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Hot!Having real mixed feelings on 3090 XC3 Ultra - Any help making up my mind would be welcome

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Poobah1972
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2020/10/16 06:05:45 (permalink)
Since long before release day, when I realized EVGA was offering pretty much the only 3090 card I can fit in my Fractal Core 500 case... I've been dreaming about the day I could get one.
 
Since release though, every where I turn I continually see people dealing with High Temperatures, and with those high temps, reduced clock speed and sub par performance compared to other 3090's in the same price class.  I totally get any 3090 generates more heat than the typical 2080ti, more power = more heat.  I also totally understand, a good case with ample air flow can conquer the heat and result in at least decent performance.   I'm not looking to overclock anyway, however I am looking to get that Approximate 40-50% improvement over the 2080ti.
 
Mostly, I want to be able to up my VR capabilities... Valve index to be specific, particularly with hard to play titles that I have purchased but haven't yet played.  No man's sky, Elite Dangerious, Skyrim VR (heavily modded), all three titles which appear to run substantially better with the 30 series.
 
However, I'm trying to not let my hopes of what the card can achieve in my system, cloud the reality of what I should probably expect given my current build.  My brain tells me, the 3090 XC3 Ultra will just run to hot to allow any kind of a decent turbo.  I can imagine, that ~15-20% gain in VR titles (going from 3080 to 3090) will likely be reduced to 5-10% if I'm lucky.  Giving me something along the line of 35-40% better performance over the 3080 Founders edition.
 
My current system... Currently has a 2080ti (3 fan model) which heats up to 76 degree's during a Unreal Superposition bench mark.  Which for me is perfectly acceptable heat wise when under full load and 100% GPU Utilization.
 
So a number of scenario's have gone though my mind.
 
1. I'll be able to under volt the card, lowering total power consumption (15-20%) and as such lowering heat to something similar to my 2080ti.  My understanding is if there is one area the 3090 XC3 might do well, is maintaining lower VRM and VRAM Temps, at the cost of higher GPU die Temp.  So In my mind I'd like to think that an under volt with reduced timings may allow a slight OC to Vram potentially getting me close to stock performance with Thermals under control.  But this is pure speculation on my part, and something I would love to hear more thoughts on, especially from anyone with a similar set of circumstances that has succeeding in controlling temps with near stock performance.
 
2. Try the to undervolt above, but accept the fact I may not be able to get better then even just 5%-10% better per performance then the 3080 FE at a very much higher cost.  Does anyone think 5-10% performance increase over a 3080FE seem about right in my situation?  If this is the case, I'll probably have instant buyers remorse, especially at just +5%. lol
 
3. Cancel my position in Que... Dust myself off and buy the much less expensive 3080 Founders edition.  As it's 50% blower, and given what I have seen of thermals This card will very likely run cooler in my system, then my current 2080ti before it.  Would you guys agree it would?  Much cheaper, for more or less a 30% performance boots over the 2080ti and even more so in some titles, particularly no man's sky and elite dangerous if memory serves me.  However, It will only have 10 Gigs of Vram, which isn't ideal down the road, and definitely not ideal for maximizing what's possible playing Skyrim VR with all the bells and whistle mods. (I can suck it up and live with it till 5nm tech comes out (and put skyrim VR off for another year or 2).
 
4. Other options... Wait for better options.  What can Big Navi really do?  I will be surprised however if it's better then a 3080 FE, so probably not a real option.  Plus there is the whole consideration of Nvidia tech namely DLSS coming to VR and let's not forget VRSS (if implemented correctly both of those factors can have a huge impact on VR performance).  Thus even if Big Navi did have 3080 like performance, I seriously doubt we will see them make very far strides where drivers are concerned and those particular kind of goodies, where as the chances of some sort of real world implementation for Nvidia is far more likely.  So even though power usage is likely to be less, I doubt it is a real option over the 3080 FE.
 
5. Other Options... Wait for Gigabytes 2090 with blower...  There isn't any real world data on this period.  I suspect it will run pretty warm, but with my case in mind overall it should run cooler then XC3 ultimately.  Maybe net me another 10-15% better than a 3080FE... Perhaps more, if it cools better then expected.  The card is completely encased in Steel, and my system is loaded with fans and good air flow given it's Form factor, so this could work in my favor getting me to decent stock performance.  This option may only get my an extra 5%-10% over option 2, and at a who knows how long of a wait.  EDIT or as was mentioned the 3080ti, but will the founders edition be available in 2 slots like the 3080?
 
6. Stop worrying about it, be happy where I am now... And wait for the next generation of cards hopefully on the 5nm process with reduced power consumption.
 
For what it's worth... I know EVGA warranty and service is top notch and that does mean something.  I would love to get the XC3 3090 and if it didn't work out I could step up into an FTW3... However that's not really an option, unless I decided to get an entirely new case, which would also mean I'd need a NEW CPU cooler (as my current one is specifically selected for my current case).  And if I'm going to go that far, I might as well get a new power supply and pour the power to the GPU.  This all quickly adds up.  Plus I just don't have room or wants for a larger case... So this isn't an option I want to pursue. (mostly my fiancé will not like it.. My current rig is very unremarkable and fiancé friendly. lol).
 
Every time I think I make up my mind... An hour or day goes by and I make it up again.  The point is, I'm honestly not sure and I'm looking for real world feed back from people that have hands on experience.  Maybe you have a small form factor case where previously a 2080ti was right at home, and 2.5 tier + cards are no go.. What did you decide?  Do you have any good information or thoughts on the subject?  Anyone else have similar thoughts, which way are you going?
 
Basically crunch time is right around the corner.... A decision needs to be made, and I really just don't know what the heck I'm going to do.
 
Thanks all!
 
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post edited by Poobah1972 - 2020/10/16 08:44:02
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    bmgjet
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    Re: Having real mixed feelings on 3090 XC3 Ultra - Any help making up my mind would be wel 2020/10/16 06:12:26 (permalink)
    XC3 Ultra in its stock form isnt really any better then the high end 3080s.
    Its too power gimped since they expect it to run on 350/366W VS 3080s which are running 375-450W now.
    Get a high end 3090 other wise that extra money your paying for a 3090 over a 3080 will just be for more ram on the same level of performance.
    #2
    Poobah1972
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    Re: Having real mixed feelings on 3090 XC3 Ultra - Any help making up my mind would be wel 2020/10/16 06:46:09 (permalink)
    bmgjet
    XC3 Ultra in its stock form isnt really any better then the high end 3080s.
    Its too power gimped since they expect it to run on 350/366W VS 3080s which are running 375-450W now.
    Get a high end 3090 other wise that extra money your paying for a 3090 over a 3080 will just be for more ram on the same level of performance.



    I completely agree with you, that if your in the market for a 3090 and your Case can support one... Then absolutely choose a high end 3090 at the slight premium over a lower tier 3090. Unfortunately my case does not support it, so I'm really only interested in getting Stock FE performance or close to it, if that is possible in a 3090 in my situation.  (at best I can fit a 2.2-2.4? slot card)
    #3
    buttabean
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    Re: Having real mixed feelings on 3090 XC3 Ultra - Any help making up my mind would be wel 2020/10/16 07:06:15 (permalink)
    Poobah1972
    bmgjet
    XC3 Ultra in its stock form isnt really any better then the high end 3080s.
    Its too power gimped since they expect it to run on 350/366W VS 3080s which are running 375-450W now.
    Get a high end 3090 other wise that extra money your paying for a 3090 over a 3080 will just be for more ram on the same level of performance.



    I completely agree with you, that if your in the market for a 3090 and your Case can support one... Then absolutely choose a high end 3090 at the slight premium over a lower tier 3090. Unfortunately my case does not support it, so I'm really only interested in getting Stock FE performance or close to it, if that is possible in a 3090 in my situation.  (at best I can fit a 2.2-2.4? slot card)


    I was in your boat. I had a case that would fit the xc3 or ftw3 with a few slight mods to my config but i couldn't fit a fe. I ended up just buying a new case so I'm not restricted with my options. I also wanted a open water loop after seeing how many watts these new cards use.
     
    What's your cpu temp? I wonder if you'll have heat issues with a mini-itx case. Have you seen any itx builds with 3090's?

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    davtarazona
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    Re: Having real mixed feelings on 3090 XC3 Ultra - Any help making up my mind would be wel 2020/10/16 07:24:04 (permalink)
    I personally wouldn't get a 3090 if you're just focused on gaming as you won't really see much of a performance boost worth for the price you're paying for that card. price/performance .  Nvidia was smart in their marketing and pushing the cards towards gamers on their announcement but in reality you're not going to game at 8K (not real 8k) . And most likely won't need anything close to 24GB of vram for your gaming.
     
    If you are patient I would wait for the 3080Ti that people are talking about. if you can't wait I would go for a 3080 as it seems in your circumstances including the issue with your fiance, case, psu etc is the better option for you.
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    buttabean
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    Re: Having real mixed feelings on 3090 XC3 Ultra - Any help making up my mind would be wel 2020/10/16 07:29:09 (permalink)
    davtarazona
    I personally wouldn't get a 3090 if you're just focused on gaming as you won't really see much of a performance boost worth for the price you're paying for that card. price/performance .  Nvidia was smart in their marketing and pushing the cards towards gamers on their announcement but in reality you're not going to game at 8K (not real 8k) . And most likely won't need anything close to 24GB of vram for your gaming.
     
    If you are patient I would wait for the 3080Ti that people are talking about. if you can't wait I would go for a 3080 as it seems in your circumstances including the issue with your fiance, case, psu etc is the better option for you.


    +1

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    Poobah1972
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    Re: Having real mixed feelings on 3090 XC3 Ultra - Any help making up my mind would be wel 2020/10/16 07:33:49 (permalink)
    buttabean
     
    I was in your boat. I had a case that would fit the xc3 or ftw3 with a few slight mods to my config but i couldn't fit a fe. I ended up just buying a new case so I'm not restricted with my options. I also wanted a open water loop after seeing how many watts these new cards use.
     
    What's your cpu temp? I wonder if you'll have heat issues with a mini-itx case. Have you seen any itx builds with 3090's?



    CPU is fine, I never see it over 70 degree's running multiple instances of Handbrake while playing RDR2 for instance, generally it sticks around 4.1 all core for the most part (under most circumstance significantly less then 70).  I haven't bothered to OC at all mind you.  But as mentioned my PNY 2080ti XLR8 hits 76 during Unengine Superposition, and running Furmark it hits 82.  So I take it for granted a 3090 xc3 will be hotter then 76 during the benchmark even with the aggressive fan speed. The only thing I can think to do with my system as is, is take my 3000rpm fan from my CPU cooler and switch it with my 140 exhaust fan as my CPU just doesn't need the 3000 rpm (Thus I have it limited to ~1800 rpm currently).  The other option which would probably help more, is rotate all my fans.  Turning the top fan's into exhaust, Rear fan into intake and reverse my push pull (this will definately raise the temps of my CPu, M.2's VRM's, and memory (All exceptionally cool right now) Maybe I have headroom though, wouldnt' know until I try. (exhausting up ultimately would likely remove heat the quickest.
     
    Current setup layout attached below.
     

     
     
    If you aren't familiar with the case, the entire length of the side panel about GPU width is well ventilated.  So the GPU has access to lots of fresh air.
    post edited by Poobah1972 - 2020/10/16 07:46:24

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    Poobah1972
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    Re: Having real mixed feelings on 3090 XC3 Ultra - Any help making up my mind would be wel 2020/10/16 07:58:25 (permalink)
    davtarazona
    I personally wouldn't get a 3090 if you're just focused on gaming as you won't really see much of a performance boost worth for the price you're paying for that card. price/performance .  Nvidia was smart in their marketing and pushing the cards towards gamers on their announcement but in reality you're not going to game at 8K (not real 8k) . And most likely won't need anything close to 24GB of vram for your gaming.
     
    If you are patient I would wait for the 3080Ti that people are talking about. if you can't wait I would go for a 3080 as it seems in your circumstances including the issue with your fiance, case, psu etc is the better option for you.



    Totally Get that... And that is a consideration, however I'm stupid and I'm willing to pay a large price increase if I can get close to that 50% better performance in VR over the 2080ti.  And I agree a 3080ti is a great option, only if it will be available in a 2 slot founders edition?  If yes, than that might be my best option.
    post edited by Poobah1972 - 2020/10/16 08:03:03
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    kjkPC
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    Re: Having real mixed feelings on 3090 XC3 Ultra - Any help making up my mind would be wel 2020/10/16 08:03:40 (permalink)
    Poobah1972
    Mostly, I want to be able to up my VR capabilities... Valve index to be specific, particularly with hard to play titles that I have purchased but haven't yet played.  No man's sky, Elite Dangerious, Skyrim VR (heavily modded), all three titles which appear to run substantially better with the 30 series.
     



    I know people are advising against the 3090 for just gaming because of mostly negligible gains, but this test did show SkyrimVR Fallout and NMS getting pretty decent boosts imho
    EDIT: Guess I"m not allowed to post links. 
    post edited by kjkPC - 2020/10/16 08:06:45
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    davtarazona
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    Re: Having real mixed feelings on 3090 XC3 Ultra - Any help making up my mind would be wel 2020/10/16 08:13:01 (permalink)
    kjkPC
    Poobah1972
    Mostly, I want to be able to up my VR capabilities... Valve index to be specific, particularly with hard to play titles that I have purchased but haven't yet played.  No man's sky, Elite Dangerious, Skyrim VR (heavily modded), all three titles which appear to run substantially better with the 30 series.
     



    I know people are advising against the 3090 for just gaming because of mostly negligible gains, but this test did show SkyrimVR Fallout and NMS getting pretty decent boosts imho
    EDIT: Guess I"m not allowed to post links. 




    I think you have to do it with the hyperlink option
     
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    buttabean
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    Re: Having real mixed feelings on 3090 XC3 Ultra - Any help making up my mind would be wel 2020/10/16 08:13:43 (permalink)
    hmm, that's a tough fit. It doesn't even look like a 3080fe would fit because of the width limitations. You'd have to leave the door off lol.
    Looks like the 3080ftw3 is too wide as well. Fractal shows max gpu width to be 44mm. 

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    Poobah1972
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    Re: Having real mixed feelings on 3090 XC3 Ultra - Any help making up my mind would be wel 2020/10/16 08:15:30 (permalink)
    kjkPC
     
    I know people are advising against the 3090 for just gaming because of mostly negligible gains, but this test did show SkyrimVR Fallout and NMS getting pretty decent boosts imho
    EDIT: Guess I"m not allowed to post links. 



    Agreed, and I'm all about VR performance where 3090 can have larger gains then typical 4k use cases.  So yes money is money, but were already at a point where there is a significant amount involved? whats another 800 bucks? etc.
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    kevinc313
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    Re: Having real mixed feelings on 3090 XC3 Ultra - Any help making up my mind would be wel 2020/10/16 08:15:42 (permalink)
    Get a 3090 Hybrid and give up your top CPU fan.
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    buttabean
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    Re: Having real mixed feelings on 3090 XC3 Ultra - Any help making up my mind would be wel 2020/10/16 08:19:34 (permalink)
    kevinc313
    Get a 3090 Hybrid and give up your top CPU fan.


    I don't think a hybrid will fit. I think they're going to be 360 rads

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    Poobah1972
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    Re: Having real mixed feelings on 3090 XC3 Ultra - Any help making up my mind would be wel 2020/10/16 08:35:04 (permalink)
    buttabean
    hmm, that's a tough fit. It doesn't even look like a 3080fe would fit because of the width limitations. You'd have to leave the door off lol.
    Looks like the 3080ftw3 is too wide as well. Fractal shows max gpu width to be 44mm. 



    FWI are definitely out of the question.  And true that's what Fractal claims, however they are just playing it safe.... I did this mock below... which tells me I could take at least 2.2 slots closer to 2.4 mabye.  Fractal also claimed the PNY card was to long, and PNY also claimed it was to long, yet there is centimeter to spare, so they were both wrong. (I think they were counting the length of the bracket as being in the case, which it isn't... So actual acceptable card length for this case is better then 320mm.)
     

     
     
     

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    kjkPC
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    Re: Having real mixed feelings on 3090 XC3 Ultra - Any help making up my mind would be wel 2020/10/16 08:41:05 (permalink)
    Poobah1972
     
     
    Agreed, and I'm all about VR performance where 3090 can have larger gains then typical 4k use cases.  So yes money is money, but were already at a point where there is a significant amount involved? whats another 800 bucks? etc.


    I bought SkyrimVR on sale a few months ago without having either a headset or a gaming PC, lol (mine has been repurposed as a work PC for WFH). 
    My intention is like yours I think-just build the best possible situation to maximize the experience. 
    (Edit: Also, I own a 1080Ti, and have had a $1,300 2080Ti in my Amazon wish list for almost a year, so just personally for me the 3090 price is not out of my limits)
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    Re: Having real mixed feelings on 3090 XC3 Ultra - Any help making up my mind would be wel 2020/10/16 08:41:18 (permalink)
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    Poobah1972
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    Re: Having real mixed feelings on 3090 XC3 Ultra - Any help making up my mind would be wel 2020/10/16 08:41:59 (permalink)
    kevinc313
    Get a 3090 Hybrid and give up your top CPU fan.




    This is an interesting option.. Again I'd need to reverse all fans, and expect higher temps on everything all round except the GPU... But I'm limited to a 240mm Rad (maybe 280, but I hear it's a tough fit in this case), and I'd definitely have to crunch all the numbers for clearances. etc.  I'd also be expelling hot air straight from my CPU rad into the GPU rad, so I don't know how painful that might be?  This would be a rather expensive experiment if it doesn't work.  Maybe someone has good experience with such a setup?  (and yes the Kingpin needs a 360... boo)
    post edited by Poobah1972 - 2020/10/16 08:57:21
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    kevinc313
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    Re: Having real mixed feelings on 3090 XC3 Ultra - Any help making up my mind would be wel 2020/10/16 08:53:39 (permalink)
    Poobah1972
    kevinc313
    Get a 3090 Hybrid and give up your top CPU fan.




    This is an interesting option.. Again I'd need to reverse all fans, and expect higher temps on everything all round except the GPU... But I'm limited to a 240mm Rad (maybe 280, but I hear it's a tough fit in this case), and I'd definitely have to do a lot have to crunch all the numbers for clearances. etc.  I'd also be expelling hot air straight from my CPU rad into the GPU rad, so I don't know how painful that might be?  This would be a rather expensive experiment if it doesn't work.  Maybe someone has good experience with such a setup?


     
    It's a 240mm rad.
     
    I crammed a 120mm CLC and 120mm Hybrid rad into my 4U rack case with push pull fans, after some careful measuring.  
     
    Honestly though, I'd just go 3080 FTW3 with a waterblock and CPU loop, should be fine with a single 280mm by 30mm to 50mm thick rad and push pull fans, small DDC pump/res.
    post edited by kevinc313 - 2020/10/16 08:58:51
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    Cool GTX
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    Re: Having real mixed feelings on 3090 XC3 Ultra - Any help making up my mind would be wel 2020/10/16 08:58:40 (permalink)
    kjkPC
    Poobah1972
    Mostly, I want to be able to up my VR capabilities... Valve index to be specific, particularly with hard to play titles that I have purchased but haven't yet played.  No man's sky, Elite Dangerious, Skyrim VR (heavily modded), all three titles which appear to run substantially better with the 30 series.
     



    I know people are advising against the 3090 for just gaming because of mostly negligible gains, but this test did show SkyrimVR Fallout and NMS getting pretty decent boosts imho
    EDIT: Guess I"m not allowed to post links. 




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    Cool GTX
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    Re: Having real mixed feelings on 3090 XC3 Ultra - Any help making up my mind would be wel 2020/10/16 09:01:20 (permalink)
    That is a tiny case & cooling will be a challenge with a high Watt GPU
     
    Plan on cutting some holes in the side panel for intake of room temp air ?

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    Poobah1972
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    Re: Having real mixed feelings on 3090 XC3 Ultra - Any help making up my mind would be wel 2020/10/16 09:19:42 (permalink)
    Cool GTX
    That is a tiny case & cooling will be a challenge with a high Watt GPU
     
    Plan on cutting some holes in the side panel for intake of room temp air ?



    Agreed, but as far as small cases go, the GPU is sitting right beside very well ventilated side panel.  (One of the pluses for this particular case).
     

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    kevinc313
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    Re: Having real mixed feelings on 3090 XC3 Ultra - Any help making up my mind would be wel 2020/10/16 10:09:19 (permalink)
    Poobah1972
    Cool GTX
    That is a tiny case & cooling will be a challenge with a high Watt GPU
     
    Plan on cutting some holes in the side panel for intake of room temp air ?



    Agreed, but as far as small cases go, the GPU is sitting right beside very well ventilated side panel.  (One of the pluses for this particular case).
     





    Yeah I saw that.  I'd install foam around where the GPU fans interface with those vent holes, so the GPU only pulls air from outside the case.  Might improve by a few degrees, or as much as 10C.
    #23
    Poobah1972
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    Re: Having real mixed feelings on 3090 XC3 Ultra - Any help making up my mind would be wel 2020/10/16 10:37:00 (permalink)
    kevinc313
    It's a 240mm rad.
     
    I crammed a 120mm CLC and 120mm Hybrid rad into my 4U rack case with push pull fans, after some careful measuring.  
     
    Honestly though, I'd just go 3080 FTW3 with a waterblock and CPU loop, should be fine with a single 280mm by 30mm to 50mm thick rad and push pull fans, small DDC pump/res.



    Just did some checking...  Kingpin is 360, however it looks like the 3090 FTW3 hybrid will have 240mm rad and a 2 slot blower (I'd need to confirm that)... It should fit and would definitely be one of the coolest choices as far as all round case/gpu temps.  I'm just not sure how the CPU rad expelling directly into one half of the 240 GPU rad's fan will effect the GPU temps (I assume it will work, just not as well).  I have no experience with water, but it's a closed system so it should be pretty basic?  Looks like the rad will also need to be less then 35mm give or take (so need to confirm that too).
     
    So I could get the 3090 xc3 (Undervolt it and just enjoy it even with less then stock performance)... Then within 3 months, upgrade to the 3090 FTW3 Hybrid and hope my 800 Titanium PSU can handle it (Probably can...).  However if the 3090 FTW3 hybrid turns out to be 360 or It just doesn't work well then I'm really pooched...
     
    Ah crap, I tell ya.
    #24
    Poobah1972
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    Re: Having real mixed feelings on 3090 XC3 Ultra - Any help making up my mind would be wel 2020/10/16 10:40:46 (permalink)
    kevinc313
     
    Yeah I saw that.  I'd install foam around where the GPU fans interface with those vent holes, so the GPU only pulls air from outside the case.  Might improve by a few degrees, or as much as 10C.



    That's funny, I thought about doing that since before I originally built it for the same reason's.  And I've been thinking about it for this as well.  But when I suggested it to friends they thought I was daft, and I couldn't really find any examples of people doing it online.  Seems to make sense in my mind though?  Do you know anyone that has actually done this to good effect?
     
    EDIT: What I should do is test this with my current card and see... If it does make a significant difference (5 degree's or better), that might make the difference moving to a 3090.  Very much worth confirming at least.
    post edited by Poobah1972 - 2020/10/16 10:46:22
    #25
    Cool GTX
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    Re: Having real mixed feelings on 3090 XC3 Ultra - Any help making up my mind would be wel 2020/10/16 11:06:09 (permalink)
    "ducting" room air In & exhaust hot air out of the case would be a test worth doing
     
    even an extra fan blowing on the backplate could help as they tend to get kind of warm

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    #26
    davtarazona
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    Re: Having real mixed feelings on 3090 XC3 Ultra - Any help making up my mind would be wel 2020/10/17 14:30:32 (permalink)
    Another option could be buying a PCI-E Extender and placing the GPU outside your case or buy a gpu enclousure
    #27
    eldub0844
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    Re: Having real mixed feelings on 3090 XC3 Ultra - Any help making up my mind would be wel 2020/10/18 06:24:54 (permalink)
    At first, I was anxious to get either 3080 or 3090, still happily running a 2080Ti FTW water cooled with NO issues. I wouldn't be happy with any blower cards so my ONLY options are to wait for the Hydro Copper or Kingpin cards to come. Meanwhile, I continue to READ and educate myself, and hopefully stock AND all other issues will be all be worked out!
    #28
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