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Hot!It's been almost 2 years...

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ApexAZ
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2021/08/29 11:10:25 (permalink)
...since I signed up for the GTX wait list.  TWO full years.
 
I realize the pandemic screwed things up, yadda yadda, but the industry has had 2 years to sort it out.  And now nvidia is starting to say this will persist through 2022, so a 3rd year of this nonsense?

At what point does this quit being a JIT manufacturing oops and just become an epic money grab?
 
The industry needs to sort this out.
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    gsrcrxsi
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    Re: It's been almost 2 years... 2021/08/29 11:13:21 (permalink)
    wut?
     
    the EVGA queue has only bee in existence for like 10-11 months. you have not been waiting for 2 years.
    post edited by gsrcrxsi - 2021/08/29 11:14:25

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    Lordred
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    Re: It's been almost 2 years... 2021/08/29 11:16:02 (permalink)
    gsrcrxsi
    wut?
     
    the EVGA queue has only bee in existence for like 10-11 months. you have not been waiting for 2 years.


    Don't take this from him by bringing facts into the equation.

     
    #3
    RainStryke
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    Re: It's been almost 2 years... 2021/08/29 11:23:15 (permalink)
    post edited by RainStryke - 2021/08/29 11:24:37

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    ApexAZ
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    Re: It's been almost 2 years... 2021/08/29 11:28:48 (permalink)
    Sorry, I've been on the wait list about a year, but the shortage is about 2 years. 
     
    Nonetheless, they need to sort it out.
    #5
    transdogmifier
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    Re: It's been almost 2 years... 2021/08/29 12:03:46 (permalink)
    10 to 11 months is still a ridiculous amount of time to wait.
     
    it's not eVGA's fault, tho. You can blame the wuhan virus situation and your comrades in charge for screwing things up.
     
     

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    XrayMan
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    Re: It's been almost 2 years... 2021/08/29 13:58:43 (permalink)
    Lordred
    gsrcrxsi
    wut?
     
    the EVGA queue has only bee in existence for like 10-11 months. you have not been waiting for 2 years.


    Don't take this from him by bringing facts into the equation.



      

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    safan80
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    Re: It's been almost 2 years... 2021/08/29 14:13:17 (permalink)
    ApexAZ
    ...since I signed up for the GTX wait list.  TWO full years.
     
    I realize the pandemic screwed things up, yadda yadda, but the industry has had 2 years to sort it out.  And now nvidia is starting to say this will persist through 2022, so a 3rd year of this nonsense?

    At what point does this quit being a JIT manufacturing oops and just become an epic money grab?
     
    The industry needs to sort this out.




    Do you realize that current supply is dependent on prior contract agreements? Nvidia and AMD underestimated demand in 2019 when they put in their orders to TSMC.
     
    ApexAZ
    Sorry, I've been on the wait list about a year, but the shortage is about 2 years. 
     
    Nonetheless, they need to sort it out.


    The wait list has not been around for a year. Nvidia already stated the supply problems will not go away anytime soon.
     
    https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/19/22632047/nvidia-gpu-supply-rtx-30-series-constraints-2022
     
    https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/nvidia-ceo-expects-chip-shortage-continue-throughout-2022/
     
    Nvidia linksWhile there are signs that imply the situation might be improving, Jensen Huang, CEO of Nvidia, expects the shortage to continue well into 2022.

    #8
    Flint 1760
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    Re: It's been almost 2 years... 2021/08/29 14:16:58 (permalink)
    ApexAZ
    Nonetheless, they need to sort it out.



    Just out of curiosity, which part of the industry needs to sort this out? 
     
    The fabs are running at max capacity and can't meet demand.  New fabs are being built and/or expanded, but they won't be online for 2-3 years.
     
    Production position of chips are negotiated far in advance, once your run is done, you get back in line until your next turn.  Every industry is in the same position.
     
    Chip integration into all industries has increased by huge amounts over the last twenty years and it is still increasing.  The pandemic brought it to a head.  This will eventually get better as production ability increases, but there is still a large backlog across all industries.  Automakers stockpiled chips for car production and look what has happened to them.
     
    There is simply not enough capacity at the present time to meet the pent up demand much less the new.  The capacity will increase eventually and you will probably see more fabs/expansions coming online in the decades ahead.
     
    Bottom line is don't expect things to be back to "normal" any time soon.  My swag on close to normal again is Q1 2023 or later and I really hope I'm wrong and that it is sooner.
    post edited by Flint 1760 - 2021/08/29 15:29:51


    #9
    rjbarker
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    Re: It's been almost 2 years... 2021/08/29 14:47:21 (permalink)
    ApexAZ
    Sorry, I've been on the wait list about a year, but the shortage is about 2 years. 
     
    Nonetheless, they need to sort it out.




    Well I would suggest you get more "proactive" finding a Card and this doesnt necessarily mean purchasing a ridiculously priced Card from ebay or other sources, many of us here thru shear determination and perseverance (and some luck) have found Cards.
    - On waiting list for Evga 3080 FTW3 Ultra since 12 Oct 2020: Got my card at retail price in March 2021
    - On waiting list for Evga 3080 Ti FTW3 Ultra on launch day 0858 PDST 6 June (I think): paid retail about 3 weeks ago.
    If your not very proactive, you'll be stuck in the queue for awhile.
    I pulled my name out of the queue for all the Cards I was signed up for once I got the 3080Ti....so one less person in line ;)

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    wardvader
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    Re: It's been almost 2 years... 2021/08/29 14:56:26 (permalink)
    I'm more mad at the fact that we pay almost flagship money for a card (3080) that is now going to be the third tier down because of the possible 3090 super. Granted inflation has a hand in this as well, but the standard 80 series have never been this high. Also Nvidia seems perfectly capable of securing the higher profit SKUs, but then just sticking it to the mid-low tier SKUs
    #11
    ApexAZ
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    Re: It's been almost 2 years... 2021/08/29 15:04:23 (permalink)
    I'm fairly sure I signed up for the queue in September.  So not a full year, but close enough.
     
     
    Flint 1760
     
     
    Just out of curiosity, which part of the industry needs to sort this out? 
     

     
    Nvidia, primarily.  And just too lean JIT manufacturing in general.  I realize this isn't just EVGA's fault.
     
    Flint 1760
    Chip integration into all industries has increased by huge amounts over the last twenty years and it is still increasing.  

     
    ding, ding, ding, we have a winner!  So then, how did they mess up their forecasts so bad, that it caused a 3 year shortage when the problem has been snowballing for years before finally reaching critical mass?  Hopefully companies learn from this and maybe scale back on the lean concepts just a tad (like Toyota).
     
     
    Flint 1760
    There is simply not enough capacity at the present time to meet the pent up demand much less the new.  

     
    No doubt.  I might just pick up an AMD card to use for the next few years.
    #12
    rjbarker
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    Re: It's been almost 2 years... 2021/08/29 15:06:15 (permalink)
    wardvader
    I'm more mad at the fact that we pay almost flagship money for a card (3080) that is now going to be the third tier down because of the possible 3090 super. Granted inflation has a hand in this as well, but the standard 80 series have never been this high. Also Nvidia seems perfectly capable of securing the higher profit SKUs, but then just sticking it to the mid-low tier SKUs



    Actually the last great deal on GPU's (other than a 3080 @ retail) was the GTX 1080Ti.
    The 2080Ti was "stupidly priced" out of the gate (about the same as a 3080Ti now @ retail), many of us skipped that Gen all together due to both price and RT immaturity.

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    #13
    ApexAZ
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    Re: It's been almost 2 years... 2021/08/29 15:13:08 (permalink)
    I was trying to be proactive for several months of dealing with best buy queues and newegg shuffle nonsense.  So I *might* be able to get a 3080 from a shuffle if I'm willing to buy a monitor or some other piece of hardware that I don't necessarily need, but I'm just not willing to let newegg gouge me by taking advantage of the situation; especially after being a loyal customer for like 15 years.  Plus, my time is more valuable than that.
     
    The EVGA queue was a nice gesture, but it's not a great experience getting nothing but marketing for things I can't seem to buy for the past year, with absolutely no sense of where my position is within the line.
    post edited by ApexAZ - 2021/08/29 15:16:26
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    rjbarker
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    Re: It's been almost 2 years... 2021/08/29 15:18:23 (permalink)
    ApexAZ
    I was trying to be proactive for several months of dealing with best buy queues and newegg shuffle nonsense.  So I *might* be able to get a 3080 from a shuffle if I'm willing to buy a monitor or some other piece of hardware that I don't necessarily need, but I'm just not willing to let newegg gouge me by taking advantage of the situation; especially after being a loyal customer for like 15 years.  Plus, my time is more valuable than that.
     
    The EVGA queue was a nice gesture, but it's not a great experience getting nothing but marketing for things I can't seem to buy for the past year, with absolutely no sense of where my position is within the line.




    Yep and were al battling with the scalpers.....multi card purchases at BB (or wherever) then sell for profit...all part of the problem and contributing to the problem....glad I got my Cards at retail and can walk away from this sfvt show for awhile now ;)

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    #15
    ObscureEmpyre
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    Re: It's been almost 2 years... 2021/08/29 15:31:13 (permalink)
    ApexAZ
    I'm fairly sure I signed up for the queue in September.  So not a full year, but close enough.
     
     
    Flint 1760
     
     
    Just out of curiosity, which part of the industry needs to sort this out? 
     

     
    Nvidia, primarily.  And just too lean JIT manufacturing in general.  I realize this isn't just EVGA's fault.
     
    Flint 1760
    Chip integration into all industries has increased by huge amounts over the last twenty years and it is still increasing.  

     
    ding, ding, ding, we have a winner!  So then, how did they mess up their forecasts so bad, that it caused a 3 year shortage when the problem has been snowballing for years before finally reaching critical mass?  Hopefully companies learn from this and maybe scale back on the lean concepts just a tad (like Toyota).
     
     
    Flint 1760
    There is simply not enough capacity at the present time to meet the pent up demand much less the new.  

     
    No doubt.  I might just pick up an AMD card to use for the next few years.

    How did they screw up the forecast? Simple: human malware. The pandemic prompted way more people than usual to buy up laptops, desktops, and individual components. Couple that with already having been leaning towards a chip shortage and voila! You get very limited availability.

    Also, considering RTX has been a thing since 2018, there’s no way anyone’s been in queue for a GTX card for 2 years. I mean, the 1660 has been around for a couple of years. If that’s that card you’ve been after all this time, you failed.

    As someone else mentioned, be proactive. I was able to get a 3080 Ti and 3080 via the Newegg shuffle. That’s two cards in as many months. There are definitely ways to obtain them. You just have to be proactive and maybe lucky in some cases.


    #16
    McAztec
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    Re: It's been almost 2 years... 2021/08/30 03:16:14 (permalink)
    Flint 1760
    ApexAZ
    Nonetheless, they need to sort it out.



    Just out of curiosity, which part of the industry needs to sort this out? 
     
    The fabs are running at max capacity and can't meet demand.  New fabs are being built and/or expanded, but they won't be online for 2-3 years.
     
    Production position of chips are negotiated far in advance, once your run is done, you get back in line until your next turn.  Every industry is in the same position.
     
    Chip integration into all industries has increased by huge amounts over the last twenty years and it is still increasing.  The pandemic brought it to a head.  This will eventually get better as production ability increases, but there is still a large backlog across all industries.  Automakers stockpiled chips for car production and look what has happened to them.
     
    There is simply not enough capacity at the present time to meet the pent up demand much less the new.  The capacity will increase eventually and you will probably see more fabs/expansions coming online in the decades ahead.
     
    Bottom line is don't expect things to be back to "normal" any time soon.  My swag on close to normal again is Q1 2023 or later and I really hope I'm wrong and that it is sooner.




     
    If I may throw my two cents in as well, the manufacturing part is doing it's best as you're saying, it's the rest that's the problem. All the middleman type businesses that mark 'em up and pre-gauge them scalping the retailers, the retailers gouging the market, the aforementioned middlemen and distributors that jump at the opportunity to sell a pallet to a mining business or some dude reselling them on ebay instead of sending it to a store to sell B2C, all these elements that allow all these other alternative ways to get GPUs outside of the normal flow of the market, the stores not implementing any checks, limits, bot prevention, multibuy prevention, etc.
     
    Don't get me wrong, if a miner's willing to pay double for a GPU, fine, that's tough luck for me and it's completely fair, the problem is that he doesn't have to compete with me and the average Joe at a store (online or offline) he doesn't have to register for a queue, set up his tent at an actual store, etc, he grabs them ahead of everyone else, on an alternate route that is unavailable to others. If he had to place orders on retail stores, stand in the EVGA queue with the rest of us suckers waiting for a drop that'd be dandy and I couldn't complain because there is nothing to complain about, what he does with it it's his problem, it's just how he gets it that is the problem imo. What I mean is that most people feel cheated, that it's unfair they have to wait in line and others don't, that some people use the backdoor, jump the fence, etc. They don't eat from the same pie we do, the pie comes pre-eaten and we just get some crumbs, and that just feels wrong and rubs people the wrong way. Things could be done about this, like EVGA did with the queue, but at stores as well, at other manufacturers (most of which don't even have such stores, nor do they deliver directly in the EU, great help that...), limits of x per customer so you can't buy 40 at once for example, validations with your phone number maybe, a consultant calling your ass to make sure you're legit, idk. Some stores resorted to manual validations of orders to prevent bots, which is a first step, and is great, I'm only sad to say it's probably too little too late, but at least they tried and that counts for something as well.
     
    Anyways, nothing to do atm but sit tight, keep checking the prices and deal with it I guess. The fact that prices go back up every now and then it's a good sign imo, it means that when the prices drop some, a few people buy cards, retailers think that's the sweet spot, raise them a little, see the demand dries back up and then they gotta lower them again. An average price chart may look linear, but if you look at it closely it most likely resembles some stocks or such, going up and down continuously while following an average trend. Hang in there fellas, it'll get better.
     
    Also a side note, on the local variant of craigslist or whatnot it seems there are some GPUs that are cheaper than in stores, with warranty from said stores and all that, and it boggles my mind because I wouldn't figure someone selling a 3080 under market price. Normally I'd figure they're cutting their losses on something, but what losses in a brand new, sealed 3080? Or did they get it that cheap and they are still making some kinda profit? Maybe they used an obscenely high employee discount, or some special voucher? Maybe it was a gift and they already have a 3090? One can only wonder...
     
    #17
    kevinc313
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    Re: It's been almost 2 years... 2021/08/30 05:39:02 (permalink)
    rjbarker
     
    The 2080Ti was "stupidly priced" out of the gate (about the same as a 3080Ti now @ retail), many of us skipped that Gen all together due to both price and RT immaturity.




    In hindsight the 2080 Ti was a great card and still handily beats a 3070 Ti when cooled and fed 350w+.  Still relevant 3 years later.
    #18
    ObscureEmpyre
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    Re: It's been almost 2 years... 2021/08/30 06:40:55 (permalink)
    rjbarker
    wardvader
    I'm more mad at the fact that we pay almost flagship money for a card (3080) that is now going to be the third tier down because of the possible 3090 super. Granted inflation has a hand in this as well, but the standard 80 series have never been this high. Also Nvidia seems perfectly capable of securing the higher profit SKUs, but then just sticking it to the mid-low tier SKUs



    Actually the last great deal on GPU's (other than a 3080 @ retail) was the GTX 1080Ti.
    The 2080Ti was "stupidly priced" out of the gate (about the same as a 3080Ti now @ retail), many of us skipped that Gen all together due to both price and RT immaturity.

    In case you forgot, the RTX 2080 Ti was originally labeled as Nvidia’s flagship 2000 series GPU and as a GTX Titan upgrade, so it was priced accordingly. Then, Nvidia came out with the RTX Titan followed by some Ti variants as well as the Super lineup. It’s all a marketing gimmick from the company at this point. With that in mind, and with shortages aside, I’d recommend waiting a year or so after a new series’ release for all the SKUs to be released, then buy according to your preference and/or needs (or wallet).


    #19
    ApexAZ
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    Re: It's been almost 2 years... 2021/08/30 08:58:24 (permalink)
    One thing that bothers me is the EVGA Elite status.
     
    How is it fair that someone who got lucky and got a card they can register can now be considered "elite" and gain perks that provide more opportunity to buy even more cards, while someone like me who has been unlucky, now just goes further down the queue line?
    #20
    ObscureEmpyre
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    Re: It's been almost 2 years... 2021/08/30 09:04:17 (permalink)
    ApexAZ
    One thing that bothers me is the EVGA Elite status.
     
    How is it fair that someone who got lucky and got a card they can register can now be considered "elite" and gain perks that provide more opportunity to buy even more cards, while someone like me who has been unlucky, now just goes further down the queue line?


    Historically, that's how one would obtain Elite status, by buying and registering higher-end cards no matter where they were purchased from. Now, that's part of it along with posting 100 times here on the forum.


    #21
    Flint 1760
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    Re: It's been almost 2 years... 2021/08/30 10:53:34 (permalink)
    ObscureEmpyre
    ApexAZ
    One thing that bothers me is the EVGA Elite status.
     
    How is it fair that someone who got lucky and got a card they can register can now be considered "elite" and gain perks that provide more opportunity to buy even more cards, while someone like me who has been unlucky, now just goes further down the queue line?


    Historically, that's how one would obtain Elite status, by buying and registering higher-end cards no matter where they were purchased from. Now, that's part of it along with posting 100 times here on the forum.



    @ObscureEmpyre is correct, you had to purchase x number of EVGA products over a period of time, 12 or 18 months and I don't remember how long, to become elite and there was no post requirement.
     
    @ApexAZ:  Your position in any queue you are in doesn't change because someone made elite and is in the same queue. The only advantage elite gives is the 24 hour exclusive access on new releases and there haven't been any in some months. 


    #22
    rjbarker
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    Re: It's been almost 2 years... 2021/08/30 11:05:26 (permalink)
    ObscureEmpyre
    rjbarker
    wardvader
    I'm more mad at the fact that we pay almost flagship money for a card (3080) that is now going to be the third tier down because of the possible 3090 super. Granted inflation has a hand in this as well, but the standard 80 series have never been this high. Also Nvidia seems perfectly capable of securing the higher profit SKUs, but then just sticking it to the mid-low tier SKUs



    Actually the last great deal on GPU's (other than a 3080 @ retail) was the GTX 1080Ti.
    The 2080Ti was "stupidly priced" out of the gate (about the same as a 3080Ti now @ retail), many of us skipped that Gen all together due to both price and RT immaturity.

    In case you forgot, the RTX 2080 Ti was originally labeled as Nvidia’s flagship 2000 series GPU and as a GTX Titan upgrade, so it was priced accordingly. Then, Nvidia came out with the RTX Titan followed by some Ti variants as well as the Super lineup. It’s all a marketing gimmick from the company at this point. With that in mind, and with shortages aside, I’d recommend waiting a year or so after a new series’ release for all the SKUs to be released, then buy according to your preference and/or needs (or wallet).



    Most of us enthusiasts stayed away from Titan variants due to the unnecessary amount of VRAM, lack of performance gains or minimal performance gains vs Ti Cards and once again stupidly high pricing.
     
    Coming off of previous Gen TI's 780Ti around $700CDN and then 1080Ti $850 CDN (massive improvement over 780Ti and 980Ti (( 9xx series was also worth skipping if you already had 780Ti's)) ), the 2080Ti was stupidly priced at around $1699 - $1799 CDN. The price simply reflected nv gouging customers for the "New RT technology".....really it was that simple.
    Fortunately I was running WC'd 1080Ti SLi so made no sense to ditch them for that Card (other to see immature Ray Tracing).
     
    Now the 3xxx series, particularly 3080 at $1159 CDN is a great deal with once again massive gains over the 2080Ti.and reasonably priced in Canada.....makes total sense.
     

    I9 12900K EK Velocity2 / ROG Z690 Apex/ 32G Dominator DDR5 6000/ Evga RTX 3080Ti FTW3  EK Vector / 980 Pro 512G / 980 Pro 1TB/ Samsung 860 Pro 500G/ WD 4TB Red / AX 1600i /  Corsair 900D & XSPC 480 * 360 * 240 Rads   XSPC Photon 170 Rez-Vario Pump Combo - Alienware 3440*1440p 120Hz/ W11
     
    #23
    kevinc313
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    Re: It's been almost 2 years... 2021/08/30 11:08:09 (permalink)
    I mean, it is called "Elite" for a reason.  It's not called "every teenager on reddit".
    #24
    kevinc313
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    Re: It's been almost 2 years... 2021/08/30 11:10:48 (permalink)
    rjbarkerNow the 3xxx series, particularly 3080 at $1159 CDN is a great deal with once again massive gains over the 2080Ti.and reasonably priced in Canada.....makes total sense.
     




    At similar power levels and cooling, the 3080 is like 10% faster than a 2080 Ti.  And you could have owned that level of performance 2 years earlier. 
    #25
    Lordred
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    Re: It's been almost 2 years... 2021/08/30 11:11:26 (permalink)
    rjbarker
    Most of us enthusiasts stayed away from Titan variants due to the unnecessary amount of VRAM, lack of performance gains or minimal performance gains vs Ti Cards and once again stupidly high pricing.
     

    I agree with the Turing based Titans, but lots of enthusiasts mobbed to the Titan(s) during the Fermi/Maxwell/Pascel days I myself own a Fermi and Maxwell Titan.

     
    #26
    ApexAZ
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    Re: It's been almost 2 years... 2021/08/30 11:19:04 (permalink)
    kevinc313
    I mean, it is called "Elite" for a reason.  It's not called "every teenager on reddit".


     
    I mean, I'm 42 years old, and I'm too busy to sit and scour the internet for hours a day trying to get a card.  I could easily buy a scalped card, but I don't want to encourage that nonsense, nor do I really want to overpay when I could better leverage the money elsewhere.
     
    From my perspective, it's anyone who was lucky enough to get a card.  The requirements for "Elite" don't seem very elite.
     
    "EVGA members who have purchased and registered ONE of the products listed in the box below.
    Product registration is required."
     
    Yeah, super elite.  It's either get lucky with a card, be a content creator / streamer, or post a lot in these forums.  So here you have it, I'm posting.  How can I get to the front of the line when the next product launches without being some lucky catch-22?
    post edited by ApexAZ - 2021/08/30 11:27:23
    #27
    jaredbyoung
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    Re: It's been almost 2 years... 2021/08/30 11:26:31 (permalink)
    ApexAZ
    kevinc313
    I mean, it is called "Elite" for a reason.  It's not called "every teenager on reddit".


     
    I mean, I'm 42 years old, and I'm too busy to sit and scour the internet for hours a day trying to get a card.  I could easily buy a scalped card, but I don't want to encourage that nonsense.
     
    From my perspective, it's anyone who was lucky enough to get a card.  The requirements for "Elite" don't seem very elite.
     
    "EVGA members who have purchased and registered ONE of the products listed in the box below.
    Product registration is required."
     
    Yeah, super elite.  It's either get lucky with a card, be a content creator / streamer, or post a lot in these forums.  So here you have it, I'm posting.  How can I get to the front of the line when the next product launches? 


    EVGA is focused on developing brand loyalty. "Elite" status is part of that strategy. There doesn't need to be anything elite about the people who qualify, it just needs to encourage people to try to qualify and then to purchase EVGA products instead of competitors products. It seems like it does that.
    #28
    ApexAZ
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    Re: It's been almost 2 years... 2021/08/30 11:29:57 (permalink)
     I can't be loyal to a brand whose products I have been unsuccessful obtaining over almost 2 years.  I would *love* to be brand loyal, but I can't find a card to enable that.
     
    I get the concept and don't even necessarily disagree with it.  It just doesn't work when you can't reach the majority of your customers with the products.  As someone who has been unsuccessful, it leaves a sour taste in my mouth.  That's valid feedback for EVGA.
    post edited by ApexAZ - 2021/08/30 11:31:49
    #29
    rottentreats
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    Re: It's been almost 2 years... 2021/08/30 11:40:17 (permalink)
    Sounds good more cards for the rest of us in the future :D Seriously though, if you join the EVGA train and queue late you wait. Back of the line buddy.  Do you really think they are causing the limited supply intentionally?  Do you think they control all the variables at play in the manufacturing process?
     
    There is no point in making these threads, you will not change anything.

    GPU: EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti FTW3 ULTRA HYBRID

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    #30
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