EVGA

LockedHot!Ignore

Author
KeithW19
New Member
  • Total Posts : 47
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2021/02/01 17:47:20
  • Status: offline
  • Ribbons : 0
2021/07/26 09:25:00 (permalink)
EDIT: Link removed. I've been told that this article has misinformation and is not relevant to the issue
post edited by KeithW19 - 2021/07/27 06:37:06
#1

19 Replies Related Threads

    Jstandaert
    Superclocked Member
    • Total Posts : 242
    • Reward points : 0
    • Joined: 2021/04/10 16:36:16
    • Status: offline
    • Ribbons : 2
    Re: New World GPU Failures - Possible Answer 2021/07/26 09:29:36 (permalink)
    KeithW19
     
     
    This was noted in other threads here as well. So I'm wondering if its a combo of rev 0.1 cards and this issue that causes the failure. Rev 1.0 may handle it better because it never lets the PCIe slot draw more than 66w?


    I thought rev 0.1 were early release for press and content creators. they caught the issue and changed before mass production/shipping. EVGA even said they will swap out if you contact them?

    Save some Dough-Use my Code
     
     
    #2
    KeithW19
    New Member
    • Total Posts : 47
    • Reward points : 0
    • Joined: 2021/02/01 17:47:20
    • Status: offline
    • Ribbons : 0
    Re: New World GPU Failures - Possible Answer 2021/07/26 09:30:54 (permalink)
    There was a link that i tried to paste that didnt go. Its there now.
     
    From what I've seen Rev 0.1 was shipped until spring 2021. My card was bought in Jan 2021. I dont know this officially but its what others here in the forum have said
    #3
    homestyle
    Superclocked Member
    • Total Posts : 166
    • Reward points : 0
    • Joined: 2020/11/20 20:49:55
    • Status: offline
    • Ribbons : 0
    Re: New World GPU Failures - Possible Answer 2021/07/26 10:21:35 (permalink)
    How do you know if yours is a later version?
    #4
    the_Scarlet_one
    EVGA Forum Moderator
    • Total Posts : 22478
    • Reward points : 0
    • Joined: 2013/11/13 02:48:57
    • Location: East Coast
    • Status: offline
    • Ribbons : 77
    Re: New World GPU Failures - Possible Answer 2021/07/26 10:32:55 (permalink)
    Software reading and reporting is often incorrect. The software is intended to read the actual RPM, not the requested RPM. If you aren’t seeing the fan going 200,000 RPM for 1-2 milliseconds, then it isn’t happening.

    Just like the temp reading showing a temp of 6599c, it isn’t actually happening, the software is reporting incorrectly. If the sun suddenly heated up in your room, someone else would report on it, because anyone near by would be in the hospital from the burns, at a minimum.

    So, on to the next guess. PCGamer doesn’t know what they are taking about.
    post edited by the_Scarlet_one - 2021/07/26 10:36:06

    <- Main PC Specs
     
     <- Folding Rig Specs
     
     <- Laptop Specs
    #5
    belgradar
    New Member
    • Total Posts : 25
    • Reward points : 0
    • Joined: 2007/07/16 23:08:30
    • Status: offline
    • Ribbons : 0
    Re: New World GPU Failures - Possible Answer 2021/07/26 11:36:02 (permalink)
    I still think some of it is new world as after there latest patch the Heat on my 1660 super is now having trouble staying cool every 30 min I got to increase the fan speeds got up to 100% fan speed the other day had to shut the game off to get the card cool again. before there last patch this did not happen.  before it never got near 70c at 40% fan speeds
    #6
    KeithW19
    New Member
    • Total Posts : 47
    • Reward points : 0
    • Joined: 2021/02/01 17:47:20
    • Status: offline
    • Ribbons : 0
    Re: New World GPU Failures - Possible Answer 2021/07/26 17:14:53 (permalink)
    It would honestly be very difficult for a game to cause it. They just call APIs from DirectX. Its basically all but confirmed at this point that the rev 0.1 of the 3090 FTW3 cards had an improper power balance setup and a small 10A fuse that blows in certain situations. The underlying cause isnt perfectly clear but it seems like the 1.0 revision of the card works without the power issue
    #7
    kevinc313
    CLASSIFIED Member
    • Total Posts : 4084
    • Reward points : 0
    • Joined: 2019/02/28 09:27:55
    • Status: offline
    • Ribbons : 17
    Re: New World GPU Failures - Possible Answer 2021/07/26 19:02:50 (permalink)
    KeithW19
    EVGA's GPU fans are trying to hit 200,000 RPM in New World, that might explain a fried chip or two | PC Gamer
     
    This was noted in other threads here as well. So I'm wondering if its a combo of rev 0.1 cards and this issue that causes the failure. Rev 1.0 may handle it better because it never lets the PCIe slot draw more than 66w?
     
    EDIT: Link was removed?




    Like I said in the other thread, this article is ridiculous and misreports Igor's theory which is already dubious at best. 
     
    Aside from the 'normal' glitchy misreporting of the sensors by the software, how much power do you think is running the fans? They are rated at .55A each and 3500 rpm typically.  The card comes out of the box at 35 amps max (x 12V = 420w).  The card bios won't allow 100% PWM capping the fans at 3000 RPM, but let say it's theoretically possible the fan could get 100% PWM and went to 3500 RPM and .55 amps.  Each fan is on it's own beefy board header that is highly likely to be able to handle .55 amps. 
     
    But hey anything is possible and a circuit that is designed to handle thousands of hours of operation across a vast range of temperatures could blow out with .1-.2 amps of extra current for 15 minutes.  Or not.
     
    What's more likely is that as part of the protect mode, the card intentionally 'fails' to solid 5V or no signal on the PWM line, giving the 'crazy' full 3500 RPM.  Keep in mind we're talking about 'gamers' here who can't handle a 120mm fan above 1500 rpm.
    post edited by kevinc313 - 2021/07/26 19:23:33
    #8
    HeavyHemi
    Insert Custom Title Here
    • Total Posts : 15081
    • Reward points : 0
    • Joined: 2008/11/28 20:31:42
    • Location: Western Washington
    • Status: offline
    • Ribbons : 116
    Re: New World GPU Failures - Possible Answer 2021/07/26 19:10:35 (permalink)
    kevinc313
    KeithW19
    EVGA's GPU fans are trying to hit 200,000 RPM in New World, that might explain a fried chip or two | PC Gamer
     
    This was noted in other threads here as well. So I'm wondering if its a combo of rev 0.1 cards and this issue that causes the failure. Rev 1.0 may handle it better because it never lets the PCIe slot draw more than 66w?
     
    EDIT: Link was removed?




    Like I said in the other thread, this article is ridiculous and misreports Igor's theory which is already dubious at best. 
     
    Aside from the 'normal' glitchy misreporting of the sensors by the software, how much power do you think is running the fans? They are rated at .55A each and 3500 rpm typically.  The card comes out of the box at 35 amps max (x 12V = 420w).  The card bios won't allow 100% PWM capping the fans at 3000 RPM, but let say it's theoretically possible the fan could get 100% PWM and went to 3500 RPM and .55 amps.  Each fan is on it's own beefy board header that is highly likely to be able to handle .55 amps. 
     
    But hey anything is possible and a circuit that is designed to handle thousands of hours of operation across a vast range of temperatures could blow out with .1-.2 amps of extra current for 15 minutes.  Or not.


    'This does potentially point to the underlying issue with the hardware monitoring silicon on EVGA's cards. When you're hitting as much as 1,000–2,000 fps that means frames are being rendered in less than 1ms, which can be quicker than the monitoring chip can respond to. Fan speeds shoot up, power draw goes off the charts, and the card then fails.'
     
    Yes, this claim is, for lack of a better word, dumb. The fan monitoring chip is not reading the FPS of the game. 

    EVGA X99 FTWK / i7 6850K 4.5ghz / GTX1080 Ti FE Hybrid / 32GB Corsair LPX 3200mhz / Samsung 850Pro 256GB / Corsair AX1200 / Window 10 Pro
    Fire Strike                        24,163
    Fire  Strike Extreme        14,452 
    Fire Strike Ultra                7,711 
    Time Spy                        10,357

    #9
    ty_ger07
    Insert Custom Title Here
    • Total Posts : 18580
    • Reward points : 0
    • Joined: 2008/04/10 23:48:15
    • Location: traveler
    • Status: offline
    • Ribbons : 211
    Re: New World GPU Failures - Possible Answer 2021/07/26 19:23:35 (permalink)
    HeavyHemi
    kevinc313
    KeithW19
    EVGA's GPU fans are trying to hit 200,000 RPM in New World, that might explain a fried chip or two | PC Gamer
     
    This was noted in other threads here as well. So I'm wondering if its a combo of rev 0.1 cards and this issue that causes the failure. Rev 1.0 may handle it better because it never lets the PCIe slot draw more than 66w?
     
    EDIT: Link was removed?




    Like I said in the other thread, this article is ridiculous and misreports Igor's theory which is already dubious at best. 
     
    Aside from the 'normal' glitchy misreporting of the sensors by the software, how much power do you think is running the fans? They are rated at .55A each and 3500 rpm typically.  The card comes out of the box at 35 amps max (x 12V = 420w).  The card bios won't allow 100% PWM capping the fans at 3000 RPM, but let say it's theoretically possible the fan could get 100% PWM and went to 3500 RPM and .55 amps.  Each fan is on it's own beefy board header that is highly likely to be able to handle .55 amps. 
     
    But hey anything is possible and a circuit that is designed to handle thousands of hours of operation across a vast range of temperatures could blow out with .1-.2 amps of extra current for 15 minutes.  Or not.


    'This does potentially point to the underlying issue with the hardware monitoring silicon on EVGA's cards. When you're hitting as much as 1,000–2,000 fps that means frames are being rendered in less than 1ms, which can be quicker than the monitoring chip can respond to. Fan speeds shoot up, power draw goes off the charts, and the card then fails.'
     
    Yes, this claim is, for lack of a better word, dumb. The fan monitoring chip is not reading the FPS of the game. 


    And it completely disregards the fact that the overcurrent protection is part of the power stages themselves, which are able to react instantaneously, and are not in any way tied to the limits of the fan controller or the game's FPS.  1 ms is nothing compared to the power stages operating at something like 0.005 ms.
    #10
    kevinc313
    CLASSIFIED Member
    • Total Posts : 4084
    • Reward points : 0
    • Joined: 2019/02/28 09:27:55
    • Status: offline
    • Ribbons : 17
    Re: New World GPU Failures - Possible Answer 2021/07/26 20:10:12 (permalink)
    So I've re-read the Igor's article for the Nth time, and could accept the following.
     
    - Card is operating at sustained Vrel, meaning it's on such a light load / high FPS that the core voltage is pegged at max allowed, depending on where the OC software voltage slider is set, and is at the max frequency the card could be allowed to boost to.  One of the screen shots shows 1950mhz at 1.081V and 250w.
     
    - Perhaps this state of operation is triggering a bios fan response of full fans, prior to going into protect mode.  People say you're not typically supposed to run the cards at max voltage, but I've done it plenty of times so who knows.
     
    - This state of operation could be throwing high frequency hash (EMI/RFI) that leaks into the fan RPM reading circuit, resulting in the false 200K readings.
     
    - Still think the popularity of undervolting among gamers, the lack of montoring especially of vram junction temps, or not using X1 ever (auto firmware update) could be a factor here.  Not sure what happens if you take a card on an AB undervolt curve and put it on the high power load the game is capable of vs. it being on an uncapped FPS light load like the menu.
    #11
    KeithW19
    New Member
    • Total Posts : 47
    • Reward points : 0
    • Joined: 2021/02/01 17:47:20
    • Status: offline
    • Ribbons : 0
    Re: New World GPU Failures - Possible Answer 2021/07/26 20:18:09 (permalink)
    I think it's a pretty tall order to expect consumers to monitor those temps. Unless you are meaning that the manufacturer should build in monitoring then I agree. I was using X1 for mine and HWInfo for junction temps but only checked those when I played with OCing the card but I didn't even use the OC settings. The card crushed games without any OC so for me getting 300 fps didn't matter when I capped my games to ~140 fps for my GSync monitor.

    I've read now that there are "red lips" and "black lips" versions of the cards and that one of them fixes something with PWM monitoring to possibly 2 separate issues but it could be an indicator of an underlying issue as you mentioned above.

    Either way I think EVGA really needs to release something official. I'm really hoping any replacements are Rev 1.0

    Edited for scatter brained nonsense. Should make sense now... I hope
    post edited by KeithW19 - 2021/07/26 20:25:30
    #12
    kevinc313
    CLASSIFIED Member
    • Total Posts : 4084
    • Reward points : 0
    • Joined: 2019/02/28 09:27:55
    • Status: offline
    • Ribbons : 17
    Re: New World GPU Failures - Possible Answer 2021/07/27 05:17:11 (permalink)
    KeithW19

    I think it's a pretty tall order to expect consumers to monitor those temps. Unless you are meaning that the manufacturer should build in monitoring then I agree. I was using X1 for mine and HWInfo for junction temps but only checked those when I played with OCing the card but I didn't even use the OC settings. The card crushed games without any OC so for me getting 300 fps didn't matter when I capped my games to ~140 fps for my GSync monitor.




    People are free to operate their cards however they like and they are free to 'enjoy' the results of that operation, then complain about it on the internet.
    #13
    KeithW19
    New Member
    • Total Posts : 47
    • Reward points : 0
    • Joined: 2021/02/01 17:47:20
    • Status: offline
    • Ribbons : 0
    Re: New World GPU Failures - Possible Answer 2021/07/27 06:03:24 (permalink)
    kevinc313
     
     
    People are free to operate their cards however they like and they are free to 'enjoy' the results of that operation, then complain about it on the internet.




    You know, i tried giving you the benefit of the doubt. Even when you were being super condescending at least you seemed knowledgeable. But now you are literally positing that its the users fault for trying to play a game with their $2500 GPU and suggesting that they should be glued to some obscure metrics that no other card has required to be monitored or else its their fault. Not the huge corporation who made/engineered the card incorrectly (and is replacing them because of it) but the regular person who just fired up a game and got their GPU bricked. I dont know if its because you just have something against me or maybe you've been here too long and are jaded, but tearing people down (especially when they've done nothing wrong) instead of helping people out is the complete opposite of what a forum is for.
     
    Bottom line, if I buy a $2500 GPU (hell... any GPU) and it breaks under the exact usage it was designed for. That is the manufacturers fault. And EVGA agrees.
     
    Now if you are some extreme overclocker and are flashing BIOSes to your card, then yes... monitor those things because you are operating the card out of spec. Oddly enough though it seems like EVGA even supports those people as well without any disclaimers or requirements for monitoring. So yes, you are better than all of us. You are more knowledgeable and you monitor things better than anyone else here. You will never suffer a bad card from faulty hardware because you will just stop playing that game because thats a normal thing to do. "Hey guys, I'd love to keep playing but my <obscure metric> went a little high so I'll never be able to play this game again with you. Yeah I know I just bought it for $60-$80 but this card just wasnt made to play it. Maybe it'll play the next one we try!"
     
    #14
    kevinc313
    CLASSIFIED Member
    • Total Posts : 4084
    • Reward points : 0
    • Joined: 2019/02/28 09:27:55
    • Status: offline
    • Ribbons : 17
    Re: New World GPU Failures - Possible Answer 2021/07/27 06:17:32 (permalink)
    KeithW19
    kevinc313
     
     
    People are free to operate their cards however they like and they are free to 'enjoy' the results of that operation, then complain about it on the internet.




    You know, i tried giving you the benefit of the doubt. Even when you were being super condescending at least you seemed knowledgeable. But now you are literally positing that its the users fault for trying to play a game with their $2500 GPU and suggesting that they should be glued to some obscure metrics that no other card has required to be monitored or else its their fault. Not the huge corporation who made/engineered the card incorrectly (and is replacing them because of it) but the regular person who just fired up a game and got their GPU bricked. I dont know if its because you just have something against me or maybe you've been here too long and are jaded, but tearing people down (especially when they've done nothing wrong) instead of helping people out is the complete opposite of what a forum is for.
     
    Bottom line, if I buy a $2500 GPU (hell... any GPU) and it breaks under the exact usage it was designed for. That is the manufacturers fault. And EVGA agrees.
     
    Now if you are some extreme overclocker and are flashing BIOSes to your card, then yes... monitor those things because you are operating the card out of spec. Oddly enough though it seems like EVGA even supports those people as well without any disclaimers or requirements for monitoring. So yes, you are better than all of us. You are more knowledgeable and you monitor things better than anyone else here. You will never suffer a bad card from faulty hardware because you will just stop playing that game because thats a normal thing to do. "Hey guys, I'd love to keep playing but my <obscure metric> went a little high so I'll never be able to play this game again with you. Yeah I know I just bought it for $60-$80 but this card just wasnt made to play it. Maybe it'll play the next one we try!"
     




    Lots of handwaving and straw men here.
     
    If I do have an issue it's with you spamming a ridiculous article in at least three places.
     
    I do not care about the "EVGA says should run fine out of the box whatever I do, it's an appliance!" argument and I'm not going to debate it with you because you are not knowledgeable enough to have a valid point about it. 
    #15
    random_matt
    CLASSIFIED Member
    • Total Posts : 2076
    • Reward points : 0
    • Joined: 2010/07/23 15:18:58
    • Location: Canterbury
    • Status: offline
    • Ribbons : 0
    Re: New World GPU Failures - Possible Answer 2021/07/27 06:20:00 (permalink)
    Buildzoid has already spoken about it, the best theory to consider.

    Lian Li PC-O10WX | Corsair SF750 | Asrock X570 Aqua | Ryzen 3900X | Under H20 | Corsair Dominator |
    Corsair MP600 | Sapphire Radeon VII | Noiseblocker eLoop x 4 | Dell S3220 | Alienware 610M | Windows 10
     
     
    #16
    KeithW19
    New Member
    • Total Posts : 47
    • Reward points : 0
    • Joined: 2021/02/01 17:47:20
    • Status: offline
    • Ribbons : 0
    Re: New World GPU Failures - Possible Answer 2021/07/27 06:27:04 (permalink)
    Lol so you dont think a GPU should work out of the box? I do like how you avoid arguments by making ridiculous claims so you can look like its beneath you. I assume when you drive your car you must have the diagnostic port hooked just staring at the screen?
     
    I posted a link to an article yes because it seemed relevant. I apologize oh GPU master for not being well versed on the inner workings of a GPU. Once again you are better than all of us.
     
    Next time I buy a GPU I'll ask the manufacturer which games I should avoid because their hardware cant handle it and which metrics they require me to monitor so that their engineering issue wont kill it.
    #17
    the_Scarlet_one
    EVGA Forum Moderator
    • Total Posts : 22478
    • Reward points : 0
    • Joined: 2013/11/13 02:48:57
    • Location: East Coast
    • Status: offline
    • Ribbons : 77
    Re: New World GPU Failures - Possible Answer 2021/07/27 06:40:57 (permalink)
    KeithW19
    It would honestly be very difficult for a game to cause it. They just call APIs from DirectX. Its basically all but confirmed at this point that the rev 0.1 of the 3090 FTW3 cards had an improper power balance setup and a small 10A fuse that blows in certain situations. The underlying cause isnt perfectly clear but it seems like the 1.0 revision of the card works without the power issue


    Have you never heard of a power virus? There was a very good power virus written and could kill cards, and people were directly instructed not to use it because it was damaging cards. It was called Furmark, and it was very good at stressing cards in a way that killed them, so to say “it would be difficult for a game to cause it” is easily proven wrong. Even Furmark had to be patched so that it didn’t kill GPU’s. So, yeah, it’s possible that software could be exposing issues that otherwise would never be a problem.

    <- Main PC Specs
     
     <- Folding Rig Specs
     
     <- Laptop Specs
    #18
    kevinc313
    CLASSIFIED Member
    • Total Posts : 4084
    • Reward points : 0
    • Joined: 2019/02/28 09:27:55
    • Status: offline
    • Ribbons : 17
    Re: New World GPU Failures - Possible Answer 2021/07/27 06:49:31 (permalink)
    KeithW19
    Lol so you dont think a GPU should work out of the box? I do like how you avoid arguments by making ridiculous claims so you can look like its beneath you. I assume when you drive your car you must have the diagnostic port hooked just staring at the screen?
     
    I posted a link to an article yes because it seemed relevant. I apologize oh GPU master for not being well versed on the inner workings of a GPU. Once again you are better than all of us.
     
    Next time I buy a GPU I'll ask the manufacturer which games I should avoid because their hardware cant handle it and which metrics they require me to monitor so that their engineering issue wont kill it.




    More straw men and handwaving. 
     
    If you want a toaster oven grade GPU, stick to the GTX 1660 series, they are great GPU's.
     
    ALL of the higher end GPU's cards going back over a decade are high strung and prone to failure, it is not exclusive to EVGA or Nvidia specifically.
    post edited by kevinc313 - 2021/07/27 06:53:15
    #19
    rjohnson11
    EVGA Forum Moderator
    • Total Posts : 85649
    • Reward points : 0
    • Joined: 2004/10/05 12:44:35
    • Location: Belgium
    • Status: offline
    • Ribbons : 75
    Re: New World GPU Failures - Possible Answer 2021/07/27 06:59:11 (permalink)
    The OP has removed the article so I am locking this thread

    AMD Ryzen 9 5950X,  Corsair Mp600 Pro M.2 2TB, 128GB DDR4  Crosshair VIII Hero, Asus RX 6900 XT Associate Code: H5U80QBH6BH0AXF

    #20
    Jump to:
  • Back to Mobile