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Hot!Intel Has Fixed its 7 nm Node, But Outsourcing is Still Going to Happen

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rjohnson11
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2021/01/22 08:00:04 (permalink)
Intel Says it Fixed 7nm Process, But Will Still Outsource Some Parts | Tom's Hardware
 
Intel has today reported its Q4 2020 earnings disclosing full-year revenue with the current CEO Bob Swan, upcoming new CEO Pat Gelsinger, and Omar Ishrak, Chairman of Intel's board. During the call, company officials have talked about Intel's earnings and most importantly, addressing the current problems about the company's manufacturing part - semiconductor foundries. Incoming Intel CEO, Pat Gelsinger, has talked about the state of the 7 nm node, giving shareholders reassurance and a will to remain in such a position. He has made an argument that he has personally reviewed the progress of the "health and recovery of the 7 nm program."

The 7 nm node has been originally delayed by a full year amid the expectations, and as with the 10 nm node, we have believed that it is going to experience similar issues. However, the incoming CEO has reassured everyone that it is very much improving. The new 7 nm node is on track for 2023 delivery, when Intel is expected to compete with the 3 nm node of TSMC. Firstly, Intel will make a debut of the 7 nm node with client processors scheduled for 1H 2023 arrival, with data center models following that. The company leads have confirmed that Intel will stay true to its internal manufacturing, but have stressed that there will still be a need for some outsourcing to happen.
 
Well it certainly took long enough in my personal opinion. 

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    Re: Intel Has Fixed its 7 nm Node, But Outsourcing is Still Going to Happen 2021/01/22 08:15:43 (permalink)
    We'll see how good it is....

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    Hoggle
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    Re: Intel Has Fixed its 7 nm Node, But Outsourcing is Still Going to Happen 2021/01/22 08:46:35 (permalink)
    Hopefully Intel is able to catch up and take the lead. This long of a delay should never have happened to an industry leader.

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    rjohnson11
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    Re: Intel Has Fixed its 7 nm Node, But Outsourcing is Still Going to Happen 2021/01/22 08:56:31 (permalink)
    Hoggle
    Hopefully Intel is able to catch up and take the lead. This long of a delay should never have happened to an industry leader.


    Personally I hope Intel doesn't take the lead. It's time for AMD to lead for a while. 

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    kram36
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    Re: Intel Has Fixed its 7 nm Node, But Outsourcing is Still Going to Happen 2021/01/22 10:45:04 (permalink)
    rjohnson11
    Hoggle
    Hopefully Intel is able to catch up and take the lead. This long of a delay should never have happened to an industry leader.


    Personally I hope Intel doesn't take the lead. It's time for AMD to lead for a while. 


    Why? Once AMD got the lead everyone thought AMD would bless us with lower prices then Intel, but that didn't happen.

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    Re: Intel Has Fixed its 7 nm Node, But Outsourcing is Still Going to Happen 2021/01/22 22:05:41 (permalink)
    kram36
    Why? Once AMD got the lead everyone thought AMD would bless us with lower prices then Intel, but that didn't happen.




    Price/performance is still way better than Intel, and that's what it's always been about. 


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    kram36
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    Re: Intel Has Fixed its 7 nm Node, But Outsourcing is Still Going to Happen 2021/01/23 06:46:47 (permalink)
    kougar
    kram36
    Why? Once AMD got the lead everyone thought AMD would bless us with lower prices then Intel, but that didn't happen.




    Price/performance is still way better than Intel, and that's what it's always been about. 


    No it's not, it used to be that way with AMD, but no longer. When was the last time you looked at component prices? Even AMD's latest 6000 series video cards are over priced.
     
    If Intel can make a better product, why should we not get it? Just so AMD can have the "lead for a while"?

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    Re: Intel Has Fixed its 7 nm Node, But Outsourcing is Still Going to Happen 2021/01/23 11:48:01 (permalink)
    kram36
    No it's not, it used to be that way with AMD, but no longer. When was the last time you looked at component prices? Even AMD's latest 6000 series video cards are over priced.
     
    If Intel can make a better product, why should we not get it? Just so AMD can have the "lead for a while"?




    You're bouncing the subject around all over the place. Since the discussion was specifically AMD CPUs and the context was MSRP, I'm sticking with those. Even with the higher price of Ryzen 5000 it still wins the price/performance comparisons over Intel. Just look at the Price to performance charts if you're going to skip the rest. https://www.techspot.com/.../2135-amd-ryzen-5600x/


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    kram36
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    Re: Intel Has Fixed its 7 nm Node, But Outsourcing is Still Going to Happen 2021/01/23 12:15:33 (permalink)
    kougar
    kram36
    No it's not, it used to be that way with AMD, but no longer. When was the last time you looked at component prices? Even AMD's latest 6000 series video cards are over priced.
     
    If Intel can make a better product, why should we not get it? Just so AMD can have the "lead for a while"?




    You're bouncing the subject around all over the place. Since the discussion was specifically AMD CPUs and the context was MSRP, I'm sticking with those. Even with the higher price of Ryzen 5000 it still wins the price/performance comparisons over Intel. Just look at the Price to performance charts if you're going to skip the rest. https://www.techspot.com/.../2135-amd-ryzen-5600x/


    I'm not bouncing anything, I'm responding to the comment that AMD should keep the lead. Why? The i7-10700KF is ranked 5% better at gaming then the Ryzen 7 5800X and is ranked as a 11% better performance value. The i9-10850K is ranked 7% better at gaming then the Ryzen 7 5800X and is ranked as a 8% better performance value. The i9-10900KF is ranked 7% better at gaming then the Ryzen 9 5950X and is ranked as a 24% better performance value.
     
    So much for that AMD price/performance myth. AMD wasn't the price savior to Intel everyone thought they would be, at least not since AMD "got the lead" with the Ryzen 5000 series processors.

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    MasterMiner
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    Re: Intel Has Fixed its 7 nm Node, But Outsourcing is Still Going to Happen 2021/01/23 15:15:39 (permalink)
    Sounds like they’re right up there with SMIC in terms of node progress

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    RainStryke
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    Re: Intel Has Fixed its 7 nm Node, But Outsourcing is Still Going to Happen 2021/01/23 15:35:25 (permalink)
    kougar
    kram36
    No it's not, it used to be that way with AMD, but no longer. When was the last time you looked at component prices? Even AMD's latest 6000 series video cards are over priced.
     
    If Intel can make a better product, why should we not get it? Just so AMD can have the "lead for a while"?




    You're bouncing the subject around all over the place. Since the discussion was specifically AMD CPUs and the context was MSRP, I'm sticking with those. Even with the higher price of Ryzen 5000 it still wins the price/performance comparisons over Intel. Just look at the Price to performance charts if you're going to skip the rest. https://www.techspot.com/.../2135-amd-ryzen-5600x/




    The problem with that is most of the performance charts are excluding the i9 10850K which is actually an amazing deal. Nothing really competes with it at the $400 price point. I'm all ready seeing the i9 10900K for $469 at microcenter now. I have noticed reviewers love to hinder performance of the i9 10900K when comparing it to AMD because they don't think it's fair to include any overclocking, even though it's as easy as clicking two buttons to get it to run games at 5.2GHz all core.

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    kougar
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    Re: Intel Has Fixed its 7 nm Node, But Outsourcing is Still Going to Happen 2021/01/24 10:46:46 (permalink)
    RainStryke
    The problem with that is most of the performance charts are excluding the i9 10850K which is actually an amazing deal. Nothing really competes with it at the $400 price point. I'm all ready seeing the i9 10900K for $469 at microcenter now. I have noticed reviewers love to hinder performance of the i9 10900K when comparing it to AMD because they don't think it's fair to include any overclocking, even though it's as easy as clicking two buttons to get it to run games at 5.2GHz all core.




    Aye, I don't see the 10850K mentioned much. But its performance won't exceed the 10900K regardless. As for "tuned" and "overclocked" performance comparisons, the 5600X still beat the 10600K in all but one game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYhwBk8GE6M Gaming was Intel's last holdout, but it was already losing application benchmarks in droves before the 5000's came along. Sure Intel chips are being discounted right now, but I wouldn't want them regardless. I buy for the long haul and AMD's offering the best there. 
     


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    RainStryke
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    Re: Intel Has Fixed its 7 nm Node, But Outsourcing is Still Going to Happen 2021/01/24 16:12:04 (permalink)
    I'm not sure about that. Steve definitely leans towards AMD though, ever notice his charts do not list the driver set of the video card? That is an important neglected factor to the validity of his data. I just updated my drivers yesterday, saw huge improvements in FPS on Call of Duty Warzone. Before in the menus I was getting 120-160, now i'm getting 250FPS in the menus. I can turn on Ray Tracing and still get 130-140FPS which is amazing, because before it was more like 70-90FPS on Call of Duty Modern Warfare. Steve picks the games that are good at pushing his points, not the ones that most people care about. He's even admitted that he spends very little on PC hardware himself, he still owns a FX8350 as his main PC. He's in love with the old AMD before Global Foundries was no more, but they are about to start pushing up the prices, this jump from $329 for an 8 core 16 thread processor to a new generation went to $449. Looks like it's going to get worse

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    Xavier Zepherious
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    Re: Intel Has Fixed its 7 nm Node, But Outsourcing is Still Going to Happen 2021/01/24 23:55:45 (permalink)
    read
    https://semiaccurate.com/2021/01/20/another-intel-outsourcing-deal-comes-to-light/
     
    what Charlie is implying is that in order to meet demand, because they inly have one 10nm Fab and not the three they started with(one went back to 14 and the other to 7nm), is that Intel contracted a large 7nm consignment with TSMC to meet CPU demand (since TSMC 7nm is equiv to 10nm intel)
    intel said that 7nm will be ready in 2022-2023 and they added the extra fab there and maybe adding more... to go head to head with TSMC at 5nm
     
    basically buying up Silicon at TSMC to meet demand making CPU shortages for AMD as well as other silicon
     
    you wonder why TSMC has an ambitious Investment plan..
     
    https://www.fdiintelligence.com/article/77772 
     
    http://www.businesskorea.co.kr/news/articleView.html?idxno=58656 
     
    post edited by Xavier Zepherious - 2021/01/25 00:04:19


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    kevinc313
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    Re: Intel Has Fixed its 7 nm Node, But Outsourcing is Still Going to Happen 2021/01/26 10:33:44 (permalink)
    kram36
    rjohnson11
    Hoggle
    Hopefully Intel is able to catch up and take the lead. This long of a delay should never have happened to an industry leader.


    Personally I hope Intel doesn't take the lead. It's time for AMD to lead for a while. 


    Why? Once AMD got the lead everyone thought AMD would bless us with lower prices then Intel, but that didn't happen.




    Don't forget the better GPU availability.
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    kram36
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    Re: Intel Has Fixed its 7 nm Node, But Outsourcing is Still Going to Happen 2021/01/26 11:42:50 (permalink)
    kevinc313
    kram36
    rjohnson11
    Hoggle
    Hopefully Intel is able to catch up and take the lead. This long of a delay should never have happened to an industry leader.


    Personally I hope Intel doesn't take the lead. It's time for AMD to lead for a while. 


    Why? Once AMD got the lead everyone thought AMD would bless us with lower prices then Intel, but that didn't happen.




    Don't forget the better GPU availability.


    Eh, nope. You can't get a 6000 series gpu right now and the RX 5700 XT you can't get, unless you're willing to pay $1,000+ for a RX 5700 XT.
     
    https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?N=100007709%20601341484&Order=1
     
    https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?N=100007709%20601359511&Order=1
     

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    kevinc313
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    Re: Intel Has Fixed its 7 nm Node, But Outsourcing is Still Going to Happen 2021/01/26 15:37:21 (permalink)
    kram36
    kevinc313
    kram36
    rjohnson11
    Hoggle
    Hopefully Intel is able to catch up and take the lead. This long of a delay should never have happened to an industry leader.


    Personally I hope Intel doesn't take the lead. It's time for AMD to lead for a while. 


    Why? Once AMD got the lead everyone thought AMD would bless us with lower prices then Intel, but that didn't happen.




    Don't forget the better GPU availability.


    Eh, nope. You can't get a 6000 series gpu right now and the RX 5700 XT you can't get, unless you're willing to pay $1,000+ for a RX 5700 XT.
     
    https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?N=100007709%20601341484&Order=1
     
    https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?N=100007709%20601359511&Order=1
     




    Errr, nope???  It was claimed by many that AMD would release competitive GPU's with better availability than Nvidia.  While they are competitive, they certainly aren't available.
    #17
    kram36
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    Re: Intel Has Fixed its 7 nm Node, But Outsourcing is Still Going to Happen 2021/01/26 16:34:20 (permalink)
    kevinc313
    kram36
    kevinc313
    kram36
    rjohnson11
    Hoggle
    Hopefully Intel is able to catch up and take the lead. This long of a delay should never have happened to an industry leader.


    Personally I hope Intel doesn't take the lead. It's time for AMD to lead for a while. 


    Why? Once AMD got the lead everyone thought AMD would bless us with lower prices then Intel, but that didn't happen.




    Don't forget the better GPU availability.


    Eh, nope. You can't get a 6000 series gpu right now and the RX 5700 XT you can't get, unless you're willing to pay $1,000+ for a RX 5700 XT.
     
    https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?N=100007709%20601341484&Order=1
     
    https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?N=100007709%20601359511&Order=1
     




    Errr, nope???  It was claimed by many that AMD would release competitive GPU's with better availability than Nvidia.  While they are competitive, they certainly aren't available.


    Did you read what you posted? Let me put it here again "Don't forget the better GPU availability". You were wrong and I showed it and then you confirmed it with "they certainly aren't available". What are you even replying for?

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    kevinc313
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    Re: Intel Has Fixed its 7 nm Node, But Outsourcing is Still Going to Happen 2021/01/26 18:50:28 (permalink)
    kram36
    kevinc313
    kram36
    kevinc313
    kram36
    rjohnson11
    Hoggle
    Hopefully Intel is able to catch up and take the lead. This long of a delay should never have happened to an industry leader.


    Personally I hope Intel doesn't take the lead. It's time for AMD to lead for a while. 


    Why? Once AMD got the lead everyone thought AMD would bless us with lower prices then Intel, but that didn't happen.




    Don't forget the better GPU availability.


    Eh, nope. You can't get a 6000 series gpu right now and the RX 5700 XT you can't get, unless you're willing to pay $1,000+ for a RX 5700 XT.
     
    https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?N=100007709%20601341484&Order=1
     
    https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?N=100007709%20601359511&Order=1
     




    Errr, nope???  It was claimed by many that AMD would release competitive GPU's with better availability than Nvidia.  While they are competitive, they certainly aren't available.


    Did you read what you posted? Let me put it here again "Don't forget the better GPU availability". You were wrong and I showed it and then you confirmed it with "they certainly aren't available". What are you even replying for?




    LOL.  The only thing wrong is your contextual reading comprehension.  I replied to a post saying people were wrong about AMD keeping prices low by reminding everyone about the claim of AMD providing better GPU availability, which they obviously did not and that people were also wrong about.
    #19
    kram36
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    Re: Intel Has Fixed its 7 nm Node, But Outsourcing is Still Going to Happen 2021/01/27 06:47:41 (permalink)
    kevinc313
    kram36
    kevinc313
    kram36
    kevinc313
    kram36
    rjohnson11
    Hoggle
    Hopefully Intel is able to catch up and take the lead. This long of a delay should never have happened to an industry leader.


    Personally I hope Intel doesn't take the lead. It's time for AMD to lead for a while. 


    Why? Once AMD got the lead everyone thought AMD would bless us with lower prices then Intel, but that didn't happen.




    Don't forget the better GPU availability.


    Eh, nope. You can't get a 6000 series gpu right now and the RX 5700 XT you can't get, unless you're willing to pay $1,000+ for a RX 5700 XT.
     
    https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?N=100007709%20601341484&Order=1
     
    https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?N=100007709%20601359511&Order=1
     




    Errr, nope???  It was claimed by many that AMD would release competitive GPU's with better availability than Nvidia.  While they are competitive, they certainly aren't available.


    Did you read what you posted? Let me put it here again "Don't forget the better GPU availability". You were wrong and I showed it and then you confirmed it with "they certainly aren't available". What are you even replying for?




    LOL.  The only thing wrong is your contextual reading comprehension.  I replied to a post saying people were wrong about AMD keeping prices low by reminding everyone about the claim of AMD providing better GPU availability, which they obviously did not and that people were also wrong about.


    More like contextual writing comprehension on your part. If you meant AMD did no better than Nvidia in it's GPU availability on launch, then fing post it.

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    Xavier Zepherious
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    Re: Intel Has Fixed its 7 nm Node, But Outsourcing is Still Going to Happen 2021/01/27 17:49:08 (permalink)
    TSMC contracted to do 3nm for intel
     
    https://www.guru3d.com/ne...for-intel-in-2020.html


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    #21
    Xavier Zepherious
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    Re: Intel Has Fixed its 7 nm Node, But Outsourcing is Still Going to Happen 2021/01/28 17:26:00 (permalink)
    Report: Intel Signs Contract To Outsource CPUs To TSMC’s 3nm Process
     
    For Intel, this allows them to focus on R&D to advance process technology and reduce mass production risks. The crisis of shortages and process delays will be fully resolved by then.
     
    For TSMC, 3nm has already secured numerous customer commitments even before entering mass production. Besides Apple’s core orders, Intel's large orders are also in the pocket. Plus, almost all of the orders for advanced manufacturing processes from AMD, Mediatek and other major chip companies, as second and third wave mass production customers. Coinciding with the arrival of the 5G and AI era, order visibility is "cloudless". TSMC is of course super optimistic about the next 5 years.
     
    TSMC has already begun initial site preparation and cooperation with Apple in technology research and development for 2nm, and has also secured Intel's commitment for continued cooperation; its confidence is well-founded. TSMC would not respond to customer and order-related queries.
    It is worth noting that TSMC is ASML's largest customer for EUV lithography equipment. Cumulative purchases are estimated to exceed 30 units by the end of 2020. The 5/3nm production base in Southern Taiwan Science Park alone currently has more than 20 units. In 2021, purchases will be further expanded, with an estimated 18-20 units. Cumulatively, that is roughly the sum total of Intel and Samsung's purchases combined.
     
     
    https://wccftech.com/repo...-to-tsmcs-3nm-process/


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