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Helpful ReplyHot!I’ve heard that EVGA cheaped out on parts…

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Mscott0566
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2021/08/02 20:14:40 (permalink)
Is it true that EVGA used cheaper parts to get the minimum requirements met for the 30 series cards? I still love EVGA but I seriously hope not…
post edited by Mscott0566 - 2021/08/02 20:47:24
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safan80
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Re: I’ve heard that EVGA cheaper out on parts… 2021/08/02 20:28:32 (permalink)
Where did you hear that? I suggest you check out igor's lab and read about the new world issue https://www.igorslab.de/e...-once-again-editorial/
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ty_ger07
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Re: I’ve heard that EVGA cheaper out on parts… 2021/08/02 20:43:13 (permalink)
safan80
Where did you hear that?


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atfrico
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Re: I’ve heard that EVGA cheaped out on parts… 2021/08/02 20:48:01 (permalink)
Mscott0566
Is it true that EVGA used cheaper parts to get the minimum requirements met for the 30 series cards? I still love EVGA but I seriously hope not…

You mean Nvidia right?

Those who abuse power, are nothing but scumbags! The challenge of power is how to use it and not abuse it. The abuse of power that seems to create the most unhappiness is when a person uses personal power to get ahead without regards to the welfare of others, people are obsessed with it. You can take a nice person and turn them into a slob, into an insane being, craving power, destroying anything that stands in their way.
 
 
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Hoggle
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Re: I’ve heard that EVGA cheaped out on parts… 2021/08/02 20:52:31 (permalink)
I don’t think so. The cards I have seen have been always good of course I wish I didn’t have the red lips on my 3080 FTW but I don’t mind it at all.

Use an Associates Code & SAVE 5% - 10% on your purchase. Just click on the associates banner to save, or enter the associates code at checkout on your next purchase. If you choose to use my code I want to personally say "Thank You" for using it. 
 
 
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safan80
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Re: I’ve heard that EVGA cheaper out on parts… 2021/08/02 20:52:39 (permalink)
ty_ger07
safan80
Where did you hear that?






That video is old news. I actually thought you might have been talking about this one
https://www.youtube.com/w...bCrNBpW-RQ&pp=sAQA
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KingEngineRevUp
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Re: I’ve heard that EVGA cheaper out on parts… 2021/08/02 21:00:17 (permalink)
ty_ger07
safan80
Where did you hear that?




Buildzoid is saying that for $810 the card should have components he would like. He's not saying it cheaped out on parts ... Cards are already over engineered and EVGA still added better components than your average reference design.

But again, what buildzoid looks for is not what others look for. The RGB light bar, the extra pwm case fan ports and aRGB header and the iCX sensors are various components that other cards do not have and is the reason the card was $810.

What if someone opened up an ASUS Strix and said "for $900 this card should come with sensors that monitor each memory component individually or allows the fans to act independently to cool certain components."

So what buildzoid is saying. EVGA cards for $810 don't come with components he would like. It doesn't mean it's "cheaped out" on parts

I mean watch his video, he still goes over the math with you and how many amps and loads certain components can take.

The problem? Buildzoid is smart, but his audience is not as smart as he is so they hear things differently.
post edited by KingEngineRevUp - 2021/08/02 21:03:10
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atfrico
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Re: I’ve heard that EVGA cheaper out on parts… 2021/08/02 21:03:26 (permalink)
KingEngineRevUp
ty_ger07
safan80
Where did you hear that?




Buildzoid is saying that for $810 the card should have components he would like. He's not saying it cheaped out on parts ... Cards are already over engineered and EVGA still added better components than your average reference design.

But again, what buildzoid looks for is not what others look for. The RGB light bar, the extra pwm case fan ports and aRGB header and the iCX sensors are various components that other cards do not have and is the reason the card was $810.

So what buildzoid is saying. EVGA cards for $810 don't come with components he would like. It doesn't mean it's "cheap."

I mean watch his video, he still goes over the math with you and how many amps and loads certain components can take.

The problem? Buildzoid is smart, but his audience is not as smart as he is so they hear things differently.

Is not the way the message is delivered, it is the way people comprehend and understand the message in their own way.

Those who abuse power, are nothing but scumbags! The challenge of power is how to use it and not abuse it. The abuse of power that seems to create the most unhappiness is when a person uses personal power to get ahead without regards to the welfare of others, people are obsessed with it. You can take a nice person and turn them into a slob, into an insane being, craving power, destroying anything that stands in their way.
 
 
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ty_ger07
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Re: I’ve heard that EVGA cheaper out on parts… 2021/08/02 21:07:36 (permalink)
KingEngineRevUp
ty_ger07
safan80
Where did you hear that?




Buildzoid is saying that for $810 the card should have components he would like. He's not saying it cheaped out on parts ... Cards are already over engineered and EVGA still added better components than your average reference design.

But again, what buildzoid looks for is not what others look for. The RGB light bar, the extra pwm case fan ports and aRGB header and the iCX sensors are various components that other cards do not have and is the reason the card was $810.

So what buildzoid is saying. EVGA cards for $810 don't come with components he would like. It doesn't mean it's "cheap."

I mean watch his video, he still goes over the math with you and how many amps and loads certain components can take.

The problem? Buildzoid is smart, but his audience is not as smart as he is so they hear things differently.

So, the analog voltage controller (on cards known to have issues with balancing power properly) wasn't a "cheap" choice?  Would the better, more expensive, digital controller not been "less cheap"?
If you watch the full video, you will see that what he said is that EVGA chose to upgrade basically nothing and instead only added more redundancy of the same cheap components instead of choosing to use better component options which some other brands did use instead.  Adding a bunch of the same cheap stuff doesn't add a lot to the price of a product.  Because you are able to buy in bulk, the more you implement, the price of each drops.  It is a cheap methodology.  It is by definition a "cheap" choice EVGA made; rather than using fewer better components, they chose to use a bunch of cheap components.  Better or worse in measurable ways and more expensive or cheaper in measurable ways; it can't be argued.
Is it a surprise that the black screen/100% fan/blown fuse issue is predominantly an EVGA issue and that EVGA even has a special program to replace 3090 cards which exhibited precursory problematic symptoms?  Is it a surprise that even cards which don't fail have been habitually reported to not perform well due to power balancing issues and inability to reach full rated power limits?  Could any of that be related to using the above mentioned cheap components?  I think yes.
post edited by ty_ger07 - 2021/08/02 21:15:19
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KingEngineRevUp
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Re: I’ve heard that EVGA cheaper out on parts… 2021/08/02 21:10:28 (permalink)
atfrico
KingEngineRevUp
ty_ger07
safan80
Where did you hear that?




Buildzoid is saying that for $810 the card should have components he would like. He's not saying it cheaped out on parts ... Cards are already over engineered and EVGA still added better components than your average reference design.

But again, what buildzoid looks for is not what others look for. The RGB light bar, the extra pwm case fan ports and aRGB header and the iCX sensors are various components that other cards do not have and is the reason the card was $810.

So what buildzoid is saying. EVGA cards for $810 don't come with components he would like. It doesn't mean it's "cheap."

I mean watch his video, he still goes over the math with you and how many amps and loads certain components can take.

The problem? Buildzoid is smart, but his audience is not as smart as he is so they hear things differently.

Is not the way the message is delivered, it is the way people comprehend and understand the message in their own way.


That's right.

To the person that is concerned with this post, at 26:50 minutes and seconds, buildzoid even says as a consumer these things won't affect you. Lol.
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ty_ger07
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Re: I’ve heard that EVGA cheaper out on parts… 2021/08/02 21:11:22 (permalink)
KingEngineRevUp
To the person that is concerned with this post, at 26:50 minutes and seconds, buildzoid even says as a consumer these things won't affect you. Lol.

He was proven wrong though, wasn't he?
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Mscott0566
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Re: I’ve heard that EVGA cheaped out on parts… 2021/08/02 21:11:33 (permalink)
I mean kinda..
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KingEngineRevUp
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Re: I’ve heard that EVGA cheaper out on parts… 2021/08/02 21:14:49 (permalink)
ty_ger07
KingEngineRevUp
ty_ger07
safan80
Where did you hear that?




Buildzoid is saying that for $810 the card should have components he would like. He's not saying it cheaped out on parts ... Cards are already over engineered and EVGA still added better components than your average reference design.

But again, what buildzoid looks for is not what others look for. The RGB light bar, the extra pwm case fan ports and aRGB header and the iCX sensors are various components that other cards do not have and is the reason the card was $810.

So what buildzoid is saying. EVGA cards for $810 don't come with components he would like. It doesn't mean it's "cheap."

I mean watch his video, he still goes over the math with you and how many amps and loads certain components can take.

The problem? Buildzoid is smart, but his audience is not as smart as he is so they hear things differently.

So, the analog voltage controller (on cards known to have issues with balancing power properly) wasn't a "cheap" choice?  Would the better, more expensive, digital controller not been "less cheap"?
What he said is that EVGA chose to upgrade basically nothing and instead only added more redundancy of the same cheap components instead of using better components (which were available options which other brands did use).  Adding a bunch of the same cheap stuff doesn't add a lot to the price of a product.  Because you are able to buy in bulk, the more you implement, the price of each drops.  It is a cheap methodology.  It is by definition a "cheap" choice EVGA made.
Is it a surprise that the black screen/100% fan/blown fuse issue is predominantly an EVGA issue and that EVGA even has a special program to replace 3090 cards with problematic symptoms?  Is it a surprise that even cards which don't fail have been habitually reported to not perform well due to power balancing issues and inability to reach full rated power limits?  Could any of that be related to using the above mentioned cheap components?  I think yes.


Yes at 26:50 he straight says none of this affects anyone.

Again, buildzoid goes over what HE wants on the card for $810. But the cost of the card includes features other cards don't have. Ive listed those items.

Being "cheaper" would be designing a card below the spec and he literally goes over all the math with you on the screen about how it's still over engineered with a factory of safety.

Fair point on the FTW3 3090s, I don't own one. I've only owned 3080 and 3080 Ti and the performance they've had has rivaled the Strix. None of these compenents buildzoid is not happy about stops the EVGA cards from consuming a good portion of the top benchmarked cards on 3dmark.
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ty_ger07
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Re: I’ve heard that EVGA cheaper out on parts… 2021/08/02 21:16:37 (permalink)
KingEngineRevUp
Yes at 26:50 he straight says none of this affects anyone.

Again, but he was proven wrong though, wasn't he?  It has affected a lot of people.  A lot of people on this forum have been plagued with a lot of weird power balance issues, black screens, failing cards, and power throttling issues.  EVGA has even released different test BIOSes for a range of different cards for people to try, a special RMA program, etcetera.
 
There are some cheap components on these cards.  Admit it.  The decisions were purposeful.  Admit it.
post edited by ty_ger07 - 2021/08/02 21:19:48
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KingEngineRevUp
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Re: I’ve heard that EVGA cheaper out on parts… 2021/08/02 21:21:03 (permalink)
ty_ger07
KingEngineRevUp
Yes at 26:50 he straight says none of this affects anyone.

Again, but he was proven wrong though, wasn't he?  It has affected a lot of people.  A lot of people on this forum have been plagued with a lot of weird power balance issues, black screens, failing cards, and power throttling issues.  EVGA has even released different test BIOSes for a range of different cards for people to try, a special RMA program, etcetera.
 
There are some cheap components on these cards.  Admit it.  The decisions were purposeful.  Admit it.




This video was for the 3080, I don't see dozens of post like you claim of 3080s failing. So I don't know what you want me to admit to. I'm not a 3090 user nor is that video about the 3090. 
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ty_ger07
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Re: I’ve heard that EVGA cheaper out on parts… 2021/08/02 21:29:03 (permalink)
The whole product line utilizes the same basic design.  The issues with the 3090s have been reported with all the other products; just to a lesser degree due to less total design load.
 
The difference in component specifications is known and the difference in cost is measurable.  It was a conscious decision about which components to use which some other brands chose differently.  That's what I mean by "admit it".  It can't be argued. 
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KingEngineRevUp
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Re: I’ve heard that EVGA cheaper out on parts… 2021/08/02 21:35:53 (permalink)
ty_ger07
The whole product line utilizes the same basic design.  The issues with the 3090s have been reported with all the other products; just to a lesser degree due to less total design load.
 
The difference in component specifications is known and the difference in cost is measurable.  It was a conscious decision about which components to use which some other brands chose differently.  That's what I mean by "admit it".  It can't be argued. 




I said in a previous post the 3090 were crap. But I don't see failures for the 3080s and 3080 Tis like you're claiming. I'm still waiting for you to source some data. A quick google search of people complaining about their cards, it was like 9 Strix to 13 FTW3 3080s, that's still a lot for both or little if we knew how many actually sold. And that's the thing, we don't know how many EVGAs to ASUS cards were sold but we do know that EVGA has been awarded the highest NVIDIA seller IIRC. 
post edited by KingEngineRevUp - 2021/08/02 21:37:25
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ty_ger07
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Re: I’ve heard that EVGA cheaper out on parts… 2021/08/03 04:50:43 (permalink)
I don't have time to search for what you are requesting. All I know is that the majority of the series uses the same basic design, and there have been similar complaints to greater and lesser degrees among different models. When one model has a huge amount of documented complaints related to the VRM design, it's odd to argue that the exact same basic VRM design in another model is fine. In order to answer the original question, you have to focus on the choices made. The point I made is that this design is proven to use cheaper components and this design is proven to cause issues with some cards.

I think you are missing the point. Read the question. The answer is yes.
post edited by ty_ger07 - 2021/08/03 05:52:23
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rjohnson11
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Re: I’ve heard that EVGA cheaper out on parts… 2021/08/03 05:14:47 (permalink)
EVGA uses the best parts for their video cards. 

AMD Ryzen 9 5950X,  Corsair Mp600 Pro M.2, 128GB DDR4  Crosshair VIII Hero, RTX 3090ti FTW Ultra Associate Code: H5U80QBH6BH0AXF. I am NOT an employee of EVGA

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ty_ger07
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Re: I’ve heard that EVGA cheaper out on parts… 2021/08/03 05:25:09 (permalink)
rjohnson11
EVGA uses the best parts for their video cards. 

Well, I mean, that can just be simply proven false.
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neteng101
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Re: I’ve heard that EVGA cheaper out on parts… 2021/08/03 05:30:57 (permalink)
ty_ger07
The answer is yes.




 
The 30-series except for the KPE overall is marginal at best for component choices made by EVGA.  Cheaper components are used vs. more expensive components, that was the original question.  Even if the card doesn't die, it doesn't mean lesser components weren't chosen to save cost.
 
Could EVGA have done way better with their XC3/FTW3 Ampere cards?  ABSOLUTELY!  Luckily for them the GPU market is what it is so this didn't hurt the bottom line but its a repeat of the mistakes they made in Pascal.
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transdogmifier
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Re: I’ve heard that EVGA cheaper out on parts… 2021/08/03 05:33:37 (permalink)
I disagree, mine has been rock solid ..even on games others claim 'kill the card'.
 
*Shrug* Different people experience different results.
 
I will *ALWAYS* contend that if you cheap out on certain parts (say..oh, I don't know...a PSU).....you're going to have
major issues.
 
Why do you buy a 100 dollar PSU for 2000 dollar video card? And yeah, I know you don't like me saying this.
 
DO NOT CARE. You buy walmart level  parts, you get walmart level results.
 

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Re: I’ve heard that EVGA cheaper out on parts… 2021/08/03 06:24:45 (permalink)
I've heard the Earth is flat.
 
 
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glenn37216
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Re: I’ve heard that EVGA cheaper out on parts… 2021/08/03 08:32:01 (permalink)
jaredbyoung
I've heard the Earth is flat.

 
 It is in areas. But not in its entirety. 
 
 
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KingEngineRevUp
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Re: I’ve heard that EVGA cheaper out on parts… 2021/08/03 08:57:02 (permalink)
ty_ger07
I don't have time to search for what you are requesting. All I know is that the majority of the series uses the same basic design, and there have been similar complaints to greater and lesser degrees among different models. When one model has a huge amount of documented complaints related to the VRM design, it's odd to argue that the exact same basic VRM design in another model is fine. In order to answer the original question, you have to focus on the choices made. The point I made is that this design is proven to use cheaper components and this design is proven to cause issues with some cards.

I think you are missing the point. Read the question. The answer is yes.


But one model is failing far greater than the others and no one has done research to know exactly why. Is it the components that they share or don't share that's the issue? Otherwise we would see the same kind of failure in all of the FTW3 but we don't.
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Re: I’ve heard that EVGA cheaper out on parts… 2021/08/03 10:11:16 (permalink)
KingEngineRevUp
ty_ger07
I don't have time to search for what you are requesting. All I know is that the majority of the series uses the same basic design, and there have been similar complaints to greater and lesser degrees among different models. When one model has a huge amount of documented complaints related to the VRM design, it's odd to argue that the exact same basic VRM design in another model is fine. In order to answer the original question, you have to focus on the choices made. The point I made is that this design is proven to use cheaper components and this design is proven to cause issues with some cards.

I think you are missing the point. Read the question. The answer is yes.


But one model is failing far greater than the others and no one has done research to know exactly why. Is it the components that they share or don't share that's the issue? Otherwise we would see the same kind of failure in all of the FTW3 but we don't.

The power limit is significantly lower, and the failures consistently look to be caused by repeatedly hitting overcurrent protection until finally the VRM pops, exacerbated by the fact that some power inputs are overloaded while others are not, due to power balance issues caused by a cheap VRM controller and mismatched supporting components.
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KingEngineRevUp
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Re: I’ve heard that EVGA cheaper out on parts… 2021/08/03 10:34:30 (permalink)
ty_ger07
KingEngineRevUp
ty_ger07
I don't have time to search for what you are requesting. All I know is that the majority of the series uses the same basic design, and there have been similar complaints to greater and lesser degrees among different models. When one model has a huge amount of documented complaints related to the VRM design, it's odd to argue that the exact same basic VRM design in another model is fine. In order to answer the original question, you have to focus on the choices made. The point I made is that this design is proven to use cheaper components and this design is proven to cause issues with some cards.

I think you are missing the point. Read the question. The answer is yes.


But one model is failing far greater than the others and no one has done research to know exactly why. Is it the components that they share or don't share that's the issue? Otherwise we would see the same kind of failure in all of the FTW3 but we don't.

The power limit is significantly lower, and the failures consistently look to be caused by repeatedly hitting overcurrent protection until finally the VRM pops, exacerbated by the fact that some power inputs are overloaded while others are not, due to power balance issues caused by a cheap VRM controller and mismatched supporting components.



At the end of the day, you're asking me to admit that the 3080 and 3080 Ti uses cheap components because the 3090 failed, even though we don't see 3080 and 3080 Ti having nearly the same failure rate. 
 
I don't know how I'm supposed to admit to this when the math says otherwise. 
 
Again, my point was for $810 dollars and $110 over the 3080 FE, what is someone actually paying for? I listed it.
  1. Has a better cooling method (Sure, you can argue this for all AIB partner cards, that's where their price starts driving up)
  2. Has aRGB
  3. Has an aRGB header to control a 70 light strip (Most if not all partners don't have this)
  4. Has a PWM header to control case fans based off of GPU temperature (Most if not all partners don't have this)
  5. Has iCX sensors (Most if not all partners don't have this)
If Buildzoid doesn't like the card because he doesn't think the +$110 is worth the above items, fair enough, that's perfectly fine. There's other cards he and other users can get that that can satisfy their criteria. But as it is.
  • The 3080 and 3080 Ti are not failing at the level of the 3090 like you tried to claim they were.
  • Both of these cards hold up in performance regardless of the parts they have, the majority of the top benchmarks are EVGA cards followed by ASUS on 3Dmark
If the cards aren't failing and they're performing, then what else is there to complain about? The aesthetics?
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Hefbn87
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Re: I’ve heard that EVGA cheaper out on parts… 2021/08/03 11:12:01 (permalink)
KingEngineRevUp
 
If the cards aren't failing and they're performing, then what else is there to complain about? The aesthetics?




Are you sure your high estimate of the reliability of 3080s is accurate though? I've seen a lot of reports of 3080 FTW3s dying. Back in winter when I was reading those reports, I was hoping my 3080 would be OK. Then it started dying a few days later. Recently I've seen some people on here describe their 3080s die after they worked seemingly without issue for 10 months. The situation does not look good for the entire 30 series.
#28
ty_ger07
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Re: I’ve heard that EVGA cheaper out on parts… 2021/08/03 11:24:27 (permalink)
KingEngineRevUp
At the end of the day, you're asking me to admit that the 3080 and 3080 Ti uses cheap components ...

They used the cheapest voltage controller, right? What is the argument? Wasn't that the question ultimately? It was YOU who wanted to argue model numbers, failure rates, and causes of failures. I have tried to entertain you, but I am getting bored of it.

If the cards aren't failing and they're performing, then what else is there to complain about? The aesthetics?

Some are failing and some are underperforming, right? A lot of 3090s have been failing since the beginning. They didn't start failing when New World came out. All of the XC3s are underforming for a majority of owners, and many 3090s were underperforming to the point that EVGA had to start a special RMA exchange email address and process.

Again, I don't want to entertain you more on this.
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KingEngineRevUp
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Re: I’ve heard that EVGA cheaper out on parts… 2021/08/03 11:36:35 (permalink)
Hefbn87
KingEngineRevUp
 
If the cards aren't failing and they're performing, then what else is there to complain about? The aesthetics?




Are you sure your high estimate of the reliability of 3080s is accurate though? I've seen a lot of reports of 3080 FTW3s dying. Back in winter when I was reading those reports, I was hoping my 3080 would be OK. Then it started dying a few days later. Recently I've seen some people on here describe their 3080s die after they worked seemingly without issue for 10 months. The situation does not look good for the entire 30 series.




I am at least certain they're not failing at the level the 3090 FTW3 are. As for how many fail compared to how many are sold, that's impossible information for us to know. IIRC, EVGA is the leading seller of NVIDIA cards, so it's possible we see more failure rates from EVGA than we do other cards, but a quick google search through reddit showed 9 3080 Strix death post to 13 3080 FTW3 death post. When I say quick, this was a real quick search, I didn't comb through all the data. So it's not like the Strix, aren't failing either. How many Strix to FTW3 have been sold? Don't know. 
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