telehog
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Re: NVIDIA Allegedly Moving Ampere to 7nm TSMC in 2021
2020/10/14 14:12:33
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Sajin
Lol. New architecture in first half of 2021? Why even buy now with the shortages and all? So ampere is looking to be a 6 month cash grab?
Looking like it mite be good not to have RTX3090 and just sit and watch all this play out.
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ngaugler
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Re: NVIDIA Allegedly Moving Ampere to 7nm TSMC in 2021
2020/10/14 14:27:42
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BTomov
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Re: NVIDIA Allegedly Moving Ampere to 7nm TSMC in 2021
2020/10/14 19:33:37
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ajreynol
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Re: NVIDIA Allegedly Moving Ampere to 7nm TSMC in 2021
2020/10/15 05:51:05
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This is all fascinating. I really didn't think TSMC had the room in their order line to make space for Nvidia so soon. This is NOT a small deal, and those who can wait until this time next year will end up with a better product overall. NexusPhase
If they do I would hope EVGA honors some kinda special step-up
They won't. These variants won't perform better than the current version the cards; they will just be cooler and quieter on a lower power draw. I don't see any reason why they would do a step up just for a process change nor should they feel any pressure to.
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kevinc313
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Re: NVIDIA Allegedly Moving Ampere to 7nm TSMC in 2021
2020/10/15 13:34:23
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Airikay
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Re: NVIDIA Allegedly Moving Ampere to 7nm TSMC in 2021
2020/10/15 18:37:44
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https://twitter.com/kopite7kimi/status/1316909907493462016
Kopite is one of the credible leakers. Everything since the super has been pretty spot on.
As a note, don't forget Digitimes was reporting Zen 3 was 5nm earlier this year too.
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riku98523
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Re: NVIDIA Allegedly Moving Ampere to 7nm TSMC in 2021
2020/10/15 18:53:05
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I really don't think this is happening lol.
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emmett
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Re: NVIDIA Allegedly Moving Ampere to 7nm TSMC in 2021
2020/10/15 18:58:14
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Cooler and quieter with less power draw? sign me up!
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GTXJackBauer
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Re: NVIDIA Allegedly Moving Ampere to 7nm TSMC in 2021
2020/10/15 19:36:29
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Nvidia won't throw everyone under the bus like that for one and IF these rumors are true (quite possibly) and TSMC takes over for the next batch of silicons (Is this the reason we aren't seeing that many GPUs?), I only see additional SKUs added to the lineup like a 'Ti' and or 'Super'.
The 3090s won't be challenged, especially at that price point and EVGA wouldn't have created a Kingpin on that platform as well as other AIB equivalent.
The end, enjoy life!
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ty_ger07
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Re: NVIDIA Allegedly Moving Ampere to 7nm TSMC in 2021
2020/10/15 20:11:52
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ajreynol
These variants won't perform better than the current version the cards; they will just be cooler and quieter on a lower power draw.
Oh, so they will perform better in almost every way?
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vegajf51
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Re: NVIDIA Allegedly Moving Ampere to 7nm TSMC in 2021
2020/10/15 20:20:28
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ty_ger07
ajreynol
These variants won't perform better than the current version the cards; they will just be cooler and quieter on a lower power draw.
Oh, so they will perform better in almost every way?
lol....ya basically. They would also clock higher, again this is all hypotheticals that most likely won't happen.
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Urieldagda
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Re: NVIDIA Allegedly Moving Ampere to 7nm TSMC in 2021
2020/10/16 06:00:51
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This is ridiculous, unless nvidia somehow has a whole other team and a boatload of cash they want to burn. Going from Samsung 8nm to TSMC 7nm would require a complete redesign of the die. They can't just shrink it like they could a common node from the same manufacturer. If they were going to do this then it would have to already had to have been in process in parallel with what we have now, and just now being taped out.
Everybody in the industry would have known about it a year out.
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riku98523
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Re: NVIDIA Allegedly Moving Ampere to 7nm TSMC in 2021
2020/10/16 07:32:17
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This honestly wouldn't even make sense. So Nvidia burned tons of funds to make the same GPUs twice? Look at the demand on the 30 series already. Switching wouldn't even make business sense.
post edited by the_Scarlet_one - 2020/10/16 09:56:24
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mchang1984
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Re: NVIDIA Allegedly Moving Ampere to 7nm TSMC in 2021
2020/10/16 07:46:01
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As long as they have the Fab at TSMC that can handle at least 10 times the production of what we currently have, I'm fine with it. 8 Nm to 7 Nm, you might as well call the 7 Nm the 3080 / 3090 Super.
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dragomirc
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Re: NVIDIA Allegedly Moving Ampere to 7nm TSMC in 2021
2020/10/23 16:31:01
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Any updates on this?
If true makes sense why nvidia is holding production.
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atfrico
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Re: NVIDIA Allegedly Moving Ampere to 7nm TSMC in 2021
2020/10/23 16:40:30
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By the time Nvidia gets the 7mm refresh ampere, AMD will release the 5mm gpus😹😹🤣🤣 🤔 indeed😸😹🤣🤣.
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justin_43
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Re: NVIDIA Allegedly Moving Ampere to 7nm TSMC in 2021
2020/10/23 16:54:15
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dragomirc
Any updates on this?
If true makes sense why nvidia is holding production.
It actually wouldn't make sense to hold for Nvidia. They would want to push out as much as they can now. Make as many sales as possible now. Then they can resell new 7nm cards to all the hardcore enthusiasts who would sell 8nm Samsung cards to buy the new ones and also have new marketing points to sell to new customers. This whole launch sucks in every way. Even if you are "lucky" enough to buy now, you might get screwed over really soon. These 8nm cards are power hogs and yields are super low. No doubt Nvidia wants to move to TSMC. They wanted to from the beginning but fab space was the problem (thanks Apple and AMD). New cards on 7nm will perform better, be less power hungry, have more headroom, and be more available (TSMC is no stranger to pumping out huge amounts of chips, while Samsung is a relative newcomer to GPU fabbing). Nvidia made a REALLY bad decision to go with Samsung but they had no choice. If they have the choice to redesign and refresh with TSMC they will do it, and soon. Jensun doesn't care that you already bought a card, he is happy to sell you another
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dragomirc
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Re: NVIDIA Allegedly Moving Ampere to 7nm TSMC in 2021
2020/10/23 17:54:31
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I red somewhere that Samsung 8nm is based on their 10nm process. And is essentially Samsung 10nm++. While TSMC 7nm is a generational leap. So that 1nm makes a huge difference. Why would nvidia want to sell cards with outdated Samsung 10nm++ process node? Much better option is cut that production (which is in fact real) and go back on knees to TSMC. Let me quote one guy on other forum "3000 series are good cards but damn this launch is a complete and utter disaster. First they lied about the performance, they then paper launched the cards, the cards become sold out and turn into gold dust thanks to scalpers and just overall low inventory, then we had the POSCAP fiasco for third party cards, drivers to fix crashing and limit boost clocks had to be released, AIB's begin to scalp their own cards in order to rip off their own customers (nvidia should of cut ties with them instantly!), Nvidia gives up and changes release of 3070 Nvidia gives up again and cuts sales of all cards and only sells through best buy!! Nvidia gives up again and is now looking to move fab to a different company and node! Did I miss anything?"
post edited by dragomirc - 2020/10/23 17:59:11
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vegajf51
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Re: NVIDIA Allegedly Moving Ampere to 7nm TSMC in 2021
2020/10/23 17:59:59
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dragomirc
I red somewhere that Samsung 8nm is based on their 10nm process. And is essentially Samsung 10nm++.
If Samsung were Intel then yes basically. Samsung and Global Foundries like to call their + nodes something else. Like Zen+ was on Global Foundries 12nm but was really just 14nm +
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dragomirc
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Re: NVIDIA Allegedly Moving Ampere to 7nm TSMC in 2021
2020/10/23 18:17:40
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Justin_43 and vegajf51,
Thank you for additional and quite interesting information.
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justin_43
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Re: NVIDIA Allegedly Moving Ampere to 7nm TSMC in 2021
2020/10/23 19:03:51
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vegajf51
dragomirc
I red somewhere that Samsung 8nm is based on their 10nm process. And is essentially Samsung 10nm++.
If Samsung were Intel then yes basically. Samsung and Global Foundries like to call their + nodes something else. Like Zen+ was on Global Foundries 12nm but was really just 14nm +
You really cannot compare numbers between fabs. 1nm between TSMC and Samsung is a HUGE difference. Yes Samsung 8nm is closer to a 10nm older process and is essentially an 10nm (relative) refresh. TSMC 7nm is a generation past that and is already old, they are already moving to a 7nm+ refresh and then soon 5nm. Glo Flo is trash and shouldn't even be in the conversation. AMD spun them off and has moved away from using them and now use TSMC fpr both CPU and GPU (and that is a major reason Nvidia got pushed out of TSMC for now, because they have no space for them due to not only AMD Ryzen + Navi, but also Apple's in house SoCs. Apple is now their biggest customer!). Soon TSMC will have the extra capacity available for Nvidia again (like old times!) and of course they will go back to TSMC to make Ampere chips. I just wonder if they will move GA102 production to TSMC 7nm and screw over early adopters over or not. If they do we will all regret the purchases we make now, but we will never know until it happens. Your 8nm Samsung RTX 3090 will not perform as well as one from TSMC and it will draw much more power and of course be clockspeed limited. Probably Nvidia will charge less for the refresh making your 3090 worth a lot less. Believe me I am in the same situation. I haven't bought a 3090 yet only because I haven't been allowed to by the queue system and even knowing a refresh will probably come soon I still won't be able to hold back when I get the email. I have no card now and it is what it is. I want to get back to gaming. I just feel like we will be screwed in the end because of Nvidia's bad decision to go with Samsung in the first place. It's kinda like the original Fermi (GTX 480) chips that were hot and power hungry that refreshed very soon after (GTX 580) and cost less. It's just now on a bigger scale because of the price. Back then Top end GPUs were about $500 instead of $1800. Bottom line is Nvidia is greedy and doesn't care if YOU spent money old tech. They will refresh as soon as necessary.
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R3L3NTL3SS
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Re: NVIDIA Allegedly Moving Ampere to 7nm TSMC in 2021
2020/10/23 19:13:39
(permalink)
justin_43
vegajf51
dragomirc
I red somewhere that Samsung 8nm is based on their 10nm process. And is essentially Samsung 10nm++.
If Samsung were Intel then yes basically. Samsung and Global Foundries like to call their + nodes something else. Like Zen+ was on Global Foundries 12nm but was really just 14nm +
You really cannot compare numbers between fabs. 1nm between TSMC and Samsung is a HUGE difference. Yes Samsung 8nm is closer to a 10nm older process and is essentially an 10nm (relative) refresh. TSMC 7nm is a generation past that and is already old, they are already moving to a 7nm+ refresh and then soon 5nm. Glo Flo is trash and shouldn't even be in the conversation. AMD spun them off and has moved away from using them and now use TSMC fpr both CPU and GPU (and that is a major reason Nvidia got pushed out of TSMC for now, because they have no space for them due to not only AMD Ryzen + Navi, but also Apple's in house SoCs. Apple is now their biggest customer!). Soon TSMC will have the extra capacity available for Nvidia again (like old times!) and of course they will go back to TSMC to make Ampere chips. I just wonder if they will move GA102 production to TSMC 7nm and screw over early adopters over or not. If they do we will all regret the purchases we make now, but we will never know until it happens. Your 8nm Samsung RTX 3090 will not perform as well as one from TSMC and it will draw much more power and of course be clockspeed limited. Probably Nvidia will charge less for the refresh making your 3090 worth a lot less. Believe me I am in the same situation. I haven't bought a 3090 yet only because I haven't been allowed to by the queue system and even knowing a refresh will probably come soon I still won't be able to hold back when I get the email. I have no card now and it is what it is. I want to get back to gaming. I just feel like we will be screwed in the end because of Nvidia's bad decision to go with Samsung in the first place. It's kinda like the original Fermi (GTX 480) chips that were hot and power hungry that refreshed very soon after (GTX 580) and cost less. It's just now on a bigger scale because of the price. Back then Top end GPUs were about $500 instead of $1800. Bottom line is Nvidia is greedy and doesn't care if YOU spent money old tech. They will refresh as soon as necessary.
I heard the entire reason why Nvidia didn't use TSMC had nothing to do with TSMC not being able to provide chips - it was that Nvidia didn't want to pay their price. They decided to go with the cheaper Samsung chips and now everyone is "paying the price" for it. TSMC yields are amazing. Like 90%. Samsung is rumored to be 30-50%. TSMC yields are so damn good, its rumored that AMD literally has to purposely sabotage chips to actually have low end ones for lower end SKU's.
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justin_43
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Re: NVIDIA Allegedly Moving Ampere to 7nm TSMC in 2021
2020/10/23 19:23:13
(permalink)
R3L3NTL3SS
justin_43
vegajf51
dragomirc
I red somewhere that Samsung 8nm is based on their 10nm process. And is essentially Samsung 10nm++.
If Samsung were Intel then yes basically. Samsung and Global Foundries like to call their + nodes something else. Like Zen+ was on Global Foundries 12nm but was really just 14nm +
You really cannot compare numbers between fabs. 1nm between TSMC and Samsung is a HUGE difference. Yes Samsung 8nm is closer to a 10nm older process and is essentially an 10nm (relative) refresh. TSMC 7nm is a generation past that and is already old, they are already moving to a 7nm+ refresh and then soon 5nm. Glo Flo is trash and shouldn't even be in the conversation. AMD spun them off and has moved away from using them and now use TSMC fpr both CPU and GPU (and that is a major reason Nvidia got pushed out of TSMC for now, because they have no space for them due to not only AMD Ryzen + Navi, but also Apple's in house SoCs. Apple is now their biggest customer!). Soon TSMC will have the extra capacity available for Nvidia again (like old times!) and of course they will go back to TSMC to make Ampere chips. I just wonder if they will move GA102 production to TSMC 7nm and screw over early adopters over or not. If they do we will all regret the purchases we make now, but we will never know until it happens. Your 8nm Samsung RTX 3090 will not perform as well as one from TSMC and it will draw much more power and of course be clockspeed limited. Probably Nvidia will charge less for the refresh making your 3090 worth a lot less. Believe me I am in the same situation. I haven't bought a 3090 yet only because I haven't been allowed to by the queue system and even knowing a refresh will probably come soon I still won't be able to hold back when I get the email. I have no card now and it is what it is. I want to get back to gaming. I just feel like we will be screwed in the end because of Nvidia's bad decision to go with Samsung in the first place. It's kinda like the original Fermi (GTX 480) chips that were hot and power hungry that refreshed very soon after (GTX 580) and cost less. It's just now on a bigger scale because of the price. Back then Top end GPUs were about $500 instead of $1800. Bottom line is Nvidia is greedy and doesn't care if YOU spent money old tech. They will refresh as soon as necessary.
I heard the entire reason why Nvidia didn't use TSMC had nothing to do with TSMC not being able to provide chips - it was that Nvidia didn't want to pay their price. They decided to go with the cheaper Samsung chips and now everyone is "paying the price" for it.
TSMC yields are amazing. Like 90%. Samsung is rumored to be 30-50%.
TSMC yields are so damn good, its rumored that AMD literally has to purposely sabotage chips to actually have low end ones for lower end SKU's.
If that's the case and it was purely based on price than Nvidia is even scummier than I thought. I heard fab space was limited but if they actively chose to go with Samsung that's some real BS. The only "positive" from that revelation would be there might not be a refresh as soon as we might think. No reason to move to TSMC if you chose to go with Samung over the iin the first place. Not a "positive" for their chips of course, just a positive for us lowly customers who paid/will pay an arm and a leg for their 8nm chips.
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richardwu190
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Re: NVIDIA Allegedly Moving Ampere to 7nm TSMC in 2021
2020/10/23 21:11:46
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Is there anyone concerned about the resale value of the RTX 3080 cards? I just watched the latest video from Moore's Law is Dead and it is looking very likely that AMD's Big Navi (6800xt) is going to dominate 3080 in rasterization performance while achieving similar ray-tracing performance as 2080 Ti. Also Big Navi comes with more VRAM (16 GB) as well. I have a feeling Nvidia is getting surprised (and shocked) by these developments...
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Feklar
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Re: NVIDIA Allegedly Moving Ampere to 7nm TSMC in 2021
2020/10/23 21:27:54
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I'm more concerned about the resale value of the 2080ti. Talk about a less than worthwhile value. It's so low I'm keeping my 2080ti ftw3 Ultra as a spare card.
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HawkOculus
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Re: NVIDIA Allegedly Moving Ampere to 7nm TSMC in 2021
2020/10/23 21:33:00
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richardwu190
Is there anyone concerned about the resale value of the RTX 3080 cards? I just watched the latest video from Moore's Law is Dead and it is looking very likely that AMD's Big Navi (6800xt) is going to dominate 3080 in rasterization performance while achieving similar ray-tracing performance as 2080 Ti. Also Big Navi comes with more VRAM (16 GB) as well. I have a feeling Nvidia is getting surprised (and shocked) by these developments...
He is an AMD shill and I will believe it when I see it. For how many GPU generations have the AMD fanboys claimed that a sleeper hit would overtake the top Nvidia cards? A lot, and it never pans out. And even if the traditional performance is close, you can pretty much guarantee that the software side of things is going to be utter garbage. AMD can’t even get their basic video drivers to work well, let alone an answer to DLSS or RTX.
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eknight76
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Re: NVIDIA Allegedly Moving Ampere to 7nm TSMC in 2021
2020/10/23 21:46:03
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HawkOculus
richardwu190
Is there anyone concerned about the resale value of the RTX 3080 cards? I just watched the latest video from Moore's Law is Dead and it is looking very likely that AMD's Big Navi (6800xt) is going to dominate 3080 in rasterization performance while achieving similar ray-tracing performance as 2080 Ti. Also Big Navi comes with more VRAM (16 GB) as well. I have a feeling Nvidia is getting surprised (and shocked) by these developments...
He is an AMD shill and I will believe it when I see it. For how many GPU generations have the AMD fanboys claimed that a sleeper hit would overtake the top Nvidia cards? A lot, and it never pans out.
And even if the traditional performance is close, you can pretty much guarantee that the software side of things is going to be utter garbage. AMD can’t even get their basic video drivers to work well, let alone an answer to DLSS or RTX.
Radeon has been terrible for a long time but let's not count AMD out yet. They have done amazing things in cpu space and now they're turning their attention to gpus. While I would agree that Moores Law is Dead is very pro AMD, other outlets are also reporting eye popping synthetic scores that are better than the 3090. Drivers have also improved a lot for the 5000 cards and they're seeing higher frames because of it. IF it were my choice, I'd have a 3080 in my box right now, but seeing how that's seemingly impossible at the moment, why not at least see and hear what AMD has brought to the table?
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eknight76
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Re: NVIDIA Allegedly Moving Ampere to 7nm TSMC in 2021
2020/10/23 21:59:43
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justin_43
R3L3NTL3SS
justin_43
vegajf51
dragomirc
I red somewhere that Samsung 8nm is based on their 10nm process. And is essentially Samsung 10nm++.
If Samsung were Intel then yes basically. Samsung and Global Foundries like to call their + nodes something else. Like Zen+ was on Global Foundries 12nm but was really just 14nm +
You really cannot compare numbers between fabs. 1nm between TSMC and Samsung is a HUGE difference. Yes Samsung 8nm is closer to a 10nm older process and is essentially an 10nm (relative) refresh. TSMC 7nm is a generation past that and is already old, they are already moving to a 7nm+ refresh and then soon 5nm. Glo Flo is trash and shouldn't even be in the conversation. AMD spun them off and has moved away from using them and now use TSMC fpr both CPU and GPU (and that is a major reason Nvidia got pushed out of TSMC for now, because they have no space for them due to not only AMD Ryzen + Navi, but also Apple's in house SoCs. Apple is now their biggest customer!). Soon TSMC will have the extra capacity available for Nvidia again (like old times!) and of course they will go back to TSMC to make Ampere chips. I just wonder if they will move GA102 production to TSMC 7nm and screw over early adopters over or not. If they do we will all regret the purchases we make now, but we will never know until it happens. Your 8nm Samsung RTX 3090 will not perform as well as one from TSMC and it will draw much more power and of course be clockspeed limited. Probably Nvidia will charge less for the refresh making your 3090 worth a lot less. Believe me I am in the same situation. I haven't bought a 3090 yet only because I haven't been allowed to by the queue system and even knowing a refresh will probably come soon I still won't be able to hold back when I get the email. I have no card now and it is what it is. I want to get back to gaming. I just feel like we will be screwed in the end because of Nvidia's bad decision to go with Samsung in the first place. It's kinda like the original Fermi (GTX 480) chips that were hot and power hungry that refreshed very soon after (GTX 580) and cost less. It's just now on a bigger scale because of the price. Back then Top end GPUs were about $500 instead of $1800. Bottom line is Nvidia is greedy and doesn't care if YOU spent money old tech. They will refresh as soon as necessary.
I heard the entire reason why Nvidia didn't use TSMC had nothing to do with TSMC not being able to provide chips - it was that Nvidia didn't want to pay their price. They decided to go with the cheaper Samsung chips and now everyone is "paying the price" for it.
TSMC yields are amazing. Like 90%. Samsung is rumored to be 30-50%.
TSMC yields are so damn good, its rumored that AMD literally has to purposely sabotage chips to actually have low end ones for lower end SKU's.
If that's the case and it was purely based on price than Nvidia is even scummier than I thought. I heard fab space was limited but if they actively chose to go with Samsung that's some real BS. The only "positive" from that revelation would be there might not be a refresh as soon as we might think. No reason to move to TSMC if you chose to go with Samung over the iin the first place. Not a "positive" for their chips of course, just a positive for us lowly customers who paid/will pay an arm and a leg for their 8nm chips.
Yep. The rumor was essentially that Nvidia was trying to be clever and play Samsung and TSMC off of each other to get cheaper prices. Essentially, well if you're too expensive, we can always go to Samsung. TSMC promptly sold their excess 7 nm capacity, mostly to AMD, and left Nvidia in the cold. (Think zen 3, radeon 6000, xbox SOCs, PS5 SOCs, etc.) TSMC doesn't need Nvidia right now. They had no choice but to go to Samsung. That said, the latest rumor is that Apple is moving to 5 nm and that should open up a lot 7 nm capacity. A now humbled Nvidia is going back to TSMC with their tail between their legs. Grain of salt though, I'm not sure where these tech sites get their info.
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Frammish
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Re: NVIDIA Allegedly Moving Ampere to 7nm TSMC in 2021
2020/10/24 06:53:18
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The TSMC rumor makes sense, though. Nvidia likes to refresh a line about a year in with the Supers. That might be a fair leap this generation with not just increased performance, but better efficiency, cooler, lower power, and maybe fix the things Nvidia goobered on the current chips. It could be that it costs Nvidia a bit more with whatever prep is involved to start burning new chips, but it does look like Nvidia might have to just bite that bullet if they can’t get past all the current issues.
I hope the TSMC rumor is true and I hope AMD has a really good launch.
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