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Hot!Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not?

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xrb936
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2020/12/17 06:05:54 (permalink)
I am just curious, is the chip in 3090 KINGPIN binned or not?
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    nycx360
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    Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not? 2020/12/17 06:17:33 (permalink)
    I've gotten/had 7 3090s. From FE to FTW3 TO STRIX and now the KPE.  Granted I haven't tested my blocked 3090 strix yet, but so far seems like it.  Doesn't really mean much outside of benchmarks though. Games we still looking at the 1-5 fps difference (90% of the time) between an oced 80 vs oced 90. 
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    xrb936
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    Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not? 2020/12/17 06:59:59 (permalink)
    nycx360
    I've gotten/had 7 3090s. From FE to FTW3 TO STRIX and now the KPE.  Granted I haven't tested my blocked 3090 strix yet, but so far seems like it.  Doesn't really mean much outside of benchmarks though. Games we still looking at the 1-5 fps difference (90% of the time) between an oced 80 vs oced 90. 


    Good. What’s your best result on your stock KPE?
    #3
    simplyphp
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    Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not? 2020/12/17 07:00:43 (permalink)
    nycx360
    I've gotten/had 7 3090s. From FE to FTW3 TO STRIX and now the KPE.  Granted I haven't tested my blocked 3090 strix yet, but so far seems like it.  Doesn't really mean much outside of benchmarks though. Games we still looking at the 1-5 fps difference (90% of the time) between an oced 80 vs oced 90. 




    That's what is crazy to me, how good the 3080 are and how little difference for the money there really is to a 3090. Appreciate your effort getting 7 3090s, that's impressive!
    #4
    Dabadger84
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    Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not? 2020/12/17 07:01:32 (permalink)
    The Kingpin GPUs are supposed to be the most binned dies there are, maybe the only thing close to them would be a Galax HOF card. 

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    USMC1419
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    Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not? 2020/12/17 07:05:15 (permalink)
    nycx360
    I've gotten/had 7 3090s. From FE to FTW3 TO STRIX and now the KPE.  Granted I haven't tested my blocked 3090 strix yet, but so far seems like it.  Doesn't really mean much outside of benchmarks though. Games we still looking at the 1-5 fps difference (90% of the time) between an oced 80 vs oced 90. 




    So are you saying from a gaming perspective, going from a FTW3 Ultra Hybrid to a KPE is not worth it? I mostly game at 1440p and VR with a Reverb G2 (2160x2160 per eye, so x2 of those screens).
     
    I'm getting hung up on the "board power draw" dilemma, and how the XOC/Stock OC bios seems to suck pretty bad on the FTW3's. The XC3 bios seems better but im still not willing to daily it. I have a very high position on the next KPE batch but IDK if its worth the hassle swapping it for gaming. What do you think?

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    xrb936
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    Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not? 2020/12/17 07:18:33 (permalink)
    USMC1419
    nycx360
    I've gotten/had 7 3090s. From FE to FTW3 TO STRIX and now the KPE.  Granted I haven't tested my blocked 3090 strix yet, but so far seems like it.  Doesn't really mean much outside of benchmarks though. Games we still looking at the 1-5 fps difference (90% of the time) between an oced 80 vs oced 90. 




    So are you saying from a gaming perspective, going from a FTW3 Ultra Hybrid to a KPE is not worth it? I mostly game at 1440p and VR with a Reverb G2 (2160x2160 per eye, so x2 of those screens).
     
    I'm getting hung up on the "board power draw" dilemma, and how the XOC/Stock OC bios seems to suck pretty bad on the FTW3's. The XC3 bios seems better but im still not willing to daily it. I have a very high position on the next KPE batch but IDK if its worth the hassle swapping it for gaming. What do you think?


    From what I have seen in last 24 hours, some users reported their KPE didn’t impress them. I doubt KPE can really help for gaming, but I still want to know what’s going on with overclock performance.
    #7
    DrunkenDemon
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    Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not? 2020/12/17 07:22:37 (permalink)
    I'm not fairly versed on KPE cards so please forgive my ignorance but wouldn't the power limits of the chip still play a role in overclocking the card? Even with a good bin the limits would still exist in the chip right? 
    #8
    xrb936
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    Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not? 2020/12/17 07:25:02 (permalink)
    DrunkenDemon
    I'm not fairly versed on KPE cards so please forgive my ignorance but wouldn't the power limits of the chip still play a role in overclocking the card? Even with a good bin the limits would still exist in the chip right? 


    Binned chip could hit higher clock with lower voltage and heat. Which means it can hit higher clock with the same power compared to other regular chips.
    #9
    Stickboy46
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    Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not? 2020/12/17 07:27:28 (permalink)
    So far I've run a 3080 FTW3 Ultra, 3090 FTW3 Ultra, and 3090 Kingpin
     
    In general, the 10% pricing difference from the 3090 FTW3 Ultra to the Kingpin is worth it.  I saw ~10% performance increase for 10% increase in cost.
     
    From 3080 FTW3 Ultra to 3090 FTW3 Ultra you see maybe a 20% increase in performance for over double the cost.
     
    So if you are dead set on getting a 3090, the Kingpin is the one to get IMO ... but frankly at least for games right now, there isn't any reason to get a 3090 over a 3080 if you are looking for value.  Me personally, i just wanted the best and am rolling the dice the 24gb of vram will come in handy over the 10gb.  So I'm keeping the Kingpin and moving the 3090 FTW3 Ultra to my wifes PC then selling the 3080 FTW3 Ultra.  

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    USMC1419
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    Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not? 2020/12/17 07:30:33 (permalink)
    Even with the lower temps, my FTW3 Ultra HYBRID still throttles and pulls clock speed when its 45-55C. I don't get it, the card is plenty cool. It didn't do this with XC3 BIOS. 
     
    It should be capable of 2000+ mhz sustained under load with those temps easily but it wont do it during benching on XOC or Stock OC.

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    xrb936
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    Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not? 2020/12/17 07:32:36 (permalink)
    Stickboy46
    So far I've run a 3080 FTW3 Ultra, 3090 FTW3 Ultra, and 3090 Kingpin
     
    In general, the 10% pricing difference from the 3090 FTW3 Ultra to the Kingpin is worth it.  I saw ~10% performance increase for 10% increase in cost.
     
    From 3080 FTW3 Ultra to 3090 FTW3 Ultra you see maybe a 20% increase in performance for over double the cost.
     
    So if you are dead set on getting a 3090, the Kingpin is the one to get IMO ... but frankly at least for games right now, there isn't any reason to get a 3090 over a 3080 if you are looking for value.  Me personally, i just wanted the best and am rolling the dice the 24gb of vram will come in handy over the 10gb.  So I'm keeping the Kingpin and moving the 3090 FTW3 Ultra to my wifes PC then selling the 3080 FTW3 Ultra.  


    Did you overclock your KPE?
    #12
    DrunkenDemon
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    Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not? 2020/12/17 07:33:28 (permalink)
    xrb936
    DrunkenDemon
    I'm not fairly versed on KPE cards so please forgive my ignorance but wouldn't the power limits of the chip still play a role in overclocking the card? Even with a good bin the limits would still exist in the chip right? 


    Binned chip could hit higher clock with lower voltage and heat. Which means it can hit higher clock with the same power compared to other regular chips.

    I realize that but good cooling like a water block could accomplish that as well right? Because the KPE is the same chip as a 3090 I would assume the AIO/hybrid water cooling plays a big role in the higher clocks. The KPE also gives you the screen, the cooler itself, resale value and the BIOS switching so of course there is good value in it but I wouldn't just buy it because it is "binned" or potential overclock.   
    #13
    xrb936
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    Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not? 2020/12/17 07:36:22 (permalink)
    DrunkenDemon
    xrb936
    DrunkenDemon
    I'm not fairly versed on KPE cards so please forgive my ignorance but wouldn't the power limits of the chip still play a role in overclocking the card? Even with a good bin the limits would still exist in the chip right? 


    Binned chip could hit higher clock with lower voltage and heat. Which means it can hit higher clock with the same power compared to other regular chips.

    I realize that but good cooling like a water block could accomplish that as well right? Because the KPE is the same chip as a 3090 I would assume the AIO/hybrid water cooling plays a big role in the higher clocks. The KPE also gives you the screen, the cooler itself, resale value and the BIOS switching so of course there is good value in it but I wouldn't just buy it because it is "binned" or potential overclock.   


    Water block can help. Binned chip+water could do much better.
    #14
    Stickboy46
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    Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not? 2020/12/17 07:40:57 (permalink)
    xrb936
    Stickboy46
    So far I've run a 3080 FTW3 Ultra, 3090 FTW3 Ultra, and 3090 Kingpin
     
    In general, the 10% pricing difference from the 3090 FTW3 Ultra to the Kingpin is worth it.  I saw ~10% performance increase for 10% increase in cost.
     
    From 3080 FTW3 Ultra to 3090 FTW3 Ultra you see maybe a 20% increase in performance for over double the cost.
     
    So if you are dead set on getting a 3090, the Kingpin is the one to get IMO ... but frankly at least for games right now, there isn't any reason to get a 3090 over a 3080 if you are looking for value.  Me personally, i just wanted the best and am rolling the dice the 24gb of vram will come in handy over the 10gb.  So I'm keeping the Kingpin and moving the 3090 FTW3 Ultra to my wifes PC then selling the 3080 FTW3 Ultra.  


    Did you overclock your KPE?

    Yes .. all of my comparisons there are based on Overclocked (i overclocked the 3080 ftw3, 3090 ftw3, and Kingping).  When i say overclocked .. i'm not an experienced person in that, so it's limited to setting it to the top bios (LN2 or OC depending on card), going into X1 and maxing power/temp, then moving the memory and core up until it crashes in PR.  For the 3090FTW3 vs Kingping, my PR clocks were ~ 2000 for FTW3 and ~2160 for Kingpin ... but the kingpin clock was way more stable.  It basically locked in and ran.  
     
    A more experienced person can get way more out of the Kingpin I'm sure by messing with all the switches.  I'm primarily a gamer so I just am looking to for solid and stable.  

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    #15
    thegreattonge
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    Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not? 2020/12/17 08:15:57 (permalink)
    xrb936
    USMC1419
    nycx360
    I've gotten/had 7 3090s. From FE to FTW3 TO STRIX and now the KPE.  Granted I haven't tested my blocked 3090 strix yet, but so far seems like it.  Doesn't really mean much outside of benchmarks though. Games we still looking at the 1-5 fps difference (90% of the time) between an oced 80 vs oced 90. 




    So are you saying from a gaming perspective, going from a FTW3 Ultra Hybrid to a KPE is not worth it? I mostly game at 1440p and VR with a Reverb G2 (2160x2160 per eye, so x2 of those screens).
     
    I'm getting hung up on the "board power draw" dilemma, and how the XOC/Stock OC bios seems to suck pretty bad on the FTW3's. The XC3 bios seems better but im still not willing to daily it. I have a very high position on the next KPE batch but IDK if its worth the hassle swapping it for gaming. What do you think?


    From what I have seen in last 24 hours, some users reported their KPE didn’t impress them. I doubt KPE can really help for gaming, but I still want to know what’s going on with overclock performance.



    FWIW, I haven't seen a single post from someone who actually owns a KPE saying it didn't impress them...just folks on the sideline (meaning not owning a 3090 KPE) running their mouths. 
    #16
    Cadillac94pimpin
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    Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not? 2020/12/17 08:19:28 (permalink)
    If you win the silicon lottery on any card, that card can perform very similarly to any other higher end card including the KPE. What would be holding the lower end cards back is temp, power limit or voltage limit/lack of voltage control and you could throw VRM phases in there as well. Those 3 things can be overcome by a better a cooling solution, SHUNT resistor mod and or a higher power limit VBIOS or unlocked VBIOS and an Elmor EVC for voltage control. 2 of those things require hard mods plus some sort of cooling solution. 
    As far as binning, it has the highest advertised boost clock of any 3090. AFAIK, that is the extent of the binning process. Pretty sure all cards exceed that boost clock, but the KPE does seem to reach some pretty decent clock speeds if all the other fine tuning is done while keeping temps in check. It also seems to respond very well to a memory overclock compared to other cards. You are also paying for a fully custom PCB. 
     
    The point of the KPE is the higher power limit via the VBIOS and the possible availability of the 1000w XOC VBIOS, better power delivery and the ability to change voltage and do some other finer tuning with software (classified tool). The classified tool cannot be used on any other card. 
     
    In a strictly gaming scenario, I really don't think the performance increase is scalable, an X% increase in PR score does not normally translate into an X% FPS increase.
    Most people who buy a Kingpin are going after benchmark scores and or E-PEEN lol. Is it worth it over the 3090 FTW3 Ultra? I think it most definitely is. Is it worth it over a Strix? That can be argued but I think so. Is it worth it over any other card, that would depend on use case, budget and goals. If you just want to game, probably not. 
     
    Now I'm not very experienced and maybe someone who actually knows what they are talking about can chime in. But this is how I understand it.
    post edited by Cadillac94pimpin - 2020/12/17 08:23:14

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    #17
    xrb936
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    Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not? 2020/12/17 08:21:26 (permalink)
    thegreattonge
    xrb936
    USMC1419
    nycx360
    I've gotten/had 7 3090s. From FE to FTW3 TO STRIX and now the KPE.  Granted I haven't tested my blocked 3090 strix yet, but so far seems like it.  Doesn't really mean much outside of benchmarks though. Games we still looking at the 1-5 fps difference (90% of the time) between an oced 80 vs oced 90. 




    So are you saying from a gaming perspective, going from a FTW3 Ultra Hybrid to a KPE is not worth it? I mostly game at 1440p and VR with a Reverb G2 (2160x2160 per eye, so x2 of those screens).

    I'm getting hung up on the "board power draw" dilemma, and how the XOC/Stock OC bios seems to suck pretty bad on the FTW3's. The XC3 bios seems better but im still not willing to daily it. I have a very high position on the next KPE batch but IDK if its worth the hassle swapping it for gaming. What do you think?


    From what I have seen in last 24 hours, some users reported their KPE didn’t impress them. I doubt KPE can really help for gaming, but I still want to know what’s going on with overclock performance.



    FWIW, I haven't seen a single post from someone who actually owns a KPE saying it didn't impress them...just folks on the sideline (meaning not owning a 3090 KPE) running their mouths. 


    That’s because you didn’t check the right place. Try overclock.net and some discord channels. You are not getting anything useful here. I have watched this forum since 3090 released, no one single post is what I want to read, neither overclocking performance nor cards comparison. For me, it’s only for preorder discussion and checking failure reports.
    #18
    xrb936
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    Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not? 2020/12/17 08:24:56 (permalink)
    Cadillac94pimpin
    If you win the silicon lottery on any card, that card can perform very similarly to any other higher end card including the KPE. What would be holding the lower end cards back is temp, power limit or voltage limit/lack of voltage control and you could throw VRM phases in there as well. Those 3 things can be overcome by a better a cooling solution, SHUNT resistor mod and or a higher power limit VBIOS or unlocked VBIOS and an Elmor EVC for voltage control. 2 of those things require hard mods plus some sort of cooling solution. 
    As far as binning, it has the highest advertised boost clock of any 3090. AFAIK, that is the extent of the binning process. Pretty sure all cards exceed that boost clock, but the KPE does seem to reach some pretty decent clock speeds if all the other fine tuning is done while keeping temps in check. It also seems to respond very well to a memory overclock compared to other cards. You are also paying for a fully custom PCB. 
     
    The point of the KPE is the higher power limit via the VBIOS and the possible availability of the 1000w XOC VBIOS, better power delivery and the ability to change voltage and do some other finer tuning with software (classified tool). The classified tool cannot be used on any other card. 
     
    In a strictly gaming scenario, I really don't think the performance increase is scalable, an X% increase in PR score does not normally translate into an X% FPS increase.
    Most people who buy a Kingpin are going after benchmark scores and or E-PEEN lol. Is it worth it over the 3090 FTW3 Ultra? I think it most definitely is. Is it worth it over a Strix? That can be argued but I think so. Is it worth it over any other card, that would depend on use case, budget and goals. If you just want to game, probably not. 
     
    Now I'm not very experienced and maybe someone who actually knows what they are talking about can chime in. But this is how I understand it.


    Compared to what EVGA did for 20 series and 10 series, they did an awful job for 30 series. I got 2 failure 3090 FTW3 Ultra in last month, I am not sure if KINGPIN is worth another try.
    #19
    Cadillac94pimpin
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    Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not? 2020/12/17 08:33:43 (permalink)
    @Xrb936 That is clearly evident, and I would expect EVGA to come forward and say something. Their silence does have a lot of people including myself pretty concerned. With that being said, my KPE is on the way. So far, no KPE's have failed... Yet...Not enough out there to know if they are affected or not, but seeing as they have a fully custom PCB, I would think one would be better off with a Kingpin until they fix whatever is going on with the other cards in the lineup. They need to recover from this ASAP. 

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    #20
    xrb936
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    Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not? 2020/12/17 08:35:31 (permalink)
    Cadillac94pimpin
    @Xrb936 That is clearly evident, and I would expect EVGA to come forward and say something. Their silence does have a lot of people including myself pretty concerned. With that being said, my KPE is on the way. So far, no KPE's have failed... Yet...Not enough out there to know if they are affected or not, but seeing as they have a fully custom PCB, I would think one would be better off with a Kingpin until they fix whatever is going on with the other cards in the lineup. They need to recover from this ASAP. 


    I just saw one KPE had no output/black screen here in this forum. Lol.
    #21
    streamroller
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    Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not? 2020/12/17 09:02:45 (permalink)
    No it is not. Binned chips are A0 ones but KPE is A1 too. Observing the Kp's here they struggle to reach 2175mhz. This is not a good sign regarding binning.
     
    Binned cards or lottery cards can do easy 2200mhz

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    #22
    xrb936
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    Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not? 2020/12/17 09:05:02 (permalink)
    streamroller
    No it is not. Binned chips are A0 ones but KPE is A1 too. Observing the Kp's here they struggle to reach 2175mhz. This is not a good sign regarding binning.
     
    Binned cards or lottery cards can do easy 2200mhz


    That’s why I asked. I saw some Kingpins overclocking result and didn’t feel good about it. Looks like the Kingpin edition is no longer that “Kingpin”.

    The very first batch of Strix 3090 can easily do 2200mhz under air. That’s the real binned chip.
    #23
    LVNeptune
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    Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not? 2020/12/17 09:17:49 (permalink)
    Vince emailed a friend and said they were binned. If they aren't, this is seriously false advertising. Mine arrives today.
    #24
    xrb936
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    Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not? 2020/12/17 09:20:09 (permalink)
    LVNeptune
    Vince emailed a friend and said they were binned. If they aren't, this is seriously false advertising. Mine arrives today.

    Congratulations. Please update us with your overclocking result, if you are going to do so.
    #25
    kris1111
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    Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not? 2020/12/17 09:20:59 (permalink)
    I can only confirm that my Kingpin can't reach 2175mhz. On top of that, memory on my FTW3 Ultra could go to 1400, on the Kingpin, I hit a wall at 1100.  Very disappointed with this card. Don't waste your money with this gen of KP cards guys
    #26
    xrb936
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    Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not? 2020/12/17 09:22:47 (permalink)
    kris1111
    I can only confirm that my Kingpin can't reach 2175mhz. On top of that, memory on my FTW3 Ultra could go to 1400, on the Kingpin, I hit a wall at 1100.  Very disappointed with this card. Don't waste your money with this gen of KP cards guys

    Ouch, that is worse than my Strix and FTW3 Ultra... Did you use curve, or just offset?
    #27
    SoldierRBT
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    Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not? 2020/12/17 09:22:52 (permalink)
    kris1111
    I can only confirm that my Kingpin can't reach 2175mhz. On top of that, memory on my FTW3 Ultra could go to 1400, on the Kingpin, I hit a wall at 1100.  Very disappointed with this card. Don't waste your money with this gen of KP cards guys


    Have you tried adding voltage to the memory? Does it still hit a wall at +1100?
    #28
    alexaqui
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    Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not? 2020/12/17 09:26:15 (permalink)
    For the higher overclocks, what kind of power levels are required to get there?  My out of the box FE is doing 1965mhz steady with 0 tweaking.  I'm wondering if the KP is a worthy upgrade (I'm keeping the FE regardless) based on this discussion.
    #29
    xrb936
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    Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not? 2020/12/17 09:28:40 (permalink)
    alexaqui
    For the higher overclocks, what kind of power levels are required to get there?  My out of the box FE is doing 1965mhz steady with 0 tweaking.  I'm wondering if the KP is a worthy upgrade (I'm keeping the FE regardless) based on this discussion.

    No. It’s not worth it if you have a 3090 already. Whatever brand it is.
    #30
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