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Helpful ReplyGTX 460 and power cable issue

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pollychroma
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2011/07/07 20:19:09 (permalink)
Hello good peoples,
This is my first post here, I am not experienced with building systems or truly tech-savvy like many of you here, but am experiencing a quandry that I hope someone can help me with.
 
I have just gotten a Dell Precision Workstation 490 with a 750w power supply (yes, I'm upgrading the ram), and ordered an EVGA GeForce GTX 460 1gb to upgrade from an old ATI FireGL card (that came with the system). I have not even fired up the machine as I am waiting for a dvi-i cable to be able to connect it to my monitor.
 
The issue that I have is that the power supply that came with the system (specs here) has only one 6-pin pci-e power supply cable, and the GTX 460 requires two. I found this thread in the 200 series area, and read it, however, I do not know what a 'dedicated +12v rail' is or if I even have one? The adapter that another poster mentioned is no longer available so I don't know what that was or if it even applies in my case. In the case that I do not have a dedicated rail, what are my actual options?
 
Being that I am on a rather low, fixed budget, getting a different power supply is financially not an viable option for me at the moment, so I am thinking that some kind of 'splitter' for the pci-e cable may be the way to go, since the power supply can more than adequately deal with the power needs of the card and other peripherals. I understand the hose and fire hydrant analogy, but is the idea of a splitter total nonsense or logical/semi-logical or even doable? (please be gentle with me  I'm new and trying really hard to understand and learn more)
 
I really need this card as it is CUDA ready and I use 3ds Max '12... so I bought this machine and am customising it for this particular purpose (and CS5 suite purposes as well). What can I do to make this work for me?
 
Any and all assistance is greatly and humbly appreciated and accepted.

Not a gamer, but a digital artist and 3d modeler, eccentric and all-around moonbat.
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8gb Qimonda PC2-5300 fb ecc
EVGA GeForce GTX460
 
#1
Simba123
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Re:GTX 460 and power cable issue 2011/07/07 21:05:24 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
all power units have a 12v rail. it's basically the part of the power unit that supplies the 12v DC power to your computer.  some have multiple 'rails' some have only 1.
You'll need to pull your case off and have a look at the power unit. on it there should be a sticker giving the power units details.
As for the power cable, you just need to go to any PC store and buy a molex to 6 pin converter
like this
 
I will note that Dell power supplies are notorious for being rubbish. So while technically it should run your system, don't expect it to last very long.
 


 
 
  
                               
 
#2
Simba123
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Re:GTX 460 and power cable issue 2011/07/07 21:10:27 (permalink)
Are you sure there is only 1 6 pin connector?
according to the specs for that power supply that I found there should be two. Not that it really matter as Dell chop and change their components to whatever they can find the cheapest all the time, plus looking at that link you are buying a second hand/refurbished product, so definitely do not expect much life out of that power supply.



 
 
  
                               
 
#3
pollychroma
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Re:GTX 460 and power cable issue 2011/07/07 22:13:23 (permalink)
Simba123, thank you for your quick reply.
I'm not actually buying that power supply unit separately, but the link I gave is actually the one in the machine, and the cables are labeled exactly as it is shown on the specs (P1-P5). The PCI-E 6-pin cable is labeled P5, and there is only one, I have checked for sure.
 
It is funny that you linked to that molex to 6-pin converter - I actually bought two of those from NewEgg!!  I am, however at an utter loss as to where to plug the two 4-pin ends into whatever it should be plugged into.
 
That is actually the crux of my quandry.
 
On the top of the power supply that came installed it says the following:
+12vA - 18.0A
+12VB - 18.0A
+12VC - 18.0A
+12VD - 18.0A
+5V - 16.0A
-12V - 0.2A
+3.3V - 30.0A
+5VFP - 3.0A
Max combined power on +5V and +3.3V output is 150S
Max combined output power on +12VA, +12VB, +12VC, +12VD output is 700W
+5V & +3.3V (Chinese here) 150W +12VA, +12VB, +12VC, +12VD  (more Chinese) 700W
 
Here is a link to, and photo of the motherboard (GU083) that is in the machine.

I don't see where I would plug those 4-pin molex anywhere?
post edited by pollychroma - 2011/07/07 22:15:28

Not a gamer, but a digital artist and 3d modeler, eccentric and all-around moonbat.
___________________________
Dell Precision Workstation 490
8gb Qimonda PC2-5300 fb ecc
EVGA GeForce GTX460
 
#4
kaninja
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Re:GTX 460 and power cable issue 2011/07/07 22:40:41 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
No molex and only 1 6-pin PCI connector makes it tough.  You could just start splicing connectors, but maybe it's time to upgrade the power supply.
 
It's not even an ATX power supply which makes it much more difficult.  OEM'd by Delta for Dell.
 
Lets see what we can figure out.....................
 
What connectors if any are unused coming off the PSU?
 
Edit:
 
Although a last resort you may have to daisy chain off the original 6-pin PCI-E connector.  I have done this in the past a couple of times with success using a molex to 6-pin PCI-E connector like the one you linked.  Some companies like Antec and Corsair daisy chain their connectors as well.
post edited by kaninja - 2011/07/07 23:00:22

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Simba123
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Re:GTX 460 and power cable issue 2011/07/08 02:12:22 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
Ah, I see where you are getting confused.  When you get the graphics card, you will see that on the end of the card there are actually two 6 pin power plugs on the actual graphics card itself.
 
That's gonna be a complete **** getting it installed.  You'll have to make sure that you use 2 separate 12v rails as they are only rated to  18a each and any 460 card need 24A, so you'll need to spread the load over 2 rails or the system won't work at all.
 
did the 460 come in a box? you should have all the adapters etc in there if it did.
 
  edit - this is what you are looking for on the end of the card - the 2 6 pin connectors are on the right,

post edited by Simba123 - 2011/07/08 02:16:17


 
 
  
                               
 
#6
kaninja
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Re:GTX 460 and power cable issue 2011/07/08 06:23:14 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
Gtx460 does not require 24 amps. One 18 amp rail will easily power this card.

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contrvlr
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Re:GTX 460 and power cable issue 2011/07/08 06:46:24 (permalink)
Simba123


I will note that Dell power supplies are notorious for being rubbish. So while technically it should run your system, don't expect it to last very long.

Only to those who just don't know any better


P6X58D Premium  | I7-930 @ 3.8 | GTX570HD 
WD Black 640 | 6x2 OCZ Gold  
a power supply 







#8
pollychroma
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Re:GTX 460 and power cable issue 2011/07/08 07:55:14 (permalink)
Hi Kaninja, thank you very much for your reply.
 
The only cables that are not being used are two SATA connectors and one 6-pin PCI-E connector.
 
When you said "daisy chain"  do you mean using the splitter?

Not a gamer, but a digital artist and 3d modeler, eccentric and all-around moonbat.
___________________________
Dell Precision Workstation 490
8gb Qimonda PC2-5300 fb ecc
EVGA GeForce GTX460
 
#9
kaninja
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Re:GTX 460 and power cable issue 2011/07/08 09:19:46 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
pollychroma

Hi Kaninja, thank you very much for your reply.

The only cables that are not being used are two SATA connectors and one 6-pin PCI-E connector.

When you said "daisy chain"  do you mean using the splitter?


Yes, in your case I would recommend a PCI-E 6-pin to 2 x PCI-E 6-pin splitter.
 
Something like this will work for you and is fairly cheap: http://www.amazon.com/APEVIA-PCI-splitter-Express-converter/dp/B003F6SD9G
 
If you have trouble finding one in stock let me know.  I saw one at a local shop a couple of weeks ago.
This is the one I saw: http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=35497&vpn=CB%2D6M%2D68F2&manufacture=Works
post edited by kaninja - 2011/07/08 09:23:52

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pollychroma
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Re:GTX 460 and power cable issue 2011/07/08 10:41:14 (permalink)
Hi Simba123, thank you for your reply.
I can see where the two 6-pin PCI-E connectors fit into the card itself, I just can't see where any molex (the 4-pin) would plug into anything? But I think I don't have anything to plug that end of the adapter into, actually.
 
And regarding the manufacturer's recommendations regarding power supply for this card:
Requirements
Minimum of a 450 Watt power supply.
(Minimum recommended power supply with +12 Volt current rating of 24 Amps.)
 
 Two available 6-pin PCI-E power dongles

 
Now, whether it can physically run on 18.0A is another matter :) Again, I'm not a gamer, just a modeler so I don't know if that makes any difference or not.
 
So that leaves me with two options (as I see it, and I may be wrong, being basically ignorant but trying to learn):
a) use a 6-pin PCI-E splitter and underpower it
b) get a different power supply unit
 
Trying to do some homework (and learn), I've looked at some PSUs that have the same amount of power (750w). Now, I know all you gamers would use a much better PSU, and I understand why, but these are what I can afford (not really, but c'est la guerre!) - child and I do have to eat the rest of the month  :
 
Diablotek PHD750 Power Supply - 750W, ATX, Black (new, 1-yr warranty)
slightly different, the 3.3V - 24A (current one is 30A), but the +12V is 21A (vs current one @ 18.0A) and the 5V is 25A (vs. 16.0A on current one) Not sure if this makes a big difference, i.e., would fry something resulting in me weeping and wailing and cursing a lot
 
Ultra Lifetime Series Pro 750W ATX12V & EPS12V Power Supply (new, lifetime warranty)
again, slightly different: +3.3v - 28A (vs 30A on current one), +5V - 32A (vs current on @ 16.0A), +12V1 - 45A (vs. 18.0A on current one), -12V - 0.6A (vs. 0.2A on current one) and finally +5VSB - 2A (vs the current 5VFP @ 3.0A)
I'm not sure what those differences are, specifically and if they would over or underpower anything and again fry stuff and cause me to weep and turn the air blue, causing more grey hairs on my head and child to start talking like Mommy does when she gets really mad
 
I'm looking at some other ones on NewEgg, even considering a 700W or even 650W, though if I can do the PCI-E splitter, we'll definitely eat better :D

Not a gamer, but a digital artist and 3d modeler, eccentric and all-around moonbat.
___________________________
Dell Precision Workstation 490
8gb Qimonda PC2-5300 fb ecc
EVGA GeForce GTX460
 
#11
pollychroma
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Re:GTX 460 and power cable issue 2011/07/08 10:44:11 (permalink)
Ooooh! I can do that! Upside? The menu would feature more than PB&J  AND I get to actually use this new machine.
 
Thanks, Kaninja!

Not a gamer, but a digital artist and 3d modeler, eccentric and all-around moonbat.
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Dell Precision Workstation 490
8gb Qimonda PC2-5300 fb ecc
EVGA GeForce GTX460
 
#12
kaninja
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Re:GTX 460 and power cable issue 2011/07/08 12:28:14 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
Hey Pollychroma,
 
Glad to help.  As for the 24A requirement, that is for the entire system using a GTX460......not the GTX460 itself.  A GTX460 has a low power consumption and requires no more than 14A to run....especially for what you will be using it for.  Your power supply will be more than sufficient.
 
24A would be 288W.  No way no how would a GTX460 ever consume that much power.  165W would be about max for your card.  You are good to go!!

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Simba123
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Re:GTX 460 and power cable issue 2011/07/08 16:43:04 (permalink)
contrvlr

Simba123


I will note that Dell power supplies are notorious for being rubbish. So while technically it should run your system, don't expect it to last very long.

Only to those who just don't know any better

Well I guess it all comes down to personal experience doesn't it? In MY experience, Dell power supplies have been rubbish, compounded by the fact that often Dell puts the absolute minimum in their systems so they are almost always running full tilt leading to short lifetimes; and no leeway for upgrading components.
Now, some people may have had totally the opposite experience.  I have not, and regularly have to replace Dell PSUs' way earlier than they should be.


 
 
  
                               
 
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contrvlr
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Re:GTX 460 and power cable issue 2011/07/09 05:12:26 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
Simba123

contrvlr

Simba123


I will note that Dell power supplies are notorious for being rubbish. So while technically it should run your system, don't expect it to last very long.

Only to those who just don't know any better

Well I guess it all comes down to personal experience doesn't it? In MY experience, Dell power supplies have been rubbish, compounded by the fact that often Dell puts the absolute minimum in their systems so they are almost always running full tilt leading to short lifetimes; and no leeway for upgrading components.
Now, some people may have had totally the opposite experience.  I have not, and regularly have to replace Dell PSUs' way earlier than they should be.
Yup.
My experience has seen way more dead Dell motherboards than power supplies.
I keep a pair of 6 year old Dell 375 watt psu's around for testing
GTX 460 on a Dell 375, 315w from the wall running Furmark 

SLI 8800 GTS 512 on a modifed Dell 375, 380w from the wall

 
Doesn't really matter, the OP has a 750 watt Delta built psu, the idea that it might not power a single GTX 460 for an extended period of time is silly

P6X58D Premium  | I7-930 @ 3.8 | GTX570HD 
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pollychroma
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Re:GTX 460 and power cable issue 2011/07/09 09:08:08 (permalink)
Simba123, Contrlvr, and Kaninja, thank you so much for the input and information in a way that I can understand.
 
All of this is very good go know. At least for now I can use the PCI-E splitter, and in the future if/when the PSU should fail, I can get another (non-Dell) semi-modular one with a 120mm fan (vs the 80mm fan in the Dell PSU) which I can only imagine would help. I don't plan on running in SLI anytime soon (in fact, the mobo does not have another PCI-E 2.0 x16 lol) so I think one will be okay for what I want/need to do. At least for now... until techlust sets in.... or necessity requires something different.
 
And holy moonbat guano, Contrlvr!! That is a monster you have there!! 

Not a gamer, but a digital artist and 3d modeler, eccentric and all-around moonbat.
___________________________
Dell Precision Workstation 490
8gb Qimonda PC2-5300 fb ecc
EVGA GeForce GTX460
 
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