP3
NVME:    Samsung 980 Pro Gen 4 1TB, Gen 3 970 1TB
Cooling: MO-RA3 420 P/P 8x200mm Noctua HS PWM, Dual D5
Case:    Fractal Design Define 7
 
MOD Rigs!!!
#37
redteamgo
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Re: New Z690 / 3090 KPE / EK build coming!! 2022/11/22 09:14:39 (permalink)
turns out that my MORA inlet outlet configuration is pretty far from ideal.  i said before that "once both D5's are primed, what difference does it make?"
 
well,it turns out that its a big difference.  mora 420 has 36m of copper tubing and I made those poor D5's work against gravity.  kind of amazing they havent blown up.  ready fire aim!

CPU:     Intel 12900K EK 1700 Quantum Mag Acetel
GPU:     EVGA 3090 KPHC
MB:      EVGA Z690 Dark
PSU:     EVGA SuperNOVA 1600 P+
Memory:  G.SKILL Z5 6600mhz XMP3
NVME:    Samsung 980 Pro Gen 4 1TB, Gen 3 970 1TB
Cooling: MO-RA3 420 P/P 8x200mm Noctua HS PWM, Dual D5
Case:    Fractal Design Define 7
 
MOD Rigs!!!
#38
redteamgo
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Re: New Z690 / 3090 KPE / EK build coming!! 2022/11/23 14:52:51 (permalink)
reorientated the MORA inlet/outlet, replaced the EK pump with one that has working PWM, cleaned up tubing etc, spilled 702 coolant everywhere, plenty of cursing, 5 hours and 2 paper towels later, I am done.  very annoying
 
but the win is that the WCU pump does not have the same high pitched ringing from the pump imbalance due to the EK not working properly.. flow rates also improved a lot by not working against gravity in the MORA.  
 
once I started, I saw that EK's RMA sent me a SATA pump without braided cables not braided molex/pwm like the original after I made about 20 minutes of movies explaining to them why their pump doesnt work to spec.  ****s
 
used a different pump I had with the right connectors.  
post edited by redteamgo - 2022/11/23 15:18:19

CPU:     Intel 12900K EK 1700 Quantum Mag Acetel
GPU:     EVGA 3090 KPHC
MB:      EVGA Z690 Dark
PSU:     EVGA SuperNOVA 1600 P+
Memory:  G.SKILL Z5 6600mhz XMP3
NVME:    Samsung 980 Pro Gen 4 1TB, Gen 3 970 1TB
Cooling: MO-RA3 420 P/P 8x200mm Noctua HS PWM, Dual D5
Case:    Fractal Design Define 7
 
MOD Rigs!!!
#39
redteamgo
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Re: New Z690 / 3090 KPE / EK build coming!! 2022/11/24 06:15:54 (permalink)
pic dump.  got a new desk for some more room a bit ago.  happy turkey day everyone.
 

 



post edited by redteamgo - 2022/11/24 06:20:22

CPU:     Intel 12900K EK 1700 Quantum Mag Acetel
GPU:     EVGA 3090 KPHC
MB:      EVGA Z690 Dark
PSU:     EVGA SuperNOVA 1600 P+
Memory:  G.SKILL Z5 6600mhz XMP3
NVME:    Samsung 980 Pro Gen 4 1TB, Gen 3 970 1TB
Cooling: MO-RA3 420 P/P 8x200mm Noctua HS PWM, Dual D5
Case:    Fractal Design Define 7
 
MOD Rigs!!!
#40
Flybye
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Re: New Z690 / 3090 KPE / EK build coming!! 2022/11/24 07:06:28 (permalink)
Interesting and nice setup! I haven't played around with an external cooler like that in 15+ years.
 
Somewhere I think I read you were tapping 100c on full load. Did you end up buying the 1700 bracket?
 
Which Aqua controller did you get? I have the Octo, but I only use it to control fan speeds and view water & air temps. The software definitely has a lot of options to it.

Gaming thing
i9-12900KF @ 5.25GHz
EVGA: Z690 Classified - RTX 3080 FTW3 Ultra - Supernova 1200w P3 - DG-75
16GBs Patriot DDR5 4800 @ 5600 - Seagate: .5TB, 1TB M.2s, HD 4TB
Sony CRT 24" GDM-FW900 16:10 - DangerDen (RIP) Goodies: 2x120mm Rad & D5 + Primochill stuff
#41
redteamgo
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Re: New Z690 / 3090 KPE / EK build coming!! 2022/11/24 09:26:51 (permalink)
Flybye
Interesting and nice setup! I haven't played around with an external cooler like that in 15+ years.
 
Somewhere I think I read you were tapping 100c on full load. Did you end up buying the 1700 bracket?
 
Which Aqua controller did you get? I have the Octo, but I only use it to control fan speeds and view water & air temps. The software definitely has a lot of options to it.

Hey there, I think you read right.  In Prime95 workloads at 5.3/4.1 ghz pcore/ecore, its stable but it thermal throttles to 100 very quickly.  Under regular workloads, its far better.  Are you referring to a  contact frame made for 12th gen?  no i am using the retention mechanism that came with the Z690 Dark


I have the aquero XT6 but I didnt install it.  After fixing my MORA orientation, my flow rate is vastly improved and really temperatures didnt change much at all, which is good.  I'd rather just keep the 3x140mm
intake fans rather than 2x140 and the controller and more wires.
 
ps: happy thanksgiving!
 
post edited by redteamgo - 2022/11/24 09:54:54

CPU:     Intel 12900K EK 1700 Quantum Mag Acetel
GPU:     EVGA 3090 KPHC
MB:      EVGA Z690 Dark
PSU:     EVGA SuperNOVA 1600 P+
Memory:  G.SKILL Z5 6600mhz XMP3
NVME:    Samsung 980 Pro Gen 4 1TB, Gen 3 970 1TB
Cooling: MO-RA3 420 P/P 8x200mm Noctua HS PWM, Dual D5
Case:    Fractal Design Define 7
 
MOD Rigs!!!
#42
Flybye
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Re: New Z690 / 3090 KPE / EK build coming!! 2022/11/24 10:49:30 (permalink)
redteamgo
Flybye
Interesting and nice setup! I haven't played around with an external cooler like that in 15+ years.
 
Somewhere I think I read you were tapping 100c on full load. Did you end up buying the 1700 bracket?
 
Which Aqua controller did you get? I have the Octo, but I only use it to control fan speeds and view water & air temps. The software definitely has a lot of options to it.

Hey there, I think you read right.  In Prime95 workloads at 5.3/4.1 ghz pcore/ecore, its stable but it thermal throttles to 100 very quickly.  Under regular workloads, its far better.  Are you referring to a  contact frame made for 12th gen?  no i am using the retention mechanism that came with the Z690 Dark


I have the aquero XT6 but I didnt install it.  After fixing my MORA orientation, my flow rate is vastly improved and really temperatures didnt change much at all, which is good.  I'd rather just keep the 3x140mm
intake fans rather than 2x140 and the controller and more wires.
 
ps: happy thanksgiving!
 




Yeah this bracket:
https://www.microcenter.com/product/649280/thermal-grizzly-intel-12th-gen-cpu-contact-frame
 
There was a big discussion about it here, and I do believe it's been known to lower 100% load temps by 5-10c.
I haven't bothered to get it because I really don't feel like taking everything apart at this time. The only thing that drives me to 100% CPU is Cinebench which puts me just under 100c, but to finish it I had to put my fans at 100% and not use my front panel. But with gaming? I'm usually 50-60c with my fans at 50%. So why bother with the bracket for now lol.
 
Happy gooble gobble day as well!

Gaming thing
i9-12900KF @ 5.25GHz
EVGA: Z690 Classified - RTX 3080 FTW3 Ultra - Supernova 1200w P3 - DG-75
16GBs Patriot DDR5 4800 @ 5600 - Seagate: .5TB, 1TB M.2s, HD 4TB
Sony CRT 24" GDM-FW900 16:10 - DangerDen (RIP) Goodies: 2x120mm Rad & D5 + Primochill stuff
#43
redteamgo
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Re: New Z690 / 3090 KPE / EK build coming!! 2022/11/25 08:41:36 (permalink)
….
post edited by redteamgo - 2022/11/25 09:36:09

CPU:     Intel 12900K EK 1700 Quantum Mag Acetel
GPU:     EVGA 3090 KPHC
MB:      EVGA Z690 Dark
PSU:     EVGA SuperNOVA 1600 P+
Memory:  G.SKILL Z5 6600mhz XMP3
NVME:    Samsung 980 Pro Gen 4 1TB, Gen 3 970 1TB
Cooling: MO-RA3 420 P/P 8x200mm Noctua HS PWM, Dual D5
Case:    Fractal Design Define 7
 
MOD Rigs!!!
#44
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