feniks
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Hey guys! TL;DR Recently noticed that under intensive graphical load (especially under DX12 with SSAA settings) running into random video crashes or complete system freeze and reboot without BSOD or minidump It's been ages since I was posting anything around here, but mostly for the fact that I had no issues and enjoyed life  Need some help with troubleshooting, more details below, appreciate it if you are reading this! So a few months ago I upgraded my rig to 1080 Ti FTW3 in SLI (one card is FTW3 Hydrocopper, the other is a FTW3 convert with a Hydrocopper kit) and all was great. Fast Forward a few months, hit snags with nvidia drivers 398.36, so reverted back to 398.11 but issues still happen, even tried the earlier 397 drivers, still same problem. System specs: i7-4790K (currently stock clocks) on Gigabyte Z97X-UD5H board Trident X 32Gb ram @ 2400MHz XMP speed EVGA 1080 Ti FTW3 + Hydrocopper kit EVGA 1080 Ti Hydrocopper Seasonic Platinum 1000W PSU 1 HDD, 5 SSD drives 4K LG LCD 27'' gaming resolution 3840x2160 @ 60Hz Windows 10 x64 Pro 1803 with latest updates What issues? Well, a set of tricky ones as they are not same every time. Mostly the complete system freeze and reboot without BSOD or minidump. Happens mostly in Rise of Tomb Raider that I try playing again now - at some point in game that occurs. It could be minutes into game under DX12 with SSAA 2x/4x or hours under DX11 and SMAA. I initially thought it was the ROTTR game only as I haven't sen those issues under XCOM2 which I've been playing past few weeks intensely. Also, I remember playing ROTTR in DX12 mode with SSAA 4x for hours throughout months before not so long ago ... what has changed? Sometimes once the problem starts in Windows then another problem may occur at bootup (a freeze with thin blue line at top of screen) on OS/UEFI loading screen as well! and that means it could be hardware related. it's just weird. Steps taken so far: 1) re-installed nvidia drivers multiple times, now on 398.11 without Geforce Experience (I never use it) 2) checked event logs and found some event pertaining to BSOD 133 that I've never seen, nvklmm error 13 or 14 (no description), when DX12 was used with high AA settings sometimes I see resouirce exhaustion error (but that's different) 3) reverted GPU OC to stock clocks, tried underclocking, still happens 4) reverted CPU OC to stock clocks, problem still happens 5) tested memory with Memtest no problems in 1 pass 6) tested the PSU and cable extensions voltage-wise with PSU tester, no problem, everything right where it should be down to decimals I am trying to replicate the problem using some intensive GPU tester but am having issues finding one that supports 4K resolution and is intensive enough to show it? As far as I know the EVGA OC Scanner doesn't support 4K? I cannot see the problem happening in any benchmarks like Valley, Heaven 4.0 or even Firestrike Ultra 4K I might try a different PSU, but have only a 550W spare so it is a problem, because I would need to break the water loop and remove 1 card from system. I am thinking when it comes to hardware it could be either of the trio - graphics card(s) or PSU amps/watts not up to snuff under load or a dying system board? Sort of still hoping it a software issue caused by something in Windows ... What do you guys think I should do next? Try clean Windows 10? I have some more games, but not sure if they are graphically as intensive as ROTTR with maxed out settings at 4K...
post edited by feniks - 2018/07/21 11:57:30
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SimplyDimi
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Re: Need help with troubleshooting, probably hardware issue
2018/07/21 12:03:03
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Have u tried testing each card on its own? I would start there. Sounds like one might be failing and I’m pretty sure I’ve seen the identical issue in another thread. Also had a identical issue on my sc2 which I returned and now waiting on a ftw3
Have tried other cards in my system and it works perfectly fine.
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Cool GTX
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Re: Need help with troubleshooting, probably hardware issue
2018/07/21 12:21:32
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feniks
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Re: Need help with troubleshooting, probably hardware issue
2018/07/21 12:35:05
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SimpliDimi, yeah I was afraid it may go down that road. Not there yet, but thinking about. It's a PITA for me, because I would need to drain water from the loop and physically remove one card from system. My board doesn't have PCIe slot toggle switches. Unless I could just unplug power cables from one card (not sure if PC even boots that way LOL) or break SLI and run all tests on primary card only. Does the primary GPU always sit in top slot or it is dictated by placement of monitor cable connecting to it if there is 2 cards ... not sure, trying to figure out if I can test each card separately without physically removing them (water loop). The irony is that I already had to replace my initial FTW3 once because of issues... wth EVGA? Wish I had some other pair of 1080 Ti cards so I could test my system with different SLI, it's so annoying ... SimplyDimi
Have u tried testing each card on its own? I would start there. Sounds like one might be failing and I’m pretty sure I’ve seen the identical issue in another thread. Also had a identical issue on my sc2 which I returned and now waiting on a ftw3
Have tried other cards in my system and it works perfectly fine.
Cool GTX, may try the DDU Safe Boot mode thing, I checked everything else in OS and all checks out, sfc, dism, updates, default nv control panel settings, etc. Cool GTX
DDU your drivers in Safe mod with reboot
Nvidia control panel setting that you have changed ?
Make sure ALL background software is Off when installing drivers, including security software - (Go Off line first)
Check the game boards for known issues
Basic troubleshooting steps. Windows clean boot, clean driver install, debug mode, etc
http://www.resplendence.com/whocrashed
Use the System File Checker tool to repair missing or corrupted system files Using Event Viewer to Troubleshoot Problems
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AHowes
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Re: Need help with troubleshooting, probably hardware issue
2018/07/21 13:00:18
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That rise of the tomb raider game is one buggy game! I've had lock up problems that could happen at any time.. 10 mins or 2 hours later. You can read about them online and potential fixes but nothing fixed it for me. Just delt with it and saved the game often. Finished it though heh
I feel your pain on the testing with the water loop.. yes good suggestion on using safe mode to run ddu. Must do that evertime.
Yes you can disable sli to test the top card. No idea on how to test just the 2nd card.. if theres a way to disable the first card and hook the monitor up to the bottom card. ?? Have never tried thst.. been lucky that on some boards I can turn on and off the PCI slots.. happy mine has that feature now but not runing sli atm.
Suggestions..
Worse gets worse you can test another psu outside the case most likely.. just do a temp setup with it outside the case and wire it up. :) that would save you from pulling the loop just to swap the psu to test.
Grab a spare or cheap new ssd and disconnect your current hdd. Install a fresh copy of windows 10 on it. And test! If the problem ends up still being there just remove and hook the other hdd back in.
Though going threw the hassle of downloading all new drivers and crap, if it's been over a year since a fresh install might as well just back some stuff up and install it on the main hdd.
If it ends up being a mb issue.. sweet. Cause for full upgrade, faster cpu/ram! Hehe. Prob see a 20fps jump alone going from that to the 8700k.
Intel i9 9900K @ 5.2Ghz Single HUGE Custom Water Loop. Asus Z390 ROG Extreme XI MB G.Skill Trident Z 32GB (4x8GB) 4266MHz DDR4 EVGA 2080ti K|NGP|N w/ Hydro Copper block. 34" Dell Alienware AW3418DW 1440 Ultra Wide GSync Monitor Thermaltake Core P7 Modded w/ 2x EK Dual D5 pump top,2 x EK XE 480 2X 360 rads.1 Corsair 520 Rad.
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Sajin
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Re: Need help with troubleshooting, probably hardware issue
2018/07/21 14:08:33
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I agree with SimplyDimi. You need to test both cards individually. To test each one of them at a time without removing them from the system simply disable sli then disable one of them through the device manager.
I would also suggest retesting your ram as a single pass isn't enough. You also need to test each stick of ram individually instead of testing them all at once.
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feniks
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Re: Need help with troubleshooting, probably hardware issue
2018/07/21 14:22:39
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Haha, all good points AHowes Trust me, I googled issues with ROTTR and saw those posts from some people, but I simply myself haven't seen any ever until recently LOL, was I just lucky? And the way those issues caused by this game (or a combo with buggy drivers) manifest themselves like they were hardware based, must be insane! :) Hey, for now I think I am good, and I haven't done really anything (not even DDU), I just disconnected and reconnected all power cables while fooling around with PSU tester ... oh, and I re-enabled Intel VGA in BIOS as I kept it disabled for some time, nothing else was changed ... it's just baffling, like a freaking poltergeist living in my PC LOL! I have just completed running a battery of benchmarks on CPU & cards in SLI at stock clocks then again on overclocked everything (CPU+GPUs) and zero problems ... it even survived 15 minutes of Furmark at 4K with 8x MSAA and video cards never even exceeded 48C while overclocked to highest stable pair of clocks... ... Am I being played by the evil ROTTR here? LMAO, that would be so funny Oh, and I am thinking about upgrading anyways soon, maybe months away, just trying to decide when I should do that. Was not realizing that I might be seeing such a big improvements in FPS if I decide to do that. Sounds tempting ... Now let me fire up that ROTTR again and keep ignoring crashes if any ... what a week it was ... AHowes
That rise of the tomb raider game is one buggy game! I've had lock up problems that could happen at any time.. 10 mins or 2 hours later. You can read about them online and potential fixes but nothing fixed it for me. Just delt with it and saved the game often. Finished it though heh
I feel your pain on the testing with the water loop.. yes good suggestion on using safe mode to run ddu. Must do that evertime.
Yes you can disable sli to test the top card. No idea on how to test just the 2nd card.. if theres a way to disable the first card and hook the monitor up to the bottom card. ?? Have never tried thst.. been lucky that on some boards I can turn on and off the PCI slots.. happy mine has that feature now but not runing sli atm.
Suggestions..
Worse gets worse you can test another psu outside the case most likely.. just do a temp setup with it outside the case and wire it up. :) that would save you from pulling the loop just to swap the psu to test.
Grab a spare or cheap new ssd and disconnect your current hdd. Install a fresh copy of windows 10 on it. And test! If the problem ends up still being there just remove and hook the other hdd back in.
Though going threw the hassle of downloading all new drivers and crap, if it's been over a year since a fresh install might as well just back some stuff up and install it on the main hdd.
If it ends up being a mb issue.. sweet. Cause for full upgrade, faster cpu/ram! Hehe. Prob see a 20fps jump alone going from that to the 8700k.
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feniks
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Re: Need help with troubleshooting, probably hardware issue
2018/07/21 14:32:28
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I hear you buddy, but for now it looks like I all is great again, probably only except from ROTTR. I do not understand how a video crash caused by game was able to make it look like hardware issues ... during UEFI boot? It doesn't even makes sense to me LOL Just ran those benchmarks without issues with CPU @ 4.7GHz and 1080Ti FTW3 SLI running +72/+720 clocks: Superposition 4K Optimized DXTime Spy 1080p DX12Firestrike Ultra 4KFurmark 4K 8x MSAA stress test 15 minutes zero issues with anything ... At this point I can't even prove there was anything wrong with it at all .. crazy ... Sajin
I agree with SimplyDimi. You need to test both cards individually. To test each one of them at a time without removing them from the system simply disable sli then disable one of them through the device manager.
I would also suggest retesting your ram as a single pass isn't enough. You also need to test each stick of ram individually instead of testing them all at once.
post edited by feniks - 2018/07/21 14:39:28
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Sajin
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Re: Need help with troubleshooting, probably hardware issue
2018/07/21 14:57:29
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I've never had a game cause my entire system to freeze/reboot itself unless it was a hardware issue. I've also played ROTTR, never had a problem with it.
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AHowes
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Re: Need help with troubleshooting, probably hardware issue
2018/07/21 15:02:41
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Yeah some crazy stuff can give you nightmares.. even just stupid other software running in the background.. best to close off everything in the taskbar when issues arise that dont make sense.
For weeks I was tortured with my video/picture editing software not being able to open at sll.. here come find out msi afterburner was the cause! Close thet and bam! There she opens. Nuts.
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AHowes
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Re: Need help with troubleshooting, probably hardware issue
2018/07/21 15:07:48
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Sajin
I've never had a game cause my entire system to freeze/reboot itself unless it was a hardware issue. I've also played ROTTR, never had a problem with it.
That's shocking! I mean were both using nvidia drivers. Those lock ups never resulted in the pc rebooting.. just game lock up where I had to co trol/alt/delete or would just close and I'd be on the desktop. Didnt start happening till prob half way threw the game. Go away for a while and come back.. like it all depends on the level/map. First game inaugural very long time I've experianced issues.. could play witcher 3 without issue.. call of duty/battlefield. Just that damn game.
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SimplyDimi
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Re: Need help with troubleshooting, probably hardware issue
2018/07/21 15:53:57
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You could be me, my 4th evga card is coming Tuesday, I’m 3/3 on evga faulty cards out of the box this generation. Not a single card from evga was able to run a benchmark for 20 minutes (default clocks) without lockup/displaycrash/bsod. 1x 1080, 2x 1080ti sc2 and the one coming Tuesday is a 1080ti ftw3 (fingers crossed there’s no issues with it) And yes I’ve tried same cards from other companies in the system, they work perfectly fine. I might look elsewhere for my 1180/2080 needs, evga seems to be heading down a slippery slope Quite sad, used to think so highly of EVGA. It’s at the point where all they have is decent customer service but that also seems to be taking a hit as well I haven’t had a stress free gaming experience since my 980ti, this generation was a horrible experience with EVGA and quite frankly it’s left a bad taste in my mouth Not trying to be super negative or anything, just a stressful experience. Waiting on card after card after card missing out on playing certain games. 1-2 weeks per card to arrive/exchange only to have an issue once again.
post edited by SimplyDimi - 2018/07/21 16:07:44
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feniks
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Re: Need help with troubleshooting, probably hardware issue
2018/07/21 16:16:29
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well, fingers crossed, Just spent this all time playing ROTTR at 4K in DX12 and SSAA 4x no problems, turned it off and switched to DX11, no problems still. I think it's good, but ultimately what it was I cannot tell.
One of 2 things I think or both, something loose around power cables from PSU or extensions as I was re-connecting them this morning or the fact that I re-enabled Intel VGA in BIOS lol, not sure or maybe it was spots on the sun or maybe Earth's geo-magnetic field distortion or the ozone hole hahaha, who tf knows ...
BTW, the evga OC Scanner is garbage, new Furmark is much better
And yeah, software like MSI Afterburner or Evga Precision is better used to set clocks and closed, otherwise even more crashes and weird issues with applications and games or benchmarks LOL
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SimplyDimi
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Re: Need help with troubleshooting, probably hardware issue
2018/07/21 16:25:01
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feniks
well, fingers crossed, Just spent this all time playing ROTTR at 4K in DX12 and SSAA 4x no problems, turned it off and switched to DX11, no problems still. I think it's good, but ultimately what it was I cannot tell.
One of 2 things I think or both, something loose around power cables from PSU or extensions as I was re-connecting them this morning or the fact that I re-enabled Intel VGA in BIOS lol, not sure or maybe it was spots on the sun or maybe Earth's geo-magnetic field distortion or the ozone hole hahaha, who tf knows ...
BTW, the evga OC Scanner is garbage, new Furmark is much better
And yeah, software like MSI Afterburner or Evga Precision is better used to set clocks and closed, otherwise even more crashes and weird issues with applications and games or benchmarks LOL
I’ve seen people say they fixed issues like this but it usually comes back. Unless you truly had a loose cable and or software issue then yes it might be fixed. Personally, I can’t live with games crashing especially since I’m into competitive games. Even a game crashing once a day can be annoying for me (unless it’s a driver/game issue that is known) assuming you have an up to date bios, clean install of Windows 10, all drivers up to date. No game should be crashing period. I would still take Sajin’s advice if I were you to fully test or find the issue. Hopefully it’s fixed though and you don’t have to. Either way you have warranties on the cards, so if one ends up being the culprit you’ll still be able to game while you RMA
post edited by SimplyDimi - 2018/07/21 16:29:01
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squall-leonhart
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Re: Need help with troubleshooting, probably hardware issue
2018/07/21 19:24:14
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dump files require a pagefile on the boot drive.
lack of them otherwise means power dropped.
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feniks
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Re: Need help with troubleshooting, probably hardware issue
2018/07/21 19:37:36
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I wish it was that simple  I do have a huge pagefile on the boot drive, and yet the full dump is not happening and so the mini dump does not get saved. Probably a Windows reset could help, but don't have time yet to test it out. Power is definitely not getting dropped on input to PSU, because it comes from 1200VA battery backup. squall-leonhart
dump files require a pagefile on the boot drive.
lack of them otherwise means power dropped.
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squall-leonhart
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Re: Need help with troubleshooting, probably hardware issue
2018/07/21 20:02:26
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having a battery backup doesn't remove the possibility of a fault in power supply or other areas.
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AHowes
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Re: Need help with troubleshooting, probably hardware issue
2018/07/21 20:18:06
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Yeah you need to shove a volt meter on the 12 volt line durring a massive load. Like a 3d benchmark.
Intel i9 9900K @ 5.2Ghz Single HUGE Custom Water Loop. Asus Z390 ROG Extreme XI MB G.Skill Trident Z 32GB (4x8GB) 4266MHz DDR4 EVGA 2080ti K|NGP|N w/ Hydro Copper block. 34" Dell Alienware AW3418DW 1440 Ultra Wide GSync Monitor Thermaltake Core P7 Modded w/ 2x EK Dual D5 pump top,2 x EK XE 480 2X 360 rads.1 Corsair 520 Rad.
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feniks
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Re: Need help with troubleshooting, probably hardware issue
2018/07/21 20:32:42
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Thing is that now I cannot replicate it at all, it's gone. I threw everything I had at it and nothing, meaning it's good = no problem lol
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notfordman
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Re: Need help with troubleshooting, probably hardware issue
2018/07/21 21:22:21
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Well glad it's solved for now. Don't you hate not knowing what the problem was?? Cars are the same way at times.  @ SimplyDimi, hope the new card is good for you.
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HeavyHemi
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Re: Need help with troubleshooting, probably hardware issue
2018/07/21 22:45:48
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1200va on SLI 1080 Ti thats... what...about 720 watts output for the UPS...seems a bit anemic.
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feniks
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Re: Need help with troubleshooting, probably hardware issue
2018/07/21 22:57:16
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nah, that 1200va goes up to around 900W according to display and specs, besides my old PSU is 1KW, so it's OK for me. When problems were happening they happened around 400-600W a few times with lowered AA settings. HeavyHemi
1200va on SLI 1080 Ti thats... what...about 720 watts output for the UPS...seems a bit anemic.
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Berfs1
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Re: Need help with troubleshooting, probably hardware issue
2018/07/22 05:01:14
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1000W might not be enough for your system, or maybe your PSU is encountering failure when under a specific amount of load. Have you checked with another power supply?
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HeavyHemi
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Re: Need help with troubleshooting, probably hardware issue
2018/07/22 08:59:30
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feniks
nah, that 1200va goes up to around 900W according to display and specs, besides my old PSU is 1KW, so it's OK for me.
When problems were happening they happened around 400-600W a few times with lowered AA settings.
HeavyHemi
1200va on SLI 1080 Ti thats... what...about 720 watts output for the UPS...seems a bit anemic.
Ah no...it's undersized. There is no way 1200VA magically turns into anything near 900 watts. If your UPS display is showing that power draw, you are overloading it. The BEST UPS are rated for ~780 watts max. Average UPS are around ~720 max. You have to consider the power correction factor of your PSU. If it is several years old the capacity of the UPS is reduced even more. Also, make sure you're not overloading the circuit you have your system on. Most households are rated for 15 amps total for all outlets on a circuit. You can eliminate that as an issue by running straight from the outlet under conditions that usually cause a crash.
post edited by HeavyHemi - 2018/07/22 09:08:00
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AHowes
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Re: Need help with troubleshooting, probably hardware issue
2018/07/22 09:39:19
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Yeah simple test is just plug the pc straight into the wall outlet or other surge protector.
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HeavyHemi
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Re: Need help with troubleshooting, probably hardware issue
2018/07/22 10:51:50
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AHowes
Yeah simple test is just plug the pc straight into the wall outlet or other surge protector.
I'm not saying that's his issue but weird power spikes/draws can do strange things and cause strange glitches. I've always thought that a larger fudge factor reduces the pucker factor.
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AHowes
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Re: Need help with troubleshooting, probably hardware issue
2018/07/22 12:48:08
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My pc runs off it's own 20amp circuit.
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HeavyHemi
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Re: Need help with troubleshooting, probably hardware issue
2018/07/22 13:33:12
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AHowes
My pc runs off it's own 20amp circuit.
30 here. But it is surprising how much stuff some folks run off of one circuit breaker.
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AHowes
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Re: Need help with troubleshooting, probably hardware issue
2018/07/22 14:08:38
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My theater area upstairs I routed 3 30 amp circuits hehe. Was a job an overkill but I like overkill.
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feniks
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Re: Need help with troubleshooting, probably hardware issue
2018/07/22 16:08:51
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I totally agree with that, especially that my 1KW PSU is a few years old and I am sure they loose some capacity each year, so it might be more like 900W nowadays. For that reason whenever maxing out eye candy at 4K I usually don't max out Anti-Aliasing, so the GPUs don't try taking too much from PSU. For how many years typically a PSU can be used within its original specs, 5 years? I might be closing on that number ... Judging by watts pulled by my PC as read on APC battery display, I am OK with current wattage PSU probbaly as typical under load usage never exceeds 600W, except maxed out ROTTR that can pull up to 850W (4K res, all maxed out with SSAA 4x and Double Buffering vsync). Berfs1
1000W might not be enough for your system, or maybe your PSU is encountering failure when under a specific amount of load. Have you checked with another power supply?
Actually, it depends on battery model, there is like 3 kinds of internals and calculations differ between W and VA (e.g. home gear grade vs entry level enterprise vs full blown enterprise grade). Anyways, mine actually is rated at 865W or 1500VA (was wrong about 1200VA, sorry m,y bad), APC Back-UPS Pro BR1500G... It's barely enough for my PSU at current needs, but I keep it as the next capacity is a huge price jump (from $160 to like $900) as it is already an enterprise grade of stuff. HeavyHemi
feniks
nah, that 1200va goes up to around 900W according to display and specs, besides my old PSU is 1KW, so it's OK for me.
When problems were happening they happened around 400-600W a few times with lowered AA settings.
HeavyHemi
1200va on SLI 1080 Ti thats... what...about 720 watts output for the UPS...seems a bit anemic.
Ah no...it's undersized. There is no way 1200VA magically turns into anything near 900 watts. If your UPS display is showing that power draw, you are overloading it.
The BEST UPS are rated for ~780 watts max. Average UPS are around ~720 max. You have to consider the power correction factor of your PSU. If it is several years old the capacity of the UPS is reduced even more. Also, make sure you're not overloading the circuit you have your system on. Most households are rated for 15 amps total for all outlets on a circuit. You can eliminate that as an issue by running straight from the outlet under conditions that usually cause a crash.
I was thinking about that, but then everything started working fine with power drawn from battery as is, so I never did that test. I don't think it's the battery problem. It was definitely something on the edge of software and firmware, probably my system board or PSU. AHowes
Yeah simple test is just plug the pc straight into the wall outlet or other surge protector.
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