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Hot!Is 1x 8pin on the X299 Micro enough for Intel's 12core CPU?

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Snipes7
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2017/08/11 13:58:38 (permalink)
If you didn't live under a rock recently you might have noticed that SkylakeX Cpus like the 7900X like to sip a little cup of watts from now an then. I expect the 12-core 7920X to use at least 350watts while stress testing with an overclock in the range of 4.7Ghz watercooled and delidded. So I'm sure you've heard the debate about how much a single 8pin on the motherboard is specified for which is theoretically more or less 288w hence the general recommendation is at least to have 8+4pin on a board.
 
From the pictures I can see the Micro is only providing a single 8pin connector. Up to how many cores/watts can it handle though? I know regular gaming isn't really pulling that many watts, but some professional workloads / benches / stability tests certainly will when under a serious OC. 
 
https://ocaholic.ch/modules/news/article.php?storyid=16800
 
"The system [...] includes an EVGA X299 Micro motherboard, Intel's Core i7-7900X CPU pushed to 5.6 GHz"
 
This source says Kingpin used a Micro board for his 5.6Ghz overclock on a 7900X. But since I have a feeling he modified the board's power delivery system I just want to know how much the Micro's 8pin and it's vrm can handle especially regarding the heatsink on the vrms, which doesn't look extremely beefy to be frank, in stock configuration.
 
Hope to get an official answer.

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    bcavnaugh
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    Re: Is 1x 8pin on the X299 Micro enough for Intel's 12core CPU? 2017/08/11 17:07:20 (permalink)
    Are you going to Water Cool the Micro Motherboard?
    Their is only One K|ngp|n in the World and he is above any standard Overclocker when it comes to overclocking so you cannot think you can do the same. 
    K|ngp|n Also was under LN2 on the X299 Micro and using a Custom BIOS.
     
    https://kingpincooling.com/
     
    http://forum.kingpincooling.com/index.php
     
    http://forum.kingpincooling.com/showthread.php?t=3972 GTX 1080 Ti Overclocking
     
    vCore 1.520v

    post edited by bcavnaugh - 2017/08/11 17:30:35

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    Snipes7
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    Re: Is 1x 8pin on the X299 Micro enough for Intel's 12core CPU? 2017/08/11 18:08:17 (permalink)
    Oh I think you totally missed my point. I don't want to better his score. I just wanted to make a point, that he used the MICRO that comes stock with a single 8pin connector. For his OC he was using as you said 1.52 vcore, that will pull a significant amount of power my guess 550watts - at the same time there are many ppl out there stating that a single 8pin won't be enough not even for a less extreme overclock on water especially when you go beyond 10 cores. Still Vince did his overclock without frying the connector ;) so A: he probably used some modification to the motherboards powerdelivery which leads to B: what can the micro handle with it's stock configuration on a prolonged periode of time without modifications. Is the single 8pin enough for the watts a 12 Cores with a less extreme overclock than ln2 ofc pulls and is the vrm cooling capacity good enough so it won't thottle etc. 
     
    The thing is I'm going to use a mATX board and as it so happens EVGA is currently the only company that announced one for X299. I'm also aiming to get the 7920X and I will overclock it cooled with a Mo-Ra3. I need a decent board so I won't fry my connector or overheat the vrms since it's going to be difficult to get vrm waterblocks for EVGA boards. EK usually only makes them for the bigger motherboard brands and even there not every board gets one of course. But I figure if Vince used the MICRO for his world record it must be decent. But was it decent because he modded it? With all the vrm confusion about overheating, throttleing and the like I wonder if the board is capable enough without soldering a powerboard to it for example.
    post edited by Snipes7 - 2017/08/11 18:18:55

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    arestavo
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    Re: Is 1x 8pin on the X299 Micro enough for Intel's 12core CPU? 2017/08/11 18:51:15 (permalink)
    Stock shouldn't be an issue - but I wouldn't trust it if you want to heavily overclock.

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    Snipes7
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    Re: Is 1x 8pin on the X299 Micro enough for Intel's 12core CPU? 2017/08/11 19:07:18 (permalink)
    Thing is, I kinda need a board that I can trust, when putting that much money for cpu, ram, powersupply, motherboard on the table (those combined 2050€+) ^^ hence my question/concern

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    bcavnaugh
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    Re: Is 1x 8pin on the X299 Micro enough for Intel's 12core CPU? 2017/08/12 13:17:16 (permalink)
    arestavo
    Stock shouldn't be an issue - but I wouldn't trust it if you want to heavily overclock.


    +1
    The X299 Dark is what you should get for heavily overclocking the CPU as that is what is it is build for.
    Snipes7 are you going LN2 on your X299?

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    Sajin
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    Re: Is 1x 8pin on the X299 Micro enough for Intel's 12core CPU? 2017/08/12 14:04:43 (permalink)
    Snipes7
    Up to how many watts can it handle though?

    Good question for evga tech support. The board supports up to 18 cores.


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    Snipes7
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    Re: Is 1x 8pin on the X299 Micro enough for Intel's 12core CPU? 2017/08/12 18:46:25 (permalink)
    bcavnaugh
    arestavo
    Stock shouldn't be an issue - but I wouldn't trust it if you want to heavily overclock.


    +1
    The X299 Dark is what you should get for heavily overclocking the CPU as that is what is it is build for.
    Snipes7 are you going LN2 on your X299?


    I know ppl are all hyped for the dark and I get it, it's dark, it's sexy, but I'm my special kind of cookie I guess who likes his mATX formfactor, so the dark is a no no. No XOC with LN2 either. As I said I'm gonna use the Mo-RA3 a 9x120 radiator from watercool which has admittedly some decent capacity. So I'd be shooting for 4.9Ghz on a 7900X which requires 1.275-1.300v on a good chip. Maybe more, depending on thermals. Or alternatively whatever clock I can achieve with these kind of volts on a good 12-core chip which might be lower or the same it all depends on the luck of the draw. Because the 12-core still uses the same LCC (low core count) die as the 6, 8 and 10 cores. The clock of all of them actually scales more or less the same with volts, the bigger ones are just more difficult to cool.
     
    Anyway as Kingpin used the little Micro board for his own record breaking 5.6Ghz XOC, he was pushing a lot of current though the vrms/mosfets. Granting the board was not modified by Kingpin, this in itself is a statement. In case it was modified beyond stock to be able to push those currents (which I'm not willing or able to do) I wanna know how much the Micro's Vrms can take. Or more precise: How much current/watts with disabled overcurrent protection it can draw before A: the vrms are going to reach their Tjmax and throttle (not how much current they are technically able to push which is probably in the 400A range) and B: when the single 8pin is maxed out. Disable the overcurrent protection is mandatory otherwise it will kick in and just turn off your board way too early.
     
    what I'm refering to is something like this (sorry I can't get a table to be displayed properly in this forum):
     
    Wattage numbers are roughly +/- 10W depending on measurement errors and ambient/error differences. Measurements are of VCCIN output power using VRM controller telemetry and confirmed by 12V input current clamp to make sure values are reliable.



    http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/923/WHz2DM.png
    (credits to elmor)
     
    For the record: Max ouput power is defined by the amount of wattage that can be put out by the vrm config without throttling of the vrms (not cpu). So the point when the heatsink isn't able to dissipate the amount of heat fast enough generated by the vrms and they reach their individual Tjmax. Tjmax is different on all boards depending on where on the board the temps for the vrms are measured. Actuall Tjmax of the VRM chips is higher. As you can see there is a bit of variance across the boards.

    What it boils down to in simple terms: How good is the ability of the vrm heatsink on the Micro to transfer the heat away before the vrms start to throttle down? So essencially the heatsink performance really assuming the vrm config is somewhere in the 400A range.
     
    This will enable me to figure out if I need to get a custom waterblock for the vrms aswell or if I can get away with air-cooling the vrms. This is a new challenge for this platform in general, because before even the 6950X wouldn't pull anywhere near as much current so the vrm design and heatsinks were sufficient on the X99 boards. Today we face very hungry chips when overclocked tackling the limits what the VRMs and by that I mean the vrm heatsink design can deal with on the current line-up of boards across all manufacturers especially now that most of the vrm heatsinks are unfortunately covered by plastic bits and rgb bling.
    post edited by Snipes7 - 2017/08/12 19:21:12

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    kougar
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    Re: Is 1x 8pin on the X299 Micro enough for Intel's 12core CPU? 2017/08/13 22:51:28 (permalink)
    That's crazy impressive he did that with a single EPS12v motherboard. I would assume board modifications were made. 
     
    Snipes7
    What it boils down to in simple terms: How good is the ability of the vrm heatsink on the Micro to transfer the heat away before the vrms start to throttle down? So essencially the heatsink performance really assuming the vrm config is somewhere in the 400A range.



    Another factor to consider is Der8auer mentions different boards use different inductors, you'd have to ask EVGA if they use linear inductors or what brand they are. I'm not versed on it. Also different board makers use different thermal limit settings, most boards are 105c but the Rampage VI Apex is 110c and the Aorus Gaming 3 is 115c. I'm going to assume EVGA's is 105c unless specified. Der8auer saw around a 30c drop in temps by using a small fan on the VRMs, so even they should run cool enough thermal throttling shouldn't become an issue with a dedicated fan. The single EPS12V connector or the CPU thermals will probably become the limitation first I'd imagine.


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    tusharsingal
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    Re: Is 1x 8pin on the X299 Micro enough for Intel's 12core CPU? 2017/08/14 00:26:14 (permalink)
    1x8 should be quite reliable with the 12-core on stock, or the 10-core with a moderate overclock.
     
    I wouldn't overclock the 12-core with just an 8-pin, however.
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    wjerla
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    Re: Is 1x 8pin on the X299 Micro enough for Intel's 12core CPU? 2017/08/14 05:02:55 (permalink)
    Well, from a cable perspective, a standard 8-pin cable using 18ga wire and standard connectors would max out around 300W or so.  Moving up to a cable with 16ga wire, using high current connectors, you could in theory get up to around 550W or so on a single 8-pin cable, assuming the power supply can support that (and has connectors for it) and the MB can support it (with proper connectors, power traces, etc.)
     
    So, in theory anyway, it is possible that a single 8-pin cable / connector could have supplied 550W for Vince's overclock.  Of course, that doesn't indicate whether the MB itself is designed for that stock, or whether as you mention modifications were made to the VRM circuitry on the board to enable that level of power.
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    Snipes7
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    Re: Is 1x 8pin on the X299 Micro enough for Intel's 12core CPU? 2017/08/14 13:36:14 (permalink)
    Well I have 750w Seasonic Prime Titanium and I can't find specifications on the provided cables, but to be frank the cables seem to have pretty standard thickness (if this is what 16a - 18a boils down to).

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    Snipes7
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    Re: Is 1x 8pin on the X299 Micro enough for Intel's 12core CPU? 2017/08/14 15:01:00 (permalink)
    Well I kept digging and found a pic of the Micro Vince used on hwbot. From the look of it he didn't rly mod the board. But cables of the 8-pin indeed look a bit thicker than avg. I feel with my more normal overclock of around 4.7-4.9 I should be fine.
     

     
    Further clarification would still be appreciated.

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