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1080 Ti Kingpin D3909 LED lits up and MEM rail reports no power

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avengerx
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2022/11/23 07:16:49 (permalink)
Hello!
 
Here's a summary of my question:
- LED D3909 in the back of the GPU is lighting up in my GPU when it turns down while gaming. The MEM LED turns off when this one turns on and display blacks out. System is still responsive, so I can press the power button and gracefully shutdown Windows. What's this LED about?
 
Now the long version
I'm running my 1080 Ti KPE in a little overclock, just using Precision X OC 6.2.7 (latest version that really supported the card). Stock air cooling.
The settings I'm using are:
- Power Target: 120%
- Temp Target: 70C (priority)
- GPU clock offset: +37 MHz
- MEM clock offset: +600 MHz (tried to lower to +550, +500, for no avail)
 
I can play with these settings for long long sessions. Sometimes it throttles to keep the card under 70C, and I add a little outside air cooling (air conditioner duct straight to the card), so it keeps reasonably cool when the a/c kicks in. Yes, that's not a bit power efficient...
 
I checked all temps with PXOC open in 2nd display, none of the sensors are bumping beyond 70 C, ever. In general only GPU gets to 70C, mem, power, all behind 60C, 65C tops, if ever.
 
But just sometimes, at random, the card would "shut down", turning off the MEM light, yet lighting a D3909 LED behind the backplate (needed to remove backplate to see the component and number, but the light is visible when it comes up even with the backplate on). That strange LED sits nearby the BIOS selector switch (but its in the back of the card).
 
The LED seems to be related to some protection to the card's memory, alright. It's probably shutting down the memory power rail to prevent it from busting (thus the MEM light turns off), which is cool. But it lits up to tell me something's not right, and I am not really sure what, as I couldn't find any reference to that LED anywhere (xdevs.com guide doesn't mention it).
 
My SW 100, 101 and 3401 are all in the stock (off) positions, thus all running in stock voltages. It would be nice if I could have further technical documentation on the GPU to troubleshoot it.
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    Sajin
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    Re: 1080 Ti Kingpin D3909 LED lits up and MEM rail reports no power 2022/11/23 11:19:33 (permalink)
    Does this happen with the card at stock clocks?
    #2
    avengerx
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    Re: 1080 Ti Kingpin D3909 LED lits up and MEM rail reports no power 2022/11/23 14:58:04 (permalink)
    Sajin
    Does this happen with the card at stock clocks?



    It probably doesn't, but to be honest, I only play overclocking it. So to say with some level of confidence, I would need to play another week or two without touching the knobs. For now I reduced memory o/c to 500MHz, but I'm sure that LED is there for a reason, and I believe it is to serve as a guide in extreme overclocking. It's just a pity there's no documentation anywhere I looked. Hoping some could come up.
    #3
    Sajin
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    Re: 1080 Ti Kingpin D3909 LED lits up and MEM rail reports no power 2022/11/23 16:41:41 (permalink)
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    avengerx
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    Re: 1080 Ti Kingpin D3909 LED lits up and MEM rail reports no power 2022/11/24 05:40:24 (permalink)
    Sajin
    Found this… https://forums.evga.com/FindPost/3035532

    That's really about it!.. And great clue from post #16 in that thread!
     
    For future reference (and hopefully any google indexing to get the reference! haha):
     
    Cool GTX
    Update ... I got a reply to my PM from Tin_EE 

    TiN_EE
    If I remember right:
    D3905 indicates MCU firmware status. Normal operation should be never on.
    D3909 shows memory VRM status. Might be issue with memory power/VRM.

     
    So, memory VRM (voltage regulator module) status. Or, rather, a memory "breaker tripped" indicator led. Now, it probably "trips" due to heat (localized heat not caught by the 10 sensors in the board). If so. my hopes are up, I most likely need to disassemble the whole thing and apply new thermal pads... I already bought some a few months ago but I can't find the darn pads for the life of me!.. 😫

    Or, could this be "tripping" because I'm giving the memory too low voltage for the higher clock? I might try pushing a bit in the SW100 to add more voltage...
     
    I have lowered memory clocks and will run like that for some time, until I need to go stock speeds (for the few FPS in the extra clock), but this thing tripping at ~600MHz sounds like an horrible sample, given in the OC tests Vince stated in average 800MHz was working on air cooling... Well, given the years of service the board have been... I don't know. It makes sense, I may need to add power for the memory to stabilize (and need to change power before boot for that "OS training" issue to be avoided).
     
    Thanks for finding that thread, it was a gem buried within the forums! Google really indexed that page but it probably has a very low score of sorts for how many people have had this board it seems. I could only find the thread when I really looked up for it in google. :P
     
    It's a shame there won't be a 4090 KPE.
     
    #5
    Sajin
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    Re: 1080 Ti Kingpin D3909 LED lits up and MEM rail reports no power 2022/11/24 12:07:19 (permalink)
    No problem.

    It could be tripping because the voltage needs a slight bump, but it seems like the power rail for the mem has an issue since the mem light goes out. If this issue occurs at stock, oc’d & oc’d and ov’d then I’d say the mem power rail has a problem.
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    avengerx
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    Re: 1080 Ti Kingpin D3909 LED lits up and MEM rail reports no power 2022/11/24 13:03:17 (permalink)
    A little update on that, and not sure this helps much, but it looks like the KPE 1080 Ti comes with a bundled "EPOWER V.5" sort of power board. This helps understand what the hell "vdroop" in SW100 and SW101 are.
    - Thread on EPOWER V
    - PDF version of the guide above (or the other way around) in particular, pages 24 and 25.
     
    The differences are:
    - SW3401 switch is like VOFS, but comes in increments of 25mV in KPE 1080Ti instead of 80mV from EPower V.
    - there's no "force" switch pair, instead there's the memory's "Vdroop" switch (SW100), that's not present in EPower V
    - the GPU "Vdroop" switch seems to be the same, so SW101 relates to DROOP
     
    Basically, by what I could understand from the guides (my assumptions base also on reading the KPE 1080Ti uncorking guide), the "Vdroop" switches are used to determine where power to the memory or GPU are sensed; switching only one dip kind of balances sensing between the power board and GPU (via a passthru 0-ohm resistor). This can be used to "compensate" loss of voltage in the circuit that negatively affects measurements from the whole power module.
     
    The usefulness of this is pretty clear in the EPower board, especially when you may de-solder those zero-impedance resistors and pull a twisted pair of wires straight to the board to make the measure closer to the GPU (remote sensing). But I suppose KPE should already be wired to go that close, stock (without changes/soldering)? So I'm not sure this should be very helpful here.
     
    I am trying the setting at 50% Vdroop for memory now (just one switch turned on), going a little more aggressive on the o/c, and see what happens. Once it lights up the 3909, I may try it at 100%. I really don't see much point in figuring out if KPE 1080Ti has equivalent RFP/RFN to solder a bridge ("remote sensing" from EPower guides), as the board is all bundled and its "on" position probably has good rails straight to the points of interest.
     
    I am also not sure all this vdroop thing should be needed in "light overclock" that's not LN2 extremes...
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    avengerx
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    Re: 1080 Ti Kingpin D3909 LED lits up and MEM rail reports no power 2022/12/04 15:34:45 (permalink)
    Another update... Tested lower clocks until stock clocks. It still breaks after a couple days. No matter how I set clocks up, it only hangs the following day I booted up, in the least.
     
    Remember "stock" clocks for KPE are 2012MHz core, 5500MHz (1375MHz) mem, that's what XOC reports when I apply its "default" settings. I didn't go underclock to see how low it goes.
     
    If I don't game, it does not break at all, no matter how many days I keep the machine on. So there's probably an underclock setting I could work with to still play on that card.
     
    Notwithstanding, I finally found my Zezzio thermal pads, ripped the whole GPU apart, cleaned everything. Painfully, yet patiently removing up old grease and padlets stuck here and there, to near-mint-condition.
     
    Assembled everything and so far temps reads right across the board. If this doesn't fix it, I think I'll give up. I applied some thermal pads in additional areas with transistors that could contact heat spreaders.
     
    I really hope the issue was a hot spot -- and that I didn't create new ones in the process.
    post edited by avengerx - 2022/12/06 07:26:25
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    Sajin
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    Re: 1080 Ti Kingpin D3909 LED lits up and MEM rail reports no power 2022/12/04 20:27:43 (permalink)
    Thanks for the update.
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    avengerx
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    Re: 1080 Ti Kingpin D3909 LED lits up and MEM rail reports no power 2022/12/06 07:23:11 (permalink)
    And the next update is... still the same! :(
     
    My conclusion so far is, the issue is due to components wear. This memory should run fine at 6,000 (1,500) when new. So it's probably just "spent out".
     
    Well, at least re-applying the thermal pads and grease didn't worsen anything... :) I believe.
     
    Now moving to my next resort: underclocking. Running now at around 1900MHz core and 5400MHz (1350MHz) memory and will run for a week or so of gameplay. If it gets stable I might try to improve one clock or another to see which one (if not both) is making the GPU go bonks. It should still perform kinda well as the core runs at about 500MHz more than reference card. But it's a pity I was counting on the "excess" this card provided for longer life. Anyways, if it still can perform as well as reference card, it's (much) better than returning to a GTX 670 or having to spend the bucks for a newer card.
     
    For what I could see, without underclocking, the card goes on par with RTX 3070 (ray tracing aside). Which, interestingly enough, around my parts, goes around the price I paid for this GPU when I bought it -- a few weeks before 20 series was released.
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    Sajin
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    Re: 1080 Ti Kingpin D3909 LED lits up and MEM rail reports no power 2022/12/06 12:38:48 (permalink)
    Hope the underclocking fixes it, but I have a feeling it wont. Guess we shall see.
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    avengerx
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    Re: 1080 Ti Kingpin D3909 LED lits up and MEM rail reports no power 2023/01/08 10:08:53 (permalink)
    A quick update, the underclocking did the trick. The card run smoothly for days.
     
    I begun with:
    - 80% power (priority)
    - 70C temp
    - -100MHz GPU clock offset (2012 - 100 = ~1912MHz, still above stock)
    - -100MHz memory clock offset (1250MHz -- 5000MHz)

    When I raised back to 100% power target, the problem happened again.
    Then I begun fiddling with its limits (hope I'm not breaking it even more, but well), then worked stable at:
    - 90% power (prio)
    - 70C temp (I stick to this to avoid making air gap in the GPU like it happened when it was stock assembled)
    - +37MHz GPU clock
    - -100MHz mem clock
     
    And now I'm going to change that to 95% power and run to see if it crashes.
    If not, I will then return the memory to 0 offset and try...


    Something interesting is, when I was at the 80% power setup above I had my system hard-shutdown, as if the PSU was broken. Now I suspect I may have an issue with either my Gigabyte motherboard, or the PSU itself.
     
    The PSU is a supernova 850G5. I think it is pretty "high-end-ish" and has a long long warranty.
     
    If in the end the PSU is borked, it could mean the issue is not with the GPU but PSU. If the culprit was the mobo, then the GPU issue persists. I have an old 500W (OCz StealthStream II) PSU that I can try plugging dedicated to the KPE 1080Ti. I will do the test when I get a chance. And if that solves the issue, I guess I will need to RMA my PSU.
     
    I don't pronto assume the PSU is the culprit because the mobo is also showing signs of aging, with one fan header busted (I guess it was in the last time I cleaned up the rig guts). So, yeah, it really feels like time to upgrade the whole ~2016 stuff here... $$$. :P
    #12
    Sajin
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    Re: 1080 Ti Kingpin D3909 LED lits up and MEM rail reports no power 2023/01/08 12:27:11 (permalink)
    Thanks for the update.
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    avengerx
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    Re: 1080 Ti Kingpin D3909 LED lits up and MEM rail reports no power 2023/01/13 12:47:48 (permalink)
    I guess this should be the last update before the card dies. :P I don't think there's anybody else in the world with the same card and issue to exchange experiences about anyway. Hopefully one day this thread proves helpful to somebody venturing with these old (and legendary) cards. I will miss so much the power connectors location!!! No other brand seems to do what Tim and Vince envisioned. :S

    At 90% power and stable. 95% and it dies just the same. I still didn't test with 2nd PSU (have to dig one out from boxes...). I moved the GPU and mem dials to +37MHz and +0MHz resp, and it didn't change anything.

    Interesting that in the usual lit white LEDs next to card's power connector (12V, 3V3, PLL, MEM, GPU) the MEM LED is lit really bright (figures?) while 12V is a tidbit brighter than the rest, and then 3V3, PLL and GPU LEDs are least bright (but not really "dim"). D3909 LED only lits up when the the power "trips" and shuts its MEM rail down (thus the MEM LED becomes turned off).
     
    I never paid attention to the LEDs before, but now what I see when I power up the machine is that MEM LED starts off and "smoothly" lits up, not instantly like the other, weaker, ones.
     
    I believe it is a matter of time before 90% becomes unusable, but I hope it doesn't just die on me. I guess the advanced thingies in the card both pulled down its life span -and- allowed me to monitor and trim down pots (via software) I wouldn't be able to in other cards.
     
    Besides, even downpowering it, I still read clocks above reference for this card when it throttles, so it probably should still be running faster than average. In-game FPS, by the way, is now noticeably low, it still kicks a great punch, and the throttle downs are really smooth. That is, compared to other FPS hitting aspects of the game, like more complex areas like forest and city, where the game I'm currently playing, Kingdom Come: Deliverance, becomes actually CPU-bound -- so I get lower FPS -and- GPU demand in those areas.
     
    p.s.: this lighter MEM light could have been because I switched the DIP for the vDroop/memory in the board, I didn't test pulling it back in, as it didn't really change anything stability wise. I explained what I found about these vDroop switches in my previous posts.
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    Sajin
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    Re: 1080 Ti Kingpin D3909 LED lits up and MEM rail reports no power 2023/01/13 14:21:48 (permalink)
    Interesting. Hope it keeps working for you. Let us know the results when testing with another psu if you get around to it.
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