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Crunching numberss in BIONC

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bill1024
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Re: Crunching numberss in BOINC 2019/11/23 12:23:51 (permalink)
One of the best video cards today is the AMD Radeon VII. It DP is better than most cards except the newest Titan.
For the cost I can get three VIIs and blow the RTX Titan away with just 2 of them.
It is good for Milky-way, Einstein, UniverseAtHome, colatzconjecture, seti with the right helper app.
For DP do not count out the R9 280x ot the HD 7970 and the Hd 7990, Titan 6gb, Titan black and the Titan Z
And I believe PG largest GFN still use DP too, it is no slouch at folding at home.
In Setti with the right helper app, my two 1080 Ti were out producing 2 2080Ti and two 1080Ti together not running the right app.
A lot of this what is best has a lot to do with how you set things up to run, what your goals are and how much $$ are you willing to spend
Prime numbers are important, Math is a science in its own right.
Like a secure computer, like data encryption? You like large prime numbers then.
 

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bcavnaugh
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Re: Crunching numberss in BOINC 2019/11/24 09:43:13 (permalink)
bill1024
One of the best video cards today is the AMD Radeon VII.

@bill1024, Is the AMD Radeon VII better than the newer AMD cards like the Vega 64?
post edited by bcavnaugh - 2019/11/24 12:29:02

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Re: Crunching numberss in BOINC 2019/11/24 10:46:15 (permalink)
I seriously doubt that any AMD is faster than even a regular RTX 2080; and according to the benchmarks it's more in line with a 2070 Super in terms of performance.
A 2080, 2080 Super, and 2080 Ti still should be faster than a VII or Vega 64.
 
But that aside, they do have a TDP of 295W, vs the 215W on the 2070 Super.
I guess it'll depend from project to project how much each project taxes the GPU;
However in cases like Folding@Home, and some Einstein@home GPU tasks, that fully utilize the GPU, an RTX 2070 can be dialed down to 140W, and with a little overclock, has nearly the same performance as stock; probably the same performance as a VII or Vega 64 (but at 100W lower).
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bill1024
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Re: Crunching numberss in BOINC 2019/11/24 15:16:43 (permalink)
bcavnaugh
bill1024
One of the best video cards today is the AMD Radeon VII.

@bill1024, Is the AMD Radeon VII better than the newer AMD cards like the Vega 64?


Bill
The VII is newer than the Vega 56 and 64.
 
ProDigit,
You can doubt all you want to, but in DP, Nothing but the newest Titan comes close.
Nvidia cards suck at DP except the early Titans, up to the Z, and the newest Titan
Folding at home I'll have to run some, but  it was over 1m PP been a while.
You can Tax as much or as little by running just one task or running 8 or 10 at a time.
Try running 10 Milkyway tasks at the same time on a 2080Ti LOL
 I bet my R9 280x will outproduce a 2080Ti.
 
Hey Bill, fire up some milyway with a 2080ti and I will run some too on a few different GPUs Titans and AMD
 
 

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Re: Crunching numberss in BOINC 2019/11/24 15:44:53 (permalink)
Thanks Bill
I do still have them PowerColor LCS Radeon R9 290X DirectX 11.2 AXR9 290X 4GBD5-WMDH/OC 4GB 512-Bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0
 
Doing this now, I have never gone over 3 before. "Hey Bill, fire up some milkyway with a 2080ti and I will run some too on a few different GPUs Titans and AMD"
I do not have my Titan installed but I remember from our testing back from then. I will run MilkyWay tomorrow night on this new AMD Card.
 
I Need More CPU Cores For Non-DP <gpu_usage>0.3</gpu_usage> is the max I use.
https://milkyway.cs.rpi.edu/milkyway/results.php?hostid=785575
<app_config>
   <app>
     <name>milkyway</name>
     <gpu_versions>
         <gpu_usage>0.2</gpu_usage>
         <cpu_usage>0.1</cpu_usage>
     </gpu_versions>
   </app>
</app_config>
This gives me 5 Tasks on one card and 4 tasks on the other card.
5 1/2 to 6 1/2 Minutes Per Task.
But as we know most are coming back as  · Validation inconclusive (11) 
Going to test this next but I think I have to Enabled HT
<app_config>
   <app>
     <name>milkyway</name>
     <gpu_versions>
         <gpu_usage>0.1</gpu_usage>
         <cpu_usage>0.1</cpu_usage>
     </gpu_versions>
   </app>
</app_config>
10 1/2 to 13 1/2 Minutes Per Task  Validation inconclusive (38) It is not worth running so many Tasks Per GPU without DP.
This is what I run on my Titan Cards <gpu_usage>0.12</gpu_usage> 8 Tasks and 0.10 10 Tasks
10 on GPU 0 and 7 on GPU 1 Now I have enough task to get 10 on GPU 0 and 10 on GPU 1
But all are coming back · Validation inconclusive (27) because the RTX 2080 Ti Cards have no DP.
This is also running Milkyway@home Separation 
This is my normal running Host 705518 for this Project <gpu_usage>0.5</gpu_usage> on Air
https://milkyway.cs.rpi.edu/milkyway/results.php?hostid=705518
 
post edited by bcavnaugh - 2019/11/26 13:58:20

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Re: Crunching numberss in BOINC 2019/11/24 16:47:58 (permalink)
I have the Titan 6gb, my r9 280x, a 1080ti and the AMD VII going right now
Going downstairs and will fire up a HD 7990 and a Firepro s9000
Only one OC is the 1080TI to 2025
 
The R9 290 and up were DP gimped like Nvidia did to the Titans after the Titan Black.
Well until the VII was released, then they for some reason gave us some great DP, the other new AMD 5700 not so much again.
 
The Radion VII work very well with some undervolting. Helps cut heat and watts with little to no performance hit at all.
 
I'll post up some numbers in a little while. 

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bill1024
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Re: Crunching numberss in BOINC 2019/11/24 16:48:23 (permalink)
Getting any ARP in WCG yet?
 

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Re: Crunching numberss in BOINC 2019/11/24 16:51:55 (permalink)
Yep! 15 so far but for 2 days now none but only one day away from Bronze.
Even getting some TB Tasks (8) as well.
 
"The R9 290 and up were DP gimped like Nvidia did to the Titans after the Titan Black." Why I removed them back then if I recall.
post edited by bcavnaugh - 2019/11/24 16:59:57

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Re: Crunching numberss in BOINC 2019/11/24 17:31:06 (permalink)
For folding, 1M ppd is about on par with a 2060.
The 2080 does 1,5M PPD, the 2080 Ti does 2.2 to 2.5M PPD in Linux.
The problem with AMD is that not a lot of projects use dual precision. Not even folding at home uses it a lot. Most projects do single precision, and some projects on boinc do half precision.
So measuring a GPUs performance on DP, when its hardly ever used, is pretty useless.
 
Single precision Nvidia is far superior, which is for most of the projects.
Can't say if GPU grid uses DP or not... I haven't done a lot of work for them yet.
post edited by ProDigit - 2019/11/24 17:32:09
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Re: Crunching numberss in BOINC 2019/11/24 17:45:00 (permalink)
We are Crunching here more so than Folding.
I wanted a new card that has "Double Precision" for BOINC and not for Folding.
Did you get your Einstein app_config.xml work yet?
post edited by bcavnaugh - 2019/11/24 17:50:53

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bill1024
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Re: Crunching numberss in BOINC 2019/11/24 17:51:51 (permalink)
I will run some folding in a little while. 1m was off the tops of my head. It should so what a 2080 does or close.
This is about BOINC. BOINC is a totally different animal than folding. I will fire some up though.
I think AMD looks better gaming, the color is more vivid, or it pops better, but that is just my opinion.
 
OK when Bill gets his 2080ti numbers in.
 
VII  50 seconds to do 5 tasks                 =10 seconds per task
R9280x 130sec to do 4 tasks                  =32.5 sec per task
Titan 6bg 290 sec to do 8 tasks             =36.2 per task
HD7990 dual GPU 145 sec to do 6 tasks = 24 sec per task
S9000 155 sec to do 4 tasks,                 = 39 sec per task
1080Ti 175 sec to do 3 tasks                 = 58sec per task
 
There can be a spread between tasks, I took what appeared to be an average 150 to 200 would be 175
I did not add every one up and divide. Not worth that effort.

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Re: Crunching numberss in BOINC 2019/11/24 17:54:25 (permalink)
RTX 2080 Ti = Run time 4 min 59 sec - 5 min 21 sec 3 Tasks Per GPU Stock Clocks
GTX 1080 = Run time 2 min 42 sec - 3 min 35 sec 2 Tasks Per GPU Stock Clocks
Normal OC Settings
RTX 2080 Ti = Run time
 
 
post edited by bcavnaugh - 2019/11/24 18:14:18

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bill1024
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Re: Crunching numberss in BOINC 2019/11/24 18:30:19 (permalink)
bcavnaugh
RTX 2080 Ti = Run time 4 min 59 sec - 5 min 21 sec 3 Tasks Per GPU Stock Clocks
GTX 1080 = Run time 2 min 42 sec - 3 min 35 sec 2 Tasks Per GPU Stock Clocks
Normal OC Settings
RTX 2080 Ti = Run time
 
 


2080ti is 103 sec per task
1080 is 95sec per task
 
 
I started folding on the VII
1.159,022 PPD
14196 wu
2min 5sec a frame  10% done
 
Not the best folder, but the WU is not far along. To me over 1m ppd is good enough.
Nvidia has been better at folding for a few years has not always been better.

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Re: Crunching numberss in BOINC 2019/11/24 18:32:20 (permalink)
Been a Long time since I Folded on an AMD GPU.

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bill1024
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Re: Crunching numberss in BOINC 2019/11/24 18:36:16 (permalink)
I undervolted it some and downclosked it a tiny bit. It is running at 48c in a 77f room

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Re: Crunching numberss in BOINC 2019/11/24 18:39:10 (permalink)
bill1024
bcavnaugh
RTX 2080 Ti = Run time 4 min 59 sec - 5 min 21 sec 3 Tasks Per GPU Stock Clocks
GTX 1080 = Run time 2 min 42 sec - 3 min 35 sec 2 Tasks Per GPU Stock Clocks
Normal OC Settings
RTX 2080 Ti = Run time

2080ti is 103 sec per task
1080 is 95sec per task
 
I started folding on the VII
1.159,022 PPD
14196 wu
2min 5sec a frame  10% done
 
Not the best folder, but the WU is not far along. To me over 1m ppd is good enough.
Nvidia has been better at folding for a few years has not always been better.

Normal OC Settings Running 3 Tasks Per GPU.
RTX 2080 Ti = Run time 70 Sec per task.
post edited by bcavnaugh - 2019/11/24 18:40:56

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bill1024
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Re: Crunching numberss in BOINC 2019/11/24 18:46:51 (permalink)
As far as folding, I don't care so much for folding anymore
Started folding 13 years ago. Ever since they told me and a bunch of other folders to go pound sand.
They said "We do not care about you or your hardware, we never asked you to spend thousands on hardware to fold with. All we want is your spare cycles from you desktop PC"
Then they made the multisocket servers a whole bunch of people purchased obsolete and ended the BIGADV SMP CPU project.
Stanford, still to this very day treats their donors like crap when you go to their official support forums.
That was the last straw for many people on many teams. Stanford and their support people can kiss my grits.
 

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Re: Crunching numberss in BOINC 2019/11/24 18:49:07 (permalink)
bill1024
As far as folding, I don't care so much for folding anymore
Started folding 13 years ago. Ever since they told me and a bunch of other folders to go pound sand.
They said "We do not care about you or your hardware, we never asked you to spend thousands on hardware to fold with. All we want is your spare cycles from you desktop PC"
Then they made the multisocket servers a whole bunch of people purchased obsolete and ended the BIGADV SMP CPU project.
Stanford, still to this very day treats their donors like crap when you go to their official support forums.
That was the last straw for many people on many teams. Stanford and their support people can kiss my grits.

+1

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bill1024
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Re: Crunching numberss in BOINC 2019/11/24 18:52:38 (permalink)
bcavnaugh
bill1024
bcavnaugh
RTX 2080 Ti = Run time 4 min 59 sec - 5 min 21 sec 3 Tasks Per GPU Stock Clocks
GTX 1080 = Run time 2 min 42 sec - 3 min 35 sec 2 Tasks Per GPU Stock Clocks
Normal OC Settings
RTX 2080 Ti = Run time

2080ti is 103 sec per task
1080 is 95sec per task
 
I started folding on the VII
1.159,022 PPD
14196 wu
2min 5sec a frame  10% done
 
Not the best folder, but the WU is not far along. To me over 1m ppd is good enough.
Nvidia has been better at folding for a few years has not always been better.

Normal OC Settings Running 3 Tasks Per GPU.
RTX 2080 Ti = Run time 70 Sec per task.


You said 5min to do 3 tasks
5x60=300sec divided by 3 is 100. 
 
I added a little more cause you said 5min to 5min 21 sec   at 5:21 that is 107 er task
 

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Re: Crunching numberss in BOINC 2019/11/24 18:59:02 (permalink)
So A VII is up to 10x faster than a 2080Ti in Milkyway  Maybe 7 if my math is wrong, but I think I am correct, maybe LOL
 
And no matter what project you like or dont like, there are people who only do Milky way , or Einstein, or primegrid.
That is the great thing about BOINC, there is something for everyone. What ever floats your boat.

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Re: Crunching numberss in BOINC 2019/11/24 19:06:53 (permalink)
bill1024
So A VII is up to 10x faster than a 2080Ti in Milkyway  Maybe 7 if my math is wrong, but I think I am correct, maybe LOL
 
And no matter what project you like or dont like, there are people who only do Milky way , or Einstein, or primegrid.
That is the great thing about BOINC, there is something for everyone. What ever floats your boat.

And whatever Pop Your Bubble

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Re: Crunching numberss in BOINC 2019/11/24 19:25:12 (permalink)
Sorry
But those 2080ti you have do so much better in PG.

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Re: Crunching numberss in BOINC 2019/11/24 19:28:59 (permalink)
bill1024
Sorry
But those 2080ti you have do so much better in PG.

Indeed They Do

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Re: Crunching numberss in BOINC 2019/11/24 19:43:20 (permalink)
Hate to say it but the 6 almost year old AMD R9 280x is 3 times faster than the 2080ti
The Radeon R9 280X was a performance graphics card by AMD, launched in October 2013

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Re: Crunching numberss in BOINC 2019/11/24 22:00:23 (permalink)
Bill Can you run some Einstein tasks with your 2080Ti please, and will see how it does vs the VII

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Re: Crunching numberss in BOINC 2019/11/25 06:14:38 (permalink)
bill1024
Bill Can you run some Einstein tasks with your 2080Ti please, and will see how it does vs the VII

Been running them all night on my GTX Cards.
1 Task Per https://einsteinathome.org/host/12616797/tasks/0/0
Some 2 Tasks Per https://einsteinathome.org/host/12765168/tasks/0/0
Running now on my RTX Cards;
https://einsteinathome.org/host/12707326/tasks/0/0
Later today
https://einsteinathome.org/host/12201097/tasks/0/0
 
Some Moo! from last night https://moowrap.net/results.php?hostid=403123
 
I notices that after upgrading to 1909 my X99 FTW it takes forever to restart or shut down. More than 4 Minutes FIXED
post edited by bcavnaugh - 2019/11/25 06:54:25

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Re: Crunching numberss in BOINC 2019/11/25 10:37:18 (permalink)
folding today on the VII
wu14276 core 21
1,777,606 ppd to 1,850,783  Goes up and down
180w in the AMD software 
 
1min 3sec a frame
 
Not too bad
53c in a 77f room on air still. Not put the water block on yet

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Re: Crunching numberss in BOINC 2019/11/25 17:04:02 (permalink)
Gravitational Wave search O2 Multi-Directional GPU seems to be the Only Einstein App that AMD will run.
AMD Radeon VII https://einsteinathome.org/host/12765168/tasks/0/54
I changed my NVIDIA Rigs to run Einstein Gravitational Wave search O2 Multi-Directional GPU as well.
RTX 2080 Ti https://einsteinathome.org/host/12707326/tasks/0/54
RTX 2080 Ti https://einsteinathome.org/host/12201097/tasks/0/54
GTX 1080 Ti https://einsteinathome.org/host/12616797/tasks/0/54 
More Info on the way.....
post edited by bcavnaugh - 2019/11/25 18:41:12

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ProDigit
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Re: Crunching numberss in BOINC 2019/11/25 20:03:43 (permalink)
bill1024
folding today on the VII
wu14276 core 21
1,777,606 ppd to 1,850,783  Goes up and down
180w in the AMD software 
 
1min 3sec a frame
 
Not too bad
53c in a 77f room on air still. Not put the water block on yet


Not bad,
Although I'm more saying it about the power consumption being lower than I thought.
Can you do something about lowering the Wattage even further?


A similar performing 2080 or 2070 Super, with a proper Overclock, is only running at 125-140W, 47-55C GPU core temps at ~75-85F ambient; open case with the stock cooling solution's fans at 100%; getting 1,3-1,7M PPD of folding performance in Linux.
Should my ambient temps drop by 10F, my GPU temps drop by about 5C, and performance increases by about ~5% due to the Nvidia driver engaging higher boost clocks.
I'm comparing it to folding, because folding at home actually taxes the GPU 100% all the time.
Boinc doesn't, and often runs my Nvidia GPUs at 25-50% load, with occasional 80-100% load; which might be a reason why they are doing so bad in Boinc.
To solve this, I shared Boinc with FAH, to assure 100% GPU utilization all the time.
Boinc and FAH seem to be fine sharing 50/50 the GPU resources, however it comes at a 40% performance drop for FAH.

Would love to see if you can drop the wattage even further down for AMD cards, and see how much the wattage readout is, to make a much closer PPD/Watt rating comparison!
There is an efficiency curve, at which for every X-Watts you reduce on the GPU, your performance drops by a Y amount.
At some point, this curve becomes too steep to be feasible (eg: where you drop 10%watts (eg: 20Watts out of 200W, or 15W out of 150W), and lose 10% performance).
Try to find the card's sweet spot;

I'm interested to see how an optimized AMD performs in Linux.
There seems to be a program called 'WattmanGTK' that can do some basic overclocking and power limiting...
 
Perhaps I'll buy a cheap AMD card soon, to test...
#59
bill1024
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Re: Crunching numberss in BOINC 2019/11/25 21:40:34 (permalink)
You say "BOINC" does not tax the system. BIONIC is the client, the projects are the software that does the work.
Some projects will put more load on a CPU and/or GPU. Primegrid LLR tasks will do 100% more so than primegrid sieve tasks.
Sometimes it does not need to be 100% to be efficient. You can run more than one task at a time to increase the load.
But running more than 1 at a time is not always good.
Look at it like this, if I run 2 tasks in less time then it takes to run 2 tasks one at a time, then do it.
If it takes longer to run 2 at a time than you can do 2 one at a time, don't do it, no matter the load. 
BOINC is more about throughput than it is about efficiency. You can cut power or mhz some if you like, most do not.
 
I can sut some more whattage off I am sure. I'll do some more testing on folding in a couple days.
I have a project run I am doing right now with that GPU. And some going to be busy with some RL issues.
 
Do not run BOINC with folding at the same time, the hit to folding is not worth it. Fold one day and do BOINC another day.
 
 
One another Einstein is not DP, it just used AMD hardware better than Nvidia, I think MOO does too if I remember right.

 Life is too short to carry a cheap pocket knife

   
 
#60
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