drewski989
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Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not?
2021/01/21 10:13:57
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My K|NGP|N on FL air can pass 15K in Port Royal pretty easily. I think there is more in the tank, I just can't get stuff cold enough to get higher and I dont think AMD cpu/mb is helping me much (or possibly ASUS BIOS). I can sustain 2,200+ MHz in PR pretty easily. Maybe I got lucky with the card, but I would hope this is the minimum typical performance for this card. Here's my best run on a rare cold morning for reference (Christmas morning actually lol) https://www.3dmark.com/pr/689520.
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xxDarkxx
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Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not?
2021/01/21 11:31:49
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it's not the minimum typical performance unfortunately
However many are able to score 15k. I would say a plurality are right around that number
with a good chunk being able to do 15.2-15.5k. and a small minority doing 15.5-15.7k
not quite what i hoped for when hearing of the KP but still better than the rest
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drewski989
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Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not?
2021/01/21 11:49:05
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xxDarkxx
it's not the minimum typical performance unfortunately
However many are able to score 15k. I would say a plurality are right around that number
with a good chunk being able to do 15.2-15.5k. and a small minority doing 15.5-15.7k
not quite what i hoped for when hearing of the KP but still better than the rest
Yeah that's really what I would hope to expect out of the KP, at least ~15200-15300. I wish I would have kept my Intel stuff, my scores in PR changed ~250-300 points between 2 different x570 ASUS motherboard BIOS versions. I think that factors in for whatever reason, but here's hoping a BIOS update magically gives me the 250 points back.
post edited by drewski989 - 2021/01/21 11:56:36
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Xero717
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Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not?
2021/01/21 13:02:32
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xxDarkxx
has anyone with a kpe card even beat my ftw3 score for that matter? And when i say beat i mean above freezing not some exotic cooling solution
https://www.3dmark.com/pr/736189
this might put things into perspective regarding kpe bin
What kind of cooling are you using on that thing to keep it at 16c?
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sorti
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Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not?
2021/01/21 15:15:50
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Xero717
xxDarkxx
has anyone with a kpe card even beat my ftw3 score for that matter? And when i say beat i mean above freezing not some exotic cooling solution
this might put things into perspective regarding kpe bin
What kind of cooling are you using on that thing to keep it at 16c?
yeah, the cooling on this run probably has more to do with the score than any binning. My guess is that he dropped his radiator in a bucket of ice water, or had his PC outside on a freezing night. ;)
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kooncey
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Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not?
2021/01/21 15:47:39
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sorti
Xero717
xxDarkxx
has anyone with a kpe card even beat my ftw3 score for that matter? And when i say beat i mean above freezing not some exotic cooling solution
this might put things into perspective regarding kpe bin
What kind of cooling are you using on that thing to keep it at 16c?
yeah, the cooling on this run probably has more to do with the score than any binning.
My guess is that he dropped his radiator in a bucket of ice water, or had his PC outside on a freezing night. ;)
My kingpin card has beaten your score in terms of this matter on this discussion ( not a bragging post) I simply used the cold outside air to do it, I was surprised I was able to get a 1900 memory overclock to pass with just cold air. https://www.3dmark.com/pr/711390
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gridironcpj
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Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not?
2021/01/21 17:46:25
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I don't think EVGA has claimed the RTX 3090 Kingpin cards are binned. It's unlikely they are, especially since binning is a major selling point and EVGA would be inclined to advertise it if they put in the effort to bin these cards.
GPU: RTX 3090 KINGPIN | CPU: R9 5950X 4.7GHz @ 1.21V | Memory: 32GB (2x16GB) 3733MT/s 14-14-14-28 1T | Mobo: Crosshair VIII Dark Hero | Storage: WD SN850 2TB & Samsung 970 Evo Plus 2TB| Primary Display: ROG PG27UQ 4K 144Hz HDR 1000 | Chassis: Phanteks Enthoo Elite | PSU: EVGA 1600 T2
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bmgjet
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Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not?
2021/01/21 18:48:23
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gridironcpj
I don't think EVGA has claimed the RTX 3090 Kingpin cards are binned. It's unlikely they are, especially since binning is a major selling point and EVGA would be inclined to advertise it if they put in the effort to bin these cards.
Leading up to release they kept saying over and over that the dies are "cherry picked" and tested they will do 2100mhz before they are soldered onto the PCB. You can go back though the twitter posts, I would get you a screen shot but for some reason im banned on twitter now lol. Then Vince in the live GN LN2 stream said they take 10 chips at random from a batch of 100 when they come in. Test those 10 on the bench testing machine and use the best chip out of that 10 and the other 9 go back into being FTW3's
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gridironcpj
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Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not?
2021/01/21 20:22:05
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bmgjet
gridironcpj
I don't think EVGA has claimed the RTX 3090 Kingpin cards are binned. It's unlikely they are, especially since binning is a major selling point and EVGA would be inclined to advertise it if they put in the effort to bin these cards.
Leading up to release they kept saying over and over that the dies are "cherry picked" and tested they will do 2100mhz before they are soldered onto the PCB.
You can go back though the twitter posts, I would get you a screen shot but for some reason im banned on twitter now lol.
Then Vince in the live GN LN2 stream said they take 10 chips at random from a batch of 100 when they come in.
Test those 10 on the bench testing machine and use the best chip out of that 10 and the other 9 go back into being FTW3's
Thanks for the correction. I was unaware of these claims.
GPU: RTX 3090 KINGPIN | CPU: R9 5950X 4.7GHz @ 1.21V | Memory: 32GB (2x16GB) 3733MT/s 14-14-14-28 1T | Mobo: Crosshair VIII Dark Hero | Storage: WD SN850 2TB & Samsung 970 Evo Plus 2TB| Primary Display: ROG PG27UQ 4K 144Hz HDR 1000 | Chassis: Phanteks Enthoo Elite | PSU: EVGA 1600 T2
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SoldierRBT
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Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not?
2021/01/21 21:44:27
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It would be great if they explain the binning process. I also read somewhere that KPE are binned to 2100MHz+ but they didn't specify under what conditions (voltage, type of load, temperature). On the memory side, 2080 Ti KPEs were binned for 8000MHz+ which was +1000. They specifically chose Samsung chips for better OC. I wonder if Micron chips are binned too this generation. In my experience with my KPE and the ones I've seen on internet, you get a good silicon that's able to break 15K+ in PR (considering you have good CPU and memory OC) which isn't an easy task for most 3090s. I haven't seen any 3090 been able to get 15K under 1.0v. My KPE does that with just 0.943v locked at 2130MHz 48C 420W max on ambient temp. https://www.3dmark.com/pr/713117 https://i.imgur.com/vUyqzQU.jpg
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Sn8ke_iis
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Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not?
2021/01/22 05:40:08
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TiN when talking about the 2080 Ti gen, said not to get too fixated on the clock speed of the GPU and memory. I think it may have been on xdevs.com
But to look at the results and benchmark scores.
The chips could be better quality in terms of number of CUDA cores and how well they crunch numbers for a given amount of electricity.
I would agree that there haven't been enough chips of this gen to properly bin relative to previous generations.
They do advertise K|NGP|Ns with the highest boost clocks and texture fill rate. The next highest are the FTW Hybrids. No other AIB partner for Nvidia does that as far as I am aware.
As far as real world gaming performance, you probably are just better off getting a FTW and using the higher power BIOS. Get it under a good waterblock, even better. That will probably get you 90-95% of the way there. Kingpins are sold with lots of extra bells and whistles for overclocking that don't necessarilly translate into more frames, just higher benchmark scores. Some games might respond well to VRAM overclocking, especially VR simulation games like DCS. They also keep resale value very well.
Mine is getting here Saturday. I'll post some 3dmark scores. I also like the 4K and 8K Unigine Superposition benchmark. Probably by Monday or Tuesday night. Cheers
Sn8ke_iis
Asus Maximus XI Formula | Intel/Silicon Lottery 9900K @ 5.4 GHz Single Core, 5.2 GHz All Core @1.38v Adaptive | EVGA 3090 K|NGP|N @ ???? MHz | EKWB Direct Die Custom Liquid Cooling Loop | Gskill 32 GB DDR4 @ 3600 MHz | Samsung 512 GB, 1 TB NVMe SSDs | Asus/Seasonic 1200w PSU 
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drewski989
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Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not?
2021/01/22 05:50:33
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Based on my temps (38C), average clock speed (2221), and memory speeds (1375) on my best PR run, I would very much expect that to translate into more than 15038. I am convinced it is the other parts of my system that are preventing better scores. I have the 5900X and the Crosshair VIII Hero, I have talked to others who noticed substantial drop-offs of points when "upgrading" to zen 3 from Intel. I personally lost nearly 300 points in PR going from one bios version to another.
I need to get an Intel rig to see if my KP can do better, I very much believe it can.
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rsaylors
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Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not?
2021/01/22 08:56:21
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xxDarkxx
it's not the minimum typical performance unfortunately
However many are able to score 15k. I would say a plurality are right around that number
with a good chunk being able to do 15.2-15.5k. and a small minority doing 15.5-15.7k
not quite what i hoped for when hearing of the KP but still better than the rest
On air I've got +139core +893mem and I'm getting 14750 on a 3800x
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Dyezak
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Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not?
2021/01/22 09:30:26
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xxDarkxx
they dont have a good supply of cards to actually bin. thats part of the problem and something that vince actually referenced to in that email. If they were actually testing batches of 1000 cards and taking the top 10%, THEN it would be a proper bin. As it stands, the binning standard is quite low
In the end the 10% premium is worth it. If it was something like $2,500 then heck no but they put a relatively small premium on the card
Evga has the FTW locked down well. The 70w difference in bios does make up most of the difference in the cards.
Even comparing the 500w bios to the 520w bios, you will find something very interesting. The max memory power allowance is actually lower on the 520w bios. Evga probably did this to shift more power availability to the core to make the kpe look better than it is.
If you look at the guys that have shunted their ftw3s or have successfully got the 1000w bios working, you will be disappointed in your kpe card, but the classified tool is really great and makes up a lot for the lack of proper binning
has anyone with a kpe card even beat my ftw3 score for that matter? And when i say beat i mean above freezing not some exotic cooling solution
https://www.3dmark.com/pr/736189
this might put things into perspective regarding kpe bin
Common man, at least be fair when you are humble bragging. Nobody is maintaining a 16c *average* core over an entire Port Royal run with a non-exotic cooling solution. So you have something going on (ice water, outdoor PC during winter, etc) outside the norm but are asking if anyone can beat you with a normal cooling solution. Really buddy?
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drewski989
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Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not?
2021/01/22 09:37:23
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Dyezak
Common man, at least be fair when you are humble bragging. Nobody is maintaining a 16c *average* core over an entire Port Royal run with a non-exotic cooling solution. So you have something going on (ice water, outdoor PC during winter, etc) outside the norm but are asking if anyone can beat you with a normal cooling solution.
Really buddy?
Read my mind... 16C average on air, that's some frigid air, it being that cold is exotic in itself.
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xxDarkxx
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Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not?
2021/01/23 09:19:02
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thats with +900 memory. my memory bin sucks. cut me some slack here. With optimus block i get 31c at ambient I can still score over 15,600 repeatedly...completely ambient with a very low (relatively) memory offset and no kind of voltage control or classified tool like you guys you have to admit it's an incredible bin on the core in fact there is only 1 single score with 16k that isnt exotic cooling aka "below zero" and showing as "n/a" under temp which was produced by tech lab china move this core over to a kingpin with some voltage control and give me toastys +1900 memory and suddenly you will see 16,200 in port royal. don't act jelly as if 16c is suddenly -50c Here is at 24c which is 7c colder than a bone stock ambient run. still over 15.7k https://www.3dmark.com/pr/717954 THAT is the type of bin i would pay big bucks for on a kingpin. Give me that and i would be willing to pay $3,000 for such a card
post edited by xxDarkxx - 2021/01/23 09:28:18
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enkrypt3d
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Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not?
2021/01/23 09:35:21
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nycx360
I've gotten/had 7 3090s. From FE to FTW3 TO STRIX and now the KPE. Granted I haven't tested my blocked 3090 strix yet, but so far seems like it. Doesn't really mean much outside of benchmarks though. Games we still looking at the 1-5 fps difference (90% of the time) between an oced 80 vs oced 90.
why have you gone thru 7 cards? smh
AMD 5950X CPU Corsair H150i 360mm AIO EVGA 3090 FTW3 Ultra MSI X570 Prestige Creation 32GB DDR4-3600Mhz G.skill Neo Trident 4 x 2TB Samsung EVO 970 Plus in RAID0 EVGA SuperNova 1300W G2 PSU
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SoldierRBT
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Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not?
2021/01/23 11:25:38
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We won't see 16k or close to that yet on the 3090 KPE because there isn't a waterblock available. The best I can do with 48C avg temp and 52C max was 15,710. 2280MHz peak 2228Mhz avg +1250 memory. With 2265MHz avg and +1250 mem it should score around 16k but for that It'll need to be under 35C. https://www.3dmark.com/pr/692652
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USMC1419
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Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not?
2021/01/23 11:29:02
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SoldierRBT
We won't see 16k or close to that yet on the 3090 KPE because there isn't a waterblock available. The best I can do with 48C avg temp and 52C max was 15,710. 2280MHz peak 2228Mhz avg +1250 memory. With 2265MHz avg and +1250 mem it should score around 16k but for that It'll need to be under 35C.
https://www.3dmark.com/pr/692652
Those are some tasty clock speeds on GPU core. I couldn't mange much more than 2,170 sustained and pulled 15,308. Your temps aren't that cool either, which is even more impressive. Classified settings?
12900k @ 5.2 W/Optimus Sig V2 64GB DDR5 @ 5000 RTX 3090 K|NGP|N W/ Optimus WB EVGA 1200w Supernova G2 Sammy 980 Pro 2Tb Predator 27" 1440p G-Sync IPS 165 hz Resident "wise guy"
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SoldierRBT
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Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not?
2021/01/23 13:08:32
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USMC1419
SoldierRBT
We won't see 16k or close to that yet on the 3090 KPE because there isn't a waterblock available. The best I can do with 48C avg temp and 52C max was 15,710. 2280MHz peak 2228Mhz avg +1250 memory. With 2265MHz avg and +1250 mem it should score around 16k but for that It'll need to be under 35C.
https://www.3dmark.com/pr/692652
Those are some tasty clock speeds on GPU core. I couldn't mange much more than 2,170 sustained and pulled 15,308. Your temps aren't that cool either, which is even more impressive.
Classified settings?
I don't remember the exact number but I believe it was around 1.225v NVVDD 1.15v MSVVDD for that run and around 600W power draw. The advantage that KPE has over the others 3090 is the classified tool. With these voltages you can increase the internal clocks to boost your score but keep in mind adding more than the core needs won't magically make it better (it just adds unnecessary heat and could potentially lower your avg core clocks). It'll still be limited by the silicon and what it can do with max voltage which is 1.10v. Every card is different and you need to test yours and see how much NVVDD it needs to be efficient (match internal clocks with the requested clocks/MSI afterburner number). If you're using the 520W bios, lock the voltage to 1.025-1.043v and download Thermspy and run Port Royal in window mode and check internal clocks. Then open classified tool and add enough voltage to make it efficient. Always check power draw and don't get too close to 520W because internal clocks would drop 15mhz for a few seconds (GPU-Z won't detect it as PWR limit) and It would affect the overall score. Also, every voltage point on the v/f curve needs a different NVVDD/MSVVDD combination. Good luck. More information for KPE owners. Breaking 15K in PR you'll need Intel i9 + High memory frequency. Tested this 10900K stock vs 5.3GHz + 4500MHz RAM was around 150-200 extra score. When you have internal clocks matching requested clocks: 2100MHz avg is enough to get 15K. 2160MHz avg gives 15,4K and 2200MHz avg around 15,5K. Memory OC is very important for high avg core clocks, seems like the core needs bandwidth to scale. +1000 is enough below 2200MHz avg clocks but If you have higher than this, the more memory OC you add, it'll score higher.
post edited by SoldierRBT - 2021/01/23 13:17:28
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moonlight123
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Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not?
2021/01/24 08:21:51
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drewski989
My K|NGP|N on FL air can pass 15K in Port Royal pretty easily. I think there is more in the tank, I just can't get stuff cold enough to get higher and I dont think AMD cpu/mb is helping me much (or possibly ASUS BIOS).
I can sustain 2,200+ MHz in PR pretty easily. Maybe I got lucky with the card, but I would hope this is the minimum typical performance for this card.
Here's my best run on a rare cold morning for reference (Christmas morning actually lol) https://www.3dmark.com/pr/689520.
You are lucky. Awesome performance
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HotProtato
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Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not?
2021/01/28 18:44:57
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All I can say is I was rockin a 3090 FTW3 Ultra, but after running (either SkyForge or Guild Wars 2, can't remember), it opened up in fullscreen mode then boom, pc shuts down and would no longer boot with that gpu. No gpu or other gpus would work fine, not even any LEDs or fans spinning so I've pretty much worked it out with my retailer that I'll pay them extra for a kingpin instead, neither of us know how long it'll though :S aside from that, I'm waiting on my 5950x and have been for ages. Stuck with a 3950x til then. It seems as though others have been having similar/ the same issues with the FTW3 Ultra in particular. Apparently there are a few games out there that kill those cards, Halo 2 being one of them supposedly. Main monitor is 4k (lg 27gn950-b), other 2 are just and my psu is a corsair ax1000 titanium (which has surge protection sooo). Considering getting a better motherboard but I was kinda thinking of just waiting it out for amd to release new chipsets next year idfk.
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zerocool101
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Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not?
2021/02/17 07:23:15
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Just got my Kingpin and the highest I can get is 14861 on my card. (170+ GPU/ 1150+ RAM)This is with my AMD 5950x. Wondering now IF I want to hit 15K I will need a Intel i9? Wondering also IF I should be using MSI Afterburn over Precision X1.
post edited by zerocool101 - 2021/02/17 07:25:43
13900KS on Z690 Dark KP FE 4090
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xxDarkxx
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Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not?
2021/02/17 07:57:22
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well, my ftw3 is better than my kingpin.
They are lightly binned but if they were properly binned every kp would smoke my ftw3 with the better build, higher tdp, and classy tool.
TBF I expected such with the small premium in price. Trying my luck again when they release the hydrocopper
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SoldierRBT
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Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not?
2021/02/17 08:20:46
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xxDarkxx
well, my ftw3 is better than my kingpin.
They are lightly binned but if they were properly binned every kp would smoke my ftw3 with the better build, higher tdp, and classy tool.
TBF I expected such with the small premium in price. Trying my luck again when they release the hydrocopper
If you want to bin two cards, I'd recommend to use ATI tool. Set voltage slider to max and test 1.10v voltage point until it crashes. Make sure they both running at the same temp range (28-32C). You should expect anything from 2280-2355MHz stable at around 32C (lower temperature would hold higher frequency). Even if KPE is lower bin it should perform slightly better in benchmarks due to the NVVDD/MSVVDD voltage controller (higher effective clocks). Memory is simple. It doesn't scale much with voltage, from stock 1.375v to 1.40v you should expect an extra +50MHz. Temperature is more important, the lower the better it would hold higher OC.
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xxDarkxx
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Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not?
2021/02/17 10:01:59
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The core is actually pretty good. but the memory overclock was an extreme disappointment. I was crashing port royal with +1200 on the mem so i had to tone it down. Didnt mess with the classy tool or bother with the 1000w bios it's going straight for sale
temps were good. I isolated the card and was satisfied with the temps I was getting. overall it's an above average card but that memory is a deal breaker.
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sorti
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Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not?
2021/02/17 10:23:01
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xxDarkxx
well, my ftw3 is better than my kingpin.
They are lightly binned but if they were properly binned every kp would smoke my ftw3 with the better build, higher tdp, and classy tool.
TBF I expected such with the small premium in price. Trying my luck again when they release the hydrocopper
post the Port Royal scores for your Kingpin compared to your FTW3.
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xxDarkxx
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Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not?
2021/02/17 10:40:34
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https://www.3dmark.com/pr/717954 slight cold. ive scored 15,800+ but i would rather apples to apples https://www.3dmark.com/pr/832549 this is completely ambient  I dont see any kp scores saved to my account. either way it's just not as good. I wasn't necessarily expecting a better core but i was absolutely expecting better memory. I have very average memory on my ftw3 and figured i would make the most gains here. I hear of ppl running 1600+ mem and i was looking for AT LEAST +1300. instead it's the same as my ftw3 so it would always be an uphill battle with this KP
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telehog
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Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not?
2021/02/17 10:41:21
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I have a FTW3 ultra 3090 and a Kingpin and have had both strip down . Kingpin dye does have marking that Ultra does not have. King pin has number in upper left, also had purple dot that came off when i clean card up. Has faint number on dye you can almost make out when the light hits it just right, but can't see in photo.
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famich
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Re: Is 3090 KINGPIN actually binned or not?
2021/02/17 10:43:03
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SoldierRBT
xxDarkxx
well, my ftw3 is better than my kingpin.
They are lightly binned but if they were properly binned every kp would smoke my ftw3 with the better build, higher tdp, and classy tool.
TBF I expected such with the small premium in price. Trying my luck again when they release the hydrocopper
If you want to bin two cards, I'd recommend to use ATI tool. Set voltage slider to max and test 1.10v voltage point until it crashes. Make sure they both running at the same temp range (28-32C). You should expect anything from 2280-2355MHz stable at around 32C (lower temperature would hold higher frequency). Even if KPE is lower bin it should perform slightly better in benchmarks due to the NVVDD/MSVVDD voltage controller (higher effective clocks). Memory is simple. It doesn't scale much with voltage, from stock 1.375v to 1.40v you should expect an extra +50MHz. Temperature is more important, the lower the better it would hold higher OC.
Totally agree, a very nice and handy and quick... apart from that, the best "ordinary" RTX 3090 is ASUS Strix, FTW3 has got a lot of flaws.
INTEL 12900KS at 5700, allcore 5450 GSKILL 4000 DDR32Gb ASUS STRIX Z690 DR4 ASUS RTX 3090 OC STRIX LianLi
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