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Helpful ReplyHot!Had enough of foldingforum!

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ProDigit
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2020/01/14 15:16:54 (permalink)
While I always believe in second chances,
When you're specifically been told, that your input isn't valuable;
The admins say you say things that you really haven't said anywhere,
and they say they're better off without you, 
Then I think it's time to leave the folding forum.
 
I truly tried, but Bruce, ToTow, Joe_H, and possibly rafwiewiora,
All the same person!
Then they accused me of having a second account on their forum, Ha!
 
While I'll still be here, they truly have done what no company should ever do to people that are helping out THEM!
They don't see that thousands of people are leaving annually, because of THEIR behavior!
Then they ask for feedback and involvement, but when you do, your posts get locked, and stuff like that...

Byebye Folding forum!
Figure it out yourselves!
My next project will be Boinc.
At least the admins are reasonable there!
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notfordman
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Re: Had enough of foldingforum! 2020/01/14 16:29:30 (permalink)
Sorry that's your's and many others experience there. It is not worth the headache. It's not right, but that's what it is....
Just say NO! That's why I, don't bother there. 
#2
Cool GTX
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Re: Had enough of foldingforum! 2020/01/14 17:55:35 (permalink)
Not the first time I've seen that type of experience in the [Stanford] forums
 
... why I've never joined their Forum
 
I go from time to time to read up on things ... get the official answer
 

RTX Project EVGA X99 FTWK-5930K@4.8GHz 2xEVGA2080Ti EVGA-1200P2  Nibbler EVGA X99 Classified-5960X@4.5GHz 3-GPU Water Loop 1600P2 
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Opolis
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Re: Had enough of foldingforum! 2020/01/14 18:56:55 (permalink)
Experiences like yours with FAH forum was a huge reason a lot of us decided to shift our efforts toward crunching@EVGA.

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bill1024
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Re: Had enough of foldingforum! 2020/01/15 10:18:50 (permalink)
ProDigit
While I always believe in second chances,
When you're specifically been told, that your input isn't valuable;
The admins say you say things that you really haven't said anywhere,
and they say they're better off without you, 
Then I think it's time to leave the folding forum.
 
I truly tried, but Bruce, ToTow, Joe_H, and possibly rafwiewiora,
All the same person!
Then they accused me of having a second account on their forum, Ha!
 
While I'll still be here, they truly have done what no company should ever do to people that are helping out THEM!
They don't see that thousands of people are leaving annually, because of THEIR behavior!
Then they ask for feedback and involvement, but when you do, your posts get locked, and stuff like that...

Byebye Folding forum!
Figure it out yourselves!
My next project will be Boinc.
At least the admins are reasonable there!




I learned that 14 years ago, nothing has changed. SOS, just some new flies.
 
What name do you use over there at the folding forum?
Link to threads they locked and said all of that.

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#5
ipkha
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Re: Had enough of foldingforum! 2020/01/15 10:29:49 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Cool GTX 2020/01/15 10:45:04
Stanford doesn't really care that much about the client software. Their main focus is the behind the scenes development of new cores and OpenMP. There is plenty of evidence of neglect. Their linux client soon won't actually be install able shortly as new distributions don't ship the dependencies needed.
For instance there is no indication I durring client installation that you need python bindings for OpenCL. But it can't fold on GPUs without it. You need python bindings for gtk2/gnome2 for the control program while python2 is eol and gnome is moved to version 3. Of course they could po it the same functionality into the web control page but choose not to. If they actually cared they could open up the development process to other developers and get free contributions.

As to the forum, it is s good source of info. And a terrible place to get help. Bruce is ill equipped to deal with things and acts more like 1st tier tech support from Comcast.


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Cool GTX
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Re: Had enough of foldingforum! 2020/01/15 10:45:00 (permalink)
ipkha
Stanford doesn't really care that much about the client software. Their main focus is the behind the scenes development of new cores and OpenMP. There is plenty of evidence of neglect. Their linux client soon won't actually be install able shortly as new distributions don't ship the dependencies needed.
For instance there is no indication I durring client installation that you need python bindings for OpenCL. But it can't fold on GPUs without it. You need python bindings for gtk2/gnome2 for the control program while python2 is eol and gnome is moved to version 3. Of course they could po it the same functionality into the web control page but choose not to. If they actually cared they could open up the development process to other developers and get free contributions.

As to the forum, it is s good source of info. And a terrible place to get help. Bruce is ill equipped to deal with things and acts more like 1st tier tech support from Comcast.



 
That is some VERY useful information about Linux ....
 
Maybe make a post int one of the Linux guides ?

RTX Project EVGA X99 FTWK-5930K@4.8GHz 2xEVGA2080Ti EVGA-1200P2  Nibbler EVGA X99 Classified-5960X@4.5GHz 3-GPU Water Loop 1600P2 
AIO Folding  X99 2x1080Ti FTW3 Hybrid, 1200P
Thank You for Your Support


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ProDigit
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Re: Had enough of foldingforum! 2020/01/15 22:20:11 (permalink)
We all knew the last Linux that works is 18.04, or Debian 9 or 10 or so.
Support for that os gets discontinued on April 2023, so we still get some time.
But in the meantime, support for 18.10 has discontinued,
19.04 lacks the python dependencies, as python 2 is discontinued.
I'm expecting FAH to find a solution when Ubuntu 20.04 comes out, since this is the next LTS (long term support).
Python isn't the only problem,
Ubuntu 19.04 forces the nouveau drivers on you, for an easier out of the box experience with the OS, but it cripples the Nvidia driver installation.
Multi Nvidia GPU setups can no longer adjust fan, power, voltage, or GPU overclock without crashing the desktop. The issue lies in enabling all GPUs. Without this feature, only 1 GPU can be overclocked or adjusted,but the others don't.
 
It's a real pity, because 19.04 to 20.04 use SDDM desktop, which not only looks gorgeous, but also uses less resources than lightdm (lxde).
post edited by ProDigit - 2020/01/15 22:21:52
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bill1024
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Re: Had enough of foldingforum! 2020/01/15 23:36:20 (permalink)
What name do you use at the folding forum? 
Link to locked threads. I have some free time and can use a good laugh.

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ipkha
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Re: Had enough of foldingforum! 2020/01/16 09:46:23 (permalink)
Installing the Nvidia driver package from any distribution removes the nouveau one. Currently 20.04 will or is planned ship with the Nvidia driver during setup to avoid changing drivers later. Nvidia had to change some if their rule to permit Ubuntu and other to distribute their driver.
I don't expect them to update their software anytime soon. They have made the choice to out the bulk of funding into the cores and projects with little reserved for infrastructure. They won't upgrade it until they have to.


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ProDigit
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Re: Had enough of foldingforum! 2020/01/16 10:59:44 (permalink)
The Nvidia drivers work from the Deb archive just fine on one GPU.
But for multi GPUs (with overclocking) you always had to rely on the .run files, which have issues installing.
And if you can install them (I have been unsuccessful so far), you're going to end up with the same issues (desktop crashes when multi GPUs are enabled for overclocking/powercapping/enabling of fan curve).
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bill1024
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Re: Had enough of foldingforum! 2020/01/16 11:33:17 (permalink)
What name do you use there? If it is prodigit , last visited:February 8th, 2019, 6:05 am.
https://foldingforum.org/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=27754
 
Is that the right forum?
Link to locked threads, I do not see many recently locked threads with that name.
Have another name there? 

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#12
ProDigit
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Re: Had enough of foldingforum! 2020/01/18 01:25:33 (permalink)
In light of recent events, I decided to halve my support for FAH.
I'm hitting nearly 20Mil per day, it's going to go down to 10 Mil. And I'll dedicate my second server to Boinc instead.
I'm in the top 125 of the world rank, within 1 year, so I guess I've done well enough.
It would have taken me another year to be in the top 50, but the competitiveness is off (since I'm already running the fastest hardware, on whatever my power socket can supply).

Done some calculations, and with Core 22 I've got enough points and power draw, to justify only 1 PC; and the second one I can run at lower power settings to Boinc (I can run 4 GPUs at lower settings for Boinc, instead of 3 on core 22).
post edited by ProDigit - 2020/01/18 01:28:19
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bcavnaugh
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Re: Had enough of foldingforum! 2020/01/18 07:24:16 (permalink)
ProDigit
In light of recent events, I decided to halve my support for FAH.
I'm hitting nearly 20Mil per day, it's going to go down to 10 Mil. And I'll dedicate my second server to Boinc instead.
I'm in the top 125 of the world rank, within 1 year, so I guess I've done well enough.
It would have taken me another year to be in the top 50, but the competitiveness is off (since I'm already running the fastest hardware, on whatever my power socket can supply).

Done some calculations, and with Core 22 I've got enough points and power draw, to justify only 1 PC; and the second one I can run at lower power settings to Boinc (I can run 4 GPUs at lower settings for Boinc, instead of 3 on core 22).

That is Stupid basing your drop in Folding because of their Separate Support Forum, what has their Forum got to do with Finding a Cure?
Your Goals seem to be based on only Low Power & Higher Points over Helping to Find Cures and Moving Science Forward. And that is OK if that is what you want.
You are volunteering your resources you are not a paying customer. "You are only One in a Million"
Their Support Forum has been and is known for many years now to be a problem and not worth the effort to bother with.
Yours Truly, Bruce
post edited by bcavnaugh - 2020/01/18 11:36:02

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#14
Cool GTX
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Re: Had enough of foldingforum! 2020/01/18 12:23:10 (permalink)
@ ProDigit
 
We all Fold for our own reasons & have our own constraints
 
Thank You for your Support in Helping to Find a Cure
 
Do what you can & hopefully have some fun with it along the way
 
I'm Folding @ Warp speed for Family reasons .. I cant do anything to change the outcome - but I can Fold My Best till then

RTX Project EVGA X99 FTWK-5930K@4.8GHz 2xEVGA2080Ti EVGA-1200P2  Nibbler EVGA X99 Classified-5960X@4.5GHz 3-GPU Water Loop 1600P2 
AIO Folding  X99 2x1080Ti FTW3 Hybrid, 1200P
Thank You for Your Support


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ProDigit
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Re: Had enough of foldingforum! 2020/01/18 12:31:15 (permalink)
bcavnaugh
ProDigit
In light of recent events, I decided to halve my support for FAH.
I'm hitting nearly 20Mil per day, it's going to go down to 10 Mil. And I'll dedicate my second server to Boinc instead.
I'm in the top 125 of the world rank, within 1 year, so I guess I've done well enough.
It would have taken me another year to be in the top 50, but the competitiveness is off (since I'm already running the fastest hardware, on whatever my power socket can supply).

Done some calculations, and with Core 22 I've got enough points and power draw, to justify only 1 PC; and the second one I can run at lower power settings to Boinc (I can run 4 GPUs at lower settings for Boinc, instead of 3 on core 22).

That is Stupid basing your drop in Folding because of their Separate Support Forum, what has their Forum got to do with Finding a Cure?
Your Goals seem to be based on only Low Power & Higher Points over Helping to Find Cures and Moving Science Forward. And that is OK if that is what you want.
You are volunteering your resources you are not a paying customer. "You are only One in a Million"
Their Support Forum has been and is known for many years now to be a problem and not worth the effort to bother with.
Yours Truly, Bruce


Well, it's not like science stops from here on.
I think I can donate to diversity. I'm still donating resources to fah, albeit less. And boinc in every way, is donating to a cause at least as honorable, but with more diversity to choose from.
I think a lousy forum support should definitely be a reason not to support a good cause. By their own words, they don't need me, so I'm pulling out.
It's healthy to donate to variety. There's absolutely no proof that fah is in any way superior or better than boinc, just because they have slightly better resources, and offer much more bonus points than Boinc.
Boinc does similar things, as well as supports a variety of causes that also need supporting. I think of it like the AMD of Intel, the underdog in protein folding.
And some healthy competition can only breed better results.
Besides, if their point system isn't adjusted soon, all billions of points contributed today, will be worthless in 5 years, when newer, faster products hit the market, and most points collected are qrb rather than actual work.
Kind of like how CPU folding points of the past 10 years couldn't even begin to compare to today's mid range GPU PPDs.
 
Boinc, aside from amicable numbers, has no such problem. Points scale more evenly, and are based (for nearly all projects) on contributed tops rather than qrb.
So it's not the points I'm after...
 
I think there should be a clear message to support sites that treat their members unfair or unjustly.
Few people are verbal over it, but I think the message should be clear and concise!
That customer relations matter!
And if they are trampled upon, people will leave, including people with high potential.
It's only right to do so. And perhaps fah can invest in some more customer friendly staff for a social media platform, like a forum, and don't treat it like a Wikipage. It's a platform where people should be allowed to learn with mistakes, not where every person who  made an error, is bashed down.
 
Besides that, boinc runs many projects in half precision, which more than doubles performance, at the cost of slightly lower precision.
In many cases, FAH is wasted cycles, running in SP or DP.
Many issues can be found with 80-90% success ratios, in half precision. The method is just much more efficient than fah.
 
FAHs method is very precise, and in most cases 'unnecessarily precise'.
post edited by ProDigit - 2020/01/18 12:40:59
#16
ProDigit
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Re: Had enough of foldingforum! 2020/01/18 12:51:49 (permalink)
Cool GTX
@ ProDigit
 
We all Fold for our own reasons & have our own constraints
 
Thank You for your Support in Helping to Find a Cure
 
Do what you can & hopefully have some fun with it along the way
 
I'm Folding @ Warp speed for Family reasons .. I cant do anything to change the outcome - but I can Fold My Best till then


I understand,
Sadly, by their own words, your work today may, or may not be picked up by students in your own lifetime.
This was the issue before 2019, and with the introduction to faster hardware, definitely is the issue after 2019.
The overall amount of work done has increased by a factor of two in just one year, and PPDs by a factor of 7. That seems to be the average current ratio right now (7x PPD for 2x the amount of work).
 
Boinc has a French company called QuChemPedIA: https://quchempedia.univ-angers.fr/athome/
They basically research ways not only to more efficiently crunch through data, but also more efficiently process the results or processed data, since there seems to be a shortage of scientists studying the results of data crunching.
It's a project that currently only uses CPU, but definitely worth looking into!
 
 
rescued from overactive Spam filter by Cool GTX
post edited by Cool GTX - 2020/01/18 13:50:21
#17
ProDigit
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Re: Had enough of foldingforum! 2020/01/18 13:02:57 (permalink)
Ok, I tried twice to reply, but my responses are all removed...
 
#18
Cool GTX
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Re: Had enough of foldingforum! 2020/01/18 13:51:10 (permalink)
ProDigit
Ok, I tried twice to reply, but my responses are all removed...
 


I recovered your Post from Spam Filter .. it gets over sensitive sometimes

RTX Project EVGA X99 FTWK-5930K@4.8GHz 2xEVGA2080Ti EVGA-1200P2  Nibbler EVGA X99 Classified-5960X@4.5GHz 3-GPU Water Loop 1600P2 
AIO Folding  X99 2x1080Ti FTW3 Hybrid, 1200P
Thank You for Your Support


#19
bill1024
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Re: Had enough of foldingforum! 2020/01/18 15:24:34 (permalink)
Points are already meaningless, 500000000000000 points and 5$ still will only get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.
Go back 13, 14 years ago when you had to fold a WU for a few days to get 35 points. Then SMP came, 7 day tasks for 1000 points.
Hope to heck you did not have an issue 5 days into the WU, or it hangs after 7 days and gets lost, it happened.
Go look at the milestones on the EOC stats, 1000 points is the first milestone, kind of meaningless today huh..
 
Hardware is going to get faster as time goes on and points will increase the same as always.
Stanford wants their WUs turned in as fast a possible, the faster the return the more work you are doing.
Fact, no getting out of it. Slower systems take longer and do less work and get less points. Not hard to understand.
 
There really is no need to ever go to their forums, too many teams with forums to get help at.
Stanford's forum is no nonsense straight to the point. They don't want to be told how to run their show. 
They been doing it a ling time and know what they are doing and know what they want to do.
 
BONC is not all peaches and cream, couple project admins are never around and never reply to people in their forums.
Other projects are run on old servers and can not handle any real load during challenges and want no part of that.
 
I still do not see where they said anything bad to you/locked thread, since you have not posted in their forums in about a year.
 
 
 

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#20
cine.chris
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Re: Had enough of foldingforum! 2020/05/27 12:26:37 (permalink)
@ProDigit
Yes, 'they' need some adult supervision &/or counseling. 
Projects, in-general, like FAH, I'm always hesitant to peek behind the curtain as I'd often rather not know.
I 'peeked' twice, not likely to be a 3rd.
==========
Also, thx for your long architecture post, it's been helpful, especially the use of power-capping to stabilize and manage power consumption.
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Cool GTX
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Re: Had enough of foldingforum! 2020/05/27 12:35:06 (permalink)
cine.chris
@ProDigit
Yes, 'they' need some adult supervision &/or counseling. 
Projects, in-general, like FAH, I'm always hesitant to peek behind the curtain as I'd often rather not know.
I 'peeked' twice, not likely to be a 3rd.
==========
Also, thx for your long architecture post, it's been helpful, especially the use of power-capping to stabilize and manage power consumption.




Sorry for the delay -- had to release your post from filter
 
These type of posts are why I have never joined FaH Forums ....
 
From time to time I look to see if others are reporting the same issue

RTX Project EVGA X99 FTWK-5930K@4.8GHz 2xEVGA2080Ti EVGA-1200P2  Nibbler EVGA X99 Classified-5960X@4.5GHz 3-GPU Water Loop 1600P2 
AIO Folding  X99 2x1080Ti FTW3 Hybrid, 1200P
Thank You for Your Support


#22
ProDigit
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Re: Had enough of foldingforum! 2020/05/28 07:42:39 (permalink)
They have a new moderator there, who is more 'humane'. PantherX.
Much more people friendly. Highly needed on that forum.
 
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