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Definitive guide to configuring the Ryzen 3900X

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Nec_V20
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2019/10/22 22:57:30 (permalink)
It has taken me this long to write this guide because I don't get free stuff sent to me so I had to wait until I was able to get hands on experience with this CPU and its two chiplet design.
 
So I am sorry if you have been having a bad experience trying to make sense of what "influencers" who do get free stuff have confused you with regard to the ultimately pretty simple task of configuring your system for optimal stable performance.
 
I hope this now makes up for my tardiness.
 
Today someone approached me on Discord who was confused about configuring his 3900X system and asked me to help. He knows me and was thus willing to allow me to use Teamviewer to access his system, and was willing to spend the time with me to allow me to do the job right (which took over six hours of configuring and testing).
 
First of all any and all settings in Ryzen Master under the heading "Default", "Precision Boost Overdrive" and "Auto Overclocking" are useless.
 
The other thing is that although the cooler that comes with the 3900X is actually not bad, it is however useless if you want to optimise your system because the Ryzen 3900X is very sensitive to temps and even a difference of 2° C makes a difference with regard to how high you can go with your clockspeeds
 
This is not to say that Ryzen Master is useless and it is a useful tool.
 
Forget about trying to set up your system in the BIOS because that is a total mess and you are best off just leaving most of it set to auto (unless of course Auto does something silly such as setting the BCLK above 100).
 
So here we go, and when I am done you will say, "This is obvious, how come nobody else has told me about this".
 
The very first thing to do is in Ryzen Master go to "Profile 2" (I will explain why Profile 2 further down) and set the Control Mode to "Manual".
 
After doing this, go to "Voltage Control" and set "Peak Core(s) Voltage to 1.3 Volts.
 
Next go to "Memory Control" click on "Included" and make sure that he slider is set to half of the rated value of you RAM (that is, if you have 3200 RAM you set the slider to 1600).
 
The next part is now really easy. Click on all the cores in CCD0 and CCD1 and set them to a speed and test that.
 
I started off with 3900 and worked my way up, because this was my first ever experience with a dual chiplet Ryzen CPU.
 
When you have set the value then go into Cinebench R20 and under "File" then "Preferences" set the "Minimum Test Duration" to 300 seconds. This will run through the Cinebench test multiple times.
 
Now gradually increase the clockspeed of the cores and test, until it becomes unstable and Cinebench won't complete the test run.
 
Congratulations, you have found the sweet-spot for your CPU and what is more, that clockspeed will give you a higher single core score than setting Ryzen master even to "Auto Overclock".
 
With regard to the system I was configuring today the sweet spot was at 4250 MHz for all the cores. I did manage to do a couple of single runs of Cinebench at 4300 MHz on all cores, but it was not stable over the 300 second run, even when I punted in higher voltage and the Cinebench score at 4300 was only about 100 more than the score at 4250.
 
So that was easy right?
 
But wait, there's more.
 
Remember when I said that you were to configure "Profile 2" and I would explain why? What follows will be the reason.
 
For gaming performance clockspeed is important. Most games don't use more than four cores and very few games use more than six cores.
 
So now that you have configured "Profile 2" you take those values and apply them to "Profile 1" and then the only thing that you change is under "Additional Control" you set "Simultaneous Multithreading" to "Off".
 
After you reboot you will have a straight 12 Core/12 Thread system.
 
The first thing that you will notice when you run Cinebench is that your temps will be a lot lower - and this is what we will exploit (in the system I was working with this was a difference of 10° - 13° C).
 
Now you can find the sweetspot for this configuration - in the case of the system I was working with today it was stable at an all-core speed of 4.35 GHz.
 
So now you have the best of both worlds, a 12 Core/12 Thread "Profile 1" for gaming and a 12 Core/24 Thread "Profile 2" for production work where you need the extra threads.
 
You can get even more gaming performance out of your system than this if you follow another guide I wrote which you can find here:
 
https://forums.evga.com/How-to-easily-get-more-performance-from-your-CPU-than-overclocking-without-overclocking-m2918913… 
 
If anything is unclear then please feel free to ask.
 
I will then use your feedback to update this post.
post edited by Nec_V20 - 2019/10/24 03:40:05

PSU: Seasonic Prime Titanium 650 Watt, Case: Phanteks EVOLV X, Mobo: GigaByte X570 AURUS Master, CPU: Ryzen 9 5950X, GPU: Powecolor Red Devil 6900XT, RAM: 32GB (2 x 16GB) Team Group CL16, Cooler: Arctic Liquid Freezer II 360, Boot-drive: Team Group 1TB M.2, Fans: 7 x Phanteks T30 120mm, HD: 5*WD 14TB, 2*WD Blue 2TB M.2 SSD (Games), Keyboard: DasKeyboard 4 MX-Blue, Mouse: Logitech G903, Monitor: ASUS PB287Q (2160p 60 Hz); LG 32GK850F-B (1440p 144 Hz)
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    Cool GTX
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    Re: Definitive guide to configuring the Ryzen 3900X 2019/10/23 18:35:39 (permalink)
    thanks for sharing your guide

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    Nec_V20
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    Re: Definitive guide to configuring the Ryzen 3900X 2019/10/26 17:37:51 (permalink)
    Cool GTX
    thanks for sharing your guide


    I have run the Cinebench benchmark on my testbed system, a Ryzen 3600X system with only Ryzen Master and Cinebench running:
     
    Ryzen Master Options
     
    Default:
    Cinebench Single Core 507, Voltage = 1.445 - 1.465 Volts
    Cinebench All Core 3737, Voltage = 1.39 Volts
     
    PBO:
    Cinebench Single Core 509, Voltage = 1.45 Volts
    Cinebench All Core 3733, Voltage = 1.385 Volts
     
    Auto Overclock:
    Cinebench Single Core 508, Voltage = 1.465 Volts
    Cinebench All Core 3788, Voltage = 1.425 Volts
     
    Manual Voltage
     
    To have the system reliably run the Cinebench benchmark multiple times in a row I had to use a voltage of 1.3125 Volts to hold an all core of 4.2 GHz
     
    Manual setting 4.2 GHz All-Core at 1.3125:
    Cinebench Single Core 492, Voltage = 1.3125 Volts
    Cinebench All Core 3730, Voltage = 1.3125 Volts
     
    This myth about "Higher voltage at less current" is pretty much busted in my testing for one reason - the heat that is generated. Voltage x Amps = Watts and if there were less current (Amps) then the increased voltage should not result in more heat being generated. This is just not the case.
     
    In the all core tests there is a difference of 5.5° C to 8.5°C between using the various Ryzen Master settings and running it on manual.
     
    In the single core tests there is a difference of 9°C to 10.5°C between using the various Ryzen Master settings and running those tests on manual.
     
    As you can see the added voltage didn't bring much in the way of a higher Cinebench score, be it on single core or all core.
     
    The cooler I am using is the Noctua NH-U12A. It is an excellent cooler, especially given the topology of single chiplet Ryzen 3000 series CPUs and the fan curve I have implemented ramps up quite smartly, so the increases in temps are largely mitigated by the fans accelerating to keep those rising temps in check.

    PSU: Seasonic Prime Titanium 650 Watt, Case: Phanteks EVOLV X, Mobo: GigaByte X570 AURUS Master, CPU: Ryzen 9 5950X, GPU: Powecolor Red Devil 6900XT, RAM: 32GB (2 x 16GB) Team Group CL16, Cooler: Arctic Liquid Freezer II 360, Boot-drive: Team Group 1TB M.2, Fans: 7 x Phanteks T30 120mm, HD: 5*WD 14TB, 2*WD Blue 2TB M.2 SSD (Games), Keyboard: DasKeyboard 4 MX-Blue, Mouse: Logitech G903, Monitor: ASUS PB287Q (2160p 60 Hz); LG 32GK850F-B (1440p 144 Hz)
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    Nec_V20
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    Re: Definitive guide to configuring the Ryzen 3900X 2019/10/29 06:05:57 (permalink)
    The thing is that cooling the Ryzen 3000 series is a bit of a nightmare if you are using an AIO.
     

     
    If you take a look at the topology of the Ryzen 3000 chips then, for the single chiplet CPUS (3600, 3600X, 3700X and 3800X), the business part of the AIO, that is where the heat exchanging fins are in the water block, is covering less than 25% of the hotspot with its cooling capacity, that is where the chiplet is located.
     
    This is because the AIO water block is designed to have the CPU in the middle of the PCB and not offset to a corner (you can easily imagine the finned portion of your waterblock overlayed on top of the image above).
     
    An air cooler on the other hand covers that with 50% of its cooling capacity (heatpipes).
     
    With a two chiplet CPU (3900X and 3950X) the heat exchanging fins cover less than 50% (more like 45%) of the hotspots created by the chiplets; whereas an air cooler will have 100% coverage of those two hotspots with the heatpipes.
     
    What makes matters worse is the fact that the common wisdom for applying TIM is to use the "Pea", "Grain of Rice" or "Line" sized blob in the middle of the IHS.
     
    Or of course you could use the now infamous The Verge, "Fap and jizz all over the damned thing" method - who knew you could build a computer with a Swiss Army knife that "Hopefully has a Philips screw driver".
     
    If you want to totally cringe, then here is a mirror of the original video:
     
     
    Here is a compilation of reactions to this abomination of a "Howto" video.
     
     
    I have to warn you though that you should wear an oven mitt to mitigate the damage caused by any nuclear facepalms you may experience, or padding on the desk in case you feel the urge to violently slam your head onto it.
     
    The problem with this is that it will not spread to the corners of the IHS which means that generally there will be quite a bit of the corners of the IHS which doesn't have any TIM facilitating the transfer of heat.
     
    It is for this reason that I have recommended to people to spread the TIM over the entire IHS.
     
    Excess will squidge out, but as long as your are using a good TIM (I recommend Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut or Noctua's new NT-H2) which is non-conductive and safe. Even if there is a bit too much, the expansion and contraction of the interface between the IHS and the cooler as it heats up and cools when you turn the system on or off or going from high load to low load will "pump" out the excess leaving you with a thin layer.
    post edited by Nec_V20 - 2019/10/29 12:17:19

    PSU: Seasonic Prime Titanium 650 Watt, Case: Phanteks EVOLV X, Mobo: GigaByte X570 AURUS Master, CPU: Ryzen 9 5950X, GPU: Powecolor Red Devil 6900XT, RAM: 32GB (2 x 16GB) Team Group CL16, Cooler: Arctic Liquid Freezer II 360, Boot-drive: Team Group 1TB M.2, Fans: 7 x Phanteks T30 120mm, HD: 5*WD 14TB, 2*WD Blue 2TB M.2 SSD (Games), Keyboard: DasKeyboard 4 MX-Blue, Mouse: Logitech G903, Monitor: ASUS PB287Q (2160p 60 Hz); LG 32GK850F-B (1440p 144 Hz)
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    Nec_V20
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    Re: Definitive guide to configuring the Ryzen 3900X 2019/10/31 04:01:43 (permalink)
    I have heard a lot that the temps people are experiencing with their Ryzen 3000 systems are relatively high, and I don't know whether it is my choice of motherboard, case (and the fans in it) or my choice of cooler but my temps are pretty reasonable.
     
    I have to say first that I have had two spine operations and have spinal arthritis, so I have to have to keep my environment pretty warm; therefore my ambient temperature will almost certainly be warmer than it is for most other people.
     
    A number of times when people have been around to visit, they have complained that the room is too warm for them - I point to the door and say, "You can leave any time you want".
     
    Even when I have the system running on Auto Overclocking, my temps are just over 70° C
     
    There is one, and only one, company where I would confess to being a FanBoy and that is Noctua.
     
    I bought the very first 140mm fan they brought out (which could be mounted to 120mm) about 14 years ago, and that fan is still doing its stuff, just as quietly as the day I bought it, in the computer of my friend.
     
    The company has never let me down, I have never had a fan that failed, or started to get loud.
     
    And before you say it:
     
    Noctua has opened a hotline in the US for people triggered by the colour of their fans.
     
    The number is 1-800-248 363
     
    Yes, that's 1-800-BITE-ME
     
    The case I have is the Phanteks Evolv X, I replaced all the fans in the case with seven Noctua NF-U12A PWM fans and the cooler I have is the Noctua NH-U12A (which also has two NF-U12A PWM fans on it).

    The NF-U12A is great as both a case fan and a static pressure fan and has a max RPM of 2000, what is however impressive is that they will go down to as low as just over 200 RPM before they stop entirely, which gives me a really good control of the environment inside my case.

    The fans that come with cases are generally rubbish (although the 3 140mm fans that come with the Phanteks case aren't too bad). The thing is that you need static pressure optimised fans to push air through a radiator or a cooler stack, but it is considered normal to have ordinary case fans trying to suck air through mesh which is a lot more obstructive to airflow than any radiator.

    I have seven of those fans in the case, three in the front, three in the top and one at the back of the case. The one at the back of the case can be moved and I have it moved all the way down so that it is drawing air over the back of the graphics card (I have an EVGA 1080 Ti ICX FTW3 which has a backplate that actually does act as a heatsink) and all of the fans are governed by the temp of my CPU.
     
    The fan in the middle of the top of the case is configured to run faster than the two to the left and the right and it runs at the same profile as the rear fan.
     
    All the fans are controlled by a Corsair Commander Pro which is a lot more granular than plugging the fans into the motherboard headers and also makes controlling the fans a lot more convenient (although the iCUE software does impose a bit of a hit on the performance).

    The Ryzen system I am building is still a work in progress, so I only had it in the case for testing purposes, but otherwise it is on an open air testbench. As far as temps go, I don't take a hit either in the case or outside of the case, although understandably the fans on the cooler run faster under load in the case than they do outside of the case.
     
    The three fans in the front of the case are all connected to one header and have their own profile.

    Here is a picture of my current main machine which has an Intel i7-4790K CPU which will give you an idea of what the finished Ryzen system will look like:


    The AIO is the Corsair H150i which I have not tried out yet with the Ryzen CPU.
     
    I do not want to rip this system apart to cannibalise parts other than to transfer the Harddrives.
     
    Typically this is what the front fan activity looks like for the system pictured above (Fan#1 are the three front fans):


     
    This is the temps of my i7-4790K (clocked at a modest all core OC of 4.4 GHz) system when running AIDA 64 Extreme:


     
    And these are the fan speeds running AIDA 64 Extreme:


     
    It also has to be said that I did this benchmark test on what turned out to be one of the hottest days in UK recorded history in Summer.
     
    The pump speed on the Corsair H150i is set to balanced.

    I will be getting the AMD 3950X to replace the 3600X I currently have when it comes out, and the motherboard I will have for the completed system will be the GigaByte X570 AURUS Xtreme. Currently the motherboard I am using is the GigaByte X470 Gaming 7 WiFi (Rev. 1.1).
     
    This is what it looks like on the testbench:
     

     
    I don't have any pictures of the Ryzen system in the case, because the cable management is a complete and utter shambles. Everything was just thrown into the case haphazardly and I tested it for a day. I probably will not be putting the system together until the end of December or even January (assuming that the 3950X does come out on the 19th of November). In fact, come to think about it, I think that 12:01 AM on January the first 2020 would be the ideal time to go live with the new system.
     
    Because my main system works just fine I can take my own sweet time configuring the Ryzen system to be as perfect as I can make it, before going gold.
     
    At the moment I am messing around with the RAM timings to get them as tight as possible at 3733 16-16-16-31 and as you can guess, that is a bit of a PITA with regard to getting the minor timings tightened up just right.
     
    The good news is that after tightening up the timings with the main timings being 16-16-16-16-32 at 3733 and the with the FCLK running at 1866 I have succeeded in doing multiple Cinebench R20 runs with an all core score of 3811, but the single core stays just below 500 and that was at 1.4 Volts.
     
    I am now going to see if I can maybe tickle a bit more out of it, but I don't know how stable it will be - gotta love B-Die.
    post edited by Nec_V20 - 2019/10/31 11:04:05

    PSU: Seasonic Prime Titanium 650 Watt, Case: Phanteks EVOLV X, Mobo: GigaByte X570 AURUS Master, CPU: Ryzen 9 5950X, GPU: Powecolor Red Devil 6900XT, RAM: 32GB (2 x 16GB) Team Group CL16, Cooler: Arctic Liquid Freezer II 360, Boot-drive: Team Group 1TB M.2, Fans: 7 x Phanteks T30 120mm, HD: 5*WD 14TB, 2*WD Blue 2TB M.2 SSD (Games), Keyboard: DasKeyboard 4 MX-Blue, Mouse: Logitech G903, Monitor: ASUS PB287Q (2160p 60 Hz); LG 32GK850F-B (1440p 144 Hz)
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    Re: Definitive guide to configuring the Ryzen 3900X 2019/10/31 05:12:17 (permalink)
    Love this thread lots of educate information that I actually find helpful, keep it coming man I really look forward to your progress, more Ghz if often a thing where most people tend to fall for when it comes to making a CPU faster and that is indeedly not the case.

    It's mainly by optimizing each core of your CPU to the application, simulation or gaming being used, and a CPU with 16 cores at a lower speed can beat a 8 core CPU at a very high speed just as long each and every core is accurately assigned to the application being run.

    Once this works the correct way a 2.5Ghz 16 core can crush a 5Ghz 8 core easily, just by efficiently dividing the task over all cores within the node, so people with Multiple CPU's that run at ultra low speeds can surely take great advantage of this :)


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    Nec_V20
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    Re: Definitive guide to configuring the Ryzen 3900X 2019/11/10 16:39:03 (permalink)
    Of course, I am an idiot!

    I posted a lot of pictures of different things, but the only two pictures I DIDN'T post were those of the configuration of my Ryzen 3600X and also the Cinebench results, so here they are:


    First the configuration:

     
    now the CineBench R20 results:

     
    post edited by Nec_V20 - 2019/11/10 16:43:59

    Attached Image(s)


    PSU: Seasonic Prime Titanium 650 Watt, Case: Phanteks EVOLV X, Mobo: GigaByte X570 AURUS Master, CPU: Ryzen 9 5950X, GPU: Powecolor Red Devil 6900XT, RAM: 32GB (2 x 16GB) Team Group CL16, Cooler: Arctic Liquid Freezer II 360, Boot-drive: Team Group 1TB M.2, Fans: 7 x Phanteks T30 120mm, HD: 5*WD 14TB, 2*WD Blue 2TB M.2 SSD (Games), Keyboard: DasKeyboard 4 MX-Blue, Mouse: Logitech G903, Monitor: ASUS PB287Q (2160p 60 Hz); LG 32GK850F-B (1440p 144 Hz)
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