KingEngineRevUp
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Re: I did some testing and I believe I understand the discrepancies of power draw between
2021/07/30 09:31:50
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Fuzzy833 I would love to test it, but I'm pretty new to PC hardware so fairly reluctant to change my setup too much at the mo, as overall I'm happy. Installing the hybrid kit was enough excitement for a while đ.
Noob question, but if I did move the fans to the MB, how do I configure them to track the GPU temps? Just some fan control software that has access to the temp data it needs to ramp up/down the fans?
I use a program called Argus Monitor, it lets you create fan profiles based off of other devices. I have a memory fan, CPU fans and GPU fans and they all work based off of those devices temperatures.
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kevinc313
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Re: I did some testing and I believe I understand the discrepancies of power draw between
2021/07/30 09:33:46
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Fuzzy833Noob question, but if I did move the fans to the MB, how do I configure them to track the GPU temps?
"Fan Control" freeware on github. Really great.
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homestyle
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Re: I did some testing and I believe I understand the discrepancies of power draw between
2021/07/30 09:38:56
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This is a false comparison. You started out wrong. You cannot compare another user's card that is running extra fans off the card. You need to use a similar model card from someone that is confirmed running more power and compare. And make sure they are not running extra fans.
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KingEngineRevUp
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Re: I did some testing and I believe I understand the discrepancies of power draw between
2021/07/30 09:42:59
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homestyle This is a false comparison. You started out wrong. You cannot compare another user's card that is running extra fans off the card. You need to use a similar model card from someone that is confirmed running more power and compare. And make sure they are not running extra fans.
We are using the exact same card, a FTW3 3080 Ti Hybrid with the exact same settings with PL, Core and Memory. The only difference is my card's fans are powered by my PSU directly, his is powered by the GPU board.
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ObscureEmpyre
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Re: I did some testing and I believe I understand the discrepancies of power draw between
2021/07/30 09:47:26
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KingEngineRevUp
MartinUK Â
ObscureEmpyre
I want to mention that this isn't just a observation for the FTW3. The Strix and Suprim X users I have met have experienced the same thing. Their cards kind of float around 400W, not 450W and 440W. This is the Strix below.  Â
Iâve noticed this as well, and Iâm wondering if GPU boost is the culprit. Temps and power may be fine, but voltage is like ânah.â Power might increase to 400~, but then voltage freaks out about it and lowers the power. That, in turn, lowers core clock. Thatâs been my observation. GPU boost is too aggressive with its stepping.
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ObscureEmpyre
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Re: I did some testing and I believe I understand the discrepancies of power draw between
2021/07/30 09:49:44
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KingEngineRevUp
homestyle This is a false comparison. You started out wrong. You cannot compare another user's card that is running extra fans off the card. Â You need to use a similar model card from someone that is confirmed running more power and compare. And make sure they are not running extra fans.
We are using the exact same card, a FTW3 3080 Ti Hybrid with the exact same settings with PL, Core and Memory. The only difference is my card's fans are powered by my PSU directly, his is powered by the GPU board.  Â
Mineâs not using a hybrid kit, but part of a custom loop, so the fans definitely arenât being controlled by the card. Mine are connected to a PWM fan hub thatâs connected to my CPU fan header and controlled via the motherboard BIOS/UEFI.
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KingEngineRevUp
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Re: I did some testing and I believe I understand the discrepancies of power draw between
2021/07/30 09:54:25
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ObscureEmpyre Iâve noticed this as well, and Iâm wondering if GPU boost is the culprit. Temps and power may be fine, but voltage is like ânah.â Power might increase to 400~, but then voltage freaks out about it and lowers the power. That, in turn, lowers core clock. Thatâs been my observation. GPU boost is too aggressive with its stepping.
Talon has a good post. He tested the cards power draw by two different means and saw the power drawn to the card was a bit greater than what GPU-Z was reporting. So his findings are probably valid. ObscureEmpyre
Mineâs not using a hybrid kit, but part of a custom loop, so the fans definitely arenât being controlled by the card. Mine are connected to a PWM fan hub thatâs connected to my CPU fan header and controlled via the motherboard BIOS/UEFI.
Right and your card doesn't draw 445-450W average (not max) like Faux123 card correct?
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kevinc313
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Re: I did some testing and I believe I understand the discrepancies of power draw between
2021/07/30 10:20:48
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King, what happens when you lock voltage in the 1.075-1.1V range?
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KingEngineRevUp
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Re: I did some testing and I believe I understand the discrepancies of power draw between
2021/07/30 10:29:32
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kevinc313 King, what happens when you lock voltage in the 1.075-1.1V range?
In the past when I did that with other cards that were power limited, the voltage would hold, but power and clocks would drop and clocks IIRC would drop quite drastically. I haven't done that on my 3080 Ti.
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atfrico
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Re: I did some testing and I believe I understand the discrepancies of power draw between
2021/07/30 10:33:16
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kevinc313 King, what happens when you lock voltage in the 1.075-1.1V range?
I wonder how this will affect performance when voltage is locked at a certain number
T hose who abuse power, are nothing but scumbags! The challenge of power is how to use it and not abuse it. The abuse of power that seems to create the most unhappiness is when a person uses personal power to get ahead without regards to the welfare of others, people are obsessed with it. You can take a nice person and turn them into a slob, into an insane being, craving power, destroying anything that stands in their way. Affiliate Code: 3T15O1S07G
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ObscureEmpyre
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Re: I did some testing and I believe I understand the discrepancies of power draw between
2021/07/30 10:55:07
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KingEngineRevUp
ObscureEmpyre Iâve noticed this as well, and Iâm wondering if GPU boost is the culprit. Temps and power may be fine, but voltage is like ânah.â Power might increase to 400~, but then voltage freaks out about it and lowers the power. That, in turn, lowers core clock. Thatâs been my observation. GPU boost is too aggressive with its stepping.
 Talon has a good post. He tested the cards power draw by two different means and saw the power drawn to the card was a bit greater than what GPU-Z was reporting. So his findings are probably valid.  Â
ObscureEmpyre
Mineâs not using a hybrid kit, but part of a custom loop, so the fans definitely arenât being controlled by the card. Mine are connected to a PWM fan hub thatâs connected to my CPU fan header and controlled via the motherboard BIOS/UEFI.
Right and your card doesn't draw 445-450W average (not max) like Faux123 card correct?  Â
To the first part: Iâm using HWiNFO primarily, and using the OSD through MSI Afterburner. Not sure if thereâs a discrepancy between GPU-Z and HWiNFO, or if theyâre reporting the same readings. Iâll have to test that. To the second part: Oh, heck no. Most of the time, mines fluctuating between the 200s-300s in terms of wattage. It could be that some games Iâm playing arenât demanding that much. However, some like BFV I average 250-300, RDR2 averages 350-400, and Warzone hangs around 350. Cyberpunk Iâve seen go above 400, but it hangs right around 375-400 most of the time.
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ObscureEmpyre
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Re: I did some testing and I believe I understand the discrepancies of power draw between
2021/07/30 10:59:40
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atfrico
kevinc313 King, what happens when you lock voltage in the 1.075-1.1V range?
I wonder how this will affect performance when voltage is locked at a certain number
What are you using to lock it with? PX1 doesnât seem to have the K-Boost feature that older versions had, and âforce constant voltageâ via MSI Afterburner doesnât do anything. Not with my card anyway.
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atfrico
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Re: I did some testing and I believe I understand the discrepancies of power draw between
2021/07/30 11:05:02
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ObscureEmpyre
atfrico
kevinc313 King, what happens when you lock voltage in the 1.075-1.1V range?
I wonder how this will affect performance when voltage is locked at a certain number
What are you using to lock it with? PX1 doesnât seem to have the K-Boost feature that older versions had, and âforce constant voltageâ via MSI Afterburner doesnât do anything. Not with my card anyway.
My apologies for misguiding you but i dont own a 3080ti at the moment. The feedback I am getting from you, Kram, kevin, gsrcrxsi and others are really helpful. By the time i get my hands on one, I will be ready to OC with no room for error. Letting the hardware to automatically set up voltage might differ when setting it up manually. I want to see if setting up voltage manually will affect performance scores in benches
post edited by atfrico - 2021/07/30 11:07:06
T hose who abuse power, are nothing but scumbags! The challenge of power is how to use it and not abuse it. The abuse of power that seems to create the most unhappiness is when a person uses personal power to get ahead without regards to the welfare of others, people are obsessed with it. You can take a nice person and turn them into a slob, into an insane being, craving power, destroying anything that stands in their way. Affiliate Code: 3T15O1S07G
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RogueMaster
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Re: I did some testing and I believe I understand the discrepancies of power draw between
2021/07/30 13:56:15
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Ran Port Royal several times on my machine, and was wondering if my 3090 might be one of the suspect cards.
76.2w showing on the PCIE power 12v. Add in the ~8w for the 3v, and it's pushing 84w, if I'm understanding that correctly?
I have the dreaded Rev 0.1 card (black lips), so I'm a bit concerned that this thing is eventually going to pop.
I can post a pic of the GPU-Z screen later, for some reason I can't do that on mobile. I'm thinking I need to send off an email to the 3090oc address and start the RMA process, but thought I'd see what you folks think first.
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KingEngineRevUp
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Re: I did some testing and I believe I understand the discrepancies of power draw between
2021/07/30 14:00:03
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RogueMaster Ran Port Royal several times on my machine, and was wondering if my 3090 might be one of the suspect cards.
76.2w showing on the PCIE power 12v. Add in the ~8w for the 3v, and it's pushing 84w, if I'm understanding that correctly?
I have the dreaded Rev 0.1 card (black lips), so I'm a bit concerned that this thing is eventually going to pop.
I can post a pic of the GPU-Z screen later, for some reason I can't do that on mobile. I'm thinking I need to send off an email to the 3090oc address and start the RMA process, but thought I'd see what you folks think first.
Doesn't hurt to ask for an RMA, worse they can say is no right? And your card is still under warranty regardless.
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ObscureEmpyre
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Re: I did some testing and I believe I understand the discrepancies of power draw between
2021/07/30 15:31:08
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KingEngineRevUp
RogueMaster Ran Port Royal several times on my machine, and was wondering if my 3090 might be one of the suspect cards.
76.2w showing on the PCIE power 12v. Add in the ~8w for the 3v, and it's pushing 84w, if I'm understanding that correctly?
I have the dreaded Rev 0.1 card (black lips), so I'm a bit concerned that this thing is eventually going to pop.
I can post a pic of the GPU-Z screen later, for some reason I can't do that on mobile. I'm thinking I need to send off an email to the 3090oc address and start the RMA process, but thought I'd see what you folks think first.
Doesn't hurt to ask for an RMA, worse they can say is no right? And your card is still under warranty regardless.Â
Donât black lips mean revision 1.0?
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homestyle
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Re: I did some testing and I believe I understand the discrepancies of power draw between
2021/07/30 17:29:16
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KingEngineRevUp
homestyle This is a false comparison. You started out wrong. You cannot compare another user's card that is running extra fans off the card. You need to use a similar model card from someone that is confirmed running more power and compare. And make sure they are not running extra fans.
The only difference is my card's fans are powered by my PSU directly, his is powered by the GPU board.
That is a huge difference. If you want to make statements like, "all of you are delusional. the difference in power wattage you are seeing is because of fans..." Then you need to find someone that has the same card as you not using the gpu fan pins that is confirmed to be able to increase power limit beyond what you are able to acheive and compare the voltage. There are already reports of people that can boost their 3080 ftw3 cards up to the 450 watt bios and others that cannot. If you want to explain this then you need to compare equal cards without using the fan pinouts on the card. That is a basic comparison. Thanks for doing this, but I am just pointing out the obvious. You are implying that those that are reporting higher wattage are using the gpu fan pinouts which is false.
post edited by homestyle - 2021/07/30 17:35:30
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talon951
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Re: I did some testing and I believe I understand the discrepancies of power draw between
2021/07/30 18:17:14
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I ran the full 20 cycles of TSE stress test and put the data in this spreadsheet. Trimmed out the lines before and after the run. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QUe26vQxcmgeB0pNIrBhkDBnOCC8DRfL87xFoDToEgc/edit?usp=sharing Average power: 431w Average voltage: 0.970v Core: +120 Mem: +1000 BTW, I know some don't buy in to this and that's fine, but I put my clamp meter on 8 pin #2 while running in CP2077 (no movement to keep power from bouncing as much). GPUZ 8pin #2: ~150w GPUZ 8pin #2 voltage: 11.9v Clamp meter reading of 8 pin #2: ~15.4 amps 11.9 * 15.4 = 183w!! The clamp meter would have to be off by almost 3 amps just on that one connector to be wrong (and GPUZ to be correct). Both of the other two 8pins still matched within 5w or so. Just the 2nd that reads high repeatedly. Total power was bouncing between 410-430w in GPUZ which is pretty normal for CP2077.
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talon951
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Re: I did some testing and I believe I understand the discrepancies of power draw between
2021/07/30 18:32:55
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kevinc313
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Re: I did some testing and I believe I understand the discrepancies of power draw between
2021/07/30 19:19:25
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ObscureEmpyre
atfrico
kevinc313 King, what happens when you lock voltage in the 1.075-1.1V range?
I wonder how this will affect performance when voltage is locked at a certain number
What are you using to lock it with? PX1 doesnât seem to have the K-Boost feature that older versions had, and âforce constant voltageâ via MSI Afterburner doesnât do anything. Not with my card anyway.
I use X1 to apply a negative core clock adjustment like -150, then use the graph to drag up a voltage-clock frequency point to where you want it, above all the rest of the graph. May hit the target, may pull out a few 15mhz clock bins. Boost 4.0 gets the last word though, so sometimes it might do something else like dropping down on the curve or just picking whatever it wants. Heard there are some mining software that allow clock and core voltage locking, NH Quickminer has a OC tune HTML interface. Same Boost 4.0 override applies. I guess you could potentially use that for benching, but I have no idea if it would work or not.
post edited by kevinc313 - 2021/07/30 19:27:32
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TwoEvilOne
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Re: I did some testing and I believe I understand the discrepancies of power draw between
2021/07/30 19:27:39
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Temperature, keep it cool and it will perform.
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KingEngineRevUp
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Re: I did some testing and I believe I understand the discrepancies of power draw between
2021/07/30 19:32:17
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TwoEvilOne Temperature, keep it cool and it will perform.
Uh, okay everyone knows that.
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ObscureEmpyre
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Re: I did some testing and I believe I understand the discrepancies of power draw between
2021/07/30 19:41:37
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kevinc313
ObscureEmpyre
atfrico
kevinc313 King, what happens when you lock voltage in the 1.075-1.1V range?
I wonder how this will affect performance when voltage is locked at a certain number
What are you using to lock it with? PX1 doesnât seem to have the K-Boost feature that older versions had, and âforce constant voltageâ via MSI Afterburner doesnât do anything. Not with my card anyway.
I use X1 to apply a negative core clock adjustment like -150, then use the graph to drag up a voltage-clock frequency point to where you want it, above all the rest of the graph. May hit the target, may pull out a few 15mhz clock bins. Boost 4.0 gets the last word though, so sometimes it might do something else like dropping down on the curve or just picking whatever it wants.  Heard there are some mining software that allow clock and core voltage locking, NH Quickminer has a OC tune HTML interface. Same Boost 4.0 override applies. I guess you could potentially use that for benching, but I have no idea if it would work or not.
Ah, so itâs kind of like reverse under-volting. Still annoying that K-Boost was done away with. I remember having to use that with my 980 Classified for one game in particular because voltage fluctuations would cause it to crash. Had that card RMAâd for a revision that seemed to fix the problem.
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talon951
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Re: I did some testing and I believe I understand the discrepancies of power draw between
2021/07/30 19:44:39
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What am I missing? Just select a point in Afterburner and hit L. Locks to that voltage point (if you have enough power to sustain it).
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kevinc313
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Re: I did some testing and I believe I understand the discrepancies of power draw between
2021/07/30 20:22:04
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talon951 What am I missing? Just select a point in Afterburner and hit L. Locks to that voltage point (if you have enough power to sustain it).
Well yeah, that too.
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ObscureEmpyre
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Re: I did some testing and I believe I understand the discrepancies of power draw between
2021/07/30 21:18:19
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talon951 What am I missing? Just select a point in Afterburner and hit L. Locks to that voltage point (if you have enough power to sustain it).
Iâve tried that. Doesnât sustain it for long.
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KingEngineRevUp
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Re: I did some testing and I believe I understand the discrepancies of power draw between
2021/07/30 21:24:47
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talon951 I ran the full 20 cycles of TSE stress test and put the data in this spreadsheet. Trimmed out the lines before and after the run. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QUe26vQxcmgeB0pNIrBhkDBnOCC8DRfL87xFoDToEgc/edit?usp=sharing Average power: 431w Average voltage: 0.970v Core: +120 Mem: +1000 BTW, I know some don't buy in to this and that's fine, but I put my clamp meter on 8 pin #2 while running in CP2077 (no movement to keep power from bouncing as much). GPUZ 8pin #2: ~150w GPUZ 8pin #2 voltage: 11.9v Clamp meter reading of 8 pin #2: ~15.4 amps 11.9 * 15.4 = 183w!! The clamp meter would have to be off by almost 3 amps just on that one connector to be wrong (and GPUZ to be correct). Both of the other two 8pins still matched within 5w or so. Just the 2nd that reads high repeatedly. Total power was bouncing between 410-430w in GPUZ which is pretty normal for CP2077.
talon951 Ran it again to shoot this quick vid and it was even a little higher. Avert your eyes if you can't stand to see wires hanging out of a computer. LOL https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hioxx2QAsdE
Hey Talon, I apologize, I missed these two post of yours. Great work here! I see you're not running fan #1 at 100% which is about a 4.5W draw. I also see your not running Fan #2 at 100% like Faux123. I imagine if both of these fans were at 100% you'd increase you're average power draw by about 10-15W and you would be matching Faux123. Your voltage seems within margin of Faux123 and I, although we did a full run of Timespy Extreme, not the loop which has a different scene. But it looks like the FTW3 is working as intended or rather like I stated earlier, a portion of power is dedicated to what I will call peripherals (RGB, Shroud fans, case fans, etc.) It looks like from your data, my data and Faux123 data, our voltage isn't dropping and our clocks are around a similar average.
post edited by KingEngineRevUp - 2021/07/30 21:35:27
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KingEngineRevUp
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Re: I did some testing and I believe I understand the discrepancies of power draw between
2021/07/30 21:52:14
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ObscureEmpyre
talon951 What am I missing? Just select a point in Afterburner and hit L. Locks to that voltage point (if you have enough power to sustain it).
Iâve tried that. Doesnât sustain it for long.
Like Talon's last part says, you have to have the power still. I think I write a post to you before about power, voltage and current. I'm not sure if you saw it. Copy and pasting from another post. Maybe you know this maybe you don't. This is to those that don't. Or the exact equation nor are these real numbers, but you'll get the idea Power = voltage * current When you're power limited, that is a fixed number. Let's say 100W Current starts at 1v 100W = 100A * 1v Now how does boost work? You have a voltage curve that automatically boost you upward. 2010 MHz at 1v 1955 MHz at 0.9v 1905 MHz at 0.8v When the system asks for more current and you hit your power limit, then your voltage will go down 100W = 100A * 1v at 2010 MHz System needs to draw 111A, voltage drops to 0.9v, power is at 100W 100W = 111A * 0.9v at 1955 MHz So because you're power limited, you have to drop voltage which will drop stability at higher clocks which will therefore drop your clock speed according to your voltage curve. So let's say KRAM card can only access 80W, then he's already at 80W = 100A * 0.8V at 1905 MHz That's pretty much what boost is doing. I didn't even write in temperature in there. Temperature changes the clock speed on your voltage card because hotter temperature result in instability, so that's another level boost handles.
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RogueMaster
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Re: I did some testing and I believe I understand the discrepancies of power draw between
2021/07/30 22:21:18
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ObscureEmpyre Donât black lips mean revision 1.0?
Negative. This card has the black lips, and the lock tab shows Rev 0.1 on it. GPU-Z info mentioned earlier below. The three 8 pin power draws look like they're close, but that PCIE draw worries me a bit.
post edited by RogueMaster - 2021/07/30 22:24:50
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kevinc313
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Re: I did some testing and I believe I understand the discrepancies of power draw between
2022/02/08 09:11:39
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KingEngineRevUp
talon951 Well my fans are only 1.56w each according to Arctic. So I wouldn't expect to see much change. I'm using the mobo mainly because I like using Argus Monitor for fan control.
https://www.arctic.de/en/...P120/ACFAN00167A#specs
0.13a x 12v
Hey Talon, the fans on the Hybrid are 0.65A at 12V
Yeah, but they don't pull that, because they don't run at 100% PWM. Combined with '100%' X1 setting when attached to a card, I'd say they pull about 8w or so as a pair. If anyone really cares I could test it, but not in a timely manner.
post edited by kevinc313 - 2022/02/08 09:22:09
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