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Hot!For all the "crypto is dying!!!! Cards will be at MSRP soon."

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Jstandaert
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2021/07/26 08:35:05 (permalink)
Not sure if this is directly related to 30-series cards. I just know the fight is centralized as they perform the best
 
I hate to burst your bubble but BTC is up over 8k since Friday and all of other stable coins I know about are also on the rise. Scalpers rejoice, LHR proves to not be worth it as some of the better tuned cards are able to produce ROI much sooner than projected. I have talked to a few "large scale buyers" and they have said that even AFTER the chip shortage eases, they will continue to buy all the cards to keep demand up. Their end goal is to use a card for 12-16 months, replace it with a fresh card and sell their old card 2nd hand. I have even heard of re-sellers looking into the legitimacy of labeling a card "refurb" with a warranty to fetch top dollar....... China has even been rumored to be relocating to Edmonton oil fields to avoid regulations.

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#1

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    sammaza421
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    Re: For all the "crypto is dying!!!! Cards will be at MSRP soon." 2021/07/26 08:39:23 (permalink)
    LOL this guy holds crypto for sure.
    #2
    kevinc313
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    Re: For all the "crypto is dying!!!! Cards will be at MSRP soon." 2021/07/26 08:40:26 (permalink)
    Ruff.
    #3
    jaeparku
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    Re: For all the "crypto is dying!!!! Cards will be at MSRP soon." 2021/07/26 08:50:37 (permalink)
    Cryptos will never die.
     
    I predict bull market to end by end of this year. BTC will probably break its old ATH and go anywhere from 70k to 100k before crashing down and bear market start. 
     
    We will be in more pain for the remainder of this year, at the very least. 
    #4
    glenn37216
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    Re: For all the "crypto is dying!!!! Cards will be at MSRP soon." 2021/07/26 09:01:09 (permalink)
    My neighbor just got 260 gpus (3080)from zotac. Its crazy how you can buy bulk straight from them if you have the cash....not sure what gpu model or if they are even LHR... I saw the gpus arriving in a Saran Wrap crates so I asked him about it... On the plus side he gave me a 3070 for helping him unload.. w00t ! Im sleeping with the enemy! (sort of)
    post edited by glenn37216 - 2021/07/26 09:02:20
    #5
    kevinc313
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    Re: For all the "crypto is dying!!!! Cards will be at MSRP soon." 2021/07/26 09:06:18 (permalink)
    glenn37216
    My neighbor just got 260 gpus (3080)from zotac. Its crazy how you can buy bulk straight from them if you have the cash....not sure what gpu model or if they are even LHR... I saw the gpus arriving in a Saran Wrap crates so I asked him about it... On the plus side he gave me a 3070 for helping him unload.. w00t ! Im sleeping with the enemy! (sort of)



    Nice, any idea what he paid for them per unit?  I've been thinking about getting a pallet or two myself.
    #6
    kram36
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    Re: For all the "crypto is dying!!!! Cards will be at MSRP soon." 2021/07/26 09:06:21 (permalink)
    glenn37216
    My neighbor just got 260 gpus (3080)from zotac. Its crazy how you can buy bulk straight from them if you have the cash....not sure what gpu model or if they are even LHR... I saw the gpus arriving in a Saran Wrap crates so I asked him about it... On the plus side he gave me a 3070 for helping him unload.. w00t ! Im sleeping with the enemy! (sort of)

    That's like $263K+ in video cards alone.

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    #7
    Jstandaert
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    Re: For all the "crypto is dying!!!! Cards will be at MSRP soon." 2021/07/26 09:12:14 (permalink)
    glenn37216
    My neighbor just got 260 gpus (3080)from zotac. Its crazy how you can buy bulk straight from them if you have the cash....not sure what gpu model or if they are even LHR... I saw the gpus arriving in a Saran Wrap crates so I asked him about it... On the plus side he gave me a 3070 for helping him unload.. w00t ! Im sleeping with the enemy! (sort of)



    People always get upset when they see things like this. But I always say, "look at it from a business standpoint" zotac sells 260 GPU. (ill use Krams math) at $263k. the buyer gets them all installed and 2% fail for one reason or another. 1 transaction, one RMA, one invoice. one flat tax rate, ONE headache. I would much rather make $200k in a week all in rather than $200 a transaction + all the support and everything that goes with it.

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    #8
    crazyjohnny
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    Re: For all the "crypto is dying!!!! Cards will be at MSRP soon." 2021/07/26 09:13:27 (permalink)
    This must be related to Amazon plans to use Bitcoin as a payment method. Still let's not forget that Ethereum is the one driving the demand for GPU's because bitcoin moved to ascic a long time ago. Ethereum 2.0 will be implemented sometime next year and will no longer depend on a proof of work system. What happens next is anyone's guess.
    #9
    Jstandaert
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    Re: For all the "crypto is dying!!!! Cards will be at MSRP soon." 2021/07/26 09:18:10 (permalink)
    crazyjohnny
    This must be related to Amazon plans to use Bitcoin as a payment method. Still let's not forget that Ethereum is the one driving the demand for GPU's because bitcoin moved to ascic a long time ago. Ethereum 2.0 will be implemented sometime next year and will no longer depend on a proof of work system. What happens next is anyone's guess.



    there will always be guys out there like nicehash that pay you in BTC to provide hash power. I look at crypto like precious medals. there is platinum and gold and silver and copper. sure Gold is worth the most but you can still get rich on copper. As crypto takes hold more stable coins will come out and provide a way for smart folks to make money. Crypto is this generations "gold rush". 

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    #10
    crazyjohnny
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    Re: For all the "crypto is dying!!!! Cards will be at MSRP soon." 2021/07/26 09:37:26 (permalink)
    It's still a bubble to me, it will pop sooner or later. How much money can it be pumped into it, before it collapses? There is a limit to how much liquidity exists in the financial circuit.
    #11
    Jstandaert
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    Re: For all the "crypto is dying!!!! Cards will be at MSRP soon." 2021/07/26 09:42:56 (permalink)
    crazyjohnny
    It's still a bubble to me, it will pop sooner or later. How much money can it be pumped into it, before it collapses? There is a limit to how much liquidity exists in the financial circuit.



    Unless all my research is wrong that is the beauty of it. as long as there is a finite supply the value will HODL. coins like DOGE won't make it cause the creator can just add more coins into circulation they hold no real value. not to mention that BC can't even do a fraction of transaction compared to Visa or MC.
     
    30 series cards are the swiss army knife of PC components. I can play games and make money. (obligatory keep it on topic fluff)

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    #12
    Dwarfy
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    Re: For all the "crypto is dying!!!! Cards will be at MSRP soon." 2021/07/26 09:46:11 (permalink)
    In a world where we are trying to move to more electric things instead of fossil fuels I can't see crypto in that world, I hope more governments get involved and regulate the trade and mining of coins.
    #13
    Jstandaert
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    Re: For all the "crypto is dying!!!! Cards will be at MSRP soon." 2021/07/26 09:50:45 (permalink)
    Dwarfy
    In a world where we are trying to move to more electric things instead of fossil fuels I can't see crypto in that world, I hope more governments get involved and regulate the trade and mining of coins.


    people said the same thing about cars, trains and planes. 
     
    Not to mention if the majority of the world moves to cleaner energy there is no reason they couldn't figure out a way to make crypto more efficient. its in its infancy right now. Tesla had a car that was $225k and went something like 80-100 miles and could sit 2 people. now you can get one for 50k and drive 250+. with a family of 4-5. 

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    #14
    kevinc313
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    Re: For all the "crypto is dying!!!! Cards will be at MSRP soon." 2021/07/26 10:03:29 (permalink)
    Dwarfy
    In a world where we are trying to move to more electric things instead of fossil fuels I can't see crypto in that world, I hope more governments get involved and regulate the trade and mining of coins.




    Large percent of crypto is already on renewable or waste energy. The guys with a couple dozen GPU's in the basement is nothing.
    #15
    jaredbyoung
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    Re: For all the "crypto is dying!!!! Cards will be at MSRP soon." 2021/07/26 10:25:46 (permalink)
    Jstandaert
    Not sure if this is directly related to 30-series cards. I just know the fight is centralized as they perform the best
     
    I hate to burst your bubble but BTC is up over 8k since Friday and all of other stable coins I know about are also on the rise. Scalpers rejoice, LHR proves to not be worth it as some of the better tuned cards are able to produce ROI much sooner than projected. I have talked to a few "large scale buyers" and they have said that even AFTER the chip shortage eases, they will continue to buy all the cards to keep demand up. Their end goal is to use a card for 12-16 months, replace it with a fresh card and sell their old card 2nd hand. I have even heard of re-sellers looking into the legitimacy of labeling a card "refurb" with a warranty to fetch top dollar....... China has even been rumored to be relocating to Edmonton oil fields to avoid regulations.


    This sounds like story time.
     
    Miners don't need "fresh cards" to mine with. They can mine on the same card for years and years. Might need to replace some thermal pads here and there.
    #16
    jaredbyoung
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    Re: For all the "crypto is dying!!!! Cards will be at MSRP soon." 2021/07/26 10:33:16 (permalink)
    glenn37216
    My neighbor just got 260 gpus (3080)from zotac. Its crazy how you can buy bulk straight from them if you have the cash....not sure what gpu model or if they are even LHR... I saw the gpus arriving in a Saran Wrap crates so I asked him about it... On the plus side he gave me a 3070 for helping him unload.. w00t ! Im sleeping with the enemy! (sort of)

    Did you also see the power company stop buy to upgrade his electrical service to commercial level?
     
    That many 3080s would consume about 60KW/h
     
    Most houses are fed from the outside box by a 100A breaker. Most can access 200A at the most. That's 24KW/h or 48KW/h, and I imagine he still likes to use his microwave, refrigerator and AC.
     
    It takes serious wiring modifications to safely run that many GPUs, even if his electrical service has been upgraded.
    post edited by jaredbyoung - 2021/07/26 11:25:11
    #17
    Dwarfy
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    Re: For all the "crypto is dying!!!! Cards will be at MSRP soon." 2021/07/26 10:35:47 (permalink)
    kevinc313
    Dwarfy
    In a world where we are trying to move to more electric things instead of fossil fuels I can't see crypto in that world, I hope more governments get involved and regulate the trade and mining of coins.




    Large percent of crypto is already on renewable or waste energy. The guys with a couple dozen GPU's in the basement is nothing.


    It's not the source, it's the infrastructure.
    As more and more electricity is consumed, then the electric grid needs to be able to carry it. And it's not sudden surge like the days of old when the kettle here in the UK would go on during the ad breaks and cause a large surge (it has a name and can be read here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV_pickup) it's constant high demand and possible surges for charging cars at the end of work.
     
    Also I'm hearing rumblings here in the UK that we will start phasing out gas appliances in favour of the only other alternative, electric. You can see where this is going right?
    #18
    Sahira
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    Re: For all the "crypto is dying!!!! Cards will be at MSRP soon." 2021/07/26 11:18:55 (permalink)
    Jstandaert I have talked to a few "large scale buyers" and they have said that even AFTER the chip shortage eases, they will continue to buy all the cards to keep demand up. Their end goal is to use a card for 12-16 months, replace it with a fresh card and sell their old card 2nd hand. 



    Only if they are schyzophrenic. Or senile.
     
    glenn37216
    My neighbor just got 260 gpus (3080)from zotac. Its crazy how you can buy bulk straight from them if you have the cash....not sure what gpu model or if they are even LHR... I saw the gpus arriving in a Saran Wrap crates so I asked him about it... On the plus side he gave me a 3070 for helping him unload.. w00t ! Im sleeping with the enemy! (sort of)

     
    And I was Bezos' pilot in the space craft.
    post edited by Sahira - 2021/07/26 11:23:30
    #19
    undecided65
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    Re: For all the "crypto is dying!!!! Cards will be at MSRP soon." 2021/07/26 11:49:28 (permalink)
    kevinc313
    Dwarfy
    In a world where we are trying to move to more electric things instead of fossil fuels I can't see crypto in that world, I hope more governments get involved and regulate the trade and mining of coins.




    Large percent of crypto is already on renewable or waste energy. The guys with a couple dozen GPU's in the basement is nothing.


    That is not true. Do you have any data to back your claim up? 
    #20
    joshieecs
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    Re: For all the "crypto is dying!!!! Cards will be at MSRP soon." 2021/07/26 23:14:19 (permalink)
    When Ethereum goes proof-of-stake, I suspect GPU mining will mostly die off. Hopefully early next year. But I would guess as soon as the release timeline is confirmed, miners will stop buying new cards, and may start trying to unload their used cards before the price bottoms out.
    #21
    jaredbyoung
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    Re: For all the "crypto is dying!!!! Cards will be at MSRP soon." 2021/07/27 00:45:44 (permalink)
    joshieecs
    When Ethereum goes proof-of-stake, I suspect GPU mining will mostly die off. Hopefully early next year. But I would guess as soon as the release timeline is confirmed, miners will stop buying new cards, and may start trying to unload their used cards before the price bottoms out.


    There are several other coins that can be mined. Ethereum 2.0 will not be the end of GPU mining. It might very well end the most recent craze and many people might exit the mining thing, but most will look for the next opportunity. People will mine the next thing(s) at slim margins and hodl waiting for the next one to blow up.
     
    All of you blaming crypto mining for the shortage are barking up the wrong tree. LHR did nothing. Small downturn in ETH value did nothing. You still don't have cards. ETH 2.0 is not the answer you've been waiting for.
    #22
    tyranus7
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    Re: For all the "crypto is dying!!!! Cards will be at MSRP soon." 2021/07/27 02:19:50 (permalink)
    I have a master's degree in finance and I'll tell you exactly what's going to happen to cryptos value on the future. Because history repeats itself.
     
    Today's crypto market is small, very small around $1.47T dollars in total (that's adding BTC, etherium , etc all of their market capitalization). For you to have an idea Apple alone has a market cap of $2.49T dollars. The gold has a market cap of over $11T dollars. So you can't compare professionalism of crypto to traditional stock market like Nasdaq or S&P500 or commodities. Today's cryto market is dominated by "noise traders" this is the most not professional kind of investors. This people buy at very high prices (because their neighbor told him he made a couple of dollars on cryptos) and sell really low, because they don't want to "lose" money. Noise traders haven't realized that the real value of a cryto is just the cost of mining a crypto, that's it. In a perfect market 1 BTC should be priced at the exact same amount of money that it cost to you to mine 1 BTC no more no less. So there is no arbitrage chance. i.e. if you buy a BTC or mine it should cost the same. Unlike today where mining a BTC is several times cheaper than buying a BTC.
     
    As the crypto market becomes larger is going to become more professional and more competitive and noise traders are going to retire because they don't stand a chance on a professional market. That will imply that the value of cryptos will bounce around their mining cost based on speculation of electricity price, electronic components supply, etc. Because of this mining will be profitable sometimes and sometimes it will not be profitable.
     
    Sorry crypto farmers but there isn't such a thing as a free lunch forever.

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    #23
    Hoggle
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    Re: For all the "crypto is dying!!!! Cards will be at MSRP soon." 2021/07/27 02:39:49 (permalink)
    I have to agree that crypto will even out as professionals get into the game and places well known start taking it as payment. The other thing that will happen is as supplies of GPU's increase the price of crypto will go down since more miners will be mining more coins and putting them onto the market.

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    #24
    Jstandaert
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    Re: For all the "crypto is dying!!!! Cards will be at MSRP soon." 2021/07/27 06:31:36 (permalink)
    tyranus7
    I have a master's degree in finance and I'll tell you exactly what's going to happen to cryptos value on the future. Because history repeats itself.
     
    Today's crypto market is small, very small around $1.47T dollars in total (that's adding BTC, etherium , etc all of their market capitalization).  The gold has a market cap of over $11T dollars. So you can't compare professionalism of crypto to traditional stock market like Nasdaq or S&P500 or commodities. 
     


    so I don't have any type of degree in any fancy subject so I will believe that you know what you are talking about, and take this opportunity to get some free education. the value of gold is $11T....why? today its trading at about $1800 an ounce or $60k a kilo. I (in my infinite wisdom of assumption)  believe that is because there is a finite supply and it is used world wide as a recognized tender. if crypto or more specifically  BTC takes on that same role, (there is a finite supply and it is used world wide as a recognized tender) but not regulated by governments or banks its value should increase. Taking gold as a controlled case study, during the gold rush gold was worth about $20 an ounce, but a pick and shovel cost $25 a piece. its widely known that most people didn't get rich by getting gold- they got rich selling the materials to mine the gold.
     
    Big Jim and his family HODL to the kilo they mined they now have $60k. I fully expect crypto to follow that, right now the real people getting rich are the ones selling the equipment to the miners, but the commodity being mined will still gain value. I still have a "9-5" and I don't need to cash out my crypto to pay bills. it is all covered by my "real job" and if one day the value GOES TO THE MOON yay for me, if not.... I have the ability to build some sweet gaming rigs and sell them to get my ROI. this is a win win for me no matter what happens.
     
    do I sound smart?

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    #25
    crazyjohnny
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    Re: For all the "crypto is dying!!!! Cards will be at MSRP soon." 2021/07/27 06:46:25 (permalink)
    jaredbyoung
     
    All of you blaming crypto mining for the shortage are barking up the wrong tree. LHR did nothing. Small downturn in ETH value did nothing. You still don't have cards. ETH 2.0 is not the answer you've been waiting for.




    I disagree, at least where I leave, all major retailers have them, and most likely across the world the situation is similar, but the prices are still heavily inflated.
     
    Still what you presented in the first post is the worst case scenario. I hardly believe in a future where all GPU's are mostly sold for mining and only a few gaming elite with deep enough pockets to afford them.
     
    It will be the end of PC gaming as we know it, with midrange series out of financial reach and budged builds, no longer budget friendly. I bet you that not everyone will want to buy a card cooked up 12 months in a mining farm.
     
    If it is not going to work with LHR cards, the 2 big manufacturers must find a way to separate the 2 segments.
     
    You don't hear about innovations in mining whenever they launch a new series, do you? Instead they are advertised for gaming. If gaming will not be the driving factor of the industry, we could be very well heading to mediocrity.
     
     
     
    #26
    mrblue81
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    Re: For all the "crypto is dying!!!! Cards will be at MSRP soon." 2021/07/27 07:09:24 (permalink)
    crazyjohnny
    It's still a bubble to me, it will pop sooner or later. How much money can it be pumped into it, before it collapses? There is a limit to how much liquidity exists in the financial circuit.

    Gold is worth like 10 trillion, the entire US stock market is over 50 trillion. Crypto is 1.5 trillion, there seems to be a lot of wiggle room there.
    #27
    tyranus7
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    Re: For all the "crypto is dying!!!! Cards will be at MSRP soon." 2021/07/27 07:31:37 (permalink)
    Jstandaert
    tyranus7
    I have a master's degree in finance and I'll tell you exactly what's going to happen to cryptos value on the future. Because history repeats itself.
     
    Today's crypto market is small, very small around $1.47T dollars in total (that's adding BTC, etherium , etc all of their market capitalization).  The gold has a market cap of over $11T dollars. So you can't compare professionalism of crypto to traditional stock market like Nasdaq or S&P500 or commodities. 
     


    so I don't have any type of degree in any fancy subject so I will believe that you know what you are talking about, and take this opportunity to get some free education. the value of gold is $11T....why? today its trading at about $1800 an ounce or $60k a kilo. I (in my infinite wisdom of assumption)  believe that is because there is a finite supply and it is used world wide as a recognized tender. if crypto or more specifically  BTC takes on that same role, (there is a finite supply and it is used world wide as a recognized tender) but not regulated by governments or banks its value should increase. Taking gold as a controlled case study, during the gold rush gold was worth about $20 an ounce, but a pick and shovel cost $25 a piece. its widely known that most people didn't get rich by getting gold- they got rich selling the materials to mine the gold.
     
    Big Jim and his family HODL to the kilo they mined they now have $60k. I fully expect crypto to follow that, right now the real people getting rich are the ones selling the equipment to the miners, but the commodity being mined will still gain value. I still have a "9-5" and I don't need to cash out my crypto to pay bills. it is all covered by my "real job" and if one day the value GOES TO THE MOON yay for me, if not.... I have the ability to build some sweet gaming rigs and sell them to get my ROI. this is a win win for me no matter what happens.
     
    do I sound smart?




    The market cap of gold is $11T because the price of each Oz of gold is around $1800 and there is an estimate of 197,000 metric tones of gold above ground reserves, if you do the math you have around $11T. I'm not sure if that was your question. But I hardly think Cryptos will take a similar path of gold. The gold was one used by countries as a backup for it's currency and so control inflation, the gold also has a real life use different than currency and that's to make jewelry. Today the gold can be valued only by supply and demand on the futures market and it moves by pure speculation based mostly on how the stock market is doing and where investors are moving their money based on hedge. There is absolutely no way that someone will actually mine their own gold, so there isn't a real comparison there with cryptos. I'm not saying that cryptos will value more or less than gold over time, I'm just saying I don't see them following similar paths.
     
    As more professional investors get in to cryptos they will push the crypto price towards the mining price, because why would someone pay more for a crypto if the same crypto could be mined for a cheaper price? That's called arbitrage, where you can buy cheap somewhere and sell expensive somewhere else. That's what crypto miner have been doing, they "buy" cryptos at a discount and sell them to fools at a much higher value. On highly professional markets like wall street there is zero arbitrage chance.
     
    As for how safe is to buy cards to mine, keep the cryptos and then sell the cards and repeat. It will be profitable as long as the crypto market continue to be dominated by noise traders and the graphics card industry use the same technology and it doesn't happens something like the next gen of GPUs get ridiculous faster at much lower price. It sounds like a black swan that both things happen at the same time but before 2008 nobody ever thought that people will ever stop paying their mortgages in mass and it happened anyway.  

    Desktop: | Gigabyte Z490 Vision-G | Intel Core i9 10850K | GPU: COLORFUL iGame GeForce RTX 3080 Ti Advanced OC-V | 16 GB RAM DDR4@4400 MHz CL18 | 1 TB NVMe + 10 TB HDD | Intel 2.5 Gbps Ethernet | 1080p @144Hz | EVGA 750W Supernova P2 |
     
    12G-P5-3967-KR     6/3/2021 7:48:19 AM PT    Yes (ordered/cancelled by EVGA)

    12G-P5-3968-KR     6/3/2021 7:51:30 AM PT    No
    12G-P5-3953-KR     6/30/2021 6:30:34 AM PT   Yes (skipped)

     
     
    #28
    mrblue81
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    Re: For all the "crypto is dying!!!! Cards will be at MSRP soon." 2021/07/27 12:03:42 (permalink)
    tyranus7
    On highly professional markets like wall street there is zero arbitrage chance.
     



    I thought someone with a masters would know about the GBTC arbitrage that was going on :)
    #29
    Flint 1760
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    Re: For all the "crypto is dying!!!! Cards will be at MSRP soon." 2021/07/27 12:16:17 (permalink)
    mrblue81
    I thought someone with a masters would know about the GBTC arbitrage that was going on :)



    A lot of people don't know about it.  For those who are curious here is a link:  https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/currencies/grayscale-bitcoin-trust-unlock-effect-crypto-markets-share-expiration-price-2021-7.


    #30
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