Net30
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I have a 3090 ftw3u that I bought new at Microcenter about a month ago. I'm going to be installing a Optimus waterblock in a custom Loop. My question is if shunting is necessary or optimal for daily use? Am I leaving performance on the table? I'm not interested in extreme overclocking. Only additional performance if it is there. With three radiators and 9 fans I don't anticipate cooling being a problem.
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CraptacularOne
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Re: Is shunting necessary? 3090 ftw3 ultra
2021/04/18 16:19:48
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All you will accomplish by shunt modding the card is to void your warranty and accelerate it's degradation. You absolutely don't need to hardware mod the card for daily use.
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rjbarker
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Re: Is shunting necessary? 3090 ftw3 ultra
2021/04/18 18:30:18
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^^^^^ The only reason some folks are considering shunting is to get past the borked PCI-E #3 Plug on some 3080 n 3090 Cards so we can actually continue to OC to at least the 450w that the XOC Bios provides (so it actually works like it should and like other un-crippled 3080 / 3090's, didnt realize there was a 3080 FTW3 Ultra "B" n "A" Grade....too bad its nothing but crickets from Evga regarding this matter!
post edited by rjbarker - 2021/04/18 18:32:45
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Net30
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Re: Is shunting necessary? 3090 ftw3 ultra
2021/04/18 19:13:47
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Net30
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Re: Is shunting necessary? 3090 ftw3 ultra
2021/04/18 19:16:11
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So the extra power isn't helpful for mining or rendering? If in a loop and head isn't a concern. You not hitting power caps?
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Ericthegreat
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Re: Is shunting necessary? 3090 ftw3 ultra
2021/04/18 20:02:54
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No it's more for extreme overclocking.
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nolchocinco
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Re: Is shunting necessary? 3090 ftw3 ultra
2021/04/18 20:43:09
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rjbarker ^^^^^ The only reason some folks are considering shunting is to get past the borked PCI-E #3 Plug on some 3080 n 3090 Cards so we can actually continue to OC to at least the 450w that the XOC Bios provides (so it actually works like it should and like other un-crippled 3080 / 3090's, didnt realize there was a 3080 FTW3 Ultra "B" n "A" Grade....too bad its nothing but crickets from Evga regarding this matter!
Wow, first time hearing about there being A and B grade FTW3 3080s. Maybe that's why mine has been pretty below average of others. *shrugs* Still does everything I need it to though, just not getting the great clocks I've read from others
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bmgjet
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Re: Is shunting necessary? 3090 ftw3 ultra
2021/04/18 20:51:20
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Just flash the 1000W bios and you dont need to shunt mod it. But any way the real question should be do you need more power. 3090 scales really well with power up until 520W. Then it starts slowing down but you still get gains all the way up to 600W if you can cool it. Those 10,496 cuda cores love to be feed power.
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Net30
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Re: Is shunting necessary? 3090 ftw3 ultra
2021/04/18 23:28:22
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bmgjet Just flash the 1000W bios and you dont need to shunt mod it. But any way the real question should be do you need more power. 3090 scales really well with power up until 520W. Then it starts slowing down but you still get gains all the way up to 600W if you can cool it. Those 10,496 cuda cores love to be feed power.
1000w bios would still hit a 450w ftw3 ultra shunt restriction, no? I guess the answer to do I need more power? Would be yes. I actually need another 3090, and will get it sooner or later. Even then, I want the performance I paid for and not some artificial limit from evga being lame trying to make sure they sell more KP cards. Really feel like doing it off principle. Huge turn off as a first time evga buyer. I mean really, what is the third 8 pin ever for? When people are pulling over 500 off 2 pin cards with the same bios? I wonder if evga knows how many customers they loose over this next gen vs how much they gain by forcing the kp limiter. I would have gladly paid an extra 200 for the kp but they never found stock. If I get. Choice it won't be ftw3 or evga at all. Seems like the comments are from people who've decided against it. I would really value the opinion of someone who has shunted on water and what the results are. If performance scaled well past 500 and total draw vs pcie power.
post edited by Net30 - 2021/04/18 23:35:22
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talon951
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Re: Is shunting necessary? 3090 ftw3 ultra
2021/04/20 15:17:27
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I'm not sure if the KP XOC bios (1kw) will power limit because of poor balancing or not. I know I can push my 2 8pin Zotac past 75w on the pcie with it. Just be careful as your card has a 10amp fuze that can blow if it pushes over 100w (120w theoretically).
I think you'd just have to try it. Work the power up slowly and monitor as you go.
Edit: your stuck with a non resize bar KP XOC bios for now though unless someone leaks the new one. EVGA is trying harder to keep that from happening unfortunately.
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rjbarker
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Re: Is shunting necessary? 3090 ftw3 ultra
2021/04/20 19:31:39
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In some cases due to crippled PCI-E #3 plug only drawing 1/2 the power of either #1 and #2 plugs the card is restricted to 400w...regardless of what Bios you flash to.....thats the point of the power balance shunt mod...to correct this....no idea why some 3080's n 3090's have this issue....and many don't......I have yet to see any explanation from Evga regarding this. Although even with this power restriction my Card can still boost nicely to around 2115 - 2130 Mhz.....but thats it..no more. There is a thread I found that points to cheap analog power controller on the pcb.....vs higher end digital power controller (found on all Asus Strix Cards, which of course dont have this issue).
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god503
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Re: Is shunting necessary? 3090 ftw3 ultra
2021/04/20 20:00:51
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I have been using the 1k bios since i got my optimus block at the beginging of the year. The water block is a beast and my card never goes above 52C while drawing max power. Max watts i have ever drawn was 650 watts on time spy extreme. The card wont draw more then that unless you voltage mod it. Max stable setting meaning i can fly a 747 on MSFS2020 from JFK to Athens Greece doesnt go past 550 while gaming. So no dont shunt.
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RafaPorsche
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Re: Is shunting necessary? 3090 ftw3 ultra
2021/04/21 03:39:28
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Net30
bmgjet Just flash the 1000W bios and you dont need to shunt mod it. But any way the real question should be do you need more power. 3090 scales really well with power up until 520W. Then it starts slowing down but you still get gains all the way up to 600W if you can cool it. Those 10,496 cuda cores love to be feed power.
1000w bios would still hit a 450w ftw3 ultra shunt restriction, no? I guess the answer to do I need more power? Would be yes. I actually need another 3090, and will get it sooner or later. Even then, I want the performance I paid for and not some artificial limit from evga being lame trying to make sure they sell more KP cards. Really feel like doing it off principle. Huge turn off as a first time evga buyer. I mean really, what is the third 8 pin ever for? When people are pulling over 500 off 2 pin cards with the same bios?
I wonder if evga knows how many customers they loose over this next gen vs how much they gain by forcing the kp limiter. I would have gladly paid an extra 200 for the kp but they never found stock. If I get. Choice it won't be ftw3 or evga at all.
Seems like the comments are from people who've decided against it. I would really value the opinion of someone who has shunted on water and what the results are. If performance scaled well past 500 and total draw vs pcie power.
If people are actually pulling over 500w from 2-pins they're risking setting their system on fire. 2 8 pins are not designed to hold the current required to push 500w (they're designed to max 375 counting PCIe slot power if I'm not mistaken). With 3-pin you can get 525W max safely. Pushing it over that threshold is actually dangerous. My 3080 FTW3 with the XOC Bios does reach 450W every once in a while (4K high settings, OC to 2160mhz core +800 mem). But does not need it at all times to reach the set clock speed at the temps required. I'm more limited by temperature (thanks Nvidia GPU Boost) than Power at the moment. Won't lie, if I waterblock it I would want at least 500W, but I wouldn't want to go over the rated current as I risk burning through my PSU cables and frying and bunch of stuff.
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talon951
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Re: Is shunting necessary? 3090 ftw3 ultra
2021/04/21 05:55:06
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RafaPorsche
Net30
bmgjet Just flash the 1000W bios and you dont need to shunt mod it. But any way the real question should be do you need more power. 3090 scales really well with power up until 520W. Then it starts slowing down but you still get gains all the way up to 600W if you can cool it. Those 10,496 cuda cores love to be feed power.
1000w bios would still hit a 450w ftw3 ultra shunt restriction, no? I guess the answer to do I need more power? Would be yes. I actually need another 3090, and will get it sooner or later. Even then, I want the performance I paid for and not some artificial limit from evga being lame trying to make sure they sell more KP cards. Really feel like doing it off principle. Huge turn off as a first time evga buyer. I mean really, what is the third 8 pin ever for? When people are pulling over 500 off 2 pin cards with the same bios?
I wonder if evga knows how many customers they loose over this next gen vs how much they gain by forcing the kp limiter. I would have gladly paid an extra 200 for the kp but they never found stock. If I get. Choice it won't be ftw3 or evga at all.
Seems like the comments are from people who've decided against it. I would really value the opinion of someone who has shunted on water and what the results are. If performance scaled well past 500 and total draw vs pcie power.
If people are actually pulling over 500w from 2-pins they're risking setting their system on fire. 2 8 pins are not designed to hold the current required to push 500w (they're designed to max 375 counting PCIe slot power if I'm not mistaken). With 3-pin you can get 525W max safely. Pushing it over that threshold is actually dangerous. My 3080 FTW3 with the XOC Bios does reach 450W every once in a while (4K high settings, OC to 2160mhz core +800 mem). But does not need it at all times to reach the set clock speed at the temps required. I'm more limited by temperature (thanks Nvidia GPU Boost) than Power at the moment. Won't lie, if I waterblock it I would want at least 500W, but I wouldn't want to go over the rated current as I risk burning through my PSU cables and frying and bunch of stuff.
The 8 pin connectors are spec'ed to 150w. That's not the maximum current they can handle. I've run my Zotac 3090 at 450-500w for extended periods of time with no issues. It is water cooled and I have a slot fan that moves air across the block and connectors. Is it the smartest thing long term, probably not. Does it work, yes.
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RafaPorsche
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Re: Is shunting necessary? 3090 ftw3 ultra
2021/04/21 06:13:28
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talon951
The 8 pin connectors are spec'ed to 150w. That's not the maximum current they can handle. I've run my Zotac 3090 at 450-500w for extended periods of time with no issues. It is water cooled and I have a slot fan that moves air across the block and connectors. Is it the smartest thing long term, probably not. Does it work, yes.
Never said it wouldn't work. Just that its a recipe for eventual disaster. What I mean by current is the way wires are made. If it's rated for 150W per 8Pin it means that at 12V it can take 12.5 amps total. Wires and pins are made for the amount of current that passes through them, as that determines the heat it'll generate. That means that 3 8 Pin can handle at Max 450W, add to that 75W you can take from the PCIe slot and it adds up to the 525W rating the 3-8pin cards are rated for. That means that at 12V the Max current it can take is 43.75 amps between the 3 8-pins and PCIe slot. In order to go above 525W, you will have to increase the current, because the 12V are constant in the PSU, meaning you're exceeding the rated current the wires can take, hence, fire or burning can happen (most likely the overcurrent protection of the PSU will kick in before it gets into serious trouble though), the only other way to achieve that is by increasing the voltage but to my knowledge that's not possible with the PSU, which is why people shunt-mod to increase current. Like everything the components are overbuilt just a bit and that's why they can take the extra current, but it is by no means safe over a sustained period of time, that's the reason the warranty is void when you do that.
post edited by RafaPorsche - 2021/04/21 06:15:20
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talon951
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Re: Is shunting necessary? 3090 ftw3 ultra
2021/04/21 07:02:07
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Max current for an 18 gauge wire is about 10 amps.
You have a total of 6 wires on 2 plugs (3 each). So that's something like,
(450w/12)/6 = 6.25 amp/wire
Assuming about 450w for the 8 pin connectors.
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RafaPorsche
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Re: Is shunting necessary? 3090 ftw3 ultra
2021/04/21 08:42:36
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The max current on a wire will depend on the length. It is not universal. An 18 gauge wire may be used for higher currents if it's short and it won't be enough if it's too long.
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glocked89
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Re: Is shunting necessary? 3090 ftw3 ultra
2021/04/21 12:38:10
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bmgjet Just flash the 1000W bios and you dont need to shunt mod it. But any way the real question should be do you need more power. 3090 scales really well with power up until 520W. Then it starts slowing down but you still get gains all the way up to 600W if you can cool it. Those 10,496 cuda cores love to be feed power.
This. The 3090 is so power limited it's crazy. Definitely diminishing returns after 500w but I consider the 3090 a 600w card haha. A travesty some vbios keep them at 300w
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bmgjet
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Re: Is shunting necessary? 3090 ftw3 ultra
2021/04/21 22:52:58
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PCI-E cables are way under speced on there raitings. Which is the minimum ammount of power the cable should be able to supply, Not the maximum. You have the EPS cable which is the same wires and plug just keyed differently, its raited to 225W. Or you have the SPS cable on servers which is the same cable again just keyed differently and its raited to 350W.
You risk blowing the fuses on EVGA 2 plug cards before the cables would give you issue. Well unless you got some aliexpress super chinese power supply with like 28 gage wires. But I doubt something as chinese as that would even be able to run a 3090 with out crashing to start with.
Gamers Nexsus recently did a video on PSU cables which will put any ones mind a ease. He had 500W going though a single wire off molex to pci adapters before it failed.
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Clovis559
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Re: Is shunting necessary? 3090 ftw3 ultra
2021/04/22 00:15:23
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I'm sure it's safe to say, if your asking about the necessity of Shunting, you probably should not be shunting. It's in that basket.
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Net30
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Re: Is shunting necessary? 3090 ftw3 ultra
2021/04/22 11:55:39
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Thought the rebar kp bios was out and posted no?
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talon951
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Re: Is shunting necessary? 3090 ftw3 ultra
2021/04/22 15:27:06
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If it is please point me to it! (KP reBar). It's available to KP owners but AFAIK has not been leaked.
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Net30
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Re: Is shunting necessary? 3090 ftw3 ultra
2021/04/23 08:24:22
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This is such a cluster. Having to search though the 1000 page threads mostly filled with post related to rma questions, to once every few pages find info about power mod. Then have to piece it together from different pages going 6 months back. Figure someone would have put it in one place. As I still can't find out reliably what works or not.
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SleepyEs
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Re: Is shunting necessary? 3090 ftw3 ultra
2021/05/09 12:27:05
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ull wear out your card faster by doing this
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Geomaster44
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Re: Is shunting necessary? 3090 ftw3 ultra
2021/06/08 11:48:51
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